Is the third shot actually reducing covid cases?

No.

No one is getting a third shot yet.

^^Israel has been.

Where I live people started last week. I know about ten people. I’m sure there are many more. Some are immunocompromised some aren’t.

It most likely will boost the, at the time of the shot, decreasing/decreased protection percentages.
That will most likely get the R number down.
Lower R number means less transmission.

@rebbel I’m quite disappointed that I know so many people with breakthrough cases. I always questioned the initial efficacy rates of the two dose, and it was like talking to a wall on Q’s here. No one understood what I was talking about. I kept saying Pfizer and Moderna were tested when people were being very cautious, and I was constantly told it didn’t matter because it was double blind. Of course it does matter.

I think it’s far too soon to conclude anything.

@janbb Probably true. I was thinking Israel maybe had proven the third shot was working and that’s why we are doing it. I’m waiting until November 1st, unless I change my mind. That’s 6 months for me. I’m curious to watch the information over the next few months.

The mantra right now is the vaccinated aren’t winding up in the hospital. That is insufficient for me.

The breakthrough cases are Delta variant, for now.

There is a Lambda variant now in several areas, that vaccinations don’t prevent infections !

Seriously doubt it is known yet.

Btw, I contacted the CDC itself to find out exactly who is immunocompromised, and gave my conditions. They explained boosters and third shots (which aren’t the same) and summarized by telling me to ask my doctor. Sooo helpful!

@smudges You would know if you are immunocompromised.

Conditions? Do you mean conditions that make you high risk for complications or for severe disease? That’s completely different. Although, immunocompromised people would also be at risk for severe disease. We could also argue being older makes a person more likely to have a weakened immune system.

As far as I know they plan to give the same dose to immunocompromised as people just boosting, even though there is an argument to use a lower dose for a boost, especially Moderna.

I would hope they are testing people to see if the third shots are spiking antibodies or other immune markers, but they might not be, they didn’t seem to do it in the first trials. Frustrating.

If you don’t test then you don’t know. How much testing is going on?

Before I get a 3rd SARS CoV-2 vaccine injection, I want my blood antibody titer checked. I don’t want to willy-nilly get pumped up with vaccines.

@gondwanalon Generally, I feel the same about vaccinations. I get my tetanus titer every 5 years-ish rather than the booster, but almost no one does. The recommendation is to just get a booster every ten years; doctors don’t care if you are still immune or not. In fact I would say most doctors think immunity is waning by then, but I do get tested and most of my family, and we are immune after 20. It’s only recently my immunity level came down significantly, but still immune.

The recommendations are based on the fact that there is rarely any harm done by giving people the booster. More practical to just give everyone the shot than to do a lot of testing.

I’ll wait to see a few million people with normal immune systems getting the third shot before I get my third. I’m planning on early November, which is 6 months for me, because I feel very sure Thanksgiving will be another huge spike in cases. My plan might change of course.

I hope they keep good records of side effects and start keeping better records of breakthrough infections. I just read only about half the states are tracking and reporting breakthrough. I’m very annoyed with that. It FEELS (not scientific) like there are breakthrough all around me here.

Someone I know is immunocompromised and in a research study. They had a sophisticated antibody test and had no spike antibodies got the third shot and was tested and had them. They had to go off their meds for a week or two before and after getting the new shot.

@JLeslie (apologies for the length) I’ve read the meaning of immunocompromised as everything from advanced age to obesity, lung diseases to kidney diseases, pregnancy, diabetes, smoking, alcohol/drug abuse, and obviously, cancer, as well as taking certain drugs. Lifestyle factors such as stress and lack of sleep can also weaken the immune system. “It’s difficult to get reliable numbers on how many people are immunocompromised. The National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences estimates 24 million Americans have an autoimmune disease, but that number doesn’t take into account those who are immunocompromised because of a genetic disorder, or as a result of medications.”

Even MDAnderson says, “The term “immunocompromised” is actually quite broad and relatively poorly defined. But generally speaking, it means someone’s immune system isn’t working as well as it should be to protect them against infections.” Just type in “what does immunocompromised mean” in a search engine and you’ll get site after site claiming they know, but also sort of backtracking and hinting that no one really knows, even doctors. Sure, there are certain conditions which are positively identified, but there are many more which seem to be ‘iffy’.

