Given the fact that Minnesota law requires juries in all criminal trials to reach unanimous verdicts, do you really expect a guilty (or innocent) verdict in the Chauvin trial?

I think he will be found guilty on all three counts, personally.

1st degree murder is premeditated. Guilty.
2nd degree is not. they are both intentional. Guilty.
3rd degree is manslaughter. Guilty.

So on the video, people were screaming at him to let Floyd up. He did not. At any point, he could have chose to save a life or not. He chose wrong and we all know it and saw it.

“Manslaughter in the Second Degree occurs when a person continues with a reckless act that they are aware of committing, and they consciously disregard the potentially fatal risks involved to others. The risk must be of the type that any reasonable person would not ignore.”

All states require a unanimous verdict in all criminal trials.

Well done @KNOWITALL. I’m wondering just which “board” craze has in mind concerning jurors. And even “wrong way thinkers” who might survive peremptory challenges, would find it tough acquitting the ironically monickered Chauvin on all three counts.

Jurors who entered the trial with an open mind will certainly vote for conviction, but there may be some who went in with their minds made up.

I’m with @Darth_Algar. All states require a jury’s decision to be unanimous.

@crazyguy I think in your OP you probably meant “unanimous” not “anonymous.”

Up until 2020, in Louisiana, a person could be convicted of a criminal case with a 10–2 vote. Oregon still does allow non-unanimous criminal verdicts.

Having said that, yes, I think it will be 12–0 in the Chauvin case.

He can’t be convicted of first degree murder because he had no previous intention, or plan, to kill that one particular individual.
Second degree is intentional, but on the spur of the moment, not pre-planned.
Manslaughter is accidental, unintended.
If he gets convicted of any of the three, it will be manslaughter.

@janbb Thank you. Yes, I did.

@filmfann What about those who went into the trial with their minds made up for conviction?

@kritiper I agree 100%.

@elbanditoroso On all three counts?

@kritiper Without the evidence, you may be right on premeditated. I havent watched much of the actual trial.

The fact that cops are subject to the same rules re: manslaughter, etc is obscene. Chauvin murdered a guy and only did so because he had unjustifiable power granted to him by the state.

@hello321 The “unjustifiable power granted to him by the state” is not a freedom to do as you please, to whomever you wish, whenever it might suit you, license to kill at will. We aren’t completely uncivilized…

@kritiper

And yet that is precisely what happens far too often. And cops have been shown, time and time again, that they can get away with it.

@KNOWITALL: I don’t believe he’s being charged with first degree murder. I know the public wanted it but the state said it wouldn’t stand.

@kritiper – I have no idea what your response was supposed to mean. But to clarify what I’m saying: Since the police have more power than regular people, the penalties that police face for crimes should be greater. If we’re going to grant the police the power they do, they should be held to standards so far greater than non-police that concepts of premeditation and the degrees of murder should be inapplicable.

There is sufficient evidence for giving a verdict – a videotape and eyewitness testimony and testimony from doctors and fellow police officers. Nobody is disputing that Chauvin spent nine minutes kneeling on Floyd. The defense is saying that Floyd died from drugs and that it was just coincidental that he died while Chauvin was on top of him. The jury should be able to decide if this is plausible.

@LostInParadise Coincidence my foot.

@LostInParadise: “The defense is saying that Floyd died from drugs and that it was just coincidental that he died while Chauvin was on top of him.”

That still doesn’t fly. If Floyd had overdosed in the street and was not getting murdered by the cops, he would likely have lived. There was a chance that someone would have called an ambulance – or that he could have.

If this is the defense, they’re really making the crime into an even greater tragedy, which should do nothing to change the fact that Chauvin (and the other cops) murdered Floyd.

@Darth_Algar Like I said: “We aren’t completely civilized.” Some of us are, more than others, and some of us aren’t, less than others.

@hello321 Floyd wasn’t murdered. No one intended to kill him. He died as a result of (possibly) one person’s actions, and maybe the combined actions (lesser and/or greater) of all who were there.

