What do you think the charges, if any, should be against Kyle Rittenhouse and why?
The jury and the case is still in session, but from what you’ve seen so far, what are your opinions on his actions and why? Do you believe him justified in what he did or not?
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Life in prison or death. He is obviously guilty. One of the men he killed was shot four times. That is not self defense!
I think he sees himself as some kind of superhero. someone who should be honored for what he did for society’s sake. I would think any vigilante would.
The actual charges would be specific to the area the crime was committed in, so my opinion on what the charges should be are not necessarily what the charges would be or could be. What is capital murder in one state may not meet the criteria for capital murder in another – murder in the 2nd or 3rd degree in one state will be different than in another state.
I definitely think he shouldn’t have left his house, wanted to be a tough guy vigilante, was getting his ass kicked and now is crying like a little bitch to elicit the sympathy of the jurors.
Premeditatded murder. He carried a loaded weapon with the full intent to shoot people dead.
I don’t know all the facts of the case, but if it’s true that he was being physically attacked prior to shooting these people, then he may very well have been justified. Unfortunately this case is more about “culture war” and which side you’re on. The more I talk to those on the right, the more they seem to reveal that they would want Rittenhouse to get off even if he hadn’t killed in self-defense, just because they want to see BLM/Antifa dead. The case isn’t about whether he should’ve been there or not, it’s about whether he was justified in using lethal force.
I don’t know if he’s guilty on murder. But if he is determined to be innocent then major cities will burn.
I haven’t had time to watch much of the trial but I am inclined to pre-meditated murder as well.
My opinion is that he placed himself in a position to kill or be killed intentionally.
Unfortunately his youth and passion overrode his common sense.
@Demosthenes Funny how only white supremacist sympathizers use the term “culture war” as if their “way of life” was under threat from other people expressing a desire for life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
@gondwanalon The Ahmaud Arbery killing trial, too. They better find those guys guilty.
Rittenhouse will likely not face any charges.
@jca2 They will find those guys guilty. There was no grey area in that case.
@Blackwater_Park: Rittenhouse has been charged with several crimes already. He is facing them in court now.
@jca2 Convictions is what I meant
He’s an immature little boy who wanted to be a big man and make a name for himself. Let him be treated like a big man and be convicted of the crime of murder. If he’s found innocent, it will likely be due in part to the judge’s obvious bias.
We have been watching this trial on court TV, my opinion has changed somewhat. I do think it was a jackass thing to do being there in the first place. I think he could have done a better job separating himself from danger but in the end I think this is siding on self defense but with some grey area. His friend who basically bought the gun for him is facing charges for the illegal purchase. There may be some for Rittenhouse but those are going to be adjacent to what he is facing now. Possessing a “long gun” is not illegal for his age so he may not even if his friend does.
@smudges: It might be more interesting if he is found not guilty, to have him live the rest of his life either being fearful and followed, and afraid of getting his ass kicked, or being under the protection of a Nazi or white supremacy group (and therefore, his life will be changed forever due to that).
@Blackwater_Park: I haven’t been following the trial but today, I put on Court TV around midday (Eastern time) and I saw that they were arguing that you can’t provoke an attack (which, supposedly Rittenhouse provoked the people who kicked his ass) and then claim self defense. I guess that will be argued later today.
That’s about all the defense has left. I did not see any heckling or provocation other than him being there. That’s not going to be enough unless they can show he was somehow inciting things.
You mean the prosecution, @Blackwater_Park?
I wasn’t really paying attention to it as I came in in the middle of the argument so I couldn’t really follow that well.
@Blackwater But an armed white boy is itself a bit of a provocation in a race riot isn’t it?
It’s an interesting case.
@smudges Agreed, the judge looks like he feels sorry for him which comes across weird, old white guy to young white guy.
That’s the grey area IMO. I’m not a lawyer but I think they would have to prove intent.
@jca2 you can’t provoke an attack and then claim self defense
That seems to be the very basis of “stand your ground”. You can have a gun and approach someone, provoke them, and if they respond or react in any way, you have a right to kill them. It’s BS.
@Blackwater_Park It’s not how it’s supposed to work, but it seems to be how some of these cases end up going. I guess the controversy will be over who is the instigator.
About the only charge I know about that he should be found guilty on is the misdemeanor gun charge. He was a 17 year old in possession of a gun. No arguments there. There is a law against that in Kenosha so he should be found guilty of that. Everything else is hyped up garbage designed to appease a radical left base.
@seawulf575 I don’t understand your feelings on this. You and I are conservatives, I have guns and presume you do.
