What should be done about the thousands of Haitian migrants assembling at the U.S.-Mexico border?
Just interested to hear your solutions. :)
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71 Answers
I didn’t hear about this.
I think in general regarding the border we should cut a deal with Mexico to help build a city there and have Mexico keep a lot of the immigrants they are letting into their country. We can take a certain amount and they keep a certain amount. Other countries can help absorb some also. One problem is the drug cartels in Mexico. I’m not sure how to address that.
Send them home or let them starve or die of disease where they stand. We don’t have the room or resources to take care of more than we already have. People the world over will die ugly deaths anyway, so we shouldn’t worry about it. Better to reduce the overpopulation, sad as it may seem…
I think we should pass an immigration tax that would only be paid by billionaires and use the money to house them and train them for jobs to eliminate unemployment.
The reality is harsh : There is currently no basis for them to gain legal entry, and they will be expelled.
Most of the people in this group are here because they wrongly believe the US border is open to anyone seeking assylum, and that they can claim refugee status simply by crossing the border. These false rumors spread partly because of confusion regarding the extension of Temporary Protected Status for Haitians already in the US, but also due to deliberate misinformation spread by “coyote” smugglers charging for transport to the border.
The only immediate solution is get them into custody quickly, provide emergcy food & medical care, and process them for deportation as humanely as possible.
Unrelated but related, for many many years Haitians have been floating over to Florida like the Cubans, and Cubans would get automatic asylum and the Haitians of course didn’t. It was often portrayed as a race issue, but it’s also a political one obviously. Most people in the US seem unaware how often people come across the Caribbean and Straits of Florida onto Florida shores over the last 40+ years.
Fixing Haiti seems impossible. Government has been terrible for as long as I can remember, or lack thereof, poverty, natural disasters, really tough. Haiti is basically in a state of anarchy or close to it for as long as I can remember.
Mostly my point is, if countries were safe and prosperous people would not be leaving in droves, except for climate change issues which will force migration in coming years no matter what the situation otherwise. That’s why I had suggested giving money to help build cities if we can’t absorb all of the people, but just throwing money at the problem doesn’t help fix corruption in countries.
Meanwhile, I see articles about labor shortages in restaurants and other industries in the US, so maybe we need immigrants who can work in those fields. I’m not sure what is going on really regarding employment.
My prediction is more and more immigration chaos across the world in the near future. I hope new technologies will make life better for everyone, but it could do just the opposite. Scary times.
Let them in, give them homes, and give each a written apology for fucking their country over for the last two centuries.
Mexico has accepted them. Let Mexico keep them. If the USA stops accepting them then they will stop coming.
@JLoon GA. I completely agree many of the people migrating here are being fed false information by coyotes, but that is the explanation of the political right from what I can tell and liberals didn’t seem to want to hear that during the Trump years.
If we (the US) had a better information campaign and more visas being given out for legal immigration, and if doing it the legal way was less expensive than coyotes it might help. I’d much rather see someone pay $1,000 to the US government for processing and $1,000 for a flight than giving thousands to coyotes. I’m just making up numbers.
Vet and vaccinate, then send them to the Midwest so we have employees who want to work. We have the room and jobs, as chicken factories here do for Mexican labor.
What @Kropotkin said.
The answer is the same with all of these questions about people attempting to flee countries that we have destroyed – let them in, give them immediate citizenship and housing, etc.
I understand why they would want to leave. If I were in their shoes I’d probably do the same.
Haiti is a mess
I find it interesting that there seem to be some on this thread that have argued in the past that we should allow all people into our country…that borders are basically wrong. That we are being hypocritical since we started off as immigrants. Now some of those same people seem to feel it is okay to enforce our borders. What is the difference?
I have an idea…let’s treat these immigrants like we should treat ALL immigrants. Legally. Let them apply for citizenship and if they aren’t criminals or drug dealers or human traffickers or any other undesirable AND are willing to live by and support the laws of our country, give them a green card so they can start working towards citizenship. Up until the past 40 years or so, that was how it was done. Even during the massive influx of immigrants back around the early 1900’s we didn’t let every person that showed up into the country.
@JLoon That is an excellent history lesson. Add to that recent earthquakes, floods, hurricanes that destroyed what little infrastructure I can understand why someone would want to leave.
I say this with tongue firmly implanted in my cheek. Maybe the best aid rich countries can give would be massive amounts of birth control devices. The fertility rate (births per woman) was over 6 in 1985. Now it is about 3. Get it down to 0.5. Poverty would be wiped out in a generation.
