Can Biden control covid-19 without a shutdown?

I think some cities might be in partial shut down. Maybe more rules about travel.

America is huge. Shutting down the whole country is like shutting down all of Europe. I don’t see it happening. Plus, many Americans won’t comply. It will be too dangerous. The only way to really get it under control quickly is for Trump to do more drastic measures. He has two months to do it. The problem is we are heading into holiday season, so I fully expect for the cases to explode and stories about killing relatives because they wanted to be together for Thanksgiving.

Where are the cases out of control where people were complying well with masks?

At 100,000 new infections daily, any thought of bringing the disease under control is further self deception. It’s the sort of thinking that allowed the virus to proliferate from the beginning and indicative of just how obtuse this society is overall. The fact that we lead the world in deaths is shameful but consistent with the current fad around the rejection of science to accommodate selfish near term comforts. From the outset, all of us knew what is required to limit this disease. This is the same syndrome we see with the argument over global warming. And the attitude of such dummies as our President perfectly illustrate why we are doomed in both instances. At this stage, there is no choice in looking at the matter without reverting to feelings of disgust at the ineptitude of those designated as leaders and contempt for the indifferent sheep destined for infection and death.

@JLeslie France, Germany, Czech Republic, Poland. They have all tightened mask regulations after the spikes, but most people wore masks even before the spikes.

See
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/10/24/covid-19-spike-in-europe-leads-to-resurrecting-restrictions/?sh=413b0b466e9f

No.

There is no way. I work in a restaurant and that is eye opening right now to say the least. I spend all day touching peoples used napkins, old food, condiments their kids put their fingers in or mouths on, etc etc…it’s disgusting and it really concerns me. Now that the weather is turning, outside dining is less and less of an option.

I also am finishing a 14-day quarantine today as my roommate tested positive for Covid two weeks ago. This is only going to keep happening if we think we can go out to restaurants, gyms, grocery stores whenever we please, sporting events, TRUMP RALLIES LOL, etc…know what I mean? I’m pretty much mortified to go out in public now even for necessary reasons, because I really cannot afford another two weeks off work. I also watch the kids in the school across from my house (my guess is that they are between the ages of 7 and 11?) play outside for recess every day without masks on. Then I think about returning to work, and these same children are running through the restaurant unmasked and licking their fingers and touching things. We do our best, but nothing can prevent those things from happening.

The only time numbers were even semi under control at least where I live, was when EVERYTHING was shut down. I just don’t see any way around that, and I didn’t sign up to be a front line worker when I decided to bartend because it afforded me a lifestyle where I can travel and take time off, lol.

@deni I think I saw a report some place that dining out is the single worst thing to do as far as catching covid goes. Indoors versus outdoors did not seem to matter much, as I remember (I will look for the report, but am not sure if I’ll find it).

I think there are two reasons.

1. Everybody lets his/her guard down, when dining or drinking.
2. You just cannot wear a mask between bites (or sips).
3. Social distancing is impossible to achieve between the server and the diner/bar patron.

I feel your pain, I hope you will stay healthy.

Nope, because people won’t obey the simple rules,wear a mask when in public,social distance,and wash your hands every chance you get.
And you get the argument masks don’t work,well on their own they do not but used with the other 2 rules they definitely help cut down the spread of this little shit of a virus.

I think England went back to no indoor eating. I’m not sure. Maybe they just reduced it way down.

WE never had a full shut down here in BC,just Bars,resturants , and fitness centers.
Now it’s spiking again and those establishments have to be shut down once again.

CT just rolled back restaurant hours to 9:30 for dine in. Hair salons are closed in CT.

My hairdresser (NY) just was diagnosed with covid so the whole salon closed for two weeks, as a precaution, not mandated.

@jca2 I guess one good thing is I would feel pretty safe around the hair dresser for the next 6 months at least.

@JLeslie However, there may be other customers.

@crazyguy Yes of course, but the hairdresser basically stands over you a foot away for 30 minutes.

She can still move the virus. Touch something with covid and then touch the hand mirror, give the customer the mirror, customer touches their eyes. Boom. Covid.

When a vaccine was approved for Polio, there was a National Vaccination Day when everybody was expected to get one, and most did. I remember both an oral liquid and a needle type.

As I mentioned in a previous link, Covid will just drop off the radar. It will stop being reported every hour. It will stop being a scare tactic. After all, the entire media approach was to blame Trump. Since Biden can’t do anything Trump didn’t do, they don’t want to keep putting out the scare tactics or all the data that Biden will then have to address. And when a vaccine comes out in the next month or so, you can bet they will try crediting Biden with it. Of course that makes no sense since he had nothing to do with it, but you can see for yourself when it happens. That is, unless Trump wins his legal challenges to the validity of the election results and is actually re-elected. Then they will redouble their coverage of Covid.

238,000 dead is news @seawulf575 it is not all anti-Trump!

In your case it is Trump can do no wrong; so all the dead are “It is what it is!”

@Tropical_Willie Mark my words. Shoot, CNN has already pulled down their Covid board that has been up 24/7 for the past umteenth months. It will fade from view if Biden is finally declared the winner of the election.

@seawulf575 Call CNN up and tell them they stopped reporting COVID-19 !

. . . COVID-19 numbers November 9, 2020 from CNN! !

@YARNLADY When was that, do you recall?

@seawulf575 lt amazes me how you manage to parrot the fool in underplaying this disease since it’s arrival. Anyone with any sense must admit that the virus is now raging out of control. And under the leadership of Mr. Trump we are destined to lead the world in grim unnecessary deaths.

I was twelve years old, so 1954

All, let’s get real for just a minute. The number of new Covid-19 cases has been rising for a while. However, the predictions of hospitalizations for the next four weeks are all over the map – see
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/hospitalizations-forecasts.html

Depending on the model used, the number of new hospitalizations for the last week of November ranges from a low of 2,600 per day to a high of 13,000 per day.

7 day rolling deaths per day have increased in the world as a whole by 66% between May 16 and Nov 9. In the US 7 day deaths per day have gone down by 37%.

I’ll let you judge for yourselves how big a crisis covid-19 is any more. Fairly soon, I expect the media to start focusing on the good news, since Biden can do no wrong.

People are dying and you @crazyguy. . . . are quibbling about “bull-shit” !!
You should stay healthy or go to the bar or gym and get COVID-19 !

So, @seawulf575: One in 40 Californians has tested positive for covid-19. One in 400 Americans tested positive in the past week. Do you want to offer any update to your statements above that “Covid will just drop off the radar” after November 4th and “It will fade from view if Biden is finally declared the winner of the election”?

I predict that unless drastic measures are put in place in the US after Christmas it will be so far out of control it will take a couple of years to maybe get a handle on it regardless of any vaccine that comes down the pike.

@Jeruba Only one thing…the date of dropping off the radar will be Jan 20th. But Biden hasn’t officially won the election yet. Right now it is doom and gloom until he takes office. After that, it is likely Covid will drop back from 22 hrs/day coverage to about 30 min/day.

Baloney! It wouldn’t matter if God himself were President. Massive death tolls and overwhelmed hospitals are going to dominate the news for the coming year. You won’t have to worry about a Biden shutdown. For those authorities who lack the sense to shut things down, the disease itself will FORCE the issue, and do so in a fashion so grim that even our more stupid Americans must get the message. I find it ironic that our fool of a President for all of his defects was only defeated because he low balled this disease.