He left armed to go defend police in a riot is my understanding. I’ve always been pro-police and yes I was very upset at liberal areas for telling police to not strike back.
But you and I didn’t leave our homes, armed and ready to rumble during violent protests. Why are you cutting him so much slack?
Genuinely curious.
@KNOWITALL Do I think he was foolish? Absolutely. Do I think he went there with the express purpose of shooting some rioters? Not at all. He took a weapon for protection. Unfortunately for him, it is illegal for him to own a gun. But look at all the evidence, look at all the video, look at everything. He got there, realized what a shit show it was and was trying to get away from the rioters. He was a kid who put himself into a foolish and dangerous position. He wasn’t the first to ever do that and I’ll guarantee he won’t be the last.
He is charged with basically first degree murder of two people and felonious assault with intent to kill on a third. Given all I have seen and heard so far, he was defending himself from idiots that were attacking the guy with the gun, hoping to steal the gun from him. So I don’t think he is guilty of all the murder charges…I truly believe they are self defense. But I do believe he needs to be punished for the crime he actually committed which was owning or possessing the gun as a minor.
Do you really think he went there to shoot people? If so, then why was he continuously running away? Why didn’t he just find a convenient cover and start blasting away? I can’t see any scenario where he was purposely there to shoot people.
@seawulf575 I think he may have left home with intentions of causing harm, yes. When he got there he saw he was outnumbered and unwelcome and fled. In the process he probably did have to defend himself at that point.
You have to ask if those deaths would have occurred without his direct actions. I think that answer is no.
@KNOWITALL I think you have to ask if those deaths would have occurred without the direct aggression from the rioters. I think the answer is no. It is clear he was trying to avoid confrontation and they were pushing for it. At what point, in your mind, are you allowed to defend yourself? Not what you would do ahead of time or what should have been done…when would you feel it was time to defend yourself? Let’s say you had a gun and you were a citizen of Kenosha. Would you be justified if a group of rioters started trying to burn your home? Would wait until they started chasing and attacking you? What if they pulled a gun on you? Consider for a moment that the rioters did not know that he was from 20 miles away. They didn’t care. All they saw was someone by himself that they thought they could overpower.
Repeatedly on the videos you can hear someone say “Look! He’s got a gun! Let’s get it!”. So do you truly believe that if given the chance to just give up his gun that things would have been better? Think he wouldn’t have been beaten? He was beaten when he HAD the gun. I think I would ask you why you are so adamantly defending the aggressors here?
Why was he showing his gun? Playing tough guy? “Look at me, I’m a tough guy, I have a gun!”
@seawulf575 I’m not in any way condoning the violence by either party.
Would you have told your son it was fine to go to a race riot armed? I don’t think so.
@jca2 It was a rifle. Kinda hard to keep it concealed.
@KNOWITALL Would I have told my son to go to a race riot armed? Interesting question. Yes and no. I wouldn’t have gone to a riot unless I had some skin in the game…my home, my business, etc. If I did have skin in the game, I would most certainly have taken a gun. In fact, there was a time during the George Floyd riots that there were going to be protests in our nearby town. I told my wife and daughter to avoid the area if they could. My daughter had to go near the protest area, but not into it. I told her to take her stun gun with her, just in case things blew up while she was at school and she had to drive through it to get home. So in that case yes, I told my child to take a weapon to a potential race riot.
You are a gun owner. Are you really saying that if you were going into a potentially violent area you wouldn’t be armed?
As for telling your child to go to the riot, did Rittenhouse’s mom or dad actually tell him to go help?
@seawulf575 You told her to take a non-lethal weapon. To me, that’s a huge difference and the right decision.
And it waa 30 minutes from Kyle’s home, he was not defending his property. He sought it out.
We’ll agree to disagree on this one.
You and I both know you don’t pull a gun you have no intention of using. Rule #1.
He drove 30 minutes which usually makes it pre-meditated.
He has no medical background.
@KNOWITALL He drove 30 minutes to get there. Ok. So did Anthony Huber. Rosenbaum came all the way from Waco Tx. Grosskreutz split the difference and had to drive about an hour. So I guess you could say they all came there to do wrong, eh?
As for pulling the gun, you are absolutely correct. But the actual rule is you don’t point it at someone unless you intend to use it. Carrying a gun is FAR different that pointing it at someone. Rittenhouse had a rifle. You can’t put a rifle in a holster. You can carry it at arms, with the business end pointing away from everyone. Which, from what I saw on the videos, is what he was doing. Until he was attacked.