@YARNLADY how about directly requiring the billionaires to employ and house them?
Bllionaires who don’t like that idea could stop being billionaires. Maybe by giving their excess loot to support free housing for refugees.
They should all be let in. But unlike @seawulf575 I am a proponent of open borders. Free flow of goods and people are the fuel that drives the engines of economic success.
@Caravanfan So human traffickers and drug runners should be allowed to cross the border at will? Good to know where you stand.
@Caravanfan Drug abuse treatment alone costs us $600B annually. Are you taking any of that money?
@seawulf575 They are criminals and should be arrested and prosecuted like any other criminals. You are using what is called in logical fallacy arguments “Straw man fallacy”. A classic example, if I may add.
@Caravanfan But entering the country illegally is a crime as well. And if you are supporting open borders you are trying to support these known criminals from entering the country and then saying we should treat them as criminals AFTER they have entered this country and started their damage. But then $600B does support the engine of economic success for doctors at least.
@seawulf575 Sigh. Make immigration completely legal then it’s no longer illegal. The difference between closed border conservatives like you and open border free market conservatives like me is that you see immigrants as a threat. I see them as an opportunity.
@Caravanfan your arguments are flawed severely. You claim I am using a straw man fallacy. Are you then saying that there is no human trafficking or drug smuggling going on along our southern border? Or are you saying that some is okay? Have you, as an ER physician, ever had to treat someone overdosing on illegal drugs? Ever have any of them die? Are you okay with that? You get indignant if someone dares to say masks are useless for Covid because you lost a patient, why are drugs any different? But with open borders, you are all for allowing the drugs and human trafficking to happen without any challenge. How do you justify that?
@seawulf575 Um…let’s see.
No, no, not an ER physician, yes, no, apples and oranges, answered it already.
Wait…not an ER physician. So all those times you talked about someone showing up in the ER that you had to intubate were….what? And even without that, you’ve never had to deal with anyone dealing with drug addiction? How about venereal disease? How about measles since that is also making a comeback thanks to people entering the country illegally? How about any of the other negative health issues that come with all of that? Are you claiming those don’t exist too?
Or maybe you’d rather I answer in the same smarmy way you do. You do admit drugs and human trafficking occur so your strawman argument was bogus. You say none is okay but you want open borders which is ignorant. We just addressed the ER physician thing, but even without it the question of your dealings with drug addict still remains,. Good to know you’ve never seen one die and apparently you don’t care if they do. Masks and drug deaths are apples and oranges to you, yet according to you only the deaths by Covid matter. And no, you really haven’t been fully honest with your answers. You have tried to dodge at every turn.
@seawulf575 ICU, yes, lol yes, no, huh?, not relevant. (first post)
@seawulf575 no, no, huh?, no, didn’t say that. yes. no, yes I have, no. (second post)
Feed clothe, and find them a safe place .
Process and help those that one can.
Children without parents or an adult with them should be taken in and cared for.
Negotiate with other countries tht may assist as well.
Today ( an hour ago) read an article that they will be processed and some sent back by airplane to Haiti…I think that since that is what they were running from that they should have to option of going to assylum elsewhere with the help of authorities , U.S. and / or other countires.
One day this could happen to any of us and how would you expect the response to be towards you?
Humanitarian Aid should be sent pronto!
@LuckyGuy Around the time of the bad earthquake that happened about ten years ago in Haiti there was a lot of attention on the country. I saw an interview back then with a woman from an organization that educates women on birth control and I think also provided free birth control. The country is mostly Christian, and among Christians the majority are Catholic, and she seemed to indicate they had some cooperation from the priests not to promote having lots of babies. I’m assuming the church was still anti-birth control, but at least maybe they weren’t telling people to make siblings for their children.
@Caravanfan Understood. You want to claim open borders because it is currently gauche, but you really don’t want to admit there are negatives to that viewpoint.
@seawulf575 I didn’t say there were not negatives, but I feel the positives far outweigh the negatives. As I said, you see immigrants as threats and I see them as opportunities. I choose optimism and capitalism over fear and protectionism. Shalom.
@Caravanfan I don’t see immigrants as a threat. I see open borders as the threat because that allows all sorts of negatives into this country. It basically eliminates this country as well. Maybe you’ve never had to deal with the negatives up close and personal, but I can tell you they impact far more than just the person entering the country illegally. Every time a person gets hooked on drugs that enter this country illegally it impacts that person and everyone around them. When they die from an overdose their families are left trying to put the pieces back together. But hey, as long as you get your leftist dream I guess it’s worth it, eh? But let me ask, how many people have to have their lives destroyed or be put into modern day slavery before you consider it not outweighing your glorious economic opportunities?
