This is for anyone anti-abortion; could you tell a rape victim "Sorry, you have to carry the fetus to term?"

That would be an incredibly cruel thing to say.

However, it’s inaccurate to tell a woman considering an abortion that all they’re going to do is to “remove a blob of tissue”. There is potential long-term harm to her. https://www.scstatehouse.gov/CommitteeInfo/SenateMedicalAffairsCommittee/Shuping%20Long-lasting%20Distress%20after%20Abortion.pdf

A rape victim can take quick action like taking the FDA approved “Morning-After Pill”, emergency contraception. A raped woman can likely get that from any hospital ER.
I’m AOK with that.

It’s wrong for a woman to wait until the baby is big enough able to live on its own and then have it chopped up inside the uterus and removed through dissection.

@gondwanalon

Perfect world – - truth is fathers, uncles, older brothers fuck them twice a week and threaten them with baseball bats and fists (beat them to show the mean it). I know someone i my senior year of high school. she told me what was happening with her father, I connected with someone to get her out of the house and she hugged me in public at our graduation. I was her “Buddha” for believing her and getting her out of the house.

@snowberry: Your link doesn’t work.

@jca2 It’s PDF

@Tropical_Willie: When I click on the link, I get the SC State Legislature, but the page is blank except for these words: “The web page or resource that you are requesting could not be located.”

@jca2 the link didn’t work for me as well.

@gondwanalon ,I am pretty sure I can say with confidence that the majority of victims would NOT let it get that big.

Don’t even get me started. I’m seeking a break from politics until after the holidays.

Sorry, I did have difficulty copying that link. It is titled

Counterpoint: Long-Lasting Distress after Abortion
https://www.scstatehouse.gov/CommitteeInfo/SenateMedicalAffairsCommittee/Shuping%20Long-lasting%20Distress%20after%20Abortion.pdf

It’s 20 pages long, including over 4 pages of references.

@snowberry : I get the same message —the resource could not be located.

I’m sorry. I can read it just fine.

I searched for “Abortion trauma” on Google, and it was the first option.

@snowberry: I don’t know – me and Squeeky have the same problem, and my comment got a few likes above so I am guessing some others have the same.

@jca2 – You’re not missing anything. @snowberry is trying to link you to the mythical “abortion trauma” horseshit.

@product: No doubt. I just don’t get how he can supposedly see it and nobody else can.

^ I noticed that the URL had Shuping in it. Yes – that Shuping. She’s a religious bullshit artist pretending to be an advocate of women. You can find her shit in places like here and Catholic books like this. She is associated with all kinds of crap, including The Justice Foundation whose mission statement includes “To restore proper respect for God’s word and law to American jurisprudence, and thus restore righteousness, justice, mercy and a proper respect for God to the nation”. Anyway, it’s complete nonsense that fabricates shit in order to justify state control of reproductive freedom. The fact that @snowberry is throwing that crap out here, in a thread about rape victims, is even more fucked up.

@product: I’m amazed, then, that a .gov website has such crap on it.

a South Carolina gov web site . . .

Snowberry is a she.

I guess I’m “anyone” because I dislike abortion, push back against people being flippant or zealous about it, and have a child of a genetic makeup most people summarily abort, so I’ll try.

Yeah. It would be hard but I think I could, after the viability threshold has come and gone. As rough as it is, that’s just the appropriate window before you need to start accounting for the fetus in equal amount to the mother.

I’d try to console the mother by reminding them the child is blameless, and connect them with resources about adoption and counseling to help them deal with the emotional trauma. If it’s an ongoing abuse situation, I’d do everything in my power to get them out of that place.

Abortion is illegal after the age of viability.

So @Smashley You are ok if the victim terminates it early,but not if she waits at all?
I don’t think any rape victim would have any long term regrets about aborting a demon spawn that was conceived through rape.
But would have a great many if she was forced to carry it to term,reminded daily of the crime that was committed against her.
I would hope the medical professionals would get the victim to take the morning after pill just in case she could be knocked up from the crime.

It’s a child, not a demon spawn, period. Not having any regret about aborting is psychopathic. I’m not saying it’s not the right thing to do for some people, but that line of thinking is fucked.

