Anyone see a problem with the AP calling the election for Biden?

Screw it, Biden has it. Sore losers is all they are. Guess Putin was preoccupied this round.

It does seem strange that we are allowing news outlets to determine when the election is over. Shouldn’t there be a strict set of rules for determining when somebody has been elected?

Who has called it in previous years?

I was wondering why it took so long to count the last tiny percentages of votes in the battleground states, for the past few days. It seemed stuck at 253/214. I thought maybe they’ll wait till Monday morning to make the announcement, to get all their ducks in a row, and to let everyone have the weekend off.

My Repub friends on FB are all complaining about the media calling the election. They’re saying “The media doesn’t determine who won the election.”

Pa. difference is currently 0.6%, which is above the automatic recount threshold.

Biden is set for 306 electoral votes, which he’s almost certain to get when counting is over, given that the remaining votes are expected to favour Biden due to mail-in votes being counted later, and the demographics of the counties where most of the votes are left.

Trump would need to request recounts in 3 or more of the states, and successfully overturn 2 or 3 of them depending on their electoral votes.

Only Georgia is really close, and recounts typically only change the counts by no more than a few hundred votes at most.

Trump has practically no chance. The media is correct to call this for Biden.

Trump’s whining about “fraud” and denial that he’s lost, looks more like a signal to his most deluded and zealous supporters to trigger a civil war than any justifiable grievance.

@jca2 my feeling is that the remaining states could all see which way it was going but given the propensity of Trump supporters to wander about heavily armed with both their safety’s and their brains disengaged no one wanted to be the one to call it first in case it all kicked off.

The media _always_”calls”_the election. The voting doesn’t stop, the counting doesn’t stop, the protocols are still observed.

It’s not official yet, and nobody says it is. It’ll be official on January 20th. The media is simply doing its job (reporting news) by letting people know that the numbers say Biden has won. As in “there’s not enough votes for Trump, and even if he got all the remaining ones, he could not win”.

Works for me.

The media always calls it.

The election results from each state get certified by Dec 8th.

The electors vote on Dec 14th.

I think I have those dates right.

Jan 20 is Inauguration Day, and in my opinion that is not when the election becomes official, it’s when the electors vote. Jan 20 is when the new president is officially sworn in.

Edit: if a state doesn’t verify by the 8th then the Congress gets involved, I don’t remember what the procedure is if that happens.

Think about it. The media always calls the election, that’s what we’re watching on Election Night. And the media is not a monolith; I kept checking various news outlets and CNN was very cautious until it became very clear that Biden was the presumptive winner.

And yes, it won’t be official until the Electoral College meets on December 14 but beyond a doubt Biden is the winner.

I think you’re listening to too many of your Republican friends @JLeslie .

@janbb So you think we shouldn’t worry about half the country feeling comfortable that a reasonable amount of time was given to investigate or recount if the president chose to do so? Do we want unity or not? I understand at some point it should be called, but it oribably could have waited a few more days. The media gave Gore the election in 2000. Then it was Bush, then Gore conceded and then retracted his concession. Then recounts.

I see the celebrations around the country and if the Trumpers had won and were doing the same I wouldn’t feel like they gave a damn about unity.

Edit: this is not like the Gore Bush election, I understand it’s different, but I think we should consider the whole country buying into the results.

Not me.

Why not wait until Trump decides whether he was going to or not?

Because he has no say in the matter. The voters decided.

So you think we shouldn’t worry about half the country feeling comfortable that a reasonable amount of time was given to investigate or recount if the president chose to do so?

Nothing will satisfy them. They believe the Clintons murdered a score of people and Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya. Should we put the nation on hold until they are persuaded?

Although, I do miss the days when giant trained parrots flew overhead announcing the results. It seemed so much more official somehow.

It’s not as bad as the media calling the election during the election, when people are still voting, which is what they’ve done as long as I remember. That’s interfering with votes in progress, particularly when voting doesn’t take place at the same time from one side of the country to the other.

It shouldn’t affect the counting process much or at all. But it might a little bit. I too would prefer the whole process be finished completely, and done without such influence at all. However my concern about other things going on at the moment rates much much higher. And I think it may in this case be a good thing to help balance the attempts by the spoiled man-child and his fools to influence the process by lying and fear-mongering.

Nope. No problem at all.

Not even a smidge.

None. Zero. Nada.

I’m good with it.

@Zaku That’s in my thought process too, that the announcement might shut down some of the attempts to spoil the results with more lies. I doubt it will work though.

One of my Republican friends who is very reasonable and fine accepting if Biden won, she said she hoped to have Trump 4 more years, so it’s just 4 years sooner the change will happen. Even so she would like to see some of the accusations being made investigated. Some of the accusations are bullshit, and have already been thrown out of court. But, some of the responses from Democrats are ridiculous and not helping.