@stanleybmanly You just are in denial, aren’t you? Here’s the problem with your view of reality: it assumes the media is fair. If Covid-19 doesn’t disappear from the news media, that means Biden will have to do something about it. As long as it isn’t stressed 24/7, it will disappear from people’s minds. Remember the illegal immigration during Obama’s term? It was going up and up every month. Then it hit about 11 million in the country and that number never changed again throughout the next 6 years of his time in office. The illegal aliens didn’t stop coming into the country, they just stopped reporting it to the people so they could downplay the fears of the people as being unfounded. It’ll be the same with Covid for Biden…If he wins the election.

@seawulf575: How could Covid “disappear from people’s minds” when the schools are closing or are already closed and people are getting sick right and left?

Ya got to remember @jca2 this was created to make Trump look bad and lose the election.
What gets me was how the whole planet got behind it, and I guess telling people they have to die just to make Trump look bad, that must have been tough .

It’s apparently a giant conspiracy, @SQUEEKY2!

@jca2 B I G G G L E Y!

@seawulf575 Rather than me being in denial, let’s have look at your grasp on reality. And let us begin with your ridiculous assertion that the media has somehow manufactured this disease. It’s nonsense like this which earns you the ridicule you so richly cultivate here. You are claiming that this pandemic is fake news, when CLEARLY everyone HERE can witness its devastating effects. Which once again leads me to ask, where is it can you possibly be living? You’re the twin of our fool in your obtuse denial of this disease and you have been since its outset, mirroring that blockhead’s predictions word for word, and being wrong EVERY TIME. The media will continue to cover this disease because thanks to the fool and idiots much like yourself this pandemic is devastating the country like nothing we’ve seen.

The problem @stanleybmanly Is that with that kind of denial and ignorance a lot more people are going to end up dead,but heaven forbid you can’t do a shut down because people will end up killing themselves because they can’t go to work and pay their debts.
This herd mentality that the fright wing has is scary shit.

@seawulf575, are you treating covid coverage as equivalent to covid infection? Media coverage could stop right now. That wouldn’t stop the spread of the disease. Don’t tell me you, of all people, think media reports are the same as the reality—?

It’s also absurd to treat hospitalizations as a stat because when they’re full they’re full. The disease doesn’t stop and wait for beds to be freed up.

So far we’re not really doing much better here than medieval Europe did during the Black Death. Until we collectively get beyond a Dark Ages mindset of demons and black magic, we’re not going to get on top of it.

So curious to me that Trump wails about “witch hunts” when he’s the one calling for purges and witch burnings and awarding his acolytes magical red talismans (that they have to pay for) for warding off evil.

@Jeruba No, I’m not treating covid coverage as covid infection. The infections will go on, but will not be talked about anywhere near as much. Biden campaigned on taking control of the pandemic. His plan was to do everything Trump has already done. In other words, he’s got nothing. But the media will not only NOT hold him accountable, they will stop reporting on it so it isn’t even discussed anymore.

@stanleybmanly Let me ask: when did I ever say the media manufactured the disease? Tell you what, when you can find that quote and show me, you will have some credibility. Because the alternative is that you just created something that doesn’t exist as a “fact” to base the rest of your rant on. that shows a weakening grasp on reality.

So you’re not concerned about the disease, only the coverage? Man, that’s Trumpism, pure and simple.

@Jeruba The question is whether Biden can control Covid-19 without a shutdown. My answers have been consistent throughout. As I just challenged @stanleybmanly When have I ever said I am not concerned about the disease? Please show me the quote where I said that. I have disagreed with policies and have doubts that we can do anything we haven’t already tried to battle it, but that isn’t the same as not caring about it. But what I AM saying is that Biden and the media don’t care about the disease…only the appearance of how it is impacting us.

@seawulf575, I think maybe you don’t understand that you have to all appearances allied yourself with a certain position or point of view. To the extent that you identify with and defend that position, its views are going to be associated with you and even ascribed to you, whether or not anyone goes back and combs through your postings to locate a particular quote. (I, for one, don’t intend to sift through and read dozens of your old posts just to make a point. Once was enough and sometimes too much.)

I understand that this generalization of a view to its supposed adherents can be wrong and even seriously grating. I hate it when somebody says “Atheists do this” or “Atheists believe that” and then attribute those beliefs to me. They aren’t describing me, even though I appear to fit into the named class.

So let’s be clear: Are you distancing yourself from the view that covid-19 is a media-created hoax? Do you acknowledge that it’s real—and out of control—and that extreme measures are needed to turn back the tide?

Tell me: do you wear a mask? You, not your avatar.

I don’t believe Biden can contain it at all. But I do believe he can take measures that mitigate the spread and save lives. He won’t make news by denying it.

@Jeruba Take a look at what @stanleybmanly and yourself just did. You both ascribed a position or point of view to me that I have never subscribed to. In other words, you guys made it up. To blame me for your fantasies or lack of reading comprehension and then to try copping out by saying you don’t want to take the time to defend you statement makes you look desperate.

And, @Jeruba You are asking further questions that I HAVE answered in previous threads…you know…supporting a position or point of view? How is it that you are positive of one thing (so positive you don’t have to support it) but can’t seem to remember any of the others…things we have had many, many more talks about?

Did you even read what I wrote?

Never mind. I suppose you knew what I was going to say without reading it, because that’s what they always say, those guys who are against you.

Did I read what you wrote? I used your own words in my answer. Are you really that desperate?

If it comes to a shut down @seawulf575 then what?
It may be needed to get this pandemic somewhat under control.
Biden is putting a task force for C19 high ranking health professionals that will advise him on the proper steps,not puppets that agree with every thing he says.and if it comes to a shut down ,it comes to a shut down.
You can hold your head and scream the sky is falling,like everytime you did when Obama did anything.

@SQUEEKY2 I’m not sure Biden would have the power to shut everything down. I suspect that would have to be done on a state by state basis. And if he DID shut everything down, I would say it was an idiotic move, for a number of reasons. It assumes all areas are impacted the same, which isn’t remotely accurate. I also merely postpones the inevitable. So what happened the first time we shut things down? We got the curve flattened, we got the cases going down, and then they started to slowly open things up again. And what happened? the cases started going up again. I said from the very start that there is a spectrum of actions that can be done with shut everything down and lock everyone in their homes…no trips to the store or the doctor or the pharmacy…until the pandemic ends around the world. At the other end is the “do nothing and let it run its course” actions. Any action taken, short of the first, will eventually impact society the same as the last. The only difference is how much damage it does in the process. Remember, we have seen huge increases in alcoholism, Drug abuse, domestic abuse, depression, drug overdoses and suicide due to the economic impacts from shutting down. This isn’t going to change. And the impact will be far more reaching than a couple weeks. Some people may take years to recover, if they recover at all.
To take an action that was already taken and has been proven not to work and expect a different result is folly, not to mention insanity.

If you remember Florida didn’t shut down,Remember Spring break all those kids in the sun then returning to their corners of the country.
I haven’t heard a single thing on any news station about huge uptick in drug use or alcohol abuse.and again have nothing about domestic abuse as well.
NOT SAYING it isn’t happening but I don’t think at the rate you described.
NO BODY wants a lock down, but if the idiot public can’t do simple things like wear a mask and social distance while in public then guess what just a matter of time before lockdowns are going to happen,if nothing than to ease the strain on the health care system.

