Is the Omicron variant really worth all the hype?

Yes.
The WHO deems it a variant of concern (rather than one of interest).
Thats enough to hype it (if only to get the responsible majority to be aware (again) of the necessity of the basic measures, and to give the less responsible/ignorant/stubborn/extreme religious types a third/fourth chance to do the good thing and make this thing an endemic ASAP.

too early to tell. You can’t draw conclusions on 4 days worth of data.

Doctors in the WHO and CDC think so. “Variant of concern !”

Three weeks from now it could cause a different formulation of the vaccines. Omicron has 50 mutations , making more transmissible, more likely to avoid antibodies from vaccinations and COVID-19 survivors and more likely to kill.

Read an article, don’t remember where, that Omicron maybe 10 times more likely to cause COVID-19 than current variants.

I’m quite worried about it. I hope I’m worried for nothing.

Based on what I’ve heard about the nature of how it mutated, and what those mutations do to limit the immune systems ability to defend against it, I’d say better safe than sorry.

Anyway, if a really bad strain shows up we need to be quick to react. If this is a false alarm, then we can use the situation to strengthen our response to a real deadly outbreak.

Jeezus! We all know you’re anti-vax, okay? But stop trying to seem rational about it.

You keep citing sources without fully understanding them, like some law school dropout looking for loopholes in your cable contract.

According to your article, here’s what South African doctor Angelique Coetzee who first detected the new variant actually says about it:

“She told the publication: ‘What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease.’ ”
I think that’s more than just hype. But I’m sure you disagree…

Back when I was on the cruise ship, I couldn’t believe the statements coming out about Covid. They were saying it had a 4% mortality rate (a number that didn’t take asymptomatic patients into account). I mocked the CDC a bit, but I still understood the urgency.
We are in uncharted territory. Give them a break.

High mutation rate should scare you. The fact that it doesn’t says a lot about your ability to comprehend risk let alone make rational assessments of it.

Yes. It is further proof that mutations are occurring in people harboring the disease. An unvaxed person can get it and give the virus time to reinvent itself. It might even reinvent itself into something requiring a new vaccines.

@elbanditoroso “too early to tell. You can’t draw conclusions on 4 days worth of data.” That is exactly my point. What we have so far is that we know it spreads quickly and apparently has mild symptoms. Yet the world is going crazy. And even the vaccine manufacturers don’t know if the vaccines are going to work against it, but the suggested actions? Get vaccinated! It just seems like there is a whole lot of wild action being taken over something that doesn’t really seem that threatening.

@Tropical_Willie Yes, it spreads quickly. But what are the symptoms? Look at it this way, if we had a flu bug running around that gave you a stuffy nose, would you consider that a threat? Even if it spread to everyone very quickly?

@Ltryptophan Based on the data I’ve seen, it is true the immune system might have a hard time fighting this one off, but they say for the exact same reason the vaccines might not work either. So why push the vaccines?

It is a fair statement to say a really bad strain might be needed so we need to make sure we can be prepared if needed. So this could be a dry run, so to speak. But I’m still having a hard time understanding the push for vaccines (that even the manufacturers don’t know will work). The travel bans were the best test…to see if we can isolate it when it first starts. But apparently that is a moot point because it is already spreading throughout the world.

@JLoon Of course we have to worry about older people with comorbidities. But we have had flu season for as far back as I can remember. And by what the doctor said about the Omicron symptoms it isn’t as bad as a flu. And we don’t shut down the world for flu season. She also said she hasn’t seen any elderly, unhealthy patients. So her statement is prudence that I would agree with, but it isn’t fact.

You say I’m citing sources without fully understanding them. That is always a possibility. So educate me. What in those articles really disagrees with what I am asking? I know you don’t like me because I am the voice against the crowd. I get it. But questioning things is what humans do.

@gorillapaws Yes, you are probably right. When I evaluate risk I look at many factors. The high mutation rate is one. But the impact of the disease is another. The impact to the entire community is another. The need for medical treatment is yet another. The fact that you only look at the high mutation rate says a lot about your ability to make rational decisions about it.

