Are you able to condemn the immoral actions of people who belong to groups you belong to?

Of course. It’s very easy for me to do so. I do not get defensive.

Sure. It’s easy. I guess it helps that I’m distrustful of groups in general, especially those that would have me as a member, and even within them, I just need to be the contrarian. If my group is wrong, I love being the one with the stones to say it. It doesn’t make me popular, but I like to think I leave an impression. Usually I’m right, sometimes I’m wrong, but at least I wasn’t another bandwagoning dolt.

For the most part it would be easy for me. But, if I feel personally attacked for belonging to the group, I would likely get defensive while also stating that I didn’t condone what Jane or John Doe did.

I can but it is hard for me at times, with various issues.

Usually when I become defensive, it’s because someone/group just want to be ‘right’ and not actually listen, debate or consider an alternate point of view.

I don’t belong to any groups. I might vote for a certain person, enjoy certain entertainment, or drive a certain car but I do those things because I like and appreciate them. I don’t identify with other people who like the same things. I’d see that as a coincidence. As such, I have no need to either defend or condemn their actions, whatever they might be.

In fact, fuck ‘em for liking the same things as me.

Does country count as a group?

How about economic class?

@hello321 I’ll count it for the sake of this question. :)

Thanks for the answers, everyone.

@Demosthenes Aren’t you going to answer?
You are one of the most interesting, least offensive brains here, come on!

I make an effort to not consider myself part of any group, so I can condemn anyone I goddamn please with self-righteous and unreflective abandon.

@ragingloli I thought you were a German alien, that’s two groups right there! :D

Not by choice.

Yes, I hope so. If you can’t condemn immoral actions you aren’t really a moral person.

I try to do my best not to be hypocritical so yes.

Yes.

Absolutely.

Who am I condemning, and for what purpose?

In the abstract scenario presented in the OP, sure. No problem. Probably wouldn’t even bat an eye.

But I think it would be hard for most people to answer this question with anything other than a version of yes (and it would be an honest yes).

In context, I don’t think things are always as clear cut or straightforward for people.

@sadiesayit Well sure, I think we answer “yes” because it’s what we aspire to and consider to to be the “correct” answer, but even on a subconscious level we may defend people who seem to be “one of us”. Just going off of the politician example, I frequently encounter people making excuses for behavior from politicians from their own party or ideological leaning, behavior they would hastily condemn if the politicians were from the opposite party. They’re not necessarily doing it flagrantly, it’s just how we are. We don’t like it when people who identify with us engage in bad behavior, so we ignore it or cover it up or make excuses. I think a lot of us sometimes have trouble admitting when “our side” is doing something wrong, from what I’ve observed.

And I also recognize that “condemnation” is sometimes requested in bad faith, such as the “where are all the moderate Muslims?” question that comes up every time there’s an Islamic terrorist attack, as if “moderate Muslims” are assumed to be on the side of terrorists by default unless they make the specific condemnation being requested and prove that they’re not radicals. If I were a Muslim, I wouldn’t want to dignify that request.

If things are more nuanced, then by all means discuss it. I’d be interested to hear some examples from people as opposed to simply a “yes” answer.

To respond to @KNOWITALL‘s request, I can think of a time when I brushed off an instance of a gay man hitting on a straight man and trying to “convert” him, behavior that can verge on harassment and is widely condemned when straight men do it to lesbians. It was subconscious for me; I realized afterward that I had automatically tried to make an excuse for him and act like it was no big deal. But even though I am gay myself, I can recognize when other gay guys are being shitty and shouldn’t defend behavior that I’d condemn in someone else.

Definitely. Even if it means being an outcast.

Just one more reason I quit being a virgin.

@Desmosthenes The scenarios that came to my mind was being a patriot watching people storm the capitol, or hearing an abortion clinic were bombed. Political associations are difficult because I agree with most of the ideals but not the actions.

@KNOWITALL Yes, I can understand that. Based on the many times I was told by people who agreed with the cause of BLM/Antifa that they didn’t support the looting and violence. Sometimes “our side” takes it too far.

Of course everyone is going to say “yes”. But without real examples I’m not sure that means much. So I’ll give one -

As an Illinois voter and a lifelong Democrat I was one of the first to call for Blagojevich to be removed from office, and I voted for the corrupt piece of shit.

@Darth_Algar – Here here.

I’ve been saying Cuomo could suck it for years. I laughed my ass off when Spitzer went down and the level of corruption in Albany was exposed. I thought Bill Clinton should have resigned or should have been convicted by the Senate. Rioting undermines what it hopes to achieve. Punching Nazis is a really bad idea. Every Kennedy can eat my ass.

I’ll admit I wasn’t convinced Franken was such a bad guy, though.

Well yes. But I might not say anything. I avoid drama.

I’m unAmerican.