Yes, I am ok with early abortions being legal and available, but if the viability threshold has been passed, then there is another human with legal and moral rights to consider, and their rights aren’t in the least bit connected with the circumstances of their conception.

And after that threshold the mother loses all of her rights?
And sorry in rape cases it is demon spawn.

No. The mother maintains all rights she previously had, with the exception of summarily terminating the human being now living inside her. Does a mother with a wanted, birthed child lose all rights because she can’t kill the child if it displeases her? You’re being obtuse. The expectant mother only loses the rights incompatible with the right to life of the viable human inside her.

The child did nothing. You just hate it for who it’s father is. Please explain to the child why it is a demon spawn, and why no one should have a regret to abort them for being a demon spawn. Your own words, please.

So a demon forced himself on the mother planted his demon seed, and yet the fetus is a wonderful little life that should be protected at all costs no matter, what it does to the mother emotionally to carry it to term?
YUP, DEMON SPAWN!!

@SQUEEKY2 Just don’t try to take its guns, all will be well. The Constitushion done says, only some people have rights. I’ll show it to you, soons someone learns me to read.

@SQUEEKY2 – yes, unlike maniacs who believe in original sin, I believe that a child can never be blamed, much less stripped of it’s right to life, because of who or what their parents were or did. You can believe in limitless late term abortion and demons, but I will stick to the real world, and workable policies that balance real human rights.

Oh for F%$#K sake @Smashley I don’t believe in late term abortions unless the mothers health is in danger,I can’t see a rape victim waiting til late term to abort a rape fetus.
BUT regardless a rape victim should not be forced to carry it to term unless it is 10000% her choice.

@SQUEEKY2 – you’re the one being a zealot, don’t blame me because it sounds bad repeated back to you. Late term, it is a human being with real rights. Just because the mother didn’t get an abortion in time does not mean we can pretend that a viable fetus isn’t a human. A rape victim has many chances to abort before viability, but even if by some fucked situation they don’t, this has nothing to do with the issue of fetal personhood. You might want to live in a world were raped people don’t have to deal with these choices, but you do not. They do. It’s fucked, but they do. You make it even more fucked by shitting on the children and arguing they are pre-broken demon spawn and have no rights in some delusional cope to protect victimized women.

I am the zealot??
I am not forcing a rape victim to carry it to term just because it’s a cuddly little life that has more rights than the victim,that is what is truly fucked up.

@SQUEEKY2 This is intriguing. Could you look at a school photo and spot a demon-child who had been conceived from a rape?

What do they look like anyway?

You are the zealot because you never acknowledge any degree of fetal personhood, even beyond viability. Is it still unworthy demon spawn after it has been born, or does demonism require direct uterine contact? I’m surprised you aren’t arguing for post natal termination, considering how little you care for the rights of babies if their fathers are unworthy.

I argue for a reasoned approach that balances the rights of the fetus and that of the mother, which gasp does mean that there is some point you can’t abort after.

You are a zealot when you take the circumstances of conception and declare the human invalid and unworthy of the right to life because of those circumstances.

You are the zealot because you post baiting questions so that you can attack the answerers for your sterotype of their beliefs without hearing them.

You are right I care more for the victim of the crime that was committed against them then the product of that crime.
Guess I am the bad guy.
You prolifers should absolutely pay for all the victims expenses if she is forced to carry it to term against her will,all medical, lost wages and so on if this life means so much.

Could @Smashley define his definition of “viability?”

I would very much like that as well @Dutchess_III .
will @Smashley define what is meant by” VIABILITY ” ?

It’s a pretty simple definition, and has been used as legal precedent since Roe. I thought you guys were supposed to know that, or are you so completely lost on your “rape babies aren’t human” track that you’ve forgotten the philosophical underpinnings of the pro choice movement?

And yes, I would like to see the goverment cover the medical expenses of the mothers in these situations and pay them for the lost wages. These policies are called “universal single payer health care” and “paid family leave” and they make good sense.