@JLeslie “So you think we shouldn’t worry about half the country feeling comfortable that a reasonable amount of time was given to investigate or recount if the president chose to do so?”

It’s not half the country. It’s Trump’s cultists. They’re never going to to be convinced no matter how much time you give it. You could still be counting and recounting the votes a year from now and they’ll still be screaming about it. These are the people screaming “count every vote” while at the same time crowding outside vote counting centers screaming “stop the count”. They’ve been screaming “voter fraud” for months before the election. They were screaming “voter fraud” during the election. They’ve been “screaming “voter fraud” since the election. They’ll be screaming “voter fraud” until their bodies go cold. Hell, they’re still screaming “voter fraud” four years after an election that their tangerine messiah won.

Fact is, no matter how much they wail, threaten or rant, the electoral math, the simple, basic math, does not add up in Donald Trump’s favor. Count it, recount it, count it again. Count it as many times as you’d like, the numbers just are not there. Just as, in 2016, it did not add up in Hillary Clinton’s favor.

These are the people screaming “count every vote” while at the same time crowding outside vote counting centers screaming “stop the count”.

These are people who protest with signs reading “Keep Government Hands Off My Medicare!!”

Lol. The Medicare post made me laugh.

The hardcore Trumpers will never be satisfied, but there are some moderate Republicans who we can have some understanding for and give them a moment to digest.

If they’re moderate, they aren’t upset about the results.

What @Call_Me_Jay said. Absolutely.

The moderate Republicans are probably thrilled with the unpredicted gains they made in Congress and that many of them were able to repudiate Trump while still supporting their party.

“If they’re moderate, they aren’t upset about the results.”

^^^This.

If they’re actually moderate, then I’d hope they’d see Biden as a moderate conservative, rather like them except for the (D), and so much more sane than his opponent.

I think that when the media gets into the mode of “calling the winners” it is an effort at voter suppression. While the polls are still open, they are influencing those that might vote. After the polls close, they are putting political pressure on those counting votes. If the count doesn’t match what the media called, it opens the door for all sorts of headaches. Remember the 2000 election? I was watching several channels that night and they all did the same thing. They came out and said that with some percentage of the votes already in, they were saying Gore won Florida. But at the same time they were saying it, their little ticker tape running along the bottom of the screen showed Bush ahead by 15%. The did the same thing with Michigan though it slipped through the cracks at the time. And how did that end? We had to redefine, on the fly, what defined a legitimate vote. We had to look at “chads”. A dimpled chad was considered a valid vote, though I’m not sure why. Why would any civilized country go through those gyrations? Because the media had spoken first.

I bet you didn’t complain in 2016 when the media started calling in for Trump within hours of the polls closing, did ya Wulfie?

I am confused… I understand they “called” the election much like Fox called Arizona super early….but I thought we were all pretty positive that was simply a projection. A projection that could probably to a good extent be trusted, but like….don’t we all know that’s all it is is a projection? Meaning the odds and math are strongly strongly in Biden’s favor, but of course it’s not official. Right?

Also I hope to think my parents would have beat my ass if I had been even half as sore of a loser as Trump has been. The best part is he was a sore loser before he even lost! LOL

@deni Correct. The odds and the math are there based on the votes, and the legal objections are not plausible.

I was watching the AP count and the NY Times. The AP called Arizona early Wednesday AM. The Times held back until they saw Arizona AND Pennsylvania AND Nevada go blue. At that point no single reversal could change the outcome.

Only an extraordinary unforeseen circumstance can change it now. Nobody rational is buying the baseless claims of fraud and stealing. Even dead-enders like Lindsey Graham avoid saying cheating exists. They make vague statements about “counting every legal vote”. They do not repeat the specific accusations flying around Facebook.

@Darth_Algar I didn’t care before I watched what happened in 2000. Every election after that I find it odious.

@seawulf575

Was Trump elected before 2000? Was he just too busy to take office until 17 years later?

@Darth_Algar Don’t be a fool if you can help it. You insinuated that I didn’t have a problem with the media calling the election in 2016 for Trump. You are, of course…as always…wrong. You make gross assumptions and base your smarmy answers on them. I just clarified that I stopped liking the media doing that after the 2000 election. Trump was elected in the 2016 election so that would encompass that as well. Yes, it pokes a hole in your hairbrained assumption, but that is life, isn’t it?

I have never heard one person in real life or on here complaining about the media calling the election at 4 a.m when Hillary lost in 2016.

The 2000 election wasn’t remotely analogous to the 2020 one.

The media calling it for Gore was retracted within 2 hours when it turned out the exit polls got it wrong.