@hello321: It’s not what you or I believe or even think we know, it’s convincing the jury. The defense is doing their job to plant the seed of doubt. I hope he’s found guilty, believe me I’m not justifying anything, but it will be in the jury’s hands.

@jca2, Thanks for summing up my position so well.

@kritiper I don’t believe that.

7 minutes waiting after a Code 3 emergency health call from the officers, with a knee still on him? 16 times he said he can’t breathe in five minutes?!
All those people watching and filming and trying to save his life and he still didn’t let up.

To me, that’s intentional and I watched four cops kill a man for using a fake twenty at a gas station. I received fake cash from a bank and the stores just didn’t accept it so I sent to my bank for the FBI to investigate. You aren’t automatically given a death sentence for passing a fake bill in America, at least not if you’re white.

@hello321 In further response to an earlier post, you read too much into what any/all police force can and/or are able to do, and you lump all police persons in that same category as wanton killers little or no moral standards.
@KNOWITALL We’ll see what the verdict washes out. You aren’t the jury and neither am I.

@kritiper You’re right, and I’m glad I’m not. They’ve heard a lot more than any of us, for sure.

@kritiper – You have not understood what I said at all. Although, I suspect if you did you’d be even more disgusted.

I would be surprised if he were not found guilty on at least one of the counts. Even if the jury believed that it was an overdose that was the ultimate cause of Floyd’s death and that Chauvin was kneeling on Floyd’s shoulder instead of his neck, Chauvin still held him down while he died instead of getting him the medical help he needed. That would, at a minimum, be manslaughter. But I am not in the jury and have not been present for all the testimony nor reviewed all the evidence. So it could be he is found innocent, but I find that highly unlikely.

Herding is a thing. People often change their minds to fit into a group, whether they know it or not. Assumptions, revelations and biases unique to their group are swirling and bringing them all along together, to mostly the same place.

You’d think that a system requiring a unanimous vote would be unworkable, but group dynamics have a profound impact. So yes, I think, given the options, the group will be able to agree on something, though acquittal admittedly seems unlikely.

@seawulf575 I think I agree with you, and perversely hope you will be proved correct, just to curb the arson and looting that will ensue if he is found innocent on any of the counts. However, having watched some of the cross-examination, I think at least one juror can be persuaded by the defense that there is some doubt.

As for your statement about Floyd dying while Chauvin leaned on his neck, that fact may be obvious in hindsight but it was not apparent to Chauvin. For instance, Chauvin is alleged to have continued leaning on his neck for over THREE minutes after Floyd died. Surely, Chauvin did not know that at the time.

@Smashley You make an excellent point. I served on a jury where I was the lone holdout for a couple of days, but was eventually persuaded.

@crazyguy “As for your statement about Floyd dying while Chauvin leaned on his neck, that fact may be obvious in hindsight but it was not apparent to Chauvin.”

That’s reaching…

@crazyguy , Chauvin should have been aware of the danger of leaning on someone’s neck. According to the testimony of several police officers, that type of behavior is not something that they are trained to do.

@LostInParadise Actually, it is. The question is how long is appropriate.

@crazyguy: If you’ve been watching the trial, actually, it’s not.

I hope for a conviction but expect he will get away with it like they all do.

@crazyguy Here the gut that trains the MPD !

Lt. Johnny Mercil, who has been in charge of teaching the use of force in the Minneapolis Police Department’s training division, says former officer Derek Chauvin’s use of his knee on George Floyd’s neck is not a technique the police teach when instructing officers how to restrain people.

@jca2 I just said the trial feels like they’re trying to find any excuse possible to excuse the officers from wrongdoing. While I understand it, as the defense, it’s hard to listen to, for me.

@crazyguy It doesn’t matter if Chauvin knew it or not. Floyd died while Chauvin was on him. If he knew Floyd was dying, that is 2nd degree murder. If he didn’t, that’s manslaughter.

The defense is working on the ” Police can do no wrong !” defense. SMH

^^ In their “defense”, they’ve got nothing. I’m surprised the trial is still going on when all the evidence is united against him.