. . . and your point is ?

You don’t believe in the CDC, WHO, Dr Fauci and President Biden.

But you do believe in Tucker “Swanson Pie” Carlson.

It’s a new disease. No one knows what its impact will be in the real world. In the meantime, it is sensible to take precautions.

PS an anagram of Omicron is moronic.

How exactly is the world “going crazy”?
The news outlets?
The WHO (and the nation’s health services)?
The governing bodies, that based on their specialists, come out and inform us once again?
The farmaceuticals that tell us what kind of challenges they are facing (again)?
The care workers that maybe, once again, come on news outlets to tell us they can’t keep up anymore, that they’re empty, and tired of people that, while in ICU, don’t want treatment, because “it’s just a cold”, or “not real”?

So far, in my social group, I’ve not encountered people that went crazy.
Only people that (some) talk about it, and then continue with what they were doing.

So even if it’s much milder the fact that it’s apparently 500x more transmissible should terrify you. If that’s really the case it will be swift and the sheer numbers getting infected all at the same time could be catastrophic even if on average less people go to the hospital.

I think I’ve seen nearly everyone here try to explain risk analysis to @seawulf575 more than a handful of times, yet he really doesn’t understand it – or refuses to.

He seems angry with private power/corporations for assessing risk. He is angry with governments with doing the same. He is once again complaining that his religion (market capitalism) is failing him. He wants large corporations to serve up “news” to people, but doesn’t like the content. He wants governments to serve the interest of private power, but when they do (by trying to limit a very plausible global catastrophe), he objects.

So, let’s take a look at the current scenario. Yes, we do not have a good idea what omicron means for everyone. Yes, there are some precautions taking place. That is what we should be doing. If you wait until all of the data is in, it is too late. And one of these “too late” scenarios is very capable of being a complete catastrophe. So, the most rational response has to be as much caution as possible when we discover a new variant. And yes, the number of mutations really does matter.

I understand that you would really like your economic systems to ignore risk and just go for it (meaning, ignore a global pandemic in hopes that they can cash in before it all goes to shit). But I don’t think that’s how markets work. And I certainly don’t think you’re going to be able to convince the world that there is any benefit in doing so.

That said, I understand that this whole thing is frustrating and very depressing. I have little hopes for my children, and I don’t see how any of this ends well. But pretending that not doing anything (travel restrictions, vaccinations, masking, etc) will somehow make this all go away is silly.

Yes. Omicron and any future mutation(s) could mean the end of mankind.
(I suspect this post will be/ might be modded for being too real, too honest.)
But that is only my opinion.

@kritiper How’s that?
Modded because of “too honest, too real”?
Your post, or the whole thread/question?
Modded by whom, and why?

while @kritiper is technically correct, his comments are a bit alarmist and overstated..

Any mutation of any virus -> not just Omicron, but the flu, the common cold, polio, rabies, chicken pox, hepatitis, smallpox, ebola, HIV-AIDS -> could theoretically mean the end of mankind. Not just COVID virus.

I did say “could.” Not would.
@rebbel A post I made some time back to a question. Removed and privately commented on by two mods.

@elbanditoroso You want “overstated?” Mankind is a germ, a parasite, a cancer. In the movie ZARDOZ, one character describes mankind as “a plague of people.”

Oh, okay, that sounds a bit strange thing to happen, @kritiper (not saying that I don’t believe it, obviously).
Was that post an answer concerning Corona?

@product as usual, you have no idea what I am about. But in true leftist fashion you want to ascribe my thoughts to me and then treat them with the disdain you created them with. Here’s a thought for you, because you don’t ever really want to hear my actual thoughts but really only want to make them up: My issue is that the reaction to the threat is way overblown and the reaction could be far more damaging than the actual threat.

Example: The Covid vaccines have killed people and have had severely adverse reactions with many more. That doesn’t seem to be enough to stop the government from pushing them. But now we have a variant that has no real similarity to the original strain, except it still shows up on a Covid test. The symptoms are extremely mild and don’t even require medical treatment. The Pharmaceutical companies that make the vaccines have no idea if they will be effective or not. As of last Saturday, they were just starting to evaluate that.