The whole thing rested on the difference of a few hundred votes in Florida.

Of course, they were wrong to jump the gun, but there’s been nothing like it before or since. It also does not follow that it’s somehow wrong for projected results to be announced at all, just because it briefly went awry once in 2000.

@Kropotkin The problem with it, as I saw it, was that by “jumping the gun”, they insinuated themselves into the election process. They were telling people that Gore won so some people may have just decided not to vote since it was already decided. Then, when they retracted it 2 hours later (and it was in the evening already), the polls were either closed or were just about to close. The other problem I have with it is how they made the call. Their own evidence showed what they were saying to be false, yet they came to that conclusion and broadcast it. How was that determination made? Who made it? It obviously wasn’t the same people putting up the results on the ticker tape.
And all these same questions and problems still exist when the media decides to call a vote. The only possible difference is that the voting was over in some of the battle ground states when they made it. But then, there were challenges in play so calling it is irresponsible. Now if the challenges bear fruit and the decision goes in favor of Trump, all they did was stir in division into society by making a claim they will later have to retract.

@seawulf575 It’s not really a problem in the vast majority of cases.

I’m not sure what you think they should do instead. Not declare any winner at all until there’s a concession speech?

@Kropotkin How about this? How about just report the facts. If a state is reporting numbers, give the numbers as they come in. But don’t declare a winner when only 1% of the vote has come in, which is what they do. And in this current election, there are legal challenges. No winner has been officially declared. Yet it doesn’t stop the media from declaring one. Based on what? Are they clairvoyant? If they were an honest media (which they aren’t…at least the vast majority aren’t) they could talk about the legal challenges. Give the facts. It’s called journalism, not entertainment.

@seawulf575

No sure what you were watching, but no one was declaring a winner with only 1% reporting in.

@seawulf575 They declared a winner when Biden crossed 270 electoral votes, not at 1%.

Of course, if you want to be really pedantic, he hasn’t “won” until the Electoral College formalises the results in December. Is that how long you suggest the media wait before declaring a winner? Do we just do away with the concept of ‘President-elect’, even when the results obviously imply that a candidate has won?

Mere legal challenge isn’t a justification to postpone the declaration of a winner either. The obvious objection I can think of is it that it sets a precedent for abuse. Let’s say there’s a bad loser, who declines to concede when he’s obviously lost, but will delay the announcement of an “official winner” through vexatious and spurious “legal challenges”. Imagine that happening?!

@Darth You must’ve been asleep at 2:30 a.m. on Wednesday when trump was on Twitter claiming victory. <eye roll>

@seawulf575: ”If they were an honest media (which they aren’t…at least the vast majority aren’t) they could talk about the legal challenges.” Not sure where you have been these past few days, but the media I watch on TV (very mainstream NBC, CBS), has been reporting legal challenges.

Also, it’s not just the media that is talking about Biden winning. Haven’t you heard there are many Republican politicians who are saying it’s time for him to admit defeat?

@Kropotkin Yes, let’s be pedantic. After all, the concept of “President-elect” means you have actually won and the EC has confirmed it and there are no challenges. You are President-elect until you are sworn in. And so Biden is NOT the president elect. Since no winner was officially declared (because of those pesky legal challenges that keep them from doing so) he can’t be.

Reports on CNN that Jared and Melanie are urging trump to concede

@seawulf575 LOL. I think you’ll find he has been declared the winner. Biden is set for at least 290 electoral votes, and that makes him the winner.

There have been no legal challenges. There’s been a lot of frivolous and vexatious bullshit based on hearsay that’s got absolutely nowhere. All because Trump is a dumb fucking baby and can’t take the loss like every losing Presidential candidate before him.

When there’s actual credible legal proceedings, you might have some sort of point.

There isn’t any, because there’s nothing substatiated or credible.

There’s only the desperate mewling of a dumb loser President, the rantings of fanatical far-right evangelicals, and the fevered hysteria of Qanon conspiracists and assorted MAGA zealots, who have all bought into the fantasy that they really won the election.

@chyna: I bet Melania can’t wait to go back to Manhattan, to the Trump Tower apartment, and start divorce proceedings. She probably has her bags packed already and is like “I’m outta this shit-hole.”

@jca2 I saw an interview with Michael Cohen where he says Melania is just like them. He said she doesn’t care about anyone else. Made it sound like that Mafia mentality. I had a boyfriend who used to say people outside of the family are “nobodies, we don’t know them.” I remember being shocked by that statement.

I don’t know for sure what Melania thinks. She might see staying with Trump as a big risk and just divorce him to distance herself, who knows.

No. AP are open and honest about how they call elections and you can use your own judgement as to if you accept it or not. I realize that assumes you have a certain level intelligence….