With about three weeks before the election do you think Trump is history?

As most people know, I have a very low opinion of the colonies and the people that live there, so I think that drumpf still has a good chance of winning.

It ain’t over til the Fat Lady sings. I’m not making any predictions after last time.

There’s absolutely no way for him to win. Just like when he ran against Hillary Clinton.

I’ll give you Hillary’s cellphone number. Ask her what that lead means.’

Honestly, I think Trump will win again. It’s been a very long and negative 3.5 years.

I hope so, but I take nothing for granted.

In 2016, the polls suggested Hillary would win. This time, I’m not getting my hopes up. I will stay up late on Nov. 3rd to see which way things might be going to determine who might win.

I ain’t counting my chickens before they’re hatched.

I sure hope so, I am not sure the world can take another four years of the Don Father.

This is going to be one heck of an election. Trump is likely to be leading on election day due to the large number of Democratic mail-in votes. He is going to do everything he can to keep those votes from being counted. There has even been talk of having the Republican governors in swing states disregard the votes in their states and appoint electors on their own.

Trump has the advantage of incumbency (as I’ve pointed out, there hasn’t been a one-termer since I was an infant) plus Biden is very similar to Hillary ideologically, and if Hillary couldn’t win in 2016 I’m not sure Hillary 2.0 can win in 2020. That said, Biden is not hated the way Hillary was, many who were enthusiastic about Trump in 2016 may now be disillusioned with him, and of course, we have the unprecedented event of a global pandemic which has upended every aspect of life unlike anything anyone living has ever experienced. So I think it’s still very much up in the air.

All I can say is Democrats have the DNC establishment and Boomers to thank for giving us the least electable candidate to oppose Trump in the most winnable election in as far back as I can think of. There ought to be zero chance of losing, and yet they keep trying.

Biden and Harris are absolutely vile people running against a psychopathic and incompetent failure who has a knack for marketing himself to people not smart enough to realize that the emperor has no clothes.

I think it’s anyone’s race, and we’re all equally fucked no matter who wins because we basically have a one party state at this point.

No predictions from me. Anything could happen.

For months I’ve been saying Michigan will go to Biden, then I started to get nervous when Michael Moore was voicing it would go to Trump a couple of months ago. Now, that there was a planned kidnapping of the MI governor and planNed to attack the MI capital building, I think Michigan will go for Biden. Anyone in the fence there or planning to sit it out now maybe understands what Trump is stoking.

I have said all along Florida is a toss up, and I still think so.

@JLeslie “Florida is a toss up”

Flordia is like trying to win over the pedophile voting block: you can target them and get them to support you, but it’s going to ruin your chances with EVERYONE else.

@gorillapaws How do you mean?

Harris/Biden have this election in the bag. Relax. Don’t worry. Be happy. Socialism is on the way.

@gondwanalon That is exactly my worry – SOCIALISM!

I just find it interesting how we all live in such different realities. Leftists act like Biden is “Trump lite”, that he’s not nearly progressive enough, that the two parties are basically the same. Rightists act like Biden is Stalin and will implement a far-left economic system like this nation has never seen. They can’t both be right.

@gorillapaws @JLeslie If Trump loses Florida, he has zero chance. So Florida is in in the unique position (not unlike many other elections) of being the KEY state.

@JLeslie If you think Michigan will go to Biden because of right-wing violence, then I can see many other states going to Trump because of BLM/Antifa violence.

@Demosthenes “Leftists act like Biden is “Trump lite””

I would argue that Biden is to the RIGHT of Trump on many issues e.g. trade, war/foreign policy, austerity, helping banks/credit cards fuck the working class over, jailing black people for minor offenses, etc.

@gorillapaws Even Comrade Bernie would be better. He would have definitely won in 2016. Of course, if he had, we would probably have an uncontested Republican win this time around.

@Demosthenes I agree Biden is very similar to Hillary. However, he has the big advantage of Trump’s record to run against. As far as I am concerned, that record is sterling with just a few minor blemishes. However, my opinion is not shared by a majority of the voters.