So you have a disease that really presents no serious health issues to the majority of the world, that has no solid information if current treatments for a similar disease will work at all. Yet the immediate reaction is to push vaccines on everyone. Vaccines that have no indication will work at all, yet still bring adverse reactions with them. Why? It certainly isn’t following science. It isn’t even really following common sense.

As for the economic impacts, you already have many countries that have stopped travel from Africa. That happened almost immediately, even though the initial reports were that it was very mild symptoms. So let’s assume that “some precautions should be taken”. Okay, travel was stopped. Yet every one of those countries either already has found cases inside their own borders or fully believe they already have cases. So what good did the “precautions” do? None. The disease already spread. So all the precautions are doing is causing economic harm to the world.

Please note that nowhere in any of these ideas does capitalism come into play. Economic damage is a reality impacting communist, socialist, and capitalistic countries all the same. Yeah, you might stop a couple people, infected with a basically harmless virus, from entering your country, but you are destroying lives in the process.

I have cited endless studies and other official reports that show that masking is useless, that vaccinations continually fall short of the mark they were supposed to hit, and that in many cases natural immunity is far better than vaccinations and is completely ignored by those that want you vaccinated. It is very frustrating that when confronted by facts, so many people follow like lemmings the people that are purposely ignoring those same facts.

Sources “The Covid vaccines have killed people and have had severely adverse reactions with many more.”

” My issue is that the reaction to the threat is way overblown and the reaction could be far more damaging than the actual threat.” . . . and you medical degree is from . . . . maybe Trump University ! !

“So you have a disease that really presents no serious health issues to the majority of the world, that has no solid information if current treatments for a similar disease will work at all”
. . . tell that to the relatives of soon to be 800,00 dead in USA.

“Vaccines that have no indication will work at all, yet still bring adverse reactions with them” . . . . . once again your medical degree is missing something

“I have cited endless studies and other official reports that show that masking is useless, that vaccinations continually fall short of the mark they were supposed to hit, and that in many cases natural immunity is far better than vaccinations and is completely ignored by those that want you vaccinated.” . . . was Tucker “Swanson Pie’ Carlson your source?

Even the the other Fox News hosts are bailing because of his lies and conspiracy theories he has no connection to rthe real world.

I won’t ask for what your advance degree is in . . . . . !

An article about a kid doesn’t mean much of anything to me. So far COVID19, all variants, is mild in most kids.

I have not kept up at all with this new variant, I figure new variant or not I need to be prudent.

I am interested to watch data on illness and death rates and vaccine efficacy with this variant.

Any articles regarding thousands of people all ages vaccinated and unvaccinated and how they are weathering the new variant? That would be more meaningful to me.

Let’s put this in naval terms, since @seawulf575 is apparently a former Navy guy.

You are on patrol on your destroyer. You have a report of a warship from a different country’s navy, not sure whose navy, but pretty sure it is not an ally of the US.

As captain, do you dismiss the potential danger saying “aww, we saw some ships like this last year and there was no threat, so let’s forget about it!”?

Or do you take it seriously, thinking “there is the potential that this is nothing, but we really don’t know, so we need to be alert and ready to defend ourselves in case it is something to worry about”.?

Although I may have the naval nomenclature wrong, the principle is really that simple.

@Tropical_Willie “Sources “The Covid vaccines have killed people and have had severely adverse reactions with many more.”” https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/11/19/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vaccines-through-11-12-2021/

”” My issue is that the reaction to the threat is way overblown and the reaction could be far more damaging than the actual threat.” . . . and you medical degree is from _. . . . maybe Trump University_ ! !” An idiotic statement, but pretty typical for you. No, I’m going on the connection of dots that the symptoms seen from Omicron present no real threat to most people, however the sociological and economical damage done by the knee-jerk reactions do present a real and present danger. Not to mention the aforementioned damage from the vaccines you are always pushing. By the way, where did you get your medical degree from? You dodged that question the last time you started this child’s game of yours.

