Is Pro-Life more a Pro-Birth than anything else?
Asked by
SQUEEKY2 (
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)
October 11th, 2020
OMG! Not this old debate again, but the pro life side to me seems more pro birth than anything else.
They seem to not give a crap after the child is born, but born it must be.
The Mother in their eyes means nothing, regardless of why she got pregnant.
Now these pro birthers will scream there are charity groups that will help after the birth, or church services but that is about it.
Does it seem that way to you as well?
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It isn’t the Childs fault that the mother was raped, forgot condoms, poor circumstances, taken advantage of, drug related etc.
So perhaps sending babies to orphanages is there answer and we all know how those institutions are?
In the case of rape, do they not take the mothers feelings into account since she has to carry the child for 9 months and is a constant reminder of that rape?
I wish that both pro and con on this issue that these protestors could “feel” all the emotions,fear,doubts,mistrust that follows.
Pro-life as a term is bullshit. The right wing adopted it because it sounds good.
The pro-life movement is really “men controlling women”. And sadly a lot of women buy into this control thing.
If abortion weren’t an issue, men would do their damndest to find some other mechanism to control women.
“Pro life” is more pro population than anything else. “Pro birth” would simply be a technicality.
Pro life is really pro-government mandated forced birth under threat of jail penalty.
@SQUEEKY2 Is Pro-Life more a Pro-Birth than anything else?
It’s more pro-selytise than anything else.
Would you let someone drown a bunch of newborn kittens? Or just find them another home?
It’s not as simple as that @KNOWITALL , a human mother who was raped has to be reminded every second for nine months what a monster did to her.
Or a victim of incest ?
You can argue all day long it’s an innocent life, that once conceived must be brought into this world with out question .
Problem pro lifers seem to not give a shit once it’s here, or the mental trauma the mother had to go through to bring the demon spawn into this shit ball planet.
PLUS your answer would be better,you wouldn’t let someone drown a pregnant cat just because they didn’t want a bunch of kittens would you?
That really is a bad comparison, because kittens are cute, while human babies are hideous blobs of flesh.
@SQUEEKY2 Again, rape and incest are less than 3% of all abortions.
There are 2x more pregnancy care centers than abortion clinics.
So what does caring post birth mean to you? Is it donating time and money, is it adopting or fostering? How do you define that?
I have to admit, it sounds good as a Dem talking point but its false in every way.
The vast majority of abortions occur in the first 3 months. A 3 month old embryo is nothing like a kitten, more like a clump cells. Is it alive? Yes, but so is an amoeba.
Post birth caring is not ranting and raving about what losers single moms are, or how we should reduce benefits to lazy poor people with children. It means not putting brown children in cages.
What pregnancy care centers are you referring to? Doctor’s offices? If so, 2X is a thousand times too low.
@Dutchess_III I don’t know anyone who says the first two things, and I’m not getting in to the situational morality of the Democratic party who built the cages.
As of 2019 there were approximately 600 abortion clinics with 1100 pregnancy care centers.
As opposed to an abortion clinic, they give you a free pregnancy test, go through options such as adoption with both males and females or partnerships, and help you with resources such as cribs, diapers, housing and all kinds of things. They also provide post-decision support such as support groups. They do not perform or refer abortion clinics.
I see poor-bashing on Facebook all the time, from Republicans. And the very next post will be about how abortion is a sin. So hypocritical.
Your description sounds like Planned Parenthood, which Republicans are against, but they don’t know why.
Why does every conservative conveniently ignore what else PP does?
2017 to 2018
570,444 breast exams and pap tests.
614,361 cancer screenings and prevention procedures.
216,722 well-woman exams
2,620,867 provisions of birth control information and services
2,831 adoption referrals. (Source)
They focus on planned parenthood, and discourage “accidents.” They focus on women’s health. That’s what drive the conservatives nuts. It focuses on women, as though women were just as important as men.
Plus I’m sure that any gynecologist could perform an abortion.