@seawulf575 Clearly your position is that media coverage of the disease is exaggerated and only so extensive because it assists Biden and torpedoes the fool. This from a pandemic in which cases have DOUBLED in the last 2 weeks. There is no bigger story, and the BEST thing the media can do is keep the facts of the disease in front of those such as yourself, and I guarantee you that the media will be focused on this disease in the midst of Trump’s many trials and legal ensnarements.

Several people on my Facebook today saying that now that Biden is president and covid cases are up the media isn’t covering it, the media only wants to blame Trump.

Seriously?! This is why there is no point in arguing with people. It’s impossible. Totally ridiculous statement that is completely false in multiple ways.

@seawulf575 So wait, I might have missed it, do you wear a mask or not? Why don’t you understand that your whole identity doesn’t get destroyed if you just separate covid from politics? You can change your mind and no one will think now you are a Democrat. No one will think now you are a Socialist. I don’t even mean jellies, I mean even your best friends in real life who support Trump, they won’t disown you if you have one point you differ on. Cognitive Dissonance is at work keeping people like you in line.

@SQUEEKY2 Florida did shut down! WTH? Just too late. Spring Break did do damage and then we opened around Memorial Day, another mess.

When Florida first opened restaurants were 25% still no hair cuts and no manicures allowed, but people were crowded inside restaurants and bars not following the rules. It was terrible and so we shut down bars against for inside business.

Southeast counties had curfews and mask mandates and many businesses closed before the rest of the state, because southeast FL had a lot of cases early. People maybe don’t know because many of the mayors are Republicans.

Ron DeSantis has always worn a mask once it was recommended in his press conferences when he is not the one speaking or very distances, but usually he masks up since April. Republicans in my state think the same as you, that DeSantis doesn’t wear a mask and gives permission for people to ignore medical advice, but that’s because they don’t watch local news, don’t watch him when he gives a press conference, they just watch Fox or MSNBC or only listen to other people who think no order means the governor doesn’t think masks will help and in turn think DeSantis also thinks it’s a Democrat hoax, they just project their own assumptions onto him.

Here is where @seawulf575 is correct, the left and right media does have a slant in their reporting and that is why people continue to believe Florida has been wide open the whole time.

DeSantis should have done a state mask order for indoors, I do fault him for not doing it, but he has never stopped a county from doing it. Many of the Trump people who don’t wear a mask will follow an order. The order means they can complain, say they don’t agree to their friends, and still comply. I want him to do one at minimum for new arrivals into the state if he won’t impose a quarantine.

Why @seawulf575 if “His plan was to do everything Trump has already done. In other words, he’s got nothing.” WHY did most of Trumps campaign rallies turn into “Super Spreader Events” ? ? None from Biden’s events !

Why did the White House members and the staff have so many COVID-19 cases ? None with Biden or people associated with his campaign !

You really don’t deal well with reality and facts.

@Tropical_Willie Why did Trumps rallies turn into “super spreaders” and not Bidens? Because no one showed up to Bidens. Plain and simple. But here’s a question for you…why did the media go crazy about Trump’s rallies as being “super spreaders” but were silent about the many protests and riots done by the left?

@JLeslie sigh Okay…one more time folks! We’ve been over this same ground repeatedly but obviously, despite @Jeruba‘s claim that I have constantly supported a position or point of view, no one really understands my point of view or position.
Masks: Yes, I wear a mask because I have to. When I don’t have to, I don’t. I find them useless and potentially adding to our problems since I have followed the science. I do keep social distancing from others.
As for the rest of your snide comments, I am not the one having a problem separating covid from politics. That would be the politicians and the media…just like they do with every problem.

@stanleybmanly You seem to have a hard time believing the media is biased and propagandist. Okay, let me ask some very simple questions…ones even you can answer. We have had all sorts of coverage about Covid for the past year. You are right that it is an important issue. And in all that time, the media has been very good at blaming Trump for all the problems. So the whole time they were doing this, when did they attack Pelosi for telling San Franciscans to go to China town for the Chinese New Year celebrations? When did they attack DeBlasio for telling New Yorkers to go to the theaters and out to dinner and all the other things they have always done…in March? When did they go after Cuomo for ordering Covid patients into nursing homes…an act which directly attributed to thousands of deaths? The media has repeatedly said Trump did nothing and they praised Biden’s plan for dealing with it. Biden made his plan very plain…he would limit travel from other countries, he would get private industry to start making things to battle Covid, and he would get a vaccine out. Which of those didn’t Trump do? Yet when Trump did them, he was given no credit at all and was, in fact, attacked for his actions (in the case of the travel ban in January).
Please…go ahead…thrill us all with your dodging.

Despite your long list of failures on the part of the many personalities listed, there remain 2 facts beyond dispute which You consistently ignore in your analysis. The first one is that none of those listed is President of the United States. You make the claim that the press is biased and propagandist, in its coverage, and you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. The President of the United States is going to get more coverage than all of those others on your list combined. And when Biden is in place, it will be his turn to receive all the attention. But it is that other fact which you conveniently ignore in your analysis which renders you delusional. And that put simply is that YOU cannot distinguish consistently bad news from propaganda. You completely ignore the fact that Trump DRIVES the news. He INSISTS on the negative coverage. He REFUSES to shut up. There is never a moment to focus on the failures of others, because the fool simply will not permit it. Like yourself, he refuses to acknowledge the significance of the disease, openly LIES about the extent of the suffering and devastation, and worst of all flaunts his title as the world’s worst example for leadership in a time of crisis. Of course the press is going to report it when the fool announces that people should swallow bleach or that the worst is over as infections and deaths continue to double. The news around Trump and the pandemic is BAD. THAT is neither bias or propaganda. It is in fact the truth, nothing more or less.

@seawulf575: Where do you live? Are masks a mandate in your area?

@seawulf575

“Why did Trumps rallies turn into “super spreaders” and not Bidens? Because no one showed up to Bidens. Plain and simple. But here’s a question for you…why did the media go crazy about Trump’s rallies as being “super spreaders” but were silent about the many protests and riots done by the left?”

And your point is . . . Trump wanted to spread COVID-19 because that is all your answer shows, media coverage is not what I was talking about. Once again deflect and circular logic.

Oh, your hero lost the Presidential race

Today I saw online that Trump Coronavirus advisor Scott Atlas advised Michigan residents to “rise up” against Coronavirus restrictions. Will the lunacy ever end?

I just saw a MO doctor begging the governor and the people of the state to do something to stop the spread of covid.

@seawulf575 Ok, got it. You follow rules and laws.

That’s why we need a mask order. I personally wish we didn’t need an order, but that’s why we do.

@JLeslie: It’s unfortunate that the doubters will say the doctor was a paid person from the Democrats or the Deep State or something, and it’s all a hoax.

Yup. Anything to to keep their view of the world intact.

If anyone is curious. These are the state orders for covid. It’s slightly misleading, but a good overview. I say slightly misleading, because my state doesn’t have a mask order, but some of our counties do, and many of our chain retailers across the state have mask rules in their stores. You’ll notice both Republican and Democratic run states are tightening up rules if cases are surging. Open your eyes about that. It’s not just the Democrats. Find out the details. The only way to avoid restrictions is to govern yourself well.

https://news.ballotpedia.org/tag/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR2cRaBvtThy7yY6gV3JG7rx-l-tqZQpftVxNbKfiU8l0M0RV9CTbQSdKXA

@stanleybmanly Aahhh…you are nothing if not predictable. You entirely dodged the point of what I had said which is that the media is completely biased and will not say anything negative about a Democrat. I just gave you 3 perfect examples. And you tried dodging the point. Let me help. Do you remember what the media coverage on these things was? Nothing. No negatives at all, even though you, yourself, just said they were failures. So why no negative coverage? The answer from all the leftist, propagandist media is that “it is Trump’s Fault”. Cuomo sentences thousands of elderly to death with his mandate…it’s Trump’s fault. DeBlasio tells NYC to go on as if nothing is wrong and the virus spreads like wildfire…and it’s Trump’s fault. At no time will they EVER say anything was a Democrat’s fault and that especially means Biden and/or Harris. 3 years from now when the country is a complete mess and we’ve lost a couple hundred thousand more citizens, the press will still be saying it is Trump’s fault.