So no, I’m not sure that I would know if I’m immunocompromised, and from what I’m reading, about ⅓ to ½ of the population is, based on the varied definitions. I have mild emphysema, CKD stage 3, lymphodema – which is all about the immune system, heart disease and an aortic valve replacement, hypertension, obesity, and I’m over 60. And I’m adopted and don’t know what else might be in my family history. I’m one of the least worried people regarding Covid. I don’t think I’ll get it and am not particularly concerned if I do, but I would like to take precautions if I can, so that’s why I’m wondering if I’m immunocompromised and should get the third shot, and am frustrated that even the CDC wouldn’t tell me.

From the CDC: (I left the bold type intact)
“CDC recommends that people with moderately to severely compromised immune systems receive an additional dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine at least 28 days (four weeks) after a second dose of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine. CDC recommends that people who are immunocompromised talk to their doctor to see if they should get an additional vaccine dose.

Studies indicate some immunocompromised people don’t always build the same level of immunity after vaccination the way non-immunocompromised people do. An additional dose may prevent serious and possibly life-threatening COVID-19 in people whose immune system may not have fully responded to their initial vaccine series.

In ongoing clinical trials, the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) have been shown to prevent COVID-19 following the two-dose series. Limited information suggests that immunocompromised people who have low or no protection after two doses of mRNA vaccines may have an improved response after an additional dose of the same vaccine.

CDC does NOT recommend additional doses or booster shots for any other population at this time. This guidance may be updated as more information becomes available.

The CDC also has additional information information regarding getting additional covid vaccination.

Studies indicate some immunocompromised people don’t always build the same level of immunity after vaccination the way non-immunocompromised people do. An additional dose may prevent serious and possibly life-threatening COVID-19 in people whose immune system may not have fully responded to their initial vaccine series.

A booster dose is a supplemental vaccine dose given to people when the immune response to a primary vaccine series is likely to have waned over time. The need for and timing of a COVID-19 booster dose has not been established. No booster doses are recommended at this time. This guidance may be updated as more information becomes available.”

@smudges It reads to me like the CDC has not updated their website because a quick search on Google on news sources says that the CDC is now recommending a third dose for immunocompromised with the advent of Delta breakthroughs. And I believe they are talking about implementing it for other at-risk groups in September for those inoculated 8 months prior.

@janbb That’s great. Thanks for that information about the antibodies and immunity.

@smudges Well, the CDC, NIAID, HHS, WHO, you name it, logically wants to make sure the immunocompromised get their shot that they need, because right now they likely have little to know immunity, so they are basically like the unvaccinated, but they believe in and want the immunity from the shot. They aren’t anti-vaxxers.

To me it’s just simply the government is trying to keep some sort of orderly process putting the most vulnerable first. They don’t want to open the flood gates and have people clambering and filling up appointments ahead of the most vulnerable. In my OPINION they are just “managing” the masses, which makes sense to me don’t get me wrong.

Immunocompromised to me is people taking immunosuppressants, or being in certain types of cancer treatments, certain cancers like Leukemia. People usually have been told they need to be careful about infection if they are immunocompromised. Chemo patients have been wearing masks for 30 years, not just for COVID. They know they are at risk because the treatment harms their good cells too. People on prednisone, and other immunosuppressives know they are at risk for infections way before covid existed.

Other things like diabetes and high BP are high risk to me not immunocompromised, but I’m not a doctor. The high risk people in my mind count though, if they have a breakthrough infection it can be bad.

Anyone who wants to can go and say they are immunocompromised and get their shot. In Florida they can, I assume all states.

Again, it appears to me both a dose for the immunocompromised and the dose for waning immunity are going to be the same, so the definition just doesn’t matter. Have you heard they might give different doses?

People are using the term 3rd booster, which is completely wrong. Most of the American population will not get definitions straight or understand the difference between the pre-existing condition of being immunocompromised vs. the pre-existing conditions that make them high risk if they catch covid, so the government makes it as fool proof as possible.

Edit: also eight months helps to manage the masses, so there is some order to when people go to get their third shot. It automatically spaces people out. It lets healthcare workers at high risk for exposure go first also.

I have two friends who are DR’s who received their 3rd shot this morning.

It will provide continued and extended protection.