“tell that to the relatives of soon to be 800,00 dead in USA.” Omicron (which is the topic of this discussion) has killed 800,000 (I added the appropriate number of zeroes for you after the comma)? SOURCES!!!!!! As far as I can tell, it hasn’t killed anyone in any country.

“was Tucker “Swanson Pie’ Carlson your source?

Even the the other Fox News hosts are bailing because of his lies and conspiracy theories he has no connection to rthe real world.” Once again, you are trying to attribute something to me that is not realistic and then condemn me for your claim. Ignorance. If you go back and look I stated I have cited scientific studies. You know this to be true. They have come from the CDC, the WHO, the NIH and several others. And every time I do, fools, such as yourself, try to ignore the science by yelling at me to follow the science.

“I won’t ask for what your advance degree is in” I’ll give you this as a sign of possible improvement on your part. Usually you just attribute something idiotic to me or my thinking or my life (none of which you know anything about) and then rant about it for a while.

@elbanditoroso In navy terms, you are always at a state of readiness because things can change quickly. But to use your analogy and tie it back to what is being done here…you are the captain on a navy vessel. You get a report of a warship from some other country but the report doesn’t say whose it is. If your reaction was as sane and thought out as what is being done with Omicron, you think to yourself “We’ve had naval wars before and it was a warship that we battled. We better charge this one and shoot our guns at them!!” You don’t really know anything about the ship but you are sure, beyond any doubt, that attacking is the most prudent thing to do. Of course you could be killing innocent people, you could be starting a war that would kill millions more, you could be doing all sorts of negative things, but because you heard about a war with a ship before your course is the right one.

OR you could even look at it as you get that report and you zoom over to look at the ship. You get there and realize that yes, it is indeed a warship, but its guns are mostly inoperable and it is in pretty dingy shape. It MIGHT be able to hurt someone but so far it doesn’t look like it. But it has a great engine so it can zoom all over the sea…still not being able to hurt anyone. So you decide the most prudent course of action is to perform an act of war because you just don’t know and it is prudent to just kill them, even though they haven’t done any serious damage to anyone.

THAT is what is being done by all the knee-jerk reactions going on.

@seawulf575 go hang out at Qanon website or are you still waiting for JFK Jr in Dallas? ?

Hahaha, @seawulf575, you sound like all those people who bitch and whine because the storm predicted by the meteorologists wasn’t as bad as they said it might be. Cuz, you know, it all turns out so much better when you’re not aware of the possible consequences and don’t take any precautionary measures.

The truth of the matter is no scientist actually knows how bad the Omicron variant may be to those who contract it.

Though it is not a nice way of looking at it they actually need more people who contract this variant to be able to make a decision as to how dangerous it may be.

Some scientist do think that the Omicron is not as bad as the Delta variant.

It has been said that those who have had their 2 vaccinations are not protected against Omicron but I have seen nothing about those who have received their third, their booster.

It also appears that those more susceptible are the younger people but I am wondering if it is because most of the older generation has had their booster which may give them more protection

I don’t see a lot of “hype.” I see concern from public health officials and politicians.

Everyone that I have heard on the radio or TV has stated that we don’t yet know quite what to expect. Yes, borders are shut as far as flights from south Africa and other precautions have been taken, but if precautions weren’t taken and then the variant turned out to be terrible, the politicians who did nothing would be blamed. “You did nothing and now my Aunt Tilly is dead.” Therefore, precautions have to be taken until we know better what’s going on.

That’s why I would never want to be a politician. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

@Poseidon Most of Africa has not been vaccinated. But all the cases they found were of younger (<65) people. But I also gave a citation that even the pharmaceutical companies that make the vaccines don’t know if they will work against this variant. If they don’t work, then getting a booster or 10 boosters won’t make it better. The Moderna CEO just came out with a statement that said his scientist say it doesn’t look good for having an effective vaccine for Omicron for many months, at the earliest.