@seawulf575 Trump could have done more to keep the virus out. He could have ramped up PPE production in February. If we had kept the virus out we could have sold the PPE or eventually used it up over time. He did recommend closing retail stores, he did stop some flights, he did quarantine a ship, but his administration was inadequate still. He knew Europe was infected and we were receiving a ton of flights from Europe.

Trump could have told QAnon they are crazy discouraging masks and any people listening to them are being foolish. THAT would have been a big help.

Democrats have complimented Republican governors who took early action. Biden today complimented the governor of ND for putting in a mask order.

Democrats are critical about how DeBlasio delayed closing schools and that covid patients were being returned to nursing homes.

I just found out about another super spreader where I live. A social group that drinks and parties all the time. I heard 29 sick. I know some of them are big Trump fans, I wouldn’t be surprised if it started at the rally like the other superspreader I know of in my town.

How about everyone look at the hits and the misses regardless of party and mask up?

@JLeslie I understand you hate Trump. I get it. But open your eyes to reality. Trump stopped flights from China in January. What was the reaction from the Dems and the media? They branded him a racist and a xenophobe. Biden was right in line with this thinking. He was against all travel bans, even saying it wouldn’t stop anything.
Trump did ramp up production of PPE, getting the private sector to change over to the needs of the country. He got zero credit for that, even though Biden gets accolades for saying he wants to do the same thing…an action that has already been done.
You seem to think that Trump could have done the PPE thing back in February. You are forgetting that not only have the Dems absolutely refused to support anything he wanted to do and have actively fought against it, but they had just gotten through their bogus impeachment. Where was their concern back in December, or January, or even February for the Coronavirus? They were too busy hating Trump and trying to sell that hate to America. But let’s stop for a moment and think about what you are saying about PPE. We had plentiful PPE for more than 6 months of 2020. We have it now. And how has that helped us? You honestly believe getting more out in February would have made a whit of difference?
QAnon seems to be a big deal to you. You seem to believe there is this great underground adherence to whatever they say or do. I had to look them up to see who they are supposed to be. To believe that there are tons of people out there that are secretly listening and obeying everything they say is foolish…far below your standards.
You say the Dems are critical of DeBlasio dealying school closings and that covid patients were being returned to nursing homes. Who? Who was critical? Certainly not the leftist media. Not a single one of the big “news” outlets has been critical at all of any Democrat. When DeBlasio was telling people in NYC to go on with their lives and not be afraid of this virus, that was in March. Washington state had just declared a state of emergency because of the Covid virus, and DeBlasio is telling people to go to shows and movies, out to restaurants and bars, have parties. And not a single big news outlet ever called him on it. It was Cuomo who put the covid patients in the nursing homes resulting in thousands of previously uninfected people (in the highest risk group) being killed. The media’s response? “Gov Cuomo says it was Trump’s fault as he was following their orders”
You seem to have bought into the propagandized version of reality. You might want to actually dig into the back stories of many of these things. Make a timeline. See who was doing and saying what at what time on that line.

@seawulf575 Give me a break. I actually gave Trump credit in my statement for some of the things he did. You WANT to think I hate Trump and that I can’t see straight.

Do you have a lot of Democrat friends connected to NY? I am telling you people were screaming for DeBlasio to close schools. Democrats, New Yorkers, even talking heads on TV, the union, teachers talking about a mass sick out. Here’s a clip from CNN in March. I picked CNN especially for you. I kept telling my friends don’t send your kids to school. You only know what you are fed by your right wing.

The Republicans are being influenced by Q and similar groups whether they know it or not. I do have a friend who is Q, but then I have other friends who just repeat Q messaging and don’t even realize where it originates. All the anti-mask garbage about it making people sick, children will be unidentifiable, reduces your oxygen, if you have faith you will be alright, riseup, bad math in the memes, that is all Q and other alt-right groups getting in on the trolling fun.

I criticize left bias media all the time, I argue with liberal jellies, and you know it. You seem unable to criticize anything the Republicans, Trump, or any right winger does.

I can’t deal with the blindness on any of the extremes, just forget it.

One thing you have to do @seawulf575 is stop saying well Trump put that Travel ban from China on,here is a news flash IT DID NOT WORK!
Trump was also on your beloved FOX talking to his buddy Sean Hannity saying heck this C19 is like the flu some people will have mild symptoms and could even just keep working,YEAH??? and keep infecting everyone around them.
What else has you god done to keep your citizens safe from this virus?

@JLeslie In reference to QAnon, here’s a thought for you: Some of what you think starts with them, doesn’t. The anti-mask garbage about it making people sick, for instance. I have posted (in other threads) multiple scientific studies that have shown masks to be useless and some of those actually put forth the idea and the mechanisms for how they can actually help spread the contagions. Those were verified, published, scientific studies…not QAnon ideas. And the funny thing, when I posted those studies, I was being accused of not following the science about masks. And when those got posted, everyone that was saying I wasn’t following the science suddenly started changing to “well, they are saying we should wear them” or “Don’t you care about anyone else enough to wear a mask!?!” or some other such nonsense…all very non-scientific. Many of the other things you attribute to QAnon are likewise traceable to other starts. The faith statement goes back thousands of years. There are some religions that believe God can heal you no matter what and they don’t want doctors involved. QAnon has not been around that long, from what I can gather.

@SQUEEKY2 I understand you hate Trump as well. But look at what is being said:Trump did not take any actions. But he did. And they are some of the same actions that Biden is now saying we need to take. Travel bans is one of them. So why is it good when Biden says it but bad when Trump did it? I understand it didn’t do what he was hoping, but it was something. Meanwhile, you and every other leftist fool in the world was calling him a racist and a xenophobe and an idiot for taking that action. So which was it? Should he have taken the action which you don’t like or do nothing, which you say he did and don’t like? What exactly SHOULD he have done…what would the left have accepted?

What should have been done is a total world lock down for 2 weeks, drastic yup but we wouldn’t be where we are right now, home delivery for food and drugs, and those people in full haz mat suits.
NO ONE out in public other than your own back yard.
All companies have to have a 2 week paid sick leave .
Also Biden isn’t going to call his health experts stupid because they don’t sing they he wants them to.
And Trump has in place now a Radiologist and an extreme right wing one at that, that is a is a virus expert?
Biden isn’t telling people heck if you have light symptoms you can just go to work.
Biden is trying to mandate mask wearing in public Trump says they don’t work.
Biden will LISTEN to his experts not just tell them what to say, see the difference ?

@seawulf575 Let’s be clear, I think Trump uses the the extreme groups to achieve power. Those groups reach many average Republicans.

I’ve said it before, I saw Trump in an interview back when Bush ran against Kerri. I wish I could find that interview online. Trump said basically that the Republicans campaign better. He said look what that swift boat did, they convinced Republicans Kerry doesn’t respect or care about our vets and Bush is a vet, when the truth is Kerry served and Bush dodged the draft.