@janbb I didn’t get that off of a website. It’s what the CDC emailed to me a few days ago when I wrote asking what their definition of immunocompromised is. As I said, even the docs at MDAnderson say the term is broad and poorly defined.

@JLeslie They aren’t anti-vaxxers.

Based on your response, I feel like you didn’t even read what I wrote. I know they’re not antivaxers. I also mentioned that of course people who have cancer or are taking certain drugs are immunocompromised and I know what it means for them. I don’t think you’ve looked up the meaning of immunocompromised, because if you had, you would see that many well respected sites list pregnancy, diabetes, hypertension, CKD and COPD, as well as other conditions, as being immunocompromised. I also know that boosters and third shots are not the same thing and stated that. I also understand that being seriously immunocompromised is somewhat different from having conditions which would predispose someone to becoming seriously ill should they get Covid. So basically you gave me no new information, but just reiterated what I had already said while editing out what didn’t agree with your views.

To answer your original question, Is the third shot actually reducing covid cases? again…I seriously doubt that is known yet.

And that’s the last time I’m getting sucked into a question that is pure speculation, because out of the 9 responders, you’ve gotten basically 9 different answers. Because you said if I was immunocompromised I would know it, I went to a lot of trouble for nothing in hopes of explaining what the CDC and other sites said about whether or not I am. I don’t want to be rude, but I wonder sometimes why you throw questions out here when it seems you’ve already decided on the answers you’re looking for.

@Forever_Free Do you know if they are immunocompromised? Because the average joe, including Dr.s, aren’t supposed to be getting the shots.

@smudges Over 60 is good enough in my opinion to qualify as immunocompromised. It’s good enough for Israel and in the US we give bigger doses of flu vaccine to over 65, because of a lower immune response. I’m not a doctor as you know. (I have to say that I’m not a doctor over and over again even though no other jelly has to. Some jellies here beat me up for over a year that I’m a horrible person for answering any medical Q without stating each time I’m not a doctor, but they never say they aren’t doctors).

If you take steroids for your emphysema then that suppresses immunity, but I assume you don’t, because you would know that, you seem medically savvy.

Seems to me you definitely fall in the high risk category. CKD, BP, emphysema.

I know you know they aren’t anti-vaxxers. My point is they are the same as being unvaccinated like antivaxxers if the vaccine did nothing.

The CDC is recommending third doses (boosters) for everyone after an 8 month window. I assume you received your vaccine fairly early in the game since you are high risk. Your 8 months must be coming up soon.

@smudges Can you elaborate please.

@JLeslie Yes, I feel sure I’m in the high risk category, but for the life of me I can’t find anything that definitively describes immunocompromised. The only reason it matters is that supposedly only immunocompromised people can receive the third dose. So if I am, I’d like to know so I can get it; I’ve heard you need a physician’s reference. (But coincidentally, I’m seeing my endocrinologist tomorrow, so will see what she has to say.) Everyone else waits until their 8 months is up and gets a booster. So I was just trying to find out from the CDC, and even they didn’t answer my question. :(

I don’t get why people bug you about saying you’re not a doctor. Screw’em. LOL

@Forever_Free I was just curious about whether they were immunocompromised because they are the only people who are supposed to be getting them right now. So if they’re not, I was kind of thinking, “Well that’s typical, people jumping in line early because they’re privileged.”

I just found this from cnet.com regarding the third shot: The guidance from the CDC is for people who are “moderately to severely” immunocompromised, including organ transplant recipients and those being treated for cancer in the blood.

https://www.cnet.com/health/cdc-panel-votes-to-recommend-third-covid-shot-for-some-immunocompromised-people/

aHA! Thanks to trying to clarify my question for you, I found what seems like some very good info, and apparently, I do not qualify for a third shot right now. And probably neither did your doctor friends.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/14/1027597108/6-things-to-know-if-youre-immunocompromised-and-considering-a-3rd-shot

@smudges Right now it is immunocompromised people’s turn (need to wait at least 28 days after second dose). Then it will be everyone else, recommended at the 8 month mark after second dose.

Here is more info: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.abc27.com/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-pennsylvania/whats-the-difference-between-a-third-dose-and-a-booster-shot/amp/

This has a list of who qualifies to get the shot now, scroll down to the bullets: https://www.va.gov/health-care/covid-19-vaccine/booster-shots-and-additional-doses/

I still say it’s more about an orderly process for people to get a third doses. A way to prioritize the most vulnerable and then people to get boosts as immunity is supposedly waning.

