When Pfizer and Moderna vaccines get full FDA approval will more people be willing to get vaccinated?

Doubt it. These had preliminary approval 6 months ago and we now have had months of proof. I don’t think that achieving ‘full approval’ is going to change anyone’s mind. The empirical proof is that it works and anyone with a brain could have seen that.

The deniers are going to have to invent another excuse.

Don’t think they will.

They have the choice of getting vaccinated or getting COVID-19 and dying or some are “Long Haul COVID-19” with permanent damage to their bodies including “Brain Fog”. I know several dealing with “Long Haul” and one of them lost his wife to COVID-19.

But they don’t and in my area it is political thing, they act getting vaccinated supports President Biden.

I sure as fuck hope so.

I have some reservations about these vaccines and how political they have become. The political aspect in particular indicates to me that the FDA approval will be a rubber stamp. So Full FDA Approval really doesn’t mean a whole lot.

“I have some reservations about these vaccines and how political they have become.” That is rich, coming from you Wulfie!

They have become “political”, because right wingers made them political.

They should market the vaccines as “developed under the Trump administration!” to encourage all those who see the vaccine and think Biden.

Meanwhile I just intubated and paralyzed someone in the ICU who has Covid. Happy 4th of July everybody.

@filmfann great idea.

@ragingloli I’ll be honest, I’m not exactly who made them political, but they sure have been. When you start talking about vaccine visas, you are basically saying that if you aren’t vaccinated, the government is going to control you. That’s about as political as it gets. And it isn’t all right wingers that make them political. You fools on the left contribute quite a bit as well. Not to mention smarmy comments on social media!

@filmfann Since I am the voice of dissention here, I will tell you I don’t care who they were developed under. When you have a type of vaccine (mRNA) that has never successfully passed animal testing and start the animal testing while you are injecting humans, something sounds off there. It seems a sketchy way to do it. And the fact the government allows that supports my position that they have become so political.

Nope. Today was another high case count and 47 on vents. The wake up call is happening right now, here.

Sorry to hear that @caravan. Hugs.

@filmfann Yes! I said that as soon as Democrats didn’t want to give Trump any credit for always supporting and encouraging the vaccines, which he did. He wanted the credit. What would have been the harm with agreeing he fully supported the research and development of the vaccines?

Every time I point out the backfire effects of Democrats being blindly against anything Trump, I get accused of being a horrible person, but I’m just predicting how it can be used against us. ESPECIALLY when it comes to health it just drives me crazy. I definitely think it killed some extra Floridians than had to die with the intense anti-DeSantis during covid.

@elbanditoroso I basically assumed most of them would just come up with something else. I think @seawulf575 reinforced that theory.

@KNOWITALL Are you saying the hospitalizations there are changing the minds of some people?

^^Why would you even believe that BS that trump deserves credit for supporting anything about any vaccine? Why would anybody deserve any credit for doing a job so obviously simple in his or her position at the time?

He deserves credit if a vaccine was only available in Mars and he went there to get it himself and sacrificed his own life getting it.

It’s also obvious at least to me that some Democrats don’t want to give trump any credit simply because he is an asshole who doesn’t have a problem playing with the actual lives of actual people because of his assholery and half a million Americans are dead. In his watch.

He’s a sociopath who incites rage and then watches on TV the mob he sent attacking which caused actual deaths. And he preened. Credit?

The asshole doesn’t deserve any credit.

@mazingerz88 Yes, all of what you wrote is obvious. You haven’t said anything that disagrees with what I said or think.

Do you want to try to confuse Trumpers so they are more likely to take the shot or not? Maybe fearing Trump being president is more important than if some more people die from covid.

I just heard on local news that six Surfside search and rescue workers have covid19.

@seawulf575 The Pfizer and Moderna did perfectly fine in animal trials, what are you talking about? The trials would not have continued if the animals were dying.

@JLeslie He’s been a denier for a year now – you’re not going to get him to see sense.

The problem with the Wrong Wing (formerly the Right Wing) is that facts and proof are not obstacles to their anti-science world view. Said another way, if it doesn’t agree with the anti-government, antiscience, anti-technology world view that these people have bought into, then reality is simply ignored.

@elbanditoroso Yeah, I know.

@JLeslie Yes the deaths and hospitalizations are causing people to ask more questions. Its mostly older people who are asking though.
Its all over local news and social media too.

Like ‘be safe this 4th, hospitals are full of Covid patients.’
Hospitals are posting about borrowing vents from KC & St Louis.

@KNOWITALL Interesting. That’s what helped my community I think, we are mostly older people here. The risk ratio for them is very different than younger people.

I do see over and over again when a few family members get vaccinated eventually the rest of the family does it, so I continue to hold out hope that more and more people will finally make the decision to get vaccinated.