All the Republican “base” needs is for someone they like to attach an idea to God and country and they will believe or do almost anything. Social media means a friend is delivering information, the friend is sharing the information. People we trust who we believe have similar values.

Now, we have the more extreme parts of the Democrats using a similar playbook, because they see it works, they realized the Republicans won’t stop doing it.

Edit: Charles Koch supposedly voiced some regrets. https://www.businessinsider.com/charles-koch-partisanship-mistake-boy-did-we-screw-up-wsj-2020-11?fbclid=IwAR1g9QavBOcJLpZ1v9zH3y9qTr_XYQnNkD1MLPrzX7cMUNo8qZ0ytQ0yWCc

@SQUEEKY2 Trump didn’t have the power to do a total world lock down. What should Trump have done. You didn’t like him doing the travel ban, getting industries to start making necessary equipment to help battle the virus, streamlining the efforts to get a vaccine, getting the task force going early on, etc, etc, etc. What should he have done. So far you done really good at criticizing, but haven’t actually come up with what he should have done.

@seawulf575 What he should have done was let his experts educate the public to how serious this virus is.

@JLeslie I am often accused of being part of Trump’s base. I don’t have social networking other than possibly this site. I don’t do Twitter, Facebook, etc. That might explain why I don’t know who QAnon is or what they supposedly say. Yet amazingly, thinking for myself, I find a lot of things going on that seem sketchy to me. I make decisions for myself. I research things on my own, not trusting to the opinions-passed-as-facts from most “news” outlets. So if I am supposedly part of Trump’s base, your statement is false. The part I find amazing is that many who oppose Trump seem to do nothing but parrot what CNN or MSNBC or some other leftist outlet has said, but can’t really articulate why it is. And worse, they don’t want to understand facts involving whatever the topic of discussion is at the moment. Take our friend @SQUEEKY2 here as a perfect example. He has spouted many, many things that he heard on TV, but really can’t explain his position. When challenged, he will just spew more rhetoric he doesn’t understand. Why is that? What is it about facts that are so scary?

@SQUEEKY2 He did that. Ever notice how many updates he was doing, day after day, week after week. His task force was on TV for about 6 hours a day. Fauci spoke often. Birks spoke often. Many experts spoke often. In fact, the one that spoke the least in all of these was Trump himself. And when he did speak, it was usually as an overview…used to introduce the next expert. So he did that. That you don’t want to give him credit for it means the issue is you and the ones that brainwash you…not Trump. To make things worse, the media would take snippets and try making them look like Trump was an idiot. Take the “injecting disinfectants” as a perfect example. That came from one of the updates. He was talking about something one of the “experts” had floated and said he was interested in it, that he thought it might have some benefits and ought to be looked into. The media immediately twisted that to say he was telling people to drink or inject Clorox.
But he did exactly what you said he should do. What else?

Well whatever the truth of the matter might be, the one good thing to be said for the pandemic and the fool’s reaction to it, is that the scourge did the trick in sweeping his flabby ass out of office.

And Wulfie how come so many Hospital hot lines were over whelmed the few days following that from people asking if it was ok to ingest bleach?

@SQUEEKY2 If anybody ingested bleach based on Trump’s question to Dr Birx, that person deserves whatever s/he got! Trump could have easily retained the Presidency by changing just a few lines in his public utterances. BUT he does not have a political bone in his body.

In a way it is good. He will be a shoo-in in 2024 after Harris fucks up the whole country after she takes over from Biden in late 2021 or early 2022.

All, we should admit that the science on covid has been shaky from Day One. Initially, The WHO was convinced by the dishonest Chinese that there was no H2H; then they were convinced there was little or no airborne transmission. They were also convinced that travel bans were wrong. On June 8, Dr Kerkhove of the WHO made a statement that transmission by asymptomatic patients was ‘very rare’.

All the time, the Democrat PUNDITS were yelling: “Just wear a fucking mask!” as if that was the ultimate panacea. If that were the case, why did we have any shutdown?

Now that cases are spiraling out of control, what do we do? We go back to the old remedies: lockdowns, curfews, closures at 10 pm (as if the virus really gets active after 10 pm!),. Why don’t we just admit that, just like the rest of the world where Trump has little or no influence, we are fucked until the vaccine or a good therapeutic comes out. That is the fact Trump realized a few months ago; to his credit he has not said that in so many words, otherwise he would catch a lot more shit than he did already!

It’s wear a mask and social distance!
But NO, people had to party and be close to others that were not in their bubble now we pay for it,people do not want to be away from their families during holidays, and you guys have Thanksgiving followed by Christmas ,but by the time those spikes hit you will be blaming Biden full tilt for it.
The only weapon we have to fight this virus right now is wear a mask in public and social distance , and only socialize with your own household .
But you wont and Hospitals are now getting over whelmed and health professionals are now having to choose who to treat and who gets sent home to die, but heaven forbid don’t do the simple stuff like wear a mask and social distance ,well a lot more people are going to die that what you want?

@crazyguy I find it offensive that you think Harris will fuck up the country so bad people will welcome Trump back, what a hateful thing to say, not to mention racist .

@crazyguy We had a shutdown because Trump said probably retailers should close and we were not masked up, because the experts were afraid of healthcare workers running out of PPE. There were a lot of things that could have been done better. The US has not been 100% compliant with masks ever during this whole thing. Some states are better than others.

We can argue for weeks over Trump’s management of the disease to no effect. The one thing certain is that public perception of his mishandling of the crisis was sufficient to cost him his Presidency. Obama took office in the midst of the worst downturn since the depression. Now Biden steps into the Presidency to confront a runaway pandemic which is clearly out of control. He has the advantage on Trump in having the good fortune to be in power to see the arrival of the vaccine, and a full 4 years for the disease to run its course and the memories of our short attention span electorate to dissipate. The wonder of it all is in the fact that despite his spectacular panoply of glaring defects, the fool would almost certainly have been re-elected were it not for the arrival of this catastrophe so close to this election. That in itself is a depressing realization to counter any celebration of his departure. Let’s all wish him a swift and sincere goodbye.

@SQUEEKY2 “I find it offensive that you think Harris will fuck up the country so bad people will welcome Trump back, what a hateful thing to say, not to mention racist .” Please explain how that is racist. I don’t see race involved anywhere in there. Please, explain your accusation.

@SQUEEKY2 I’m also still waiting for your response to what else Trump should have done. So far, he has done everything you thought he should. He has done everything Biden campaigned on for actions he would take. So what has Trump failed on? @stanleybmanly Please, you are vocal on this so fill us in. What should Trump have done that he didn’t already do to battle the disease?

@seawulf575 It’s racist maybe because she is a black woman.

Now Trump should have encouraged all state governors to have a strict 2 week lock down.
Trump should have made more relief funds available for the average working Joe so they wouldn’t feel the need to go to work when sick
.
NOT keep calling it a Democratic hoax.
Do you think replacing a top virus expert with a radiologist was a good move?
Encourage mask use ,and social distancing.
That enough although knowing you probably not.

@SQUEEKY2 Racism is when you assume someone is somehow lesser than you because of their race. Disagreeing with the stated policies of a person is not race related. The only racism being shown in this entire thing is on you since all you can see is race. Shoot, by your ideas, if a black guy raped and killed your wife right in front of you, if you dared to identify him as the culprit, you would be a racist. Because he’s a black guy.

