Do you support "burqa bans"?

Of course not.

Mixed. There is a solid argument for religious freedom and then there is religion that subjugates women. Of course that is bad and should be opposed. I certainly would not want some religion telling me what I can and cannot wear, same goes for Gov’t.

It’s always about what the women should and should not wear.
If a woman wants to wear a burqua, and feels more comfortable wearing that than street clothes then more power to her.

Yes there is a distinction to be made between what someone wants to do rather than being forced to do. If the latter never came into play then this would not be a topic of discussion.

I wouldn’t support it in the USA. (i.e. I agree with Dutchess’ answer for the USA.)

I’m not going to tell the French what laws to pass, nor do I know exactly what laws they have passed there. I assume burqas and other full face coverings are allowed in general but not in some places such as for students in grade schools?

I raised this question on here some years ago and there was a lengthy discussion of it then when it was a timely topic.

@Zaku As I understand it, the French law bans burqas in all public places with some exceptions. France also bans religious symbols in schools (wearing a Christian cross necklace would thus not be allowed). This kind of secularism goes much further than anything we do in the U.S. France is not alone in its “burqa ban”, though. Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Netherlands, and a few other European nations also ban full-face veils (a few Muslim majority countries do as well).

@janbb Link? I’m sure this has been asked before. I actually thought I once asked about it. I don’t mind bringing it up again. There was a recent interesting discussion about this on another site and I figured I’d post it here too.

“Telling women what to wear is wrong, so let’s forbid women from wearing burqas!”
—the French government*

We don’t need to know the precise line between what religious freedom ought and ought not allow to know that this is way on the side of “ought to be allowed.” We also don’t need to be legal scholars to recognize that the French laws about “conspicuous religious symbols,” which define what is and isn’t allowed, are designed in a way that permits the overwhelming majority of Christians to go on living exactly as they did before the laws were put into place.**

If someone wants to wear the burqa, they should be allowed to make that choice. If someone does not want to wear the burqa, they should also be allowed to make that choice. The problem with requiring women to wear them, after all, is that they are being deprived of their freedom to choose for themselves. And in that regard, forbidding them is no different. It removes the agency of the wearer and replaces it with the judgment of someone else—something for which there should be a very high bar.

Finally, we should keep in mind that burqas are technically not a religious symbol. They are an item of clothing worn in certain cultures that some religious leaders have decided to require others to wear. But the only thing the Quran requires of men and women regarding clothing is to dress modestly. It does not specify what counts as modest or immodest, which is why not all states that operate under Islamic law require the same types of clothing.***

——————————
* Not their explicit reasoning, of course, but the logical consequence of many arguments in favor of the ban.
** Furthermore, married Jewish women in France are not prevented from covering their hair for religious reasons because the enforcers don’t register their hair coverings as religious.
*** Part of me wants to go to France and walk around in a burqa until someone tries to stop me. Let’s see them tell me with a straight face that I am wearing it as a religious symbol.

No I don’t. I love seeing all cultures represented.

Interesting about the French law. I oppose it because I feel that people should be able to cover their faces as a matter of personal human rights (notwithstanding religious or cultural views, which are other reasons that I also support). I oppose the idea that everyone needs to be identifiable at all times in public, and feel that’s a horrible idea that oppressed human rights in other ways.

No. Either we are are a free society, or we are not. Can’t have it both ways, and feel-good rhetoric won’t get it done. Freedom of religion.

This in France @Nomore_lockout.

@Dutchess_III Well then what happened to Liberty, Equality, Fratenity? I’m disappointed in France. Always had a preference for their philosophy over our own. I hope they get it together.

What would people say if women were required to wear nothing at all?

Not touching that with a ten foot pole. @TJFKAJ

Especially if they were under 30
Might be an interesting debate

@Demosthenes Here is my thread from 2010!:

https://www.fluther.com/71346/whats-your-reaction-if-any-to-the-possible-banning/

@janbb Oh man…Fyrius and Nullo and other AIROWites…and mattbrowne, haven’t thought about that guy in a while. Now I’m sad. :(

No.

—@Demosthenes I know! So many good ones gone!—

I think they are trying to give women more freedom, because let’s face it, many women don’t wear burqa by choice, they are forced into it by the men of their family. But this is really not a good way to do it.

@TJFKAJ I fail to see how this is related to the discussion.

@SavoirFaire ”The problem with requiring women to wear them, after all, is that they are being deprived of their freedom to choose for themselves. And in that regard, forbidding them is no different. It removes the agency of the wearer and replaces it with the judgment of someone else…”

That’s such a perfectly articulate and sound argument. I want to write as well as you do when I grow up.

Interesting question at a time when we’re all fighting over whether the government should be able to require we all wear face masks. Seems like they either can or can’t. But of course they have a good reason so that would be the deciding factor. Of course the government is the one to decide what is or isn’t a good reason. It all gets a bit confusing. The general rule seems to be, “Do as you’re told and keep your mouth shut”. So I will.

I have no opinion.

I used to be in favor of burqa bans. One argument I used to make was people should identifiable, but more than that I felt it was extremely oppressive to have women cover everything but their eyes. I was always fine with a hijab though, and women could choose to lift it over their nose or mouth at their discretion.

Now, we want everyone to wear a mask, so one could argue the identifiable thing is questionable, although I feel where it is important people can be asked to remove their mask for a brief moment for a camera.

Mostly, what I care about is women having choice. Ironically, one way to achieve choice is to forbid it.

In public school I’m for uniforms and not allowing religious or cultural changes to the uniform. It’s a tricky subject for sure. Forbidding a hijab also means forbidding a yarmulke. If I remember correctly France does not even allow a religious pendant on a necklace. I’m ok with that decision.

Wearing a hijab type face covering and black robes would make it really easy to rob banks and commit other crimes. I’m surprised it’s not done more often.

How DO banks in the Arab world survive?

(facepalm)

@Zaku I wouldn’t be surprised if the countries that use burqas don’t allow women to use the bank.

I fyou ban burqas, you have to also ban the habits that nuns wear.

Nuns don’t cover their face.

that is absurd.

Article from 2017 about women needing permission to open a bank account in Saudi Arabia. Maybe it’s better now. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-womens-rights-driving-ban-lifted-marriage-custody-bank-accounts-travel-medical-operations-dress-codes-a7969551.html%3famp

Here is an interesting article showing both sides of the arguement.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/hassan-yes-we-need-to-ban-the-burka-in-canada

For security reasons meaing passports and so on they should be removed to enable identity.
Citizenship cerimonies require they remove them as well, other wise any other time its acceptable to wear.

Imagine a passport with a person wearing full face coverings? ( kind of useless).