@Dutchess_III I guess because we find that selling body parts from aborted babies is wrong. Apparently the DOJ thinks it’s criminal.
Dr. Furgerson signed PPMM’s contract with StemExpress to sell fetal body parts to StemExpress per specimen “determined in the clinic to be usable”, and Dr. Furgerson’s endorsement appears on a StemExpress brochure handed out at National Abortion Federation meetings advertising “fiscal[] rewards” and “financial profits” to the abortion clinics who provided fetal tissue to StemExpress. When asked if the purpose of the brochure was “to obtain more potential sources of fetal tissue,” Dr. Furgerson testified, “Yes, I understood that that’s what they were trying to do.”
The video shows StemExpress paid Planned Parenthood solely based on the number of “usable” samples that StemExpress could harvest from PPMM’s abortions, at least an extra $65 per abortion if the customer ordered a fetal organ plus a blood sample. PPMM does over 17,000 abortions a year, and unsealed invoices show PPMM making $25,000 in just 3 months from StemExpress. When asked how much money an abortion clinic could make per year from selling fetal body parts, the founder and CEO of Planned Parenthood partner Advanced Bioscience Resources, Linda Tracy, was forbidden by her lawyer to answer.
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42 U.S. Code 289g-2 broadly forbids the exchange of valuable consideration for fetal tissue. After investigating Planned Parenthood and companies like StemExpress and ABR for over a year, the Senate Judiciary Committee and the House Energy & Commerce Committee’s Select Investigative Panel made criminal referrals for Planned Parenthood and their business partners to the FBI and U.S. Department of Justice. In late 2017, the DOJ announced it had opened a federal investigation, and two southern California companies admitted guilt to selling body parts from Planned Parenthood Orange & San Bernardino Counties against the law in a $7.8 million settlement with the Orange County District Attorney.
Last week, the Small Business Administration demanded 37 Planned Parenthood affiliates return $80 million in federal relief loans they fraudulently certified they were eligible for, and 27 Senators called on Attorney General Bill Barr to broaden the DOJ investigation of the Planned Parenthood affiliates’ activities.
http://www.centerformedicalprogress.org/2020/05/planned-parenthood-testimony-on-selling-baby-parts-unsealed-new-videos-released/
@Dutchess_III Per what I posted:
Two southern California companies admitted guilt to selling body parts from Planned Parenthood Orange & San Bernardino Counties against the law.
That video was a hoax, you know.
@Dutchess_III Some are, some aren’t, I’ve seen many.
This lawsuit was certainly not a hoax. I think things like this that Dems don’t condemn as wrong, only feeds the partisan fire in regards to this subject.
Under the agreement filed Friday in Orange County Superior Court, DaVinci Biosciences and its sister company, DV Biologics, must permanently close all business operations in California and pay the $7.8 million by donating assets and biological materials to a medical school, officials said.
The companies must also pay $195,000 in civil penalties and have admitted liability in the case, prosecutors said.
“This settlement seized all profits from DV Biologics and DaVinci Biosciences, which they acquired by viewing body parts as a commodity and illegally selling fetal tissues for valuable consideration,” District Attorney Tony Rackauckas said in a statement.
https://www.ocregister.com/2017/12/08/ocda-obtains-7-8-million-settlement-against-two-orange-county-companies-accused-of-selling-fetal-tissue-for-profit/
Hey man, you a mind reader? I have said that for years. They get all (fake) concerned about a fetus, but let that fetus become a living breathing baby with real word needs, what are you some kind of moocher socialist looking for a hand out?
@jca2 I find that a little hard to believe since there are currently 2 abortion clinics within just 1 mile of my house and 17 more within 20 miles. Maybe the entire area is just an abortion Mecca.
@cheebdragon: Some areas have more than others. In the article, it talks about some areas and states where there are none, or close to none.
I just ran into this link. 62% of embryos die within a few weeks of conception, and in most cases the mother is not even aware of having been pregnant. If you believe that embryos are human then , given this extremely high rate of natural abortion, it would seem that God does not place much value on human life.
