Do you think Joe Rogan should be "canceled" for his use of the N word?

No. Let him suffer the slings and arrow of his choice of words.
People are, generally speaking, stupid. And some prove it all the time.

Joe had 2 separate shows in one.

To me, he’s known for exposing people to knowledge by asking questions about stuff like scientific topics, archaeology, having fitness people and neuroscientists on, rock climbers etc.

He also has shows where it’s just comedians talking about nothing.

You have the option to read the description of each show before you listen.

If the description says the guest is a rock climber, the odds of hearing crude jokes are really low.
If the guest is dave chappelle….what do you think they’re gonna talk about? It’s not gonna be neuroscience.

Define “cancelled”. And be specific.

Fired @product.

^ I’m curious to hear @jca2‘s meaning here. The word carries a lot of baggage – much more than “fired”. And it generally doesn’t actually have a meaning.

I specified “fired” in my description, @product. I gave the example of Paula Deen, who had a TV show (or multiple shows) and product lines, and now no longer has them.

Wikipedia description for “Cancel Culture” as follows: “Merriam-Webster states that to “cancel”, in this context, means “to stop giving support to [a] person”.[2] Dictionary.com, in its pop-culture dictionary, defines cancel culture as “withdrawing support for (i.e. ‘canceling’ ) public figures and companies after they have done or said something considered objectionable or offensive.”[3] The phenomenon has occurred with both public figures and private citizens.[29] Ligaya Mishan wrote in The New York Times, “The term is shambolically applied to incidents both online and off that range from vigilante justice to hostile debate to stalking, intimidation and harassment. ... Those who embrace the idea (if not the precise language) of canceling seek more than pat apologies and retractions, although it’s not always clear whether the goal is to right a specific wrong and redress a larger imbalance of power.”

The commonplace description means as Wikipedia describes it, which includes possible termination from one’s employment. I don’t mean it as anything other than the commonplace description (as above).

“Cancel culture” as commonly used does not exist. Period.

If you’re using “cancelled” here as a synonym for “fired”, what is it specifically that you’re asking us? Do we think that the company, Spotify, should break the current contract they have with him to host the JRE? If so, would we be analyzing this from a profitably perspective, or some kind of ethical consideration? If it’s the latter, are we supposed to follow a group of principles that can be applied here that would a) require not doing business with Rogan due to his language, and b) makes any sense in the context of capitalism?

I suspect what you’re asking is if we feel that pushback against Rogan is appropriate, and not whether we feel that Spotify would be best to separate themselves from Rogan, correct?

I loathe Rogan for reasons I described in a very recent thread. However, I can’t get worked up about anything coming from the JRE. And I most definitely don’t think his show is a unique threat in any way. Nor do I think there would be any benefit to those who find him offensive (and likely are not consumers of the JRE anyway) to push for him to go back to a normal-published podcast. Remember – the move to Spotify reduced his reach.

I think we need to be specific when we use language that is most used by social conservatives (“cancelled” and “cancel culture”). If there are words that more accurately describe what we’re talking about, I think it’s important to use them. There are always better tools for the job than social conservative talking points that have little meaning.

Unlike the host of this youtube clip I do believe the context matters and was not provided. I also think that people watch the stones being thrown and want to throw them also without a single care to what context those words were said. It’s just time to take down the next right-wing figure. Joe Rogan is not even really right wing. He is closer to the left-wing new age bullshit crowd and adjacent to the right wing. I have not watched the JRE since he moved off youtube and I could care less. I have seen worse things said on mainstream news out of FOX and CNN.
This IS cancel culture in action. It IS A REAL THING. It is what many are calling the latest tactics being used to take down people some don’t like. You don’t just offer better arguments to win over influence, you go after them personally. You go after their jobs, their friends, anything that can be done to destroy that person. Dredge up anything they said or wrote no matter how old or in what context, even make false accusations…whatever it takes. It’s beyond boycotting or being fired. It’s personal and it can be disgusting. It’s not exactly new but it’s particularly powerful right now with major networks and corporations caving as it basically blackmails anyone or anything near the person into hopping on the stone throwing session from fear of being the next target. The latest thing now to keep this monster going is simply to say it’s not real. But it is real.

No. Whether he’s sorry or not is irrelevant. What he did may be tasteless and vulgar, but rates little beyond any other common obscenity.

@Blackwater_Park: “This IS cancel culture in action. It IS A REAL THING.”

The “this is it” doesn’t work because now you’re saying that inter-corporate fighting in action is what “cancel culture” is. When corporations attempt to gain market share and fend off threats, is that “cancel culture”? And is that generally how it’s used?

If a term can’t be defined, and can only be identified by pointing to something and claiming that that phenomenon is what we’re talking about, we have a real problem. It’s the whole “I know it when I see it” obscenity game.