@janbb You are displaying the typical Left disdain for due process. Remember innocent until proven guilty?

@seawulf575 I would find Chauvin guilty of extreme, reckless disregard for life, which is one of the cornerstones of manslaughter. However, remember there are 12 jurors who all have to agree…

@KNOWITALL I am a student of interesting trials. I love cross-examinations, which essentially amount to verbal entrapment. I am glad that third degree murder was added to the list of charges, because murder in the 2nd degree may be impossible to get a conviction on. And a murder conviction may be required to satisfy the mobs.

It is instructive to see why 3rd degree murder was excluded in the first place. From

https://apnews.com/article/derek-chauvin-trial-murder-charge-explained-5e7c935f560219caee61fcc0bef0a23d

WHY WAS THAT CHARGE DISMISSED TO BEGIN WITH?

Chauvin’s lawyer sought to dismiss the charge, arguing there was not probable cause to charge him with third-degree murder. A Minnesota judge ruled last October that third-degree murder under Minnesota law requires proof that someone’s conduct was “eminently dangerous to others,” plural, not just to Floyd. The judge said there was no evidence that Chauvin endangered anyone else and threw out the charge. Prosecutors appealed.

@Goofygirl55 In 20/20 hindsight, there is no doubt in my mind that Chauvin over-reacted in the situation. The whole trial is meant to show that even in real time, Chauvin should have known better.

@jca2 In 20/20 hindsight, I agree with you. However, the prosecution’s job is to prove that even in real time, Chauvin’s actions rose to the level of extreme, reckless disregard for life, at a minimum.

@crazyguy Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your view) I don’t believe Chauvin can possibly get a fair trial. The entire thing has been too publicized and he was convicted from square one in the court of public opinion. To believe that there are 12 people that don’t know of this case and can be perfectly unbiased is ludicrous. So I can easily see 12 people that would at least go along with extreme, reckless disregard for life.

@seawulf575 I agree with you. However, do you think that is enough to quell the bloodthirsty hounds who are just waiting for a chance to burn down the city?

@crazyguy Nope. They are looking for any excuse to riot, loot, and destroy and blame it on someone else.

My theory about Chauvin is that if he’s found not guilty of all the charges, he better go hide in the woods with his guns for the rest of his life because he’ll be hunted down like an animal and killed, unless he gets protection from the White Supremacists. The alternative for him is if he moves to another country. He won’t be able to work anywhere ever again, because he’ll always have to watch his back.

He’s going to have a target on his back if he goes to prison, too.

I bet he is very sorry now for what he did, because his life is changed forever.

@jca2 probably has it correct.

By the way, it doesn’t help Chauvin’s case that the woman policeman in one of the suburbs shot that 20-year old earlier in the week. It makes Chauvin’s lawyers have to surmount a more general charge of police incompetence.

@crazyguy: Would you like to see Chauvin do a lesser sentence or would you prefer a longer sentence, if it were up to you?

@jca2 I would prefer a lesser sentence because I think there is enough doubt about what Chauvin was actually trying to do. In any case, with time off for good behavior, he will probably be out by age 55.

See

https://brandtdefense.com/how-does-jail-credit-work-in-minnesota.html

@jca2 In my earlier response I forgot to add “credit for time served”.

@crazyguy: NY is the same way – they do ⅔ if they can stay out of trouble while in jail. Then again, who knows if Chauvin will stay out of trouble. He’ll probably be involved in a lot of trouble unless he remains in protective custody. I imagine he will be a constant target for other prisoners’ anger, constantly defending himself, constantly involved in fights.

@jca2 I thought it is nationwide; but I checked specifically for Minnesota. I have a feeling that the only way that Chauvin will survive his time in prison is by being in solitary confinement, unpleasant as that is. I won’t be too surprised if he requests that.

@crazyguy: Makes sense. I couldn’t blame him.

@jca2 Unlike you, I believe that is a sad commentary on our society.

” @jca2 Unlike you, I believe that is a sad commentary on our society.” . . . because the jury should have declared him innocent ?