Why is Covid19 so bad in the states?
Asked by
SQUEEKY2 (
23425
)
November 22nd, 2020
The States is number one for infections and deaths, why?
They have 4% of the world’s population and over 25% of the world’s covid cases.
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104 Answers
Because our president is an idiot and Americans are too freaking hung up on their “rights.”
“Nobody tells ME what to do!”
So it’s a combination of Government and people to why it’s so bad?^
Don’t you keep asking the same question in different forms @SQUEEKY2 ??
You should see what I just posted on facebook. Crowded car show here where I live, I only found one mask being used. I will put it in the tide pool for you.
Mr. Tim’s Neighborhood – Can you say, “Conspiracy”?
@janbb If I am it is because it scares the crap out of me, and the US is so close to Canada.
As much as I think America has been miserable at controlling covid, the comparison of the US to other countries regarding us being in the “top spot” is unfair. The number is total cases and America has over 330,000,000 people while most other western countries have a much smaller population. It’s not really apples to apples.
I have thought of that as well @JLeslie ,lets just compair Canada to you guys ,the US has 10 times the population as Canada .
and we have 10,000 deaths ok times that by 10 and we still are not close to you guys.
@JLeslie Not true. Singapore is a city state with 5.7 million people and the second densest sovreign state in the world (next to Monoco). They have had 28 deaths.
@Caravanfan what are those countries doing different to keep their numbers down?
@JLeslie Taiwan has a population of over 23 million, and 7 deaths. Florida has a population of over 20 million and around 18,000 deaths.
It’s not just that the US has a big population. It’s that the US has a big _stupidly lemminglike population following Mr “It’s a Dem hoax” instructions to go over the cliff.
@Caravanfan I’m happy to compare our miserable situation compared to other countries. I myself post Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Greece, Canada as examples of how horrible the US has done. Still it isn’t apples to apples to just look at total number of cases.
@canidmajor Believe me I have given the Taiwan example more than you on fluther and Facebook. Along with videos of what Taiwan did to control covid early. Taiwan is about the population of Florida. Yeah, you probably know that example because I’ve written it multiple times.
@JLeslie Why is it not an apples to apples scenario?
I think everyone is comparing percentage of illness and death to population; I don’t see anyone on here comparing straight numbers without comparing it to total population.
Canada did a great job. They were pissed at the US for not selling them PPE from what a jelly told me, and in the early days their only chance to protect their healthcare workers and each other was to stay inside and be really careful.
India has a population approximately 3 times the size of the US, rampant poverty and overcrowding, and about half the deaths.
@canidmajor That is true about India but their infections are going through the roof.
They are just behind the US in infections.
@janbb Except the link the OP posted is ranking by total cases.
Plus, I said western countries on the post everyone is jumping on me about.
@JLeslie You’re right. I didn’t look at that link but in his details he links population and deaths.
America is about to get much worse in my estimate. Thanksgiving holiday will be the catalyst to numbers like we’ve never seen I predict. I really hope I’m wrong. I don’t think other countries have a holiday like this right now. We have a ton of people visiting where I live. It’s scary.
I post these questions so we do not get complacent about C19 and yeah am I ever tired of it, but we have to stay on guard or it’s going to get much worse.
@Jleslie and after your Thanksgiving is Christmas then lets see how this thing goes.
The problem right now is that many things are open, compared to the Spring where most things were closed (restaurants, jobs, schools, movies, stores). Now things are open, people are forced to go to work, tempted to go shopping, going to the gym, etc. and therefore it’s spreading around. Plus in the spring and summer, people were outside, walking, socializing. Now with the cold weather, people are indoors, so it’s spreading.
Just comparing Canada to the US and not citing any statistics, I think Canadians are far better at following rules and logic than many Americans.
@SQUEEKY2 I hear you but I don’t think that most of us here on Fluther are complacent about it – and the few that are will not be convinced. But I do understand your alarm!
Add to the above that we have a lot of entitled people crying about their rights, not wanting the government to tell them what to do. It’s like a pride thing to not wear a mask. It’s also politicized which doesn’t help, and not supported by the President, which doesn’t help either. Yes, supporters will say that the President advocates wearing masks, but he’s not pushing it and he doesn’t do it himself.