The upside, and the point of my question, is that the symptoms appear to be very mild, not requiring hospitalization. So even if is spreads quickly, if it isn’t really dangerous, is it worth all the hype about how dangerous it is…especially the calls to get vaccinated to protect against it.

Again, a small sample of young people doesn’t mean very much. We’ll see what happens in the next month or so. Perfect timing for the virus to spread with the holiday season getting into full swing.

Science and statistics baffle some people.

It’s too early to tell !

@JLeslie That is exactly my point behind this question. All we have is what amounts to a pile of anecdotal evidence, but it all points to Omicron not being a huge threat. So why is there so much angst and fear being spread about it?

@Tropical_Willie That goes into it as well. The science at this point with Omicron consists of medical diagnoses that point to it not being a threat. So if it is too early to tell, why are there travel bans and calls for vaccinations with vaccines that the manufacturers say aren’t effective for this variant? Is that science and statistics?

Formula:

@seawulf575: “Is the Omicron variant really worth all the hype?”

[Everyone legitimately answers everything you could possibly need to know about why there is concern and the concept of risk, etc.]

@seawulf575: “So why is there so much angst and fear being spread about it?”

You can’t make this up. He’s likely serious. Really.

” The science at this point with Omicron consists of medical diagnoses that point to it not being a threat.” Sources please @seawulf575

People will die from it and that is NOT HYPE ! !

Oh and people that had COVID-19 and vaccinations will get it.

@seawulf575 While I see where you’re coming from a general lack of over-kill safety measures is why we are in this mess to begin with. Humanity is horrible about predicting, remembering and preparing for disaster. Our guard is down all over the place. The truth will come out about this variant once we have had time to study it. Until then, based on what we already know COVID is capable of, we should cast an evil eye on anything new with destructive potential. Such is the case here on a new, highly transmissible variant that will likely evade our vaccination programs to a degree. A pandemic worse than this WILL happen at some point in the not too distant future. Humanity should consider this as a dry run and that wakeup call should be answered so we are ready for when the real disaster presents itself as it has repeatedly throughout history. All it takes is a variant that is highly transmissible, deadly to the majority of the population but kills silently and slowly. We are lucky it’s as mild as it is.

@Tropical_Willie: you should know by now he doesn’t usually provide links, and if he does they will likely have the word “freedom” or “patriot” in the name, nothing legitimate.

@Tropical_Willie Read the original question. The citations are there.

@Blackwater_Park If you remember, there was a stern resistance to the over-kill safety measures. When Trump instituted a travel ban after only 102 cases were found in the US, he was called a xenophobe and a racist. Meanwhile many of those creating that resistance were urging people to gather together as normal in normal places and times (See Nancy Pelosi and Mayor DeBlasio). These same people fought against the vaccines. And now they can’t spread fear enough and push vaccines enough. There is nothing scientific in any of the response that has happened…it has been almost 100% political. Fauci came the closest to using science when he told people not to worry about masks because they didn’t work. That was based on several Random Controlled Tests that had been conducted by the CDC, WHO and NIH. But that wasn’t what was wanted so suddenly the story changed to “Have to wear masks or you will kill others!!!”.

Now comes Omicron. We all know about Covid. We know what the symptoms are (or could be). But 100% of the patients that were found with Omicron required no hospitalization and had minor symptoms.

I understand the idea of prudence…I really do. But honestly, either we follow the science or we follow the politics because you can’t do both. They have different goals. If your car makes a new creak when you hit a bump, does that mean you should quickly abandon it because it might blow up? Maybe you should just rush out to replace your engine because it might be that…other cars that had bad engines made a similar creak. That is the mentality that is being pushed.

Cars creaking and infectious diseases are apples and oran…no, they’re not even fruit. So the science says…..we have a variant that is likely to evade vaccine protection. Yes it’s political but there are still a few people with critical thinking skills. That’s why many countries are restricting travel.

@seawulf575 I have no idea if that is all the data the scientists have, that is all of the data you have provided.

Let’s say you have all the data the scientists have. The variant has not infected enough ADULTS to know if it’s killing adults at the same rate as Alpha or Delta.