@LostInParadise I agree with you. The large number of mail-in ballots will definitely not be counted by election night. It will be very similar to 2018, when I went to bed happy that Orange County, CA, was going to stay in Republican control. Boy, was I ever wrong!

@gondwanalon & @crazyguy – Repeatedly making claims that corporate, right-wing candidates and parties are “SOCIALISM” is embarrassing and can only be seen in one of two ways. One of those ways is considered trolling.

Declaring that Wall Street, health insurance companies, the fossil fuel industry, weapons manufacturers, and other large corporations are “SOCIALISM” makes absolutely no sense, and there is really no way to respond other than: “Are you ok?”

@SQUEEKY2 I have a feeling that we are going to be wishing soon for the Don Father.

@Demosthenes I think Biden, at his core, is fairly center. Perhaps center-left. That is what the progressives were afraid of; so they forced him to go against his better judgment and pick Kamala. My only hope is that the progressives will see the ticket for what it is, which is Obama/Biden slightly warmed over.

@crazyguy Ignore @SQUEEKY2. At least YOU live here.

@crazyguy 3 months ago I thought Biden was going to win in Michigan because of Covid. Most of my Republicans friends there are either sitting it out or voting for Bide, and they are telling their parents not to vote for Trump also. I am not sure if the prents are all convinced. I have friends who work in healthcare there, and friends who are tired of the religious right having so much control in the party, and some of my friends are religious, but they aren’t brainwashed. I think there are a lot of Michiganders like them. Plus, I would argue a lot of people who usually vote for the Democrat voted for Trump last election, so they easily can swing back. It isn’t like Cindy McCain trying to tell Republicans to not be afraid and vote for Biden, a lot of people in MI usually do vote for the Democrat. A lot of them are blue workers who have not been making a lot of money in the stock market.

For my money, the absurdity of Trump as President defies rational explanation. It is in fact so absurd that it doesn’t even matter if the fact is derived through some fluke with the electoral college. But the very fact that he made it the first time makes it pointless to predict what’s next. There are times when I actually think that perhaps my judgement of the man is too harsh or lopsided. Yet when I ask whether the man has done a single thing in his reign to alter my opinion of his aptitude or qualifications since he announced his intention to seek the office, the answer is a resounding and unequivocal NO! Trump has vindicated precisely every perception he exuded from the day he rode down that escalator. Any illusions of him somehow rising to the office have been more than rendered as preposterous as they deserve, and the only conclusion that can be drawn regarding the upcoming decision is this: if Trump’s re-election truly hinges on the merit and performance of his first term, he is most assuredly dead and buried.

OP @crazyguy I think you are being manipulated to believe that everyone hates Trump and all the cool hip folks are voting for crazy Biden. Biden is weak, frail, confused, isolated, and nobody is excited about him. Its just that some people need to vote for him in order to vote against Trump because they hate Trump. But hatred for Trump, while intense, vile, and often perverted, is not nearly as widespread as you are being led to believe. Even so, it will be close.

@Yellowdog

As has been pointed out, a million times, recognizing the man as the unmitigated fuck-up that he is does not equate to hating him.

@JLeslie ” How do you mean?”

Florida has such a bizarre set of demographics and policy priorities, that any message designed to capture them will undoubtedly turn off more electoral college votes than winning Florida would gain.

@gorillapaws Biden has been pretty clear that he is not going to socialize healthcare, and will only try to reduce the age for medicare to 60. That fits with the Florida voter who might be wary or reluctant to vote Democrat, but hates Trump. Biden will protect social security while Trump is trying to take it apart. The possible unexpected vote for him would be more Latin women I think, and if the young Latin Americans actually go and vote. If he can reach them he has a chance I think. The best would be if some Latin American surrogates go talk to the people for him. There has been some of that going on.

Hopefully, young people come out to vote.

The push for Democrats to vote has been relentless here. I am contacted every other day to vote, get my ballot, mail my ballot, etc, etc.