Here in NY, the governor said the rule would be 10 people for Thanksgiving. A lot of local law enforcement (county sheriffs) said they would not enforce it. Granted it would be very hard to enforce, but it would help if the law enforcement officials supported it instead of bashing it. So people are going to do what they want, and it goes round and round.
@janbb a few posts up I did post a link to worldometer there you can see how each country is doing with infections and deaths.
@SQUEEKY2 Well, all of the western world has Christmas. I have no doubt some countries will handle it better than others. If America is bad enough a couple of weeks after Thanksgiving maybe some people will tame their Christmas plans. I don’t hold out a ton of hope. We’ll see.
@jca2 So, they are flooding down here to Florida. Oy. At least we can be outside. Almost no one wears masks outside where I live. It’s better in Orlando and the southeast counties. Still not good enough probably. What does your sister say about where she is? Are they wearing masks outside in public areas?
They started indoor exercise classes where I live a month ago. It’s been going on in the state for months, but we just started here. Restaurants are 100%.
@jca2 I think the governor making a rule is good, even if it’s not enforced. Some people need rules and orders to abide by. They can’t think for themselves. They don’t want to think for themselves. They can use the governor as their excuse not to participate in large gatherings and avoid peer pressure they might be getting. Like saying my mom won’t let me go, when you don’t want to go with your friends to something you know is a bad idea.
@JLeslie the last part of your post Restaurants are 100%, is that 100% of them are open ,or they are operating at 100%capacity?
For comparison here’s a list of industrialized countries.
January 1, 2020 through November 19, 2020
Confirmed infections per 100,000 population
4,761…..Belgium
4,614…..Luxembourg
4,442…..Czech Republic
3,483…..USA
3,294…..Spain
3,163…..France
2,808…..Slovenia
2,696…..Netherlands
2,458…..Austria
2,314…..Portugal
2,213…..Croatia
2,105…..Malta
2,103…..Italy
2,045…..Poland
1,999…..Romania
1,951…..Sweden
1,665…..Hungary
1,635…..Slovakia
1,602…..Bulgaria
1,437…..Lithuania
1,409…..Ireland
1,135…..Denmark
1,021…..Germany
825…....Canada
789…....Greece
643…....Cyprus
639…....Estonia
598…....Latvia
362…....Finland
109…....Australia
97….....Japan
58….....South Korea
0.3…....Taiwan
January 1, 2020 through November 19, 2020
Covid-19 deaths per 100,000 population
131…....Belgium
90….....Spain
78….....Italy
76….....USA
72….....France
63….....Sweden
63….....Czech Republic
51….....Netherlands
49….....Romania
41….....Ireland
40….....Luxembourg
37….....Bulgaria
36….....Hungary
36….....Portugal
30….....Poland
30….....Canada
28….....Croatia
28….....Slovenia
26….....Malta
21….....Austria
16….....Germany
13….....Denmark
12….....Greece
12….....Lithuania
11….....Slovakia
7…......Latvia
7…......Finland
7…......Estonia
4…......Australia
3…......Cyprus
2…......Japan
1…......South Korea
0.03…...Taiwan
@Call_Me_Jay: I’m betting South Korea and Japan the populace is very compliant.
@JLeslie: Here in the County I live in, the Sheriff put out a statement that they don’t intend to enforce the Governor’s rule and then he bashed it. I’ll try to find it on FB. It doesn’t help at all. It would have been more beneficial for him to say let’s try for this holiday season to listen to the public health officials and the Governor and make the sacrifice.
@Call_Me_Jay Thanks for those numbers. I hadn’t seen that list before. I’m always working the math myself and had not done it in months.
@SQUEEKY2 The East Asian countries masked up immediately, cut off flights, strict quarantines. Taiwan has a very high fine for breaking quarantine. The government calls to make sure you are where you are supposed to be. South Korea did lots of testing early on, contact tracing.
Basically, East Asia stayed in front of the virus and never let it grow exponentially. They continue to clamp down on it when it shows it ugly head with strict measures so the rest of the country can function normally.
In America it’s like we don’t believe 5 cases will become 500. It’s very frustrating.
