When do you think the US will start to fight the global Covid-19 pandemic?

@hello321 – you wrote “this is…murder”.

It’s not – under any legal theory – murder. You might get agreement on negligent homicide, but that’s about it. You’re exaggerating the hell out of it to call it ‘murder’.

I would suggest that you ask the same question of the Oxford/Astra Zeneca people and the Russian Sputnik people. (and the Chinese, but their vaccine isn’t as good, it appears).

As for the patent waiver – my guess is that the administration is discussing it; the trick is that expropriation of intellectual property is a lot like theft, and there have to be all sorts of legal niceties involved.

^ Oh for fucks sake. Call it “intentional killing” then. Is this a courtroom drama or a fucking global pandemic?

It’s not as simple as releasing the patents; there is a whole supply chain that needs to be built up. I’ve read that as soon as Astra-Zeneca is approved by the FDA we will release 60 million doses to India. I agree that help should be expedited and I believe pressure is being brought to bear on the Administration.

In the meantime, I donated yesterday to a local group that is sending oxygen cartons to India; you might look into something like that. Outrage only gets you so far.

@janbb: “It’s not as simple as releasing the patents; there is a whole supply chain that needs to be built up.”

It is that simple. That supply chain cannot be built without releasing the patent. That means that we haven’t started to address Covid vaccination at all.

@janbb: “I’ve read that as soon as Astra-Zeneca is approved by the FDA we will release 60 million doses to India.”

Exactly. That is obscene. there are more than 1.3 billion people in India. We’re blocking the ability for India and the globe to all simultaneously all ramp up manufacturing and distributing the vaccine and instead giving a tiny amount of vaccine?

@janbb: “I agree that help should be expedited and I believe pressure is being brought to bear on the Administration.”

Let’s hope it works.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/world/us-vaccines-india-covid.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-25/u-s-to-consider-sending-india-unused-vaccine-doses-fauci-says

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/us-provide-vaccine-components-medical-supplies-india-2021-04-25/

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/25/us-to-give-india-raw-materials-for-vaccines-medical-supplies-to-fight-covid.html

Just a sampling of googling “US sending vaccine aid to India”

I don’t know the ins and outs of patent law and the such, but I do know (I was discussing this with my girlfriend today) that we (the first world) get bitten in the ass by ourselves if we don’t do the humane thing and help countries that haven’t the logistics, the meds, the expertise, and what have you, to vaccinated their peoples.
India, with over a 1600 million people.
The Africa continent, with I have even no idea how many people.
China, South America, South-East Asia….
Let them figure it out, and in a year we’ll get some nice mutations that possibly won’t be covered by the today’s vaccin.
So we’ll start all over again.

Disclaimer: I know fuck all about vaccins and stuff, so I might be totally off, but I gladly invite more knowledgeable Jellies to enlighten me cq agree with me :-)

@canidmajor – Well aware of this obscenity. TRIPS waiver is a different issue, and the US sending vaccines to India is exactly why we need the TRIPS waiver. It’s in no way an argument against it. ??

Any guesses on percentage of global population that has been vaccinated?

The US vaccination rate means nothing. This is a global pandemic.

@hello321 I think we all know that.

And by the way, India has been producing its own vaccine which it stopped sending to Africa since it has its own crisis. It’s just not nearly enough and yes, we and the other countries of the world need to address that. As we are starting to. Not saying that it’s enough but again, there are nuances here.

Here’s an article about the situation and one place that individuals can do something:

https://abcnews.go.com/International/india-amid-covid-19-surge-devastating-country/story?id=77322355

It seems from that the main need at the moment is for oxygen more than vaccines.

Most of us are concerned with alleviating the present suffering rather than a long shot at dismantling capitalism at the moment.

I could also post the local organization I donated to also.

@janbb: “Most of us are concerned with alleviating the present suffering rather than a long shot at dismantling capitalism at the moment.”

Ok, here we go. Yeah, I get it – you don’t feel it’s time to criticize the problem, and that it’s important to send a few bucks to help out. I get it. I’ve heard your position.

This implies, however, that you are pushing back on the TRIPs waiver. I wonder why this is? I really thought this was a no-brainer.

Good for you for donating for oxygen $. I’m not sure what that has to do with the TRIPs waiver and vaccine IP hoarding during a global pandemic though.

We (the US) have to get our own house in order first*, then we can worry about everyone else.
(* get herd immunity)

It’s not like any other country can’t develop their own vaccines. India is smart enough. And Russia supposedly has one.

Either lots of good press, or when it becomes very profitable for them to help the way you want.
Money is the only real thing that matters in todays world.
Sure there will be push back saying oh no that is not true people matter more than money.
But they really know that’s not true.

Ain’t it awful.

I don’t see how anyone who reads the news could not support this waiver, frankly. But many are not well-informed about world news as we saw from the initial Covid cases.

I agree with you @hello321. But remember America and others almost let Hitler destroy the world and commit genocide. The easy path is the one most prefer to take, politically.

Looks like the OP has left the building. :(

He’ll be back. We always come back.

Anyway, Tom, I agree with you. If not the “murder” part which is a bit hyperbole, I agree with you on the rest of it. I think the US not only should, but MUST allow for vaccination distribution and patent clearance for the whole world. People will die in the hundreds of thousands in the developing world. The mutations that will arise will threaten us all. Most of us are getting vaccinated. Do we know if that vaccine will work against the Indian or Brazillian strain? I don’t.

I still have a bit of a frayed belief in the ideal of American exceptionalism. We have resources and economic engine that no other country in the world has, even China. We have the capability, quite literally, of saving the world. Whether we will or not remains to be seen. I’m losing hope.

Just hate for he/she to miss that we agree on something before he/she leaves! :)

Regarding the India variant and the vaccines, I just read this article this morning, and thought jellies would be interested. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/29/covid-vaccine-biontech-ceo-confident-shot-works-against-india-strain.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.PostToFacebook&fbclid=IwAR0mI6-Dt5o7Zr69QcKUDeikbLjj01K-YkaCV2XAQk4W84qUK6iDwpYhu4M

It sounds hopeful that Pfizer does give us immunity against it, which I assume means Moderna will also. Fingers crossed.

Update: The Biden administration at the WTO did support temporary patent waivers to increase the supply of vaccine in poorer nations.

Here’s a discussion from CNN:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/05/politics/vaccine-patent-waivers/index.html

My response is that same as it was five days ago.

US absconding with corporate intellectual property is a very bad precedent to set. If the government can expropriate drug patents, they can do it for any damn thing they please.

Why should any company ever invent anything new if the Feds have the ability of taking it from them?

And I don’t buy the argument ‘It’s just for COVID’. Once the door is open, it is impossible to close.

Drastic times ask for drastic measures.
I’m confident that wavering is a one off, purely to not only help more people of dying in developing countries, but to halt the spread globally.