One thing we are losing sight of most if not all medical professionals will not do abortions on late term pregnancies unless the mothers health is in great danger, I am not for late term abortions, I am not for abortions used as just a form a birth control.
I would hope the health care system would get the victim to take a morning after pill,just in case ,but if that is over looked,then the woman if her choice should have unrestricted access to a safe abortion, the same for cases of incest, or the mothers health is in danger.
If that makes me the bad guy ,I can live with that.

To me viable means able to survive on their own. NOBODY has an abortion at that stage.

@Dutchess_III correct. That is the threshold at which I would be willing to tell the victim of rape that they must carry their pregnancy to term, as per the original question.

Yeah. It would be illegal at that point.

@Smashley I really doubt any victim would let it go that long,
Unless the mothers health was in extreme danger.
A rape victim would want it gone as soon as possible,and they wouldn’t put it off till it got to that point.
Plus no Doctor, regardless of what prolifers claim would do abortions that late in the pregnancy.
Unless the mothers health was in great danger.

Ok, great.

Yeah. There is a difference between giving birth and an abortion.

I’m late to this question, but since I was pregnant from rape at 15–16 years old, I’ll respond. I would personally transport anyone who was pregnant from rape and wanted an abortion to an abortion facility and hold their hand throughout the procedure. I would probably even pay for it myself. Having been denied an abortion and raising a child from rape (as a child myself) has been the most difficult experience of my life and will never end. I see my rapist whenever I look at my adult son. You cannot imagine the struggles that both of us have faced. And in a society that does not protect victims, we could not benefit from structures and programs that we should have been able to use because our safety would have been questionable, at best. I have severe, complex PTSD and have been suicidal a number of times. My son is in the same boat. This trauma will impact my family for generations. My physical and mental health, the economic health of my family, my education and career all pay a severe price for this crisis. I would not wish this on anyone.

Don’t bother to point out that I am not anti-abortion. This is my lived experience.

Thank you for sharing @Cupcake.

Yeah thanks for your answer @Cupcake .
Sorry you had to go through so much.

@Cupcake – very helpful insights! When we chose not to abort, it had the additional effect of making us realize how many people choose to, as a matter of course, and it made us aware of some of the more despicable arguments touting termination, which I have been pushing against here. All it all, the experience transformed us from uber lefties into people more circumspect. Being denied the choice has obviously given you a unique perspective, which I thank you for sharing.

I’m very sorry for the trauma society inflicted on you. I’m going to ask a couple questions, because I’m genuinely interested in your answers, and I’ll try not sounding like an insensitive jerk, but if I fail, I apologize ahead of time. Do you wish you had aborted, or merely had the choice? I know I would have felt differently about my child if I was denied the choice, but when people blithely say they would or we should just terminate, it feels like a denial of my child’s humanity. Do you feel that way sometimes?

@Smashley It’s an impossible question to answer. I have a human being in my life who is my favorite person in the world. I cannot possibly comment on a desire to have him never exist. But I can share about the pain that both of us experience in an ongoing way. My very clear trauma from abuse and his existential trauma about the circumstances of his conception and his difficulties being raised by a traumatized, fearful, angry, and resentful mother.

If we were to remove him (the person he is and our relationship) entirely from the equation, yes, I would have preferred to abort. But that is not possible and is of questionable use to think about, in my opinion.

My point was to raise some of the difficulties that I uniquely experienced. Having an unwanted pregnancy at a very young age, interrupting my development and social relationships, majorly impacting my financial state, education and career trajectory, severe mental illness, long-term health consequences (that are costly), etc. I’ll add that being so young severely compounded my trauma and I don’t know what this experience is like for people who felt “ready” for parenting.

You point out how personal these debates feel when we personally experience something that most people do not and those are the people who make laws about it. The thought that all pregnancies from rape SHOULD result in rape is a difficult one for me to wrap my head around and is personally painful, particularly to my son. But I absolutely think it should be an option. It is very confusing for anti-abortion people to have a pro-abortion stance in cases of rape, but I just have to believe that their intent is a good one. While I fundamentally believe that abortion should be a strong option for victims of sexual assault, I don’t believe that is the only circumstance in which abortion should be offered.