Do you not get dizzy from all your stupid spin on everything that isn’t Trump ,or Republican?^

And @seawulf575 That was beyond a dumb example of racist ,it wouldn’t be racist you are simply identifying a suspect in a crime has nothing to do with race or colour.

and @SQUEEKY2

Trump encouraged all the governors to take the recommendations from his task force. Every Democratic governor and mayor refused to do so because “it would give Trump a win”.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-3/

As for masks and social distancing:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12006548/donald-trump-coronavirus-face-masks-lone-ranger/

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/email-face-masks-supporters-pandemic/2020/08/03/id/980388/
Trump did urge the use of masks and social distancing.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/

Trump did not call the virus a Democratic Hoax, though by saying he did, you are buying into the Democratic hoax.

And finally, additional funds for John Q. Public doesn’t come from Trump. It comes from Congress. Talk to the obstinate Dems that wanted to put a ton of useless pork into a bill that was supposed to do exactly what you wanted. But it wasn’t Trump’s fault.

So what else? So far, you have a lot of disinformation and false assumptions you are working from.

You are a sad little man,I am out.

I’m the sad little man? I’m the one giving facts. Why does that make me a sad little man? Or is that answer just a way of saying you got nothing and can’t support the leftist garbage anymore?

@seawulf575 Why don’t so many Trump supporters accept Trump’s new advice and wear masks?

@seawulf575 To begin with, even the most rabid advocate for the fool must admit that the disease cost Trump the election. If we cannot agree on that one, we should drop the discussion. I’ve noticed that you share some disturbing traits mirroring the fool’s attitude and train of thought regarding the virus.

Trump’s primary failing and greatest error was in trying to pass this disease off as “no big deal.” Just as you presently insist, on the day he leaves office, with infections and death rates climbing exponentially, he will still be insisting the media responsible for excessive coverage of this pandemic. He, himself has said that he recognized the seriousness of the threat, but decided to play it down to avoid panic. In other words: HE LIED either about recognizing the threat or HE LIED to the public about the severity and consequences of the disease. Either way, he granted the brain dead half of the country (prone to self advertising their impairment through donning the red hats) permission to follow his example. They effectively united in mass to demonstrate that they either were stupid enough to believe the fool or stupid enough to lie to themselves. In either case, we now have the actuality of the Darwin awards playing out in front of us, with even the maga heads furious over the lopsided figures on Republican notables overcome by the virus. Their latest response: the disproportionate infection rates are but another in the list of conspiracies against them. STUPID!

I don’t know but the guy in this video sure looks like Trump calling it a Hoax.
https://youtu.be/bgbd9_jlALk

Thanks @SQUEEKY 2. That will go a long way toward eliminating the weaseling awaiting us.

@seawulf575: If Trump were constantly telling the public to wear a mask, it would help. If Trump were publicly advising governors of all states to encourage their residents to wear masks, it would help. If Trump were telling attendees at his rallies to wear masks, it would help. If Trump were wearing masks himself when out in public, it would help, by leading by example.

@SQUEEKY2 In response to your post:

” It’s wear a mask and social distance!
But NO, people had to party and be close to others that were not in their bubble now we pay for it,people do not want to be away from their families during holidays, and you guys have Thanksgiving followed by Christmas ,but by the time those spikes hit you will be blaming Biden full tilt for it.

The only weapon we have to fight this virus right now is wear a mask in public and social distance , and only socialize with your own household .
But you wont and Hospitals are now getting over whelmed and health professionals are now having to choose who to treat and who gets sent home to die, but heaven forbid don’t do the simple stuff like wear a mask and social distance ,well a lot more people are going to die that what you want?”
Who is “you guys”? And do you mean “wear a mask and social distance” like Newsom?

@SQUEEKY2 In response to your post:

” I find it offensive that you think Harris will fuck up the country so bad people will welcome Trump back, what a hateful thing to say, not to mention racist .” I have several comments:

1. Why is it hateful to say that Harris will fuck up the country when many posters here (including you) have been saying for months that Trump is fucking up the country?

2. How can an opinion on qualifications (in this case lack of qualifications) of a potential VP be considered racist?

@seawulf575 Thanks for jumping in. I need all the help I can get in this mad house!

@SQUEEKY2 You said: “It’s racist maybe because she is a black woman.” She is half-black, and not an African American. Her mother was Indian, just like me. Calling her stupid does not make me a racist. Is she capable of fucking up the US? You will see!

@SQUEEKY2 You said: “That was beyond a dumb example of racist ,it wouldn’t be racist you are simply identifying a suspect in a crime has nothing to do with race or colour.” Have you heard of Chief Angela Greene of Portsmouth, Virginia? She was the boss of a detective who investigated crimes, identified suspects, went to a magistrate and obtained arrest warrants before arresting 17 people. Unfortunately one of the arrestees was president pro tempore of the state Senate. The charges were dropped and Angela Greene was subsequently fired. Icing on the cake: Angela is black.

@seawulf575 When Trump tried to come up with a national policy, the thing mainstream media is clamoring for now, he was shot down by a 100-gun firing squad!

@JLeslie Yes indeed. Wear your fucking mask, and everything will be okay.

@jca2 Wearing a mask is the PC thing to do. Whether it helps or not. By the way, did you see Biden push his mask aside for a little cough? I wonder what he does for a hard sneeze!

You know I will never change your mind on your beloved hero, nothing he does or says will change your mind he is your beloved hero.
He fires a top virus expert and brings in a radiologist who knows little more about viruses than your butcher and you fright wingers think it’s great.
You actually believe there was mass voter fraud even though NO evidence, and all court cases are failing.
Heck you are still confused about why the push for mail in voting even though it’s a huge safety issue in the middle of a huge pandemic,YOU said masks don’t work, and you still can’t see why so many wanted to vote by mail.
Now remember those states have been voting by mail for years with no issue but this time all of a sudden you believe there fraudulent.
If your hero had won there wouldn’t have been anything said .
I am not going to change your mind, but guess what you are not going to change mine either.

Now for your question Biden might have to get the states to a partial shut down until vaccines get rolled out because it might be his only choice.
Like restaurants, bars, gyms, night clubs, any place where people will gather in groups larger than 10.
I know that freaks you fright wingers out because you’re convinced people will start killing themselves if they can’t go to work,but we will see.

@SQUEEKY2 I think Trump knew well before you and me that we were all going to be fucked without the vaccine. So he focused all of the administration’ energies and funds on development of several vaccine candidates. Fortunately, two of them seem to be showing efficacy and safety. Even countries that went through complete lockdowns, like Spain and Italy, are experiencing massive spikes. Of course, it is all Trump’s fault!

As far as voting fraud goes, how can anybody gather any evidence without access to the actual ballots?

So let’s see. If Biden does shut the country down until vaccines get rolled out, we probably won’t have any place to go to after the lockdown ends. Because they will all be permanently closed.

It’s only Trump’s fault because he didn’t educate his trumpanzies the importance of wearing a mask and social distancing .
Heck here in Canada we are experiencing a second wave or spike if ya want to call it because people were getting careless ,now here we go again,but no one up here is bitching about masks just the fact they have to stay within their own household bubble, they don’t want any visitors outside your own bubble until this is back under control.

@crazyguy so like most Rep/cons you’re telling me Business and money is far more important than human life,got it.