@jca2 That’s terrible. So counterproductive. Why not say nothing, why did he have to make any statement?
Several Taiwanese students and expats returned home because of covid and made videos. They explain their experience returning to Taiwan. Here’s one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pkospMSKGyQ
I’ve heard on many news reports SARS was a big lesson to many of the East Asian countries on what to do when a new virus emerges like this. The population just complies, it’s not just the fines and penalties.
1) Population density. Areas where there are large numbers of people are the largest outbreak locations. New York, Los Angeles, Houston.
2) A knuckle-head President who lies to the public about the dangersof spread.
3) The gullibility of the President’s followers.
4) Pandemic fatigue. People are tired of wearing masks, and long to see their loved ones.
5) In the area where I live, the sudden surge here has been attributed to a charismatic church here that purports to teach faith healing.
Why not say nothing, why did he have to make any statement?
That is the mentality we are saddled with. I’ve been saying for 20 years that they are trying to drag us back into the Dark Ages. Literally. They are working to spread a literal plague.
Here’s the view from one elected official:
“Listening to experts to set policy is an elitist approach,” said state. Sen. Steven Thayn.
“At a recent legislative hearing, Thayn, vice chair of an education committee, pushed a bill that would take authority away from Idaho’s local health districts so they can’t enforce school closures or mandatory mask orders.”
NPR – August 17,2020 – Rural Schools Struggle With Road Ahead In Era Of Coronavirus
This is the statement put out by our Sheriff, which is not supportive of the Governor’s order:
“_Rather than issuing orders, which are, at best, impossible to enforce, and, at worst, unconstitutional, the Governor would better serve the People of New York if he encouraged our citizens to be cautious, use good judgment in weighing risk factors, protect the vulnerable, and enjoy our families and our great gathering traditions only in ways that are safe, until we can get back to normal.
As Sheriff, I see a better use of our resources than to disrupt families celebrating this national holiday. I wish everyone a safe and happy Thanksgiving._”
I gave this question a GQ because it’s inspired an interesting and thoughtful discussion today.
The reason the states death rate isn’t as high as those other countries @Call_Me_Jay posted is that it is running rampant through younger people now and most of them survive being infected.
If the most susceptible people die off first, they’re not available to keep dying. I don’t see that point taken into account in what I read. So seeing the death rate decline a little isn’t much comfort because those most likely to die are already dead.
@Jeruba Great point. In fact, the early deaths ravaged the long term health facilities. In Sweden, they have a different cultural view of allowing older people to die without any extraordinary measures, while in America we do try to save our older persons if we see the possibility of hope. There are actually lawsuits in Sweden about this. The directive basically was to let the older people die to make sure the hospitals had room and equipment for the younger people who were sick.
This partly explains why hospitals in Sweden were never badly overtaxed like some other countries. The health officials have stated they have regrets about not protecting older citizens better in the beginning, but they don’t quite admit to literally leaving them to die. I can find you the youtube news reports and articles on it if you are interested. I would have to search. I saw them a while ago.
New York, Miami, Detroit, all hit hard in the very beginning during the worst of our learning curve, and these cities suffered, especially the elderly. Florida did take some quick action to protect people in nursing homes, but we still had a lot of deaths here.
@Jeruba The death rate is much lower even in places where the virus did not reach early on. They have the advantage of forewarning and learning from the mistakes of others.
For illustration, I recall a single nursing home in New York having 100 deaths. Nursing homes elsewhere learned to lock down before the virus arrived.
I’ve heard on many news reports SARS was a big lesson to many of the East Asian countries on what to do when a new virus emerges like this.
I worked for years in Evanston IL, home of Northwestern University. I rode the train with lots of foreign-born students and faculty. Wearing masks was an Asian thing. Not super common, but probably every week I would notice somebody masked up on the commute.
Did we mention that masks will make you sick, and God will protect you, and if healthy people get covid they help protect the vulnerable, so letting yourself get sick is an act of kindness. I hear that all too often. Those are some of the maskless wonders around me. The rest “aren’t sick” so they don’t need a mask to protect others, or they wouldn’t be caught dead in a commy mask.
That is what we are up against. I didn’t even mention the live free or die attitude, which @jca2 kind of alluded to with the Sheriff stating he isn’t even sure it is legal for the governor to issue such an order.