@JLeslie The animal trials were concurrent with human injections. And for several years before, the pharma companies all were working on mRNA vaccine development and could never get past animal trials. To many side effects and long term effects. THAT’S what I’m talking about. Something seems sketchy when technology that was never fully developed suddenly, miraculously, becomes perfect and humans can be injected. Animal testing was done as a side note, not a development tool. And may I remind you that there were problems with at least some of the vaccines. Formation of blood clots, etc. that killed people caused at least one vaccine to be pulled from release. But then it was later put back on the market, again, amazingly quickly.
Thalidomide was once touted as a great drug too. Until the horrible, unfortunate side effects had to be admitted. But that took 5 years.
Too much about these vaccines are sketchy. And I’m not an anti-vaxxer…I’ve gotten my share of vaccines. Shoot, I was vaccinated for things I would never have considered before when I was in the navy.

@elbanditoroso I find your comment completely hilarious since I am the one that cites scientific studies all the time and show them as support for my views. And you know what I hear in answer? Just do what they tell you. You need to support everyone else. So who is it that isn’t following the science?

Just saw a poll from two months ago saying it’s mostly for political reasons why Republicans wouldn’t take any vaccine.

Best guess those who still haven’t gotten it for still the same reason will never get it. Unless Covid and its variants start slaughtering thousands at an alarming rate again. Only then. Maybe.

^^The antivaxxers (I’m not calling you one) are purposely twisting the words of previous studies and what was done regarding the covid19 vaccination development. You aren’t reading the full verbiage regarding previous trials for mRNA just edited pieces.

Here’s a link https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2A22UW

If you think it was an irresponsible risk for the researchers to use human volunteers simultaneously while doing animal trials is an opinion I won’t try to argue with, but at this point the fact is animal studies did occur and so did all phases of human trials. At this point millions have taken the vaccine, the original people in trials well over a year ago.

Human studies are the most important. Much more important than animal studies. There is no animal that reacts in all ways exactly as humans do. Animal studies often involve much much larger doses to observe possible negative side effects. People in initial studies also had higher doses and lower doses than what was finally approved. They are being observed over time.

J&J was paused in some states while they researched the blood clots. You should be happy about that. That’s what is supposed to happen, reports come in and the FDA investigates and makes a determination to either pull the drug or put warnings for contraindications.

The world learned a big lesson with thalidomide.

Just ten years ago probably 90% of lay people did not know about reporting side effects to the FDA they left it up to doctors and they too often did not report. Up until 6 months ago I think most people had never heard of VAERS form, but that as long as I can remember has been the way to report vaccine reactions and anyone could report you did not have to be a doctor. With these vaccines the United States government has specifically informed the average American to report and how. Why doesn’t that impress you?

I’m guessing it will never be “long term” enough for you. That’s fine. I know there are other people initially reluctant who know feel ok getting the shot.

@Mazingerz88 People do change their mind. One of my best friends was afraid because of previous anaphylactic reaction to something else and her husband is a Trumper so he sees all the negative information. Her sisters told her to get her mom vaccinated who lives with her. I told her where she could get the vaccine with EMS on sight. Once her mom and she were vaccinated her husband went ahead and got the shot too.

Now, @KNOWITALL is saying some people might be changing their mind where she lives.

I continue to say be understanding with these people who are reluctant and just keep trying to overcome their objections. One thing that worked on the side of hope with the friend I talked about was she always took COVID very seriously. Her husband not so much, he said things like, “I don’t even know anyone who had it,” and other things commonly said. He still got the shot when his wife made the appointment for him.

@JLeslie Animal studies are done prior to human trials because, while there is no animal that reacts the same as humans, it does give us a chance to see if there are any adverse reactions or long term effects in animals so we can further evaluate them in humans. When all the impacts in animals are understood, THEN you move to human trials. Otherwise you are using humans to test your product. And if you kill them, so what? Is that the mentality we are being reduced to?

“J&J was paused in some states while they researched the blood clots.” Imagine if they had actually done animal testing first, they might have seen that reaction BEFORE they put it into humans. How many humans died because of that? How many had long term impacts?

VAERS was not well known before the pandemic. It was pointed out by a right wing news outlet as I remember and that got people looking at it. It is a good thing. But when the negatives of the Covid vaccines are being reported, the left wing media starts making up stories about why that is okay. Why is it okay for there to be so many more negatives with these vaccines than any other in our history? I get it that VAERS may or may not have been used very much, but it sure was with these…and that usage started BEFORE it was brought to light and people started going to it. Why is it that when you see a graph that shows what amounts to an enormous spike in negatives with these vaccines, everyone is okay with that? I’m going with the fear aspect. They don’t want to know there might be issues because they are terrified of the disease.
And that terror was likewise pushed by the left wing media. Many people thought this disease had a huge mortality rate. If you got it you died. In reality something like 99% of the people that got it lived. Something like 97% of the people that got it had very mild symptoms and did not require medical treatment.
All these things are political weaponry. Why push such a negative story? Why push for human guinea pigs instead of animals? Why push for masks even, when the studies already existed that they were basically useless and possibly made things worse?
As far as I can determine, mRNA has been studied by the Pharma companies since around 1990. So in 30 years, they never created a single vaccine…they couldn’t come up with a stability required to do so. Yet suddenly, in the space of a couple months, all the problems encountered for 30 years were resolved and human trials were ready! Does that sound even vaguely realistic to you? This is about the only study on mRNA that I can find and it is for the current batch.
Are you starting to see how all the pieces play into my reluctance to believe these vaccines are as good and helpful as they are being claimed?