@JLeslie To start with, it isn’t new advice. He has been supporting masks for a long time. The media won’t tell you that, but if you go back to look you can find it. Secondly, I think many people (not just Trump supporters) are tired of masks. Plain and simple. Even when people wear masks, they often don’t wear them correctly (nose sticking out for example). Then there are people like me that have looked up the scientific studies that all say masks are pretty useless and may actually spread the disease. I will still wear a mask when I must, but often choose not to when it is not required, opting instead to keep a distance from others.

@SQUEEKY2 If you look at the video you posted, sure it looks like he called the virus a hoax. But it has, of course, been edited to look like that. If you notice, what they showed was just Trump saying “This is their new hoax”. It cuts in after the part where he leads in with what “this” is. He was talking about how the Dems had tried hoax after hoax throughout his administration (Russia collusion, Ukraine quid pro quo, etc) and how their big thing now is how his administration is handling the Covid virus. THAT is their new hoax. Stop buying into the leftist media propaganda!

@stanleybmanly The fact he didn’t come out yelling and screaming and talking about how the sky is falling, to you, means he didn’t take it seriously? Please. You watch too much propaganda.

@jca2 Trump formed the task force that was putting forth the desire to wear masks. He was often criticized for not wearing a mask when on the stage with others. But think about this for a moment. He and all those around him are tested several times a day. Anyone wanting to get near him have to be tested. What point does the mask have at that point? It is supposed to help ensure you don’t spread it to others. But if you have been tested and shown to be infected, what good does it do? It doesn’t stop the propagandists from trying to paint him in a bad light. Let’s think back to when he did get the virus and was released back to the WH. He appeared on the balcony to address the people. The media went crazy. “Look! He STILL won’t wear a mask!!!!” He is standing on a balcony with no one within 50’ of him. ????. Who’s he going to spread it to? Stop buying into the propaganda.
As for his rallies, you know he has people handing out masks at the door, right? If that doesn’t suggest the need to wear them, what does?

@crazyguy Yes, you are welcome. As to the national policy, I believe their attack was that he was trying to be a dictator, overstepping his power.

@SQUEEKY2 See? In Canada it’s all Trudeau’s fault!!! You are having another resurgence so it has to be his fault. He’s just useless and an idiot! Isn’t that your reasoning?

@seawulf575 YOU asked what the fool should have done differently, but ignore my answer. Read my answer again, then tell me why kicking and screaming is what you think it means TO TELL THE TRUTH.

@seawulf575 I have said for many months Trump was fine with masks. I don’t know who you think you are talking to? I said since probably April that I’m pissed off at the media for dwelling on Trump not wearing a mask at press conferences, because when asked he said he’s not wearing one because he was tested and distanced.

When he did his rally here the information regarding the tickets advised people to wear masks. About 75% of people attending didn’t wear masks.

WHY? Why don’t they wear masks? Trump is advising wear masks. Trump asked people to wear masks at his rally in writing.

It’s because the influence of Q and anti-vaxxers, and foreign entities wanting to divide and hurt America is stronger than Trump. Trump knows it and uses it, that’s where he makes his mistake in regards to protecting our nation, but on a personal level it gets him votes.

@JLeslie What it tells me is that Trump supporters tend to be free thinkers. They do not necessarily believe whatever bullshit the media is trying to feed them. They think for themselves.

Masks are useful in preventing the spread to others who are close by. They filter out a fraction of the aerosol that is present indoors. Now let us look at the guidance. Wear masks indoors. Even if you practice social distancing. Since everybody else indoors is at least 6 feet away from you, you cannot directly infect him whether you are wearing a mask or not. The smaller particles in your breathing make it out through the mask and are circulated until they form an aerosol which lingers for hours. The others in the same space wearing masks get a tiny fraction of the virus, and some sensitive souls succumb to that.

Found out today a friend has covid. Her husband was doing renovation work and the owner was not wearing a mask in her house while he was there. The owner came down with symptoms and got tested. A few days later my friend and her husband became symptomatic.

I don’t know why I even bother trying to debate anything with a Rep/con everything they post is stone hard facts (slanted their way), everything we post is edited propaganda.
@seawulf575 I know I could never change your mind on Trump even though he is facing several charges once out of office.
But know you will never change our mind on your beloved hero.

@JLeslie “Why don’t so many Trump supporters accept Trump’s new advice and wear masks?” Maybe I misunderstood your statement, but that looks like you view his advice as being new.

@SQUEEKY2 I’m not sure why you try debating anything either. You are only taking what the leftist media has told you and assumed it is rock solid, untainted fact. I am trying to show you that is far from the truth. Pretty much all your ideas about Trump are based on the slanted views of the leftist media. And even with the video you provided you should be able to see that. They cut into the discussion after the intro to his statement. All they did was take a statement out of context and applied whatever meaning to it they wanted.
Everything you have presented so far, I have shown you what the truth of the statements were, how you have been duped with lies. I’m hoping you will open your mind enough to do your own research on these things rather than just going on sheep-like.

@seawulf575 Nope. He’s been saying he doesn’t wear a mask because he’s distanced and tested since April. That to me is not a statement against masks.

He did however want his rally in Florida full of unmasked people, which is outrageous.

Talking out of both sides of his mouth back then. Not something new.

But @JLeslie you have to remember @seawulf575 provides facts that are the whole truth, well as long as it suits the right wing agenda, and we are supposed to accept those fact with out question,when we post a fact he dismisses it as left wing propaganda.
And also remember the left are the ones full of violence and hate, the problem every time I hear the Don Father talking unless it is someone worshiping the ground he walks on sounds like hate from every news channel showing it left or right.

@SQUEEKY2 I find it interesting that you want to try attacking my “facts” with snide remarks. Yet I provide citations with my statements which you promptly try to ignore. You have yet to address the information in any of them. Meanwhile, you have provided one citation and it was of a doctored video. Here…once again I will provide the full facts…that part of the story you leftist media is lying about: https://www.c-span.org/video/?469663-1/president-trump-campaign-event-north-charleston-south-carolina If you start at about 6:40 and go to about 8:00 you will see what was cut out of the video you provided…the one the leftist media edited to change the meaning. So which of us is dealing in facts?

Can anyone??

All of us are nearing burnout from pandemic restrictions, but public health should always come before politics.
Shutdowns/lockdowns/quarantines are tools every responsible official should consider in deciding how to respond. Thankfully new vaccines are proving some new options.

You’re damned right I fault Trump for not announcing the sky is falling. The sky IS falling, just as I told you it would back in February. And as I have consistently insisted, you STILL do not understand and to the present day woefully underestimate what we are up against. In this you remain a carbon copy of your fool. For example, you insist that we will lose an additional 200, 000 more souls in coming year under Biden and Harris. BULLSHIT !!!! The death toll, even while vaccines are being distributed will DOUBLE to beyond 500 thousand before Trump leaves office. There are epidemiologists who were well aware of this in MARCH when YOU were insisting the disease would disappear from the news after the elections. If the United States enters the second year of Biden’s term with a covid death toll below a million people, he will deserve the Nobel prize. Let’s revisit this issue in a year (if we make it), but I have not a doubt that I am right (and never have). You wanna know why?

@JLoon As an engineer/designer for most of my working career, I became fairly adept at cost/benefit studies. My observation is that the Democrats have lost their perspective, I think on purpose. They have made saving lives the be-all and the end-all of all actions. In reality, you have to evaluate the costs of people losing their jobs, businesses losing their leases and equipment, and the side effects of extended lockdowns; alongside lost lives. Even a car designer knows that his.her design is not as safe as it could be. In fact every design could be made safer, if cost were no problem. Unfortunately, in the real world, cost is an issue.