@Call_Me_Jay When I was in Japan random people wore masks, and the general direction in the country was to help protect others if they were sick, and also some people were wearing them for protection for themselves. I saw masks where I live in FL before the pandemic maybe a little more often than other places, because we have a lot of immunocompromised people, but it still was very rare.
I don’t see how the average person where I live can complain about being tired of wearing masks, almost no one wears a mask outdoors. The people who work in the supermarkets and healthcare facilities have it the toughest.
As with other phenomena involving the United States, it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that a more than substantial portion of the nation’s population is not only stupid, but dedicated to the aggressive exhibition of that stupidity given the most feeble of opportunities.
San Francisco (pop. 880k) versus North Dakota (pop. 760k) right now. San Francisco county, an urban area where most people wear masks, has reported 14k Covid cases. North Dakota, which resisted mask mandates for months, has 60k cases.
@zenvelo Good stats. I wonder the hospitalizations and deaths. Not that I think it will influence anyone. I don’t think deaths matter to the deniers. The only thing I think will help is states that are controlling the virus doing well economically and being able to brag about unemployment rates and a tax refund to it’s residents because the sales tax earnings was so high. What are the chances?
@JLeslie Those places accepting the proposition that coffins are acceptable in trade for a viable economy, can only get away with THAT line of thought through purposeful neglect of the obvious question: HOW MANY COFFINS? Back in February, had anyone suggested a quarter million deaths HERE from this disease they would have been scorned and labeled alarmist on the spot. But now, the prediction that Biden will take office to the tune of half a million coffins is not only reasonable, but likely. The problem with this contagion for the United States is that the individual states are equivalent to 50 people crowded into a room. 49 scrupulous occupants are but feeble defense against the single miscreant. The United States is UNITED in the fact that maskless magaheads can die, satisfied that their counterparts here in California will endeavor to assure ME every opportunity to join them in the coffin lottery.
@stanleybmanly To be clear, I am saying the masked states in the long run will do better economically in my opinion. Or, will if we have to live with this for another year, and I do think it will be at least a year until things can really change assuming the vaccines get approved. The states with blossoming numbers of covid cases, most of them usually eventually do start shutting down businesses and putting in mask orders. Even states with Republicans in charge. Not all of the of course.
The original estimates were 2 million, so right now Trump and his groupies can say 200,000 is a success. They don’t think in terms of how fast we lost that many lives, they don’t do the math for the 99% survival rate they boast about. When I do they math they suddenly ghost the thread I am on. They don’t look at other countries doing much better. The cannot let themselves think they have bought into helping people die.
My sister just said to me that America is going to have to retire the expression “avoid it like the plague” because it seems obvious a lot of people don’t do it.
Well, I’ll tell ya. There are several, 3 or 4 at least, sites on You Tube that you could go to to try to wrap your head around this crap. And don’t think I’m insane but Google Flat Earth sites or go to You Tube and enter flat earth. Because there are a whole lot of conspiracy think groups who have bought into the Covid 19 Hoax non sense and tie it in with other plots and conspiracies, including Flat Earth, the idea that outer space and the planets and solar systems don’t exist, the assertion that there is no Antarctica, only a vast ice wall of unknown expanse, oh and by the way, gravity does not exist. Go check out one of their videos or podcasts and you’ll see what we’re up against..And the movement is actually growing! It’s a real eye opener. Call in on open lines if you want some fun, you’ll be asparaged as a “Glober” or “Nasa Fan Boy” if you question their assertions.
No offence to my fellow American Jellies but I am glad our border is still closed .
Your border will not save you from the foolishness here. You might have the good fortune to persist til the arrival of the vaccines.
I knowed it, I done knowed it. I done told them jellyfish folks about that Squeeky2 feller. One them Canuck Nasa Fan Boys..them lumberjack fellers ain’t no ’ count no ways.
It’s what happens when you get a Non-leader for president and a bunch of non-believers for followers. These people are laying in the hospitals dying still swearing that covid isn’t real because it was made up by the dems.