The U.S. has had 600,000 covid fatalities, second only to Brazil.

@LostInParadise
If you trust the numbers of third world countries.

I can’t continue too exhausting.

^^Trump fans will never take suspiciously developed vaccines even if Covid kills 10 million Americans. Lol

On the other hand, many Trump fans couldn’t wait to get their hands on the last stimulus check, could they?

@AlaskaTundrea
It is because they deserve the money. It is the others that are the moochers.

@mazingerz88 Plenty of Trump fans are vaccinated. I have them all around me. I agree Trumpers are more likely to not get vaccinated, but mostly the people not getting vaccinated are being persuaded by anti-vax and some far right Christian groups and QAnon. There is all sorts of overlap of course.

My reporter in Kenya told me Christian ministers there are saying the same garbage information there about the vaccines and scaring people. It’s a whole network. That’s partly why Black people are likely to be hesitant, their churches are scaring them not just the history of the government experimenting on them.

The new germ warfare—convince other countries not to get vaccinated.

@JLeslie It is interesting that you bring up the government experimenting on blacks. It hits to the core of people’s lack of faith in the honesty and integrity of our leaders. For half a century at least they have experimented on various people, subverted others, spied on some…all in the name of some murky greater good. And no one has really ever been held accountable and there is no downside for their behavior. MK Ultra, Operation Midnight Climax, the targeting of Black Panthers, and more recently the Trump/Russia fiasco with lying on FISA warrants…all show a government that is no longer a shining star. It is more like a bloated monster in some ways. So can you really blame people for being skeptical and distrustful of the government?

Lots of Trump fans have got the vaccine. There is some overlap between people who don’t trust the government and those who elected Trump because he was an ‘outsider’.

@KNOWITALL Makes sense. There are some Democrats not getting vaccinated either, and also Democrats who don’t trust the government. I think people need to weed through all of the messaging and go with what is true according to their own eyes. Most people are doing that, but some seem unable to. They listen to the people they trust rather than trusting their own eyes and ears.

@seawulf575 So you think we are just like 60 or 150 years ago? Learned nothing? White Southerners still want to enslave Blacks, still want to segregate bathrooms and lunch counters? Experiment on Black people? You think our drug testing has not improved at all ethically? Is that right? I’m not even saying it is above reproach, I definitely do not think that, but it is not the sinister that you want it to be. In this case of covid it is all races were in the trials, and all are being vaccinated with equal access. I don’t blame people for being hesitant initially, but there is a difference between someone who was initially hesitant who always took covid seriously, and a person who was hesitant who has bucked covid being a serious problem all along. The latter just does not want to deal with covid at all in any way, they don’t feel it is anything special or different than any other virus that kills so me people and they blame individuals themselves for not being healthy enough to fight it off.

17 deaths this weekend and hospital begging for Respiratory therapists. So sad.

@KNOWITALL Which website do you use to look up statistics? Does it have all states? Does it go to the county level? The state site I used to use is no longer being published.

Edit: The news should be reporting on hotspots like yours more and also areas back to normal with no or ow cases and no or low deaths that are vaccinated. Show both, and not blue areas, they should show Republican areas of the country that are very vaccinated and doing well.

What is Fox News saying about it? Anything?

@JLeslie I go to my local health dept website at least twice a week. Yes it does give count numbers.

My state seems to have stopped publishing. It was supposed to change to once a week instead of daily. It used to be daily with cases down to the city level, I really liked that. Hospitalization were by county and also you could see current hospitalization in each and every hospital, it was incredibly detailed. Deaths were by county. Now, I can’t find anything. I might call the health department. Florida is not doing great, but not the worst either. My area is doing well though, but you know, all these tourists that come here endanger us.

@JLeslie Our highways and lakes were packed for the 4th with tourists and locals both. I’m pretty nervpus about the next week or two.

@KNOWITALL I don’t worry very much outdoors, but the restaurants and people indoors together that’s not good. Hold my breath that you get lucky there and not a lot of cases.

I went to a zumba today to a class I have specifically avoided because it is full of Trumpers in the real Trumper sense, and not your regular Republicans. I thought I would be comfortable because we have been doing so well here. I was wrong, the place became so incredibly crowded it was pushing my luck I think. That instructor isn’t limiting her class anymore I guess. I won’t be going back to that class. I do have confidence in the vaccine and I feel protected, but if I found out she had cases in her class, I would feel like I need to be at least a little concerned about it for a few days, and I don’t want to deal with that.

I’m curious to see what happens at Sturgis this year.

@JLeslie Good call. The Delta variant is more easily transmissable.

@KNOWITALL I do feel like if we had one more big outbreak that would push some of these people over the edge and they would get vaccinated. I don’t wish it on anyone, but if it happens I think it will have some effect if it gets publicized. We have really high hospitalization and death rates here when there are cases.