We have had a lot of people moving to Florida over the last 6 months, it would be interesting to know what party. I would not be surprised if some snowbirds changed their residency this year just to be able to vote in Florida. As it is we get over 300,000 new residents a year anyway, and that has not slowed down with covid from the articles I have read, in fact they implied it is picking up. Probably not all are eligible to vote, but most are I would guess. If you look at a domestic migration map it is really interesting in terms of the possibilities for changing the electoral college vote within the next ten years. I think some Southern states will get very purple if they continue with their efforts to attract businesses. Their need for economic growth will grow registered Democrats in those states I think.

@JLeslie…At the expense of the youth vote and the Rust Belt. Biden did horribly with the Latin demographic in the primary. This is 90’s era political strategy, straight out of the HRC 2016 playbook.

@Yellowdog Your critique on Biden might be right on the money but for the glaring error in that part about him being isolated. The specter of Trump no longer permits his only standing opponent the luxury of isolation from ANYONE. And believe me, it won’t be merely those who DO literally loathe the fool who will be responsible for the idiot’s defeat. In fact you and the fool should be so lucky that Trump’s fate were dependent only on those who venomously oppose him. There are those without one bit of animosity or resentment over this buffoon who would choose a circus animal in his stead gauged solely on his performance thus far as President.

I would hope the members of the EC are reasonably sane and intelligent and will vote their conscience this time. As I understand it, they do have that option.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
Every single democracy throughout history, without exception, has only lasted about 200 years before evolving into something else, whatever that might have been.
America is due for change. (Obama got that right!)
There are at least 20 different types of Socialism. There is not a limited amount of types, IMHO. And Americans are resolute and inventive! We can come up with a form of Socialism that is all our own and a form that will work, if that is the way is has to be. (We have no other choice, again, IMHO.)

@gorillapaws Do Latin Americans vote in large numbers in the primaries? I really don’t know the answer. I’m stereotyping based on Latin Americans I know, which could mean nothing.

Most Latin Americans in Florida are Republicans.

The “Latin vote“ in America means nothing when it comes to Florida. I know you know, I’m just stating it for the sake of anyone reading and my train of thought. It’s like the “Jewish vote“ and the ultra-orthodox Jews, totally different.

Or, did you mean Latin vote in Florida specifically didn’t vote for Biden?

We don’t have a huge Black vote here, but enough that if they turn out to vote more than usual it will make a difference.

I agree young people could easily not bother to vote. I didn’t vote when I was in my 20’s.

@Dutchess_III I had to look that one up. And as you may expect, there is no clear answer. The so-called faithless electors, who go against the wishes of the state’s election result, are bound, in most cases, not by the constitution, but by state laws. See https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/can-members-electoral-college-choose-who-they-vote

@kritiper Interesting idea. An American-designed socialism. Keep in mind the word implies government ownership. How far that goes, is fairly flexible, In modern China, for instance, the state exercises a degree of control over all enterprises; however, the extent of control varies not only by industry but is also different at different times. It is hard to eliminate the stench of favoritism.

@Yellowdog I am glad to see that not everybody on Fluther thinks Trump is a fuck-up. I personally think that by being unconventional, Trump has managed to accomplish a heck of a lot.

Oh, he has accomplished a lot. None of it good, but he’s accomplished it.

Crazy guy you’re right about Trump, he has totally divided your country, allinaited every ally nation the states have,started a needless trade war, cuddled up to ruthless dictators, added more than a trillion dollars to the national debt by giving fat cats a huge tax break.
Handled Covid 19 so bad it has cost the lives of over 200,000 Americans.
Mocks crippled people,calls dead war heroes losers.
Yeah he is the best.

@SQUEEKY2 The political left has tried to take out Trump every hour of every 24/7/365 cycle. It is not Trump who is being divisive. You are witnessing relentless efforts the Left has taken since they lost the election,

@stanleybmanly It is true that some will vote for Biden because they feel sorry for him—but most will vote for him merely as a vote against Trump. In any case, he is an old-school racist pre-civil-rights era democrat who has adopted a Marxist platform in order to win— and the Democrats are using this ticket to get Harris in as POTUS through the back door. No one would vote for Harris but they might for Biden.