@crazyguy – Yeah I hear you, but you need to know I think virtually every aspect of partisan American politics sucks.

And so far I don’t see anyone volunteering to let politicians run a cost-benefit analysis on keeping them alive.

True Rep/con form , human life vs $cost$.
so who sets the cost? is it personal wealth, or job status ?
So the almighty dollar is everything.
So what is the cost of 315,000 dead?

Democrats have lost their perspective? Let’s get something straight regarding the United States and the proper way it should be regarded. There is only one conclusion that matters in this respect. If you want to understand and predict developments in the United States you need only adopt the view that this country is in fact an amusement park for the cognitively impaired. It is a theme park, and the theme is stupidity. Once this basic axiom is appreciated, everything from Trump through Covid jumps sharply into focus. Any engineer observing the way this country ACTUALLY works then tells you that cost/benefit analysis is somehow in any way at the service of our political imperatives is so far out of touch, that it defies rational explanation. In point of fact , ACTUAL regard and application of the concept has been so eroded since the 60s that any reference to it as a fundamental of this place is beyond laughable.

@JLoon That would be an easy analysis, LOL.

@SQUEEKY2 “human life vs $cost$”. Get used to it. It is done all the time. You want examples?

Design of the Ford Pinto. Self-igniting Tesla batteries. End-of-life care for a person who unfortunately has to rely on relatives to pay for it.

How about planes at 2 billion dollars a copy to “defend” an accelerating population of homeless, sick and addicted impoverished folks too ignorant to contemplate the shame of it all.?

@JLoon I have to agree that partisan politics in America suck. But the part that isn’t being really looked at is the short term and long term damage being done by focusing solely on Covid. Suicides, alcoholism, drug abuse, domestic abuse, crime…every bad thing in our country is going up significantly. And all these things impact millions of people and will impact them for a long time. But there is not a discussion about that. It is solely being looked at as “Covid bad. Covid will kill you. Have to take actions to control spread of Covid” Everything else is thrown to the wayside.
And getting covid-19 isn’t an automatic death sentence. Our media and political leaders are stressing the spread of the disease like it is killing all the people that get it. In reality, the death rate due to this disease has gone way down. Very few (relatively) people that get it are dying these days. But that isn’t being discussed either.

So what’s the answer?
Herd immunity? Even your beloved Sweden backed away from that one.
But the US is doing something very wrong when it comes to this virus I mean you have 4% of the worlds population and 25% of all the covid cases.
Maybe because your beloved Republicans can find over a trillion dollars to give big corporations tax breaks,but can’t seem to find the money to help the average joe through these tough times?
Oh I know what you will do blame the democrats.

@SQUEEKY2 You are sooo predictable, man. As far as I know Sweden is not doing anything different now from what it has been doing all along. Their death rate which was extremely high in the beginning has come down, although it is still high. Like Trump, they have been second-guessed and third-guessed; they have also done it to themselves, something Trump never did outwardly. However, all you want from the dire situation is that the US should throw money at the problem; that, unfortunately, is the standard Democrat solution whether it works or not.

@crazyguy so where is @SQUEEKY2 wrong ? ?

@crazyguy you are
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so predictable !

I think the there are actually 2 answers that could be taken with Covid-19. The first is the vaccines which are coming out. You know…the vaccines that President Trump helped to streamline into being? The ones that the left swore they would never take because Trump was associated with them? The other is to just let it run its course. Yes, there will be an enormous number of cases and probably a lot of people will die. But in the end, isn’t that what’s happening anyway with all the shutdowns and masks and all the other Bravo Sulu we have been putting up with?

Sources “You know…the vaccines that President Trump helped to streamline into being?” They are available internationally and Trump is cutting back on vaccines being available Pfizer says there is no slow down in the supply chain. . . maybe Trump wants a cut of the money ?

You 2 certainly have a sinister outlook on life. And it would be difficult to suggest an approach to this plague better guaranteed to maximize casualties than Wulfie’s assertion that we allow the disease to simply “run its course.” And his excuse for trying to sneak so preposterous an asinine and criminal stupidity past us— “that’s what’s happening anyway” If ever there was a Trump like approach to this, Wulfie has nailed it., and that is EXACTLY why the entire White House and entire conservative movement is now a virtual hotbed of infection and death. We can argue these things to no end, but stupidity reliably yields the inevitable proof, and you conservative dummies are dying like flies. I have only one real problem with your blatant stupidity, and that is that you will carry the rest of us with you. “Yes, there will be an enormous number of cases and probably a lot of people will die” Think about that for a second. A “lot” of people? One million? 10 million? I grow ever more convinced that the 2 of you are here to plant absurdities in the heads of our lamest citizens, ideas all of which are nearly transparent in their facility for maximizing damage to this land of lucky and gullible idiots. You do your jobs well. The idiocy you preach falls on fertile ground elsewhere, why waste time on the people here at fluther? Do you really believe you can convince us to ignore this pandemic and pretend life is “normal”?

I have to respond although the guy I am responding to is on my shit list. The sheer verbosity of his response inspires me. However, when I look underneath the verbosity, I find as usual, nothing at all. His response is written to @seawulf575‘s great answer to my question. Just to recap: My question was _Can Biden control Covid-19 without a shutdown?” to which @seawulf575 provided an apropos answer stating that there are
only two ways to control covid-19. One is by vaccines, and the other is what is being done now. Whatever we say about lockdowns, they are not helping one iota.

In response Mr Word goes off into a typical rant full of big words and no substance. During his rant he gets confused on facts – he states that the “entire conservative movement is now a virtual hotbed of infection and death”. Here is a CNN story that he might read in order to get some facts (I hate to put CNN and ‘facts’ in the same sentence, but once in a while CNN produces good writing):

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/18/us/california-covid-surge-alarming-rise/index.html

Of course, Mr Word will not read the article, because he is too busy expostulating to read anything. So, anticipating that, let me do a copy and paste for his benefit:

The Covid-19 numbers statewide do not reflect a scenario where more conservative parts of California are failing while liberal parts are thriving, albeit according to state figures some of the hardest struck counties per capita reside in Republican US House districts.

‘Essential’ workers get exposed every single day, and some of them succumb. A real lockdown like the one done in Wuhan is hard to comprehend in this country. So we are left with the two solutions that @seawulf575 described.

Here are some big words for you. Thanks to people listening to the advice you 2 saboteurs dispense with relish, the basic and CLEARLY evident answer is that thanks to Trump and weasels like yourself , neither Biden or ANYONE else is going to bring this pandemic under control. THAT’s a fact!

And by the way, I read your article. CNN again, but let’s ignore that for a moment to tell you that “Mr. Word is in hiding, has been tested 4 times and remains covid free. Anyone paying attention to either of you clowns is worthy of EXACTLY what both you and I expect. The 2 of you bark such incessant stupidity that neither of you should be taken seriously on anything you have to say. OF COURSE you MUST shut down the economy. Just HOW stupid must you be not to understand that as surely as YOU are an agent of disinformation, IF YOU DON’T SHUT DOWN THE ECONOMY, THE DISEASE WILL DO IT FOR YOU with immeasurably more casualties and disruptions. By the way, how is this playing out in YOUR country?

And so what if California conservatives aren’t as stupid as those in the White House. What does THAT prove? You really should just continue to try to ignore me, as I guarantee that I will continue to ridicule and disparage you 2 dummies as long as you have the insufferable cheek to appear here.