Eventually, we could get a variant that kills children at a high rate (God forbid) but for now C19 seems to mostly severely affect older adults.

I’m not hysterical about this new variant, I’m waiting to see, and hoping the vaccines prove to be effective against it.

It’s possible this variant is less deadly, that would be great.

Either way, I try to be somewhat cautious.

Oh @seawulf575 was that the opinion/editorial ? ? ?

I hear Trump thinks aquarium cleaner will help ! !

@JLeslie I’d be really happy if someone showed me more. But really, the first cases were the only evidence anyone had at the time. So they can only start with anecdotal evidence. But it is anecdotal evidence from doctors so it is medical observation…a step up.

As for the vaccines, my point is that the recommendations from politicians is to get vaccinated to protect against Omicron. Yet even the vaccine manufacturers don’t know if that will work or not. Moderna’s CEO just made a statement that the vaccines will likely not be effective against it and that it could be months before a vaccine could be ready that is effective against it. So the recommendation is not based in any science at all. As far as I can tell it is nothing but a scare tactic. Part of the hype I am talking about.

@seawulf575: Everyone talked about the logic of prudence and caution. You continue on about how it’s scare tactics and hype. Everyone has given their opinions, including you. Why are we rehashing this over and over?

Yes, it is a scare tactic…
You are on to us (8 billion)...
Sorry we didn’t let you in on it….

@seawulf575 I just was concerned your studies are cherry picked by whatever media you listen too. There must have been a reason the scientists latched onto Omicron.

Think about it logically. They have gone from Delta through many letters in the Greek alphabet without much hoopla. They see something with Omicron that caused concern so they put out a warning. It might turn out to be not much of a problem, or might be terrible. I figure we will know in the next month.

It wasn’t Delta and then hysteria for Epsilon, etc. etc. No, overall there has been little talk about the variants named in between.

@JLeslie The point I am making is that scientists haven’t latched onto anything. A doctor identified a disease that had all sorts of different symptoms was a variant of Covid-19. After that, every action taken was from politicians. They saw “Covid-19” and that was all they needed. Look at the actions as compared to what was actually being reported from Africa. No one even went there to confirm the diagnoses. They just started travel bans (politicians) and pushed for vaccines (politicians). Pharma developers publicly stated that they weren’t sure that the vaccines would have any significant effect at all on the Omicron variant (scientists). But that just made the calls for vaccinations and boosters get even more vocal (politicians). None of the reactions are based on science.

It might eventually come out that there are some sort of long term effects to Omicron. But that comes with time. As should the proper response. I’d understand if it was just a travel ban, as long as it had a plan to go with it: go test the vaccines, verify data, see what the actual symptoms and how the virus attacks the body are….all the things that SHOULD be done. But because none of that was done, all the actions becomes hype.

^^I don’t know what you are talking about. My point is they could have latched on to Epsilon, Zeta, Theta, Kappa, Lambda, oh hell, I don’t remember the Greek alphabet in full order, but they saw something in Omicron.

It could be not a very big deal in the end, or let’s say not any worse than Delta, but it seems to be spreading so they are monitoring it.

It’s like H1N1 in 2009. They were concerned it was more lethal than most flus that circulate so they pulled some alarm bells. It was not nearly as bad as feared, but was more deadly than most, especially more severely attacking children than most flus.

The media sometimes hypes it up more than the scientists are hyped up, because it gets ratings, but it’s not a lie that it is cause for concern.

Another analogy. I have people all around me who don’t believe Florida numbers are really as low as they were this past month, because they think DeSantis doesn’t report all of the cases. It makes no sense. Three months ago my county had over 2,000 cases a month, not it’s around 200. Why the hell would DeSantis report more during the summer (huge tourist time, huge revenue for my state) than the last four weeks? They think he was honest a few months ago but not now?

@seawulf575 what Fright-wing website are you getting all the BS from ? ? ?

I’m pretty sure whatever website it was they didn’t pass science in 6th grade or anything in higher education.

Typo: My county had 2,000 per week. Now it’s 200 per week.