Why do gas prices have to go up as a result of Russia's war on Ukraine?

As you say it’s a matter of scarcity. Shortage of supply, means folks will bid more to obtain whichever widget is in demand. No need to speculate on who’s going to take it in the neck. The irony to all of this is that price spikes will go some way toward covering Putin’s war expenses. Does anyone here believe the Chinese (for instance) intend to honor any boycott or sanctions?

Since Biden got rid of our energy independence, we had to