@SEKA Non believers in reality. I mean these people sincerely believe in this tripe..according to them, the stats on Covid infections and deaths are being manipulated, if not completely faked, by the “Lame Stream Media”. And even the ones who have had family or friends come.dpwn with the shit, say it was only because of pre existing or underlying conditions. They are beyond reason. I never thought I would see this type of insanity take hold in this country.
.
@Nomore_lockout These idiots actually believe the covid19 numbers are being inflated by the left wing media just to make Trump look bad?
Then what about the rest of the world then?
It’s all a hoax. Fake news, propaganda, manufactured crisis. You you you gotta believe me! Space is fake! Gravity is fake! The vaccine is just a way to track us! Hillary drinks baby blood in the back of a pizza parlor! C’mon man! You got to get woke! Don’t be a sheeple! Baa, Baa! Uh, I meant don’t be a Nasa Fan Boy!
I guess that is why we call them Fright wingers,huh?
Yup! But of you have time some evening, usually on weekends, check these clowns out. Globe Buster’s ,/ Space Buster’s/ NASA Liars, or Flat Out Truth. It will blow your mind. Any or all of the above. Listen for maybe an hour because it’ll be about all you can take. But at least you’ll get a good idea of the mind set of these people.
Combination of anti-science lunacy and a “no one tells me what to do!” self-centered mentality.
@SQUEEKY2 You say fright wingers, but I would guess from their side the Democrats look like the frightened ones. Covid will kill you, hide inside, Trump is Hitler, Trump will never leave office, Trump is stacking the courts to stay in power, North Korea is going to bomb us, the Middle East will dissolve into a terrible war when Trump names Jerusalem the capital,Trump will deport everyone, Trump is racist, Trump wants to put women back in the kitchen.
Some of it is true or half true, but to them it isn’t. To them it looks likes the left is selling fear to get rid of Trump.
Both sides sell fear to get votes.
Meanwhile, everything @Nomore_lockout wrote I see all over my Facebook. People really believe it and more.
@JLeslie I see your point to a degree, but our fears have a potential of playing out, most of theirs are demonstrably false. Space doesn’t exist? Gravity doesn’t exist? The Earth is flat? Covid stats are exagerated or made up completely? Fear or insanity?
Sounds like you need to clean up your Facebook page @JLeslie.
@Dutchess_III I did a few months ago. There were two local Facebook groups I was in that had a lot of people believing the crazy and posting false information. Always arguing about everything. I left those groups.
I have a couple of friends who are completely brainwashed, but I ignore them for months now or hide their posts.
@Nomore_lockout I’m not saying the scare is equivalent on both sides, but I feel strongly when left leaning media goes too far with how they edit and spin to increase the fear that it works against our country and against the Democrats. There is so much real and true information to be concerned with regarding Trump that embellishing (which can be called lying) gives room for Independents and Republicans to focus on just that and tune out altogether. It also gives Republicans material to market their brand of hatred towards parts of the media.
I think THIS has a lot to do with it.
@gorillapaws I’m not seeing all the states on there – I wonder why?
@janbb It’s divided into 2 graphs the top 25 most cases and the bottom 25. There’s a button at the top of the graph (below the title) that lets you jump back an forth between the two. Hope that helps.
^^ Thanks. I figured I was missing something – like my state! Cool graph.
I’m pleased that Kansas is toward the bottom.
@Dutchess_III It’s 12 out of 50 states—within the top 25%. I’m not sure that’s very much to be pleased about. I guess there’s 11 other states that are worse off… Sending you guys good thoughts and best wishes over there.
@gorillapaws Why does that have a lot to do with it? In my estimate this is the reason:
The number of QAnon adherents is unclear as of October 2020, but the group maintains a large online following. In June 2020, Q exhorted followers to take a “digital soldiers oath”, and many did, using the Twitter hashtag #TakeTheOath.[29] In July 2020, Twitter banned thousands of QAnon-affiliated accounts and changed its algorithms to reduce the conspiracy theory’s spread.[30] A Facebook internal analysis reported in August found millions of followers across thousands of groups and pages; Facebook acted later that month to remove and restrict QAnon activity,[31][32] and in October it said it would ban the conspiracy theory from its platform altogether.[33] Source.