It is fashionable to call one’s political opponent(s) stupid, but there is some intelligence here to get the Marxist / Globalists in power by doing the above.

OMG @Yellowdog !! You really believe that?
Yeah it’s the left calling dead war heroes losers, it’s the left mocking crippled people.
It’s the left fault there is over 200,000 dead from covid 19.

@Yellowdog

Frankly, you wouldn’t know Marxist if Karl Marx himself rose from his grave, showed up at your door and smacked you upside the head with a hardcover copy of The Communist Manifesto while playing a “greatest hits” CD of Richard Marx.

@hmmmmmm why do you put words in my mouth? I said nothing that you say I said.

@gondwanalon: ”@hmmmmmm why do you put words in my mouth? I said nothing that you say I said.”

@gondwanalon: “Harris/Biden have this election in the bag. Relax. Don’t worry. Be happy. Socialism is on the way.”

@crazyguy But that is just it. Socialism, as it is known in it’s many ways, is too limiting. You refer to China’s form of socialism (communism) and say it’s similar to what it could be (by your definition) for the American version, which I say wouldn’t/couldn’t be the same for Americans. That’s what would make our form so much better than the others.

@kritiper Please point to where I say that the US version of socialism (if we ever stoop to that form of government) would be similar to the Chinese version. If you cannot, please STOP putting words in my mouth.

@crazyguy: “Interesting idea. An American-designed socialism. Keep in mind the word implies government ownership.”

No, it doesn’t.

definition of socialism Look at the note after the definition. The definition of socialism has evolved and now includes social democracy as practiced in Scandinavian countries. In this wider sense, all countries have a degree of socialism. Public education is a socialistic practice.

@LostInParadise Just to expand on your point. K-12 public schools are socialism. Fire departments are socialism. Social Security is socialism. Medicare is socialism. Public libraries are socialism. Agriculture subsidies are socialism. Unemployment insurance is socialism. We already live in a mixed economy, it’s just a matter of degree.

The people I know who call themselves democratic socialists do not want a centrally planned economy and the abolition of private ownership. Most have no problem with billionaires who pay progressive taxes, but they do want the government to do a better job of providing equality of opportunity and raising the minimum standard of living to a level that allows for more bottom-up success through hard work.

I gave the wrong link to the definition

@gorillapaws Some Republicans and many libertarians would be just fine getting rid of public schools, Medicare, SS, even fire departments.

@crazyguy In a prior post, you equated what I said about an American form of socialism to China’s communism.

@kritiper I do not recall doing that. Please do a copy and paste of my post.

@JLeslie Interesting you should bring that up. Let me give you my take:

Public schools: As many people have opined on a different thread, our schools are the problem that lead to significant wealth inequality in the US. All children should have a choice in schools. If the public option cannot compete with magnet schools, they should be allowed to wither on the vine.

Medicare: You hear of many doctors turning away patients on Medicaid, but hardly ever those on Medicare. Ever wonder why?

Social Security: I kinda like receiving social security checks. However, I see the Ponzi scheme nature of the whole setup, and wouldn’t mind seeing it go away.

Fire departments: Perhaps that is going too far.

Post Office: Definitely has served its time. We do not need any paper.

@gorillapaws You make great points. We do “live in a mixed economy.” I would even agree that most Americans do not want “a centrally planned economy and the abolition of private ownership”. However, by making taxation progressive enough (Biden wants those making over $400K per year to fork over enough to pay for Medicare for All and free college including forgiveness of all college debt. Biden’s tax plan will collect an incremental $3.052 trillion over 10 years if nothing changed and only $2.65 trillion if you allow for changes in people’s behavior.

Estimated cost of just Medicare for All for 10 years is over $30 trillion – see https://www.factcheck.org/2018/08/the-cost-of-medicare-for-all/

So it is evident that more tax increases will be needed. Soon enough you’ll reach a point that we’ll begin to stifle innovation.