If you really think I’m a leftist, then you really don’t have me pegged at all and have not been paying attention.
@Caravanfan: “I choose optimism and capitalism over fear and protectionism.”
@seawulf575: “But hey, as long as you get your leftist dream I guess it’s worth it, eh?”
Cue the clown music.
@Caravanfan Huh. How can you expound every single leftist ideal, support every initiative by the left, and then claim to not be a leftist? Yeah, I must be the one that is off base here.
But I notice you didn’t actually answer the question of how many lives have to be ruined before it is too many for you.
@product Soooo….you are another that truly believes that open borders will not bring more drugs and human trafficking to this country? Are you really going there?
@seawulf575 Anyone who has read @Caravanfan’s answers on political Q’s over the last ten years would know he most certainly is not a leftist. He’s also not an ideologue.
So, if we expanded our immigration laws so many more people could come in and tightened up our border with background checks so we had more records of people, you would be fine with anyone migrating to the US. You’re just worried about the crime is that right? Not the average immigrant. What about cultural problems in our country like the gangs we already have and people addicted to drugs without foreign influence? My MIL always says drugs are brought over the border because there is demand here.
@Caravanfan: “ I choose optimism and capitalism over fear and protectionism.”
@seawulf575: “But hey, as long as you get your leftist dream I guess it’s worth it, eh?”
@product Yet the discussion was Open Borders. Leftist dream.
@seawulf575 – The question was about 12,000 Haitians trying to shelter under a bridge between the Texas/Mexico border.
The “discussion” you’re having is something else…really.
@JLeslie If you go back and review, I have Always supported legal immigration. That allows us to ensure people are who they say they are, that they aren’t known criminals, that they aren’t smuggling drugs and humans into our nation, and that we can actually control the numbers of people we have in this country. I do NOT support illegal immigration and certainly not open borders, both of which result in more and more drugs and human trafficking being brought into this country. And as long as we have people suggesting such things, we will have people that want to seek a better life putting their lives in jeopardy to come here on the hopes they can get into the country illegally.
We have always had drugs and people smuggled into this country. Well, not always, just for the past 50 or 60 years. But when the attitude of the politicians is to not worry about the border security, it goes up. When we don’t adequately enforce our borders, it goes up. It wouldn’t go down if you suddenly had open borders. If we started actually forcing people to enter this country legally, the free flow of crime would slow way down.
Your MIL is probably right. Since there is a demand, there will always be a supply. That might be part of the “capitalism” @Caravanfan was supporting…I don’t know. But it isn’t a legal commodity. It isn’t a harmless commodity. And if you kill the source, the demand will slowly go away. Compare our reaction to Covid with our reaction to drugs. Drugs kill over 50,000 people each year and have for more than 40 years. That doesn’t count the murders that occur due to drug dealers and cartels. And it doesn’t mention all the collateral lives that are ruined (the families of the users). Yet we don’t want to even look at it. Meanwhile we want to demand people get treated for Covid. The discrepancy in our reaction to this is staggering to me.
Open Borders are endorsed by the conservative Cato Instutute. If you think the Cato Institute is leftist, then really there is nothing I can do to help convince you any more.
@Caravanfan – @seawulf575 is very much aware that there are those that support open borders from the right and the left. He’s well aware of the schtick he’s performing here.
@seawulf575 The US has had a war on drugs in one way or another for as long as I can remember. To say we don’t look at it isn’t true. There are domestic sources, it doesn’t all come over the border. Both supply and demand need to be addressed. It is a cultural and societal problem more than anything.
We don’t do much when 50k die a year, think about it. 50k die from flu in many many years and we don’t tell people to stay home or mask up. The reason more was done for covid is because it looked like it was going to be possibly 2 million if nothing was done. We would have easily had been over a million people dead in 2020 if covid had been left to run wild. There are thresholds that get crossed for alarm bells to be pulled.
Republicans, I know you say you are not a Republican, in recent years have said crossing a border illegally is the same as killing someone. Like all laws are the same. They have said over and over that people crossing a border without papers are criminals. If you are saying a simple piece of processing and paperwork is all you are talking about then you might be very close to in line with @Caravanfan.
@product Of course it’s supported by many on the left as well. I’m not an idiot. My point is that it is not exclusively a left vs. right issue.
