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elbanditoroso's avatar

Does it matter that Turkish president Erdogan is ticked off at the US?

Asked by elbanditoroso (33577points) April 24th, 2021

Finally the US acknowledged (today) what everyone has known for 100 years – that the Turks annihilated the Armenians in 1915. Most history books call in genocide.

Erdogan called in the US ambassador today to protest.

Does it matter what Turkey thinks? The massacres and genocide are historical facts. Wasn’t it time for the US to finally quite playing charades and confirm the obvious?

Is Erdogan just another wannabe dictator?

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9 Answers

ragingloli's avatar

It is one of the inherent hallmarks of nationalists everywhere, that in order to assert their ideological and national superiority over the rest of the world, historical crimes and failures of their motherland/fatherland, must be denied, erased from history, or, if that fails, excused, diminished, or justified.
Erdogan’s outrage and denial of his country’s history, is neither unexpected, nor unusual, not even among “more civilised” countries.
It is easy for other countries, who are not affected by the guilt these crimes evoke, to condemn other countries for their dark history.
That is why neither Erdogan’s protestations, nor the Colonies’ public acknowledgement of the Armenian Genocide, matter.
What would matter, is countries acknowledging and dealing with their own dark past. Their own atrocities and injustices committed in both distant and recent past.
Them realising that they have a responsibility, both to restitute the victims and their descendents, and to make sure that these failings are never repeated. Responsibility not personally, but collectively, as a society and as a nation.
There are very, very few countries that are willing to do that, and those that do, only in a limited capacity.
The UK still mourns its fallen empire. Still thinks it somehow is. India’s uprising for independence in the mid 19th century, is still referred to as the “Indian Mutiny”.
A certain political spectrum in the colonies, denies that the civil war was about slavery.
They deny that slavery was all that bad for black people.
For the rest, the tenor is “it has nothing to do with me”.
Japan, I think, barely teaches to its children the atrocities they committed in WW2.
Poland recently criminalised depicting and describing polish people as collaborating with the Nazis, no matter how true, how well documented it is.
Even Germany, which rightly infuses this sense of collective responsibility for the Holocaust into its new generations, only does this for the crimes committed during the 3rd Reich. Anything before that, and they bicker about it like any other country.

So again, Erdogan being “ticked off” does not matter.
Biden’s proclamation does not matter.
It is all just empty theatre, firmly in the realm of transparent virtue signalling.

Zaku's avatar

Well, Turkey is a US ally and member of NATO and has an important strategic position, so Turkish-US relations matter in that sense.

I think the issue of Turkey’s actions in 1915 is relevant historically and in principle and perhaps in relation to current policies, but those past actions themselves are AFAIK not currently of great relevance, though I am not sure what current actual legal or policy issues might have some actual current effects. As @ragingloli just answered in more detail, much of the public posturing doesn’t matter much and probably has little to do with actual US-Turkish relations, or Erdogan’s actual thoughts and feelings.

mazingerz88's avatar

It only matters that I think we need Turkey airspace for our military to operate when needed in that part of the world. Erdogan is not a good guy in my book. He came to DC and his bodyguards beat up Americans protesting him if I’m not mistaken. Uncle Sam has a serious balancing act to do. As always.

@ragingloli When I expressed anger over the atrocities of the Japanese military in WW2 and those present day Japanese who honor these war criminals by calling them a supposedly derogatory name, I got suspended here in Fluther.

janbb's avatar

It’s pretty important to the Armenian community that their genocide be remembered and named. They have been calling for the US to recognize it for decades. I suspect Erdogan will bluster and blow but I don’t think there’s much he can do. But it is worth noting that is was the fear of Turkish reaction that has delayed this recognition too long.

But I do agree with @ragingloli that it is far more important that a country like the US recognize and make restitution for the atrocities they have committed themselves.

kritiper's avatar

No. As a member of NATO, Turkey gets lots of stuff from the US and other countries. It’s like dealing with a child: take the candy away that they have always received, even after being bad, and they throw a tantrum.

crazyguy's avatar

I think the US needs to be consistent in dealing with foreign nations. How can you call out the genocide in Turkey, but stay silent on China’s treatment of the Uighurs?

crazyguy's avatar

@janbb Thanks. I had missed that.

Response moderated (Writing Standards)

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