Since Facebook took action the QAnon people and the people influenced by Q who seem unaware that Q is stoking the fire have taken to being furious that free speech is being trampled on. Some have left facebook at least temporarily. The Q trolls who constantly ignited the hysteria have been abolished. The average person who still talks the Q talk is still there, but the level of chaos is much smaller.
@Call_Me_Jay That’s probably due to the motorcycle rally held in Sturgis, SD where 250,000 people attended in August, most without masks.
@chyna I think so too, and I was thinking how the infection really was a sleeper for a month or so there, creeping along at not very high levels, and then suddenly it exploded, because the Dakotas really do almost nothing to inhibit the spread from what I can tell. We have always known covid grows exponentially when given the chance, but what surprised me was the long time lag. It actually made me think of NYC, and how covid was barely there, and then it was everywhere, but it had probably been in the over 6–8 weeks creeping along at higher levels than we realized until we couldn’t miss it anymore.
I think the only thing that saves my city is most people do believe it is real, even if they won’t wear masks, and most people don’t work, so they are not interacting with the public as much as the average person in that way. When they are sick they can quarantine without missing work so there is no conflict. Plus, we have easy access to testing. The Dakotas have such a high positivity rate I am assuming they don’t have easy access to testing, or people don’t get tested unless they actually feel sick. Still, my friends and I worry about a sudden explosions of the virus here. I guess everyone who takes it seriously worries about that where they live.
Michigan is really bad from the Trump rallies in my opinion. The Trump boys were rallying in several places. My friend who lives in the UP, in her city the ICU is “100% full” and prior to the rally their infection rate was really low.
@JLeslie “Why does that have a lot to do with it?”
…Because the population-adjusted number of cases since 6/½0 and the political leaning of the state are very highly correlated?
I guess one might argue that COVID is making people become Republicans, or that some 3rd factor is causing an increase in both COVID cases and the Republican support in the state. That said, my hunch (and this might sound radical to some) is that ignoring the recommendation of epidemiologists and implementing risky policies that are not in line with guidelines is…. a terrible fucking idea!
@gorillapaws It’s my mistake. I thought this was my Q about facebook calming down when I answered you. That’s why my answer was about facebook policy and QAnon. I agree with you about the terrible fucking idea. I was just talking to a Republican friend and she was asking me what is Biden going to do that will be much different. One of the things I said was I think he is hopeful that all leaders will get on the same message. Hoping these idiot governors agreeing and reinforcing their most lunatic supporters won’t feel the need to play politics and stop doing supporting the fringe and message we all should be working together to protect ourselves and each other. We’ll see.
@chyna thank you!
It’s odd to be honest but thought I’d give it a try again.
I got banned for making fun of one of the more ridiculous Jellies about 5 years ago, who has since been banned herself I heard, haha. Oh karma, you beautiful thing you. Funny thing is apparently my ban was for only 2 weeks, but I thought it was permanent!
@FutureMemory Welcome back. We are few but mighty – or maybe just mightily crazy!
I can’t remember if anyone has stated this I think most other countries population are more compliant to follow their health officials guid lines ,where people in the US are not.
@SQUEEKY2 darn tootin’ ya love fig newtons. As my old pappy used to say.
Americans are assholes. And I was born in Texas.
Hey, Dutchy is a Texas gal! Knew there was something I liked about her! Just don’t go all Jade Helm on us. : ]
Jade Helm is kind of a nice name, don’t cha think? Lots of Texas babies running around with the name “Jade Helm Smith.”
Thanks I need a good laugh today. Mad as hell at my appliance repairman right now.
Jus beat him s’verely about the head and shoulders @Nomore_lockout.
Tell him “If at first you don’t sucseed keep on a suckin’ till you do suck a seed.”
(Daddy was raised in Sunray, Texas…)
No, @jca2 Wasn’t even aware there as a tornado last night. Too angry about something to watch the news.
@Dutchess_III Good ones Dutchy! Lord help me, I’m starting to like you more and more every day!
@janbb Hey now… I have all the respect in the world for her. She’s a happily married woman, and I’m a happily married man. Can’t you have friends of the opposite sex? If not, then I guess I have no friends, all my friends are women. I guess I’m a loser.
Now I’m wondering if I need to go to a head shrinker.
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