@crazyguy: “Biden wants those making over $400K per year to fork over enough to pay for Medicare for All”

Biden does not support M4A. This is in fact why he was chosen – to stop M4A. You know this. Why are you saying this if you know it’s not true?

@hmmmmmm ”Biden does not support M4A. This is in fact why he was chosen – to stop M4A…”

This.

If I thought there was even a small chance that Biden would try to pass M4A instead of vetoing it like he said he would, I’d probably suck-it-up and vote for him. I simply can’t bring myself to vote for such a vile, repugnant and regressive ticket, despite my utter contempt for the current president. I intend to write in Hawkins on my ballot, because VA Dems have successfully blocked him from appearing on the ballot.

The last time I was so certain he’d lose. There was no way in hell he could win….

FiveThirtyeight has Trump at odds of 1 in 7 of winning. In the last election they had him at 30%. What I am most concerned about is that Trump will try to steal the election.

Hopefully enough people closely associated with him have gone to prison, you’d hope that anyone dumb enough to help him steal the election will think twice. (He isn’t smart enough to figure out a way to do that by himself.)

@gorillapaws There is a wide chasm, gradually getting wider, between what Biden says and knows he’ll have to do.

@LostInParadise The odds will tighten.

@Dutchess_III In the US it is next to impossible to “steal” an election. However, if voting is close, questions can and will be raised about what ballots qualify and which ones don’t.

I still wonder how the electoral college voted the way they did. I would HOPE that the EC is comprised of people with above average intelligence, and that they would have seen what the majority of us recognized in the idiot. Still waiting on my copy of “Too Much and Never Enough” to arrive.

@crazyguy , It is a little late in the game for the odds to start tightening. Based on his debate performance and failure to protect himself from covid, Trump’s odds actually got worse.

If ineptitude factors at all in Trump’s electability, the fool might just as well rollover and die. With half the White House now infected through his lackadaisical regard for the pandemic, he’ll be lucky to escape the tar and feathers he so richly deserves.

@Dutchess_III I believe the Electoral College is bound by state law to vote a certain way. Intelligence of an elector is as useless as tits on a bull.

@LostInParadise I have a lot of faith in Biden’s gaffe ability.

@stanleybmanly I am almost at a point where I could not give a damn. After centuries of the same same, if you guys want more of the same, more power to you. I can play both sides of the market.

I think there is a provision that allows them to vote their conscious.

@Dutchess_III Research that point. I did.

Can you share what you found with me?

@crazyguy

Only some states have “faithless elector” laws. In every other state electors are free to cast their vote however they choose. Even in the states that do have such laws the punishments are trivial and not often enforced.

@crazyguy “There is a wide chasm, gradually getting wider, between what Biden says and knows he’ll have to do.”

Biden is going to do exactly what his donors tell him to do, just as he’s done his entire career. If you want to know what Biden will do on a particular issue, just ask yourself: “what would Exxon/fracking lobby/Anthem/Goldman Sachs/Visa/Google/Wine & Beer lobby/Northrup Grumman/Big Pharma/Big Agra/AT&T/pipeline lobby/private prison lobby/payday & auto loan lobby/etc. want Biden to do?”—That’s exactly what he’s going to do.

I’m sure he’s willing to pass symbolic legislation that’s ultimately meaningless to prove how “woke” he is, such as renaming “Columbus Day” to “Indigenous Peoples’ Day” or something like that—all while reducing opportunities for indigenous people via austerity measures to balance the budget. He’ll talk about how much black lives matter, all the while refusing to legalize marijuana, a measure that would radically reduce the number of black people being incarcerated in this country.

And Fox News will cry out how radical Biden is, and CNN will talk about how woke he is, all the while he’s being funded by exactly the same people that are funding the Republicans. It’s a smoke-screen to delude people into thinking we have a 2 parties with radically different agendas. Always follow the money. There is no better indicator for what a candidate will do in office than that.