For those so pro life or Pro Birth does the woman not count at all in all this?
Just this unborn fetus that is all that matters type thing?
@SQUEEKY2 Of course the woman counts, that’s why there’s pre and post abortion counseling regardless of the decision.
I’m not sure you’re taking into consideration the botched abortions, the dead women, the sanitary requirements being adhered to like any medical facility, the medical care requirements (like perforation during abortion.)
I mean there’s a lot more to this than abortion bad, choice good.
Why do you not believe in equality for the unborn? Margaret Sanger and her eugenics were taken off PP because of the inherent racism. I guess you only care about equality post-birth right?
Do you honestly think that erasing pro-life voices in America, which is about half of America (men and women), is a smart hill to die on?
Don’t look now, but you’re defending legal abortion. ”botched abortions, the dead women, the sanitary requirements being adhered to like any medical facility, the medical care requirements (like perforation during abortion.)” Those happen in back alley abortions, not hospital abortions.
@Dutchess_III In some ways I do agree with you, because those numbers dropped below 3% post Roe V Wade, but they still do happen.
Good grief I’m happy I’m not a female. I know there are legit reasons a female would need an abortion, but I’d hate having that in my memory the rest of my life. The “what if’s” and so forth. I can’t even begin to imagine. Sheeesh…
This source says it’s much less than 3%. More like 0.7%.
And this is an interesting article. ”It is easy for Americans to forget that illegal abortion was common before the 1973 Supreme Court decisions that legalized the procedure across the nation—and that denying women access to legal abortion does not prevent them from having abortions, but just increases the likelihood that they will resort to an illegal abortion carried out under unsafe conditions.”
@Nomore_lockout That’s a whole different, very real, ball of wax. But some women have more trouble with that than others.
You are literally the only person here that I can recall ever getting into the psychological component, which I appreciate. Usually I try to keep these threads short but I actually really appreciate that you care enough about women to mention that.
In 1995 Gilchrist (66) examined psychiatric complications following abortion and found that the relative risk for self-harm among the aborting group of his study cohort was 1.7, i.e. they were 70% more likely to self-harm than the non-aborting group. Similarly, Speckhards study of 30 women post-abortion, found that 65% had suicide ideation and 31% had attempted suicide.
https://thelifeinstitute.net/learning-centre/abortion-effects/suicide-after-abortion#
Women have had abortions throughout history, even when it was illegal. When it was illegal, there was more chance of infection and death to the woman. If she became sick from the procedure, she was not likely to go to the hospital for treatment because it would have meant questions about what happened and who did it. Women had to travel to places where it was done in secret, probably like an underground network.
I’m betting that we all know older women who have had illegal abortions but just don’t talk about it. They might not admit it, but I’m betting many of our grandmothers, aunts, etc. have had illegal abortions in the middle of the last century.
You know they did @jca2. Birth control was not allowed by the church.
Mom (who was raised Catholic) got on the pill anyway. I remember playing with the spinny dial thing.
I think of laws restricting abortion as paternalistic politicians punishing naughty women for opening their legs.
I agree. But you know those paternalistic politicians would be all in favor of abortion if they got some woman who was not their wife pregnant.
”Niddah 23a, a chapter of the Babylonian Talmud and probably written in the fourth century BCE, includes commentary from the later Talmudic scholars about abortion as determining whether a woman is “unclean.” The discussion would likely have been consistent with contemporaneous secular sources permitting abortion during early pregnancy: ”[A woman] can only abort something in the shape of a stone, and that can only be described as a lump.”
@Dutchess_III: “But you know those paternalistic politicians would all be in favor of abortion if they got some woman who was not their wife pregnant.” Say, for example, Republican governor of South Carolina Mark Sanford? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sanford_extramarital_affair
No, the article doesn’t say anything about the girlfriend having an abortion, but I love to point out that Republicans love to point fingers at Dems for being depraved and immoral, but Repubs can be just as naughty.
You should google congress criminal charges. Its a crazy list on all sides, plenty from each party. Ha!
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