^ I’m not calling you an idiot. Ugh. I am supporting you in this conver…. forget it.
@product “He’s well aware of the schtick he’s performing here.”
My mistake. I misconstrued this.
^ thanks. I was just pointing out that you’re defending yourself against someone who knows that you are a right-wing libertarian. He thinks it’s clever to accuse you of being a leftist, but he’s really just embarrassing himself.
@product I don’t think so. I think @seawulf575 sees open borders as left wing policy period. He can correct us himself though.
@product And apologies again.
I actually don’t think of myself as “right wing’. I’m somewhat left of center on many issues, but right of center on others. But right wingers like @seawulf575 get pissed at me but so do left wingers like Tom (who I’m not sure you know and isn’t on the site at this point). I can pretty much piss off anybody. It’s one of my superpowers. Honestly, if I’m going to label myself it would be a “Classical Liberal”.
@Caravanfan – Only meant “right-wing” in the economic sense (US libertarian). Also, that Tom seems like an insufferable a**hole.
@seawulf575 – Is @JLeslie correct? Were you unaware that there is a right-wing capitalist justification for open borders? Now that you are aware, are you willing to drop the whole “leftist” thing?
@Caravanfan and I might share some views on borders, but we come at these positions from very different ideologies and reasoning.
I think of @Caravanfan as an Independent not a Libertarian l’m not sure what label he gives himself. I never try to guess ahead of time what position he will have on an issue. He isn’t just blindly following along with talking points of the day or some political leader.
@product It all makes sense now, lol! Thanks. Good to see you back! I missed you. That really is kind of hilarious. You’re right, we come from different POVs, but I’m guessing that we agree far more than we disagree.
@Caravanfan The CATO institute isn’t a right wing organization…you do know that, right? It is a Libertarian think tank. They have some ideas that are leaning right and many that are leaning left. Open borders is one of those. But then, as I cited above, Socialists support open borders. If you try telling me Socialists aren’t leftists, well then there’s nothing I can do to help convince you any more.
@seawulf575 Where did I write that Cato was a right wing orgnization?
@product Tom is okay by me. He and I have had our kerfuffles over the years but I am convinced that if we were ever to meet IRL we would heartily buy each other beers and have a great evening. :-)
I wonder if Biden scores points with Republicans deporting the Haitians, or if they have twisted that into some sort of horrible left wing action somehow?
@Demosthenes – Right. No surprise.
And as the news story on your link makes clear, Mexican authorities are also detaining & deporting all remaining migrants who are illegally on their side of the border. It’s been a painful experience for all involved.
But in terms of what you asked in your question, this was the only solution possible under existing US immigration rules and diplomatic agreements with both Mexico & Hati. On the positive side it provides direct temporary aid to those in need of food, shelter, and emergency medical care. The inhumane conditions under the Del Rio bridge will end. But the negative results are no improvement to US immigration policies that could relieve tensions at the Southern border.
Learning lessons from this incident is crucial, but unlikely as long as we keep puking up the same useless political arguments. What was seen here is only a small example of what most experts predict will happen within the next 15 years, as long term disruption in temperature and rainfall cause massive crop failures and create millions of climate change refugees worldwide.
@JLeslie I can’t answer for Republicans, but I can say it makes no sense given his previous efforts on the Southern Border. Not to mention the rest of the Dems are silent on the issue. When confronted with the idea that not protecting the border leads to more criminal activities entering this country, the left goes crazy and fights every action designed to slow or stop the influx of illegal aliens. Now we have a bunch of Haitians coming across the border the Dems have fought to keep open and the Dems are Johnny-on-the-spot to deport them immediately. What is the difference? Haitians aren’t criminal enough? Are they too black?
I’d ‘Splain it to you but . . . your vision is not what the Democratic party is doing. Your vision is what Trump and the fright wingers told you to think.
Please, feel free to “Splain” it to me. I’d love to hear what you really believe. I’m laying money on it being exactly what CNN or MSNBC told you to believe.
Today, they set them free in the US.
@jca2 They did? I thought they deported them.
I just heard on MSNBC that some are being deported, and that thousands have been allowed to remain to apply for asylum.
@Caravanfan: Some were deported but the remainder, today, were allowed to leave the bridge and come into the US, and have to appear for hearings in the future.
This has been orchestrated. They are not being sent back….that’s another lie. They are being giving request (not order) to appear for a hearing in the future and then being bused or flown into the country.
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