Rogan and all “new” media poses a huge threat to “traditional” media. That’s why they’re so eager to run with this nonsense. It doesn’t matter that every single corporate media outlet is far more racist and dangerous than anything that has ever been said on JRE. It’s a corporate strategy. We’re not the players here – just the consumers.

However…

@Blackwater_Park: “I have not watched the JRE since he moved off youtube and I could care less. I have seen worse things said on mainstream news out of FOX and CNN.”

Exactly!

When did his infraction take place? The public’s obsession with acting as the National Word and Thought Police Force is sad, irritating, dangerous, and funny.

@product Just because conservatives have labeled this behavior with a word or phrase that they often use as a dog whistle does not mean it’s not also real. Clearly it is, it’s a real phenomena we all have been watching unfold and catch fire over the past few years. This is not exactly “corporate fighting” this is political. “It’s not real” Really? I’m not buying it.

Nah….Whoopi just set the new standard. Give him two weeks off. With pay. That’ll teach him. I mean after all, he apologized, right?

@Blackwater_Park: “Just because conservatives have labeled this behavior with a word or phrase that they often use as a dog whistle does not mean it’s not also real.”

I couldn’t agree more. Good thing that’s not what I’m saying.

@Blackwater_Park: “Clearly it is, it’s a real phenomena we all have been watching unfold and catch fire over the past few years.”

Except that it is applied to all kinds of things that aren’t related and have different driving factors. It flattens power, and always comes down to the “well, I can’t define it, but this is a good example of it.”

@Blackwater_Park: “This is not exactly “corporate fighting””

Of course it is. Most or all of the liberals who are now appalled at Rogan only heard of Rogan because corporate media has told them about it. These monsters, who are merely propaganda arms of global capital, bring us war and destruction, clean the reputations of politicians, and are generally the most destructive corporations on the planet. It’s safe for them to try to squash JRE and non-traditional media, because it’s safe. JRE does pose a threat to their entire model of propaganda. They see the numbers, and there is no mystery here. Young people don’t watch the news and get their information in ways that these corporations are constantly trying to swallow up. Spotify absorbing JRE is itself an attempt to get a piece of the future.

@Blackwater_Park: ”“It’s not real””

Specific phenomenon and cases are very real. And these we can discuss with tools that apply to the job. We can be very specific about what we mean without the impotence of the broad brush. “Cancel culture” has no utility in conversation. None. It does not exist.

@product Look man, you’re expending a lot of energy and mental gymnastics to try to explain this away or align it with your particular world-view that I just don’t happen to 100% share. It’s also pretty clearly defined. Here, I’ll explain it again. “You go after them personally. You go after their jobs, their friends, anything that can be done to destroy that person. Dredge up anything they said or wrote no matter how old or in what context, even make false accusations…whatever it takes.” and yes there are many driving factors and motivations. Nobody is denying that. Even you must agree that it’s impossible to simply wave away this kind of behavior. I think people are mostly ok with it since it’s destroying some pretty horrible people. I think it’s dangerous and decent people should not accept this behavior.

I think the term “canceled” is just way over the top. Corporations have included (for a very very long time) some form or other of “morals” clause in contracts. If you do anything to make the brand look bad, you are in breach of contract, and subject to termination. The corporation decides what is untenable.
Geez.

@Blackwater_Park: “Look man, you’re expending a lot of energy and mental gymnastics to try to explain this away or align it with your particular world-view that I just don’t happen to 100% share.”

Fine. We’ll leave it at that. You were unable to define “it”, and we talked past each other. Let’s move on.

My point is that it’s very possible we agree here. But use a crutch like “cancel culture”, and it leaves no discussion available. It’s a Rorschach test.

@Blackwater_Park: “It’s also pretty clearly defined. Here, I’ll explain it again. “You go after them personally. You go after their jobs, their friends, anything that can be done to destroy that person. Dredge up anything they said or wrote no matter how old or in what context, even make false accusations…whatever it takes.””

Yep. That literally says nothing. Absolutely nothing. That can refer to any number of things that are most definitely not referred to as “cancel culture”.

Anyway, good luck having discussions with people where everyone understands the terms to mean different things. Not very useful. And as someone who feels “it” is dangerous, could it be that the real danger is being lazy with language and being misunderstood? Your pushback on the pushback might have teeth rather than just gums if you were to let go of a term that literally means nothing.

I think people are mostly ok with it since it’s destroying some pretty horrible people.

That’s a point I’ve tried to make many times. Don’t call it “cancel culture”, fine. I agree that the term tends to suggest that it’s entirely a left-wing problem, when it is not; this kind of “seek to destroy” behavior exists on all sides of the political spectrum. The objection seems to be with the term alone, so yeah, sure, throw out the term. That doesn’t mean there’s nothing to discuss here. Seeking to destroy a career or a life because someone said the wrong thing is a real thing. If you don’t want to call it “cancel culture”, then so be it.