Premeditation means he went there with the express purpose to shoot people. None of his actions show that to be a true statement and there is zero evidence to say he did that. And by your own citation, his intent was to protect property and give medical assistance. That shoots a big hole in the premeditation theory. Face it…he isn’t the bloodthirsty killer the left is trying to make him out to be. He did not shoot anyone until they attacked him first. That isn’t premeditation…that is self-defense. He was even trying to run away from them until they overtook him.
And as for guns, Grosskreutz had one as well. He was carrying it concealed when his concealed carry permit was expired. I saw one article that shows he was arrested in 2015 with possessing a firearm as a felon. So how did he have a gun at all? And by his own admission under oath in court, he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse first, before Rittenhouse pointed his rifle and shot him. That is the definition of self-defense by Rittenhouse.
I have to wonder why you are so adamant about painting Rittenhouse as some out of control terrorist when all the evidence shows that is not the case.
@seawulf575 I think if Americans keep justifying bad behavior in regards to the 2nd, you’ll screw the rest of us.
@KNOWITALL And if Americans keep justifying bad behavior in regards to rioters and the like, we screw everyone. That is the point. There was a riot going on. Rioters were looting, burning down buildings, beating anyone that stood in their way. Yet when they attacked a kid with a gun, suddenly they are the poor peaceful protestors that the big bad gun nut shot. At some point, sanity says you have to admit that the rioters were criminals and prompted ALL the violence, including attacking the kid with the gun.
By not holding them responsible for all the problems they caused, by not denouncing them entirely, we are urging even more events like this. Look at the recent history of rioting in this country. It is an organized thing. In Kenosha, there were 175 rioters arrested. More than 100 of them were from out of town. There were food trucks and EMTs traveling with the rioters. This is not random unrest…it is organized and destructive. Look at the CHOP in Seattle. The “protesters” took over entire city blocks and did whatever they wanted. They set up “security” scams for any businesses, shaking them down for money. They shot two teenagers, 16 and 14, that dared to drive near the boundary of their area. And they were not the only ones murdered. Yet no one was held responsible. Talk about sending a message!!
While I see your point, kyle made a conscious decision to wade into that melee with a weapon. I don’t feel sorry for him.
I’m going to go watch my Chiefs, have a nice night.
Why not just ask people if they are a democrat or republican since almost every opinion people have these days are based on that?
@SquirrelEStuff That’s a common misconception. People in my red state are not on this kid’s side on this case.
Closing arguments are full of fascinating facts.
@SquirrelEStuff If you follow the case closely it’s not so cut and dry. It’s pretty complicated and I’m still not sure how I feel about some of it. The prosecution’s closing arguments so far have been as strong as they could make them but not even hearing the defense I think that since the gun charges were tossed the kid is going to walk free.
@KNOWITALL Sigh, This is tough. I don’t think he was there looking for a fight. I think he was incredibly naive and stupid for being there in any capacity especially carrying an AR15 as that’s an act of intimidation and just set off the “protesters.” I think the political culture that has welled up around these protests was projected to him by their circle of friends as needing to be some sort of saviors and somewhat justified it to their little group. That fed his fragile ego, his need to belong and it felt ok for him to be there because others were. A 17 year old male is in no way mature enough to be in a situation like that especially with zero training. Once they were in his face threatening him then logic left the building and adrenaline took over. I think he should be found guilty of a lesser charge and do a little time even though it’s shaping up legally that he’ll probably walk. .
If the mom drove him down there, I’m surprised she wasn’t charged with neglect or lack of supervision in Family Court (child protective charges). What reasonable mom would take her teenage son to a night time protest and leave him in the middle of that melee? I am sure she feels guilty now.
@jca2 I don’t think she did anything illegal though other than be a shitty mom. What would they charge her with?
@Blackwater_Park: Family Court charges are child protective charges. Like I said, neglect or lack of supervision or whatever it is called in the state they live in.
I do feel the blood is mostly on her hands to be honest.
@Blackwater_Park Agree completely, with all of that. That’s my take away from everything I’ve read about this case. Unfortunately because it’s just become another means of division, the only options for many seem to be “he’s a hero” or “he’s a monster”.
@Blackwater_Park: I know. If my teenager wanted to attend a protest around midnight with an AR-15, I’d say hell no. No fucking way.
I would not let them go at all, AR-15 or not. It’s not something for teenagers in any capacity.
So now the judge threw out the weapons possession charge prior to closing arguments. So now the prosecution has to prove their over-charged case to have any impact on Rittenhouse. And based on all the testimony I have seen, the witnesses agree it was all self-defense. It IS possible the jury finds him guilty of some much reduced charge. I believe the judge gave them that latitude.
It will be interesting.
His life is forever changed, no matter what the verdict.
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