OMG @JLeslie, you really don’t read what’s written or follow links. My link from npr.org said exactly the same thing. That’s why I said (above) that I don’t qualify for a third shot right now, and probably neither did those doctors who jumped ahead in line.

Just nevermind

@smudges What’s your concern exactly? I think we are talking past each other. Is it that you are afraid to get a third shot if you are not technically immunocompromised? Like you will be “overdosed.”

” Pretty much over 60 years old is immunocompromised.” NO !
I’m not a medical professional!

Definition of Immunocompromised – - ” . . persons with weakened immune systems include those with HIV/AIDS; cancer and transplant patients who are taking certain immunosuppressive drugs; and those with inherited diseases that affect the immune system (e.g., congenital agammaglobulinemia, congenital IgA deficiency).” – - – CDC Website

Not that you are old !

^^In Israel they are vaccinating over age 60 boosters at 5 months or more. https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/health/2021/08/23/israeli-study--pfizer-covid-19-boosters-protect-4-times-better-in-people-60-

I understand the difference between boosting waning or not very high immunity and getting a third dose for people who never spiked immunity.

There is voodoo in medicine. Why is penicillin often 7 or 10 days? That’s what they test in the trials. 6 might be plenty sometimes, or 8, etc.

Why was J&J one dose? They probably wanted to get to market faster since they were lagging behind. I said since day one it will eventually be two doses, and that’s exactly what is happening.

Why is it 8 months when Israel is doing 5 months? Israel did the study! Probably, because health officials want to give the severely immunocompromised a month to get their third dose before everyone else starts rushing into the drug stores to get their shots. It is August now if you didn’t notice.

Why do over 65 get larger doses of flu vaccine? Not as robust an immune system as young people on average.

Here is the German study showing 31.3% of over age 80 had no antibodies after two Pfizer shots. What about age 70? https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.03.21251066v1.full.pdf

I’m not the only person saying older people probably have less immunity than younger on average. Doctors are saying it too.

Other way around. Older people have more immunity than kids. That’s why kids have colds 2, 3 times a year.
The older people already had all those colds. That’s why it’s rare to see old people with a cold.

@JLeslie I’m going by definitions and you are going by feelings . . . .

I’m not a medical professional and I think you’re NOT a medical professional !

@JLeslie This is the last time I will respond to you on this thread because I feel you are either deliberately or accidentally being obtuse.

What’s your concern exactly? I think we are talking past each other. Is it that you are afraid to get a third shot if you are not technically immunocompromised? Like you will be “overdosed.”

Again…I’ve been trying to find out if immunocompromised applies to me because I would like to get a shot if I should, but not jump ahead of those who truly need it if I’m not. Because I believe in being fair.

No, we’re not talking past one another. You’re not paying attention, or reading, I’m not sure which. I know this because of your answers, and also because I’ve seen you say on at least one other thread in which you wrote yet another long-winded response, that “I haven’t read the other answers, but….”. So, you’re determined to be heard but have little interest in having an actual dialogue where you respond to what people actually say. While I’m at it, it would also be nice if you would stop talking down to people, i.e., “Like you will be “overdosed.””

@smudges I’m not trying to talk down to people. I wasn’t sure if you are concerned about getting a third shot too early for YOU. That it might be medically contraindicated. Worrying about jumping ahead is completely different than if you WANT the shot or not.

I’m just asking you if you WANT it now. You said you will ask your doctor, sounds good. Do whatever he says. More than likely he’ll say go ahead and get it, but who knows what he will say.

@Tropical_Willie I’m going by scientific data, and what seems more than a coincidence. I gave you the links. I know the difference between the third and booster. I also know they are exactly the same dose, unless they changed since last I looked.

I’ll repeat . . .

“Definition of Immunocompromised – – ” . . persons with weakened immune systems include those with HIV/AIDS; cancer and transplant patients who are taking certain immunosuppressive drugs; and those with inherited diseases that affect the immune system (e.g., congenital agammaglobulinemia, congenital IgA deficiency).” – – – CDC Website

Not that you are over 40 or 50 or 60 or 70 . . . .

Where is the data ? ? or is it only feelings ?