But I think the greatest issue is that people don’t see it as a problem when it’s happening to someone they disagree with. It’s similar to how the same people who don’t like the power that Big Tech has will cheer when Trump gets banned from Twitter, but aren’t thinking of the fact that this action, even if justified, is a consequence of too much power over freedom of speech in the hands of tech companies (I asked a recent question about this).

To answer the question, I think there is an effort to get Joe Rogan out of the public conscious and it comes from many sides. I don’t care much for Joe Rogan, but I don’t support a deliberate effort to erase him from popular culture (not that that could even be done).

@Demosthenes: “Don’t call it “cancel culture”, fine. I agree that the term tends to suggest that it’s entirely a left-wing problem,”

Odd, because we (the left) consider the whole discussion a right-wing problem (liberals and conservatives). That’s why you see the left is defending Rogan.

I’ll repeat – go ask your local liberal why they are so upset about Rogan. Ask them how many episodes they’ve listened to. There is a 100% chance that they’ve listened 0.0 episodes. And they most likely developed their hatred for JRE and Rogan by watching MSNBC or CNN – two of the most deadly and racist corporations in existence.

The thing is – I do think pushback is a reasonable and valuable tool. Living in a capitalist hell existence, often the only chance of effecting change can be hoping that corporations feel that making a decision that you want happens to correlate with what is most profitable. Those who most cry about “cancel culture” are those who are most dedicated to the very economic systems which bring their supposed travesties into existence.

Again – I’m not a liberal and no fan of Rogan or JRE. And performative liberalism in the context of media racism is a tough swallow. But come on – if we all have to dance to the tune of the most conservative shitholes just to have a discussion, we have a much larger problem than Rogan or the absence of Rogan from Spotify.

As an aside – can you imagine using Spotify to consume podcasts?

@product I don’t disagree with any of that. The outrage against Rogan is driven by the mainstream media and they know that pouncing on the vaccine issue is a way to go after someone they’d rather not see enjoying such popularity. I also think pushback can be a valuable tool. I just can’t pretend that every instance of it is “grassroots” or that I approve of the methodology in every case. A lot of “cancelings” I do think the target brought it on themselves, a lot of times they are not really removed from the culture as the term “canceling” suggests and remain quite powerful, a lot of instances are people simply exercising their freedom to not listen to someone and no one is owed a platform or an audience. In other cases, I think it’s more nefarious (especially when one examines who benefits from the “canceling”). I’m all for “pushback” but in general, I think pushback should be more of a direct confrontation rather than a scheming with power to get someone silenced (again, not saying Rogan is being “silenced” or even at risk of it).

I didn’t even know Spotify had podcasts until various podcast ads kept mentioning it as a source. Imagine paying $9.99 a month for the JRE of all things. I use Overcast myself.

^ Yes, we mostly agree here.

@Demosthenes: “I think pushback should be more of a direct confrontation rather than a scheming with power to get someone silenced”

But remember – what power do people have in undemocratic conditions like capitalism? People only have “scheming” (or really being really loud and threatening to cost corporations $).

I’d love to deplatform every living person on all corporate media for their literal crimes against humanity. But the left doesn’t have any power. When you actually hear of things like Rogan and JRE – it’s because it doesn’t threaten corporate media, and is nonthreatening enough of a demand as to not really hurt anyone’s profits. It’s a big dance.

But yes – there are things that are labeled “cancel culture” by conservatives that are legit. And the term itself has been given extra life by a whole anti-“cancel culture” industry that has grown as a reactionary response to attempts at even nominal progress. JRE has been a safe space for much of the alt-right pushback against the pushback. And much of it is fantasy horseshit and designed to carve out a niche and appear “edgy”, while effectively rewording “get off my lawn”.

Whether or not Rogan should be canceled is immaterial. What matters is that he most certainly will not be shut down. There is entirely too much revenue to be derived through his employment for any other consideration to be deemed tolerable.

@product “Yep. That literally says nothing. Absolutely nothing. That can refer to any number of things that are most definitely not referred to as “cancel culture”.”
Alrighty, if you say so. That’s the “it does not exist” thing again but whatever.

@Blackwater_Park: “Alrighty, if you say so.”

Yes. We already agreed to disagree. You find it critical to declare value in limp words without meaning. I don’t find any utility in that term. Why go on?

My opinion is the same as this one.

This whole issue came up because Neil Young didn’t get his way.

@product Look, this is very well established. You can dance around it all you want. When the right speak “cancel culture” that is what they mean. It’s not up for debate. To do so is cognitive dissonance. I think the drive to explain this away is so strong because it’s a look in the mirror and what stares back is just too ugly to admit. It’s Machiavellian like behavior that is shameful and the people that have been ok with using it just don’t want to face the idea that they’re behaving like fascists.

I think he should stay on the air.

He has done more to screw himself over than any other action that anyone else can say or do. So every time he opens his mouth he will be under suspicion and observation.

This is an example of stupidity being justly rewarded. Let him stay on and make a damned fool of himself.

I think it’s unfair (racist) for Blacks to use the “n” word but it’s only when a White person says it that the shit hits the fan. If White folks aren’t supposed to use it, Blacks should set a good example and not use it either.

@elbanditoroso I said that…or words to that exact effect.

Good grief. If you had only used a word other than canceled, jca. So many panties in a bunch. ;)

@Jonsblond: haha, right!

@jca2 it’s social even, cryin’ out loud. :D

JRE is the most successful podcast ever. I dont think he will be fired or irrelevant anytime soon.

There is no standard for canceling someone. That is the problem with applying it to different situations. I wouldn’t recommend asking for more details. Things get nasty.

Just a wanna be “Shock Jock”. Sure, Cancel him, censure him, take him to the stockades in the square and ridicule him.

Don’t pay any attention to him!

@Forever_Free I’m going to take a guess and say you have never listened to any of his podcasts from start to finish.

No.

@Blackwater_Park Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t call him a “shock jock”. Sort of the opposite. The reason people criticize him so much is because he nods along with every guest, no matter how controversial they are or how much they contradict what his previous guests have said. But then the point of his show (and any interview show, for that matter) is what the guest says, not what the host says. Rogan, even if I don’t personally care for his podcast, is nothing to get outraged about.

@Blackwater_Park yes i have. several. Not a fan of mis-information tactics for sensationalism.

@Demosthenes I have seen him take down a couple guests. He was pretty mean to a youtuber that is blatantly sexist. That’s been the exception and not the rule though.

@Forever_Free Are you sure you have been watching the same Joe Rogan? There is so little of that going on that even if you did watch one or two it had to have been one of the spicier ones where he has had some fruitcake on like Graham Hancock. I have probably listened to a hundred. Podcasts are what I listen to mostly while I’m working.

@Forever_Free So you don’t like him because he’s spreading misinformation. But your not going to believe any of it, right? So who are you worried about?

Who are you worried will fall for it? People who aren’t as smart as you? And all these dumb people need to be protected from hearing this misinformation. Cause they dont know any better.

@malcomkade @Blackwater_Park As stated not a fan. I also am not a fan of people spreading false information. Are you saying you are a fan of people spreading false information?

Nope. Are you going to answer my questions?

@Blackwater_Park I am not worried about anyone who chooses to listen to him or another of his style. Nor am I protecting his listeners. It’s their choice. I merely opined on the question. I stand behind not being a proponent of someone who spreads false information or tries to draw attention to himself in the way he does.
He is in it for sensationalism, money and is a flash in the pan.I hope you enjoy listening to him. To each his own.

Are you a fan of people who spread false information?

@Forever_Free He has spread no more than any news outlet, talk show or other podcast right now. Specifically what misinformation or sensationalism is Joe Rogan spreading.

I will answer that again. No.

This misinformation your talking about is a few minutes from a couple different podcasts. The overwhelming majority of JRE has nothing that can be considered misinformation. As someone who has not listened to the misinformation on the JRE podcasts, how did you find out about it. What do you know about what has been said and where did you get your information?

I have to laugh at the words, flash in the pan. By definition , he is not. He has been steady for over a decade. Lol. I would not call that a flash in the pan.

I love that he allows his guests, no matter what he believes, to express themselves without being treated like they are retarded.
Even people with strange ideas should get to tell the why of their thoughts. Sometimes strange ideas turn out to be valuable innovation, or lead to such.
Average, mundane minds often ridicule genius.

@Patty_Melt is that why I get ridiculed so much?

Lol.
We each have our moments.

@Blackwater_Park @malcomkade Thanks for confirming that he has broadcast misinformation. I think there has been enough in the news and enough higher profile people banned for their misinformation to make my point.

So where do you get your information?

@malcomkade I am done with the baited questions. I have stated my opinions and reasons.

@Forever_Free – I think the issue might be that it’s difficult to understand people who object so strongly to Rogan and JRE while consuming corporate media such as CNN, MSNBC, Fox, Washington Post, NY Times, etc. These publications are objectively far more dangerous than anything that dullard Rogan has done. This is why the left doesn’t care about Rogan or any of this theater.

Lucky you

@product I completely agree with you.

Surprisingly, so do I.

Yes. It’s an offensive word and he knows it. If he has anything between his ears other than a box of rocks.

I think he should take the $100M offer.

No. No one should be ‘cancelled’. If you disagree with his use of the word, say so. If you want to not consume his content because of it, fine. But don’t try to intimidate someone out of speaking like that. That’s how countries fall into authoritarianism – by embracing the idea that saying things that aren’t popular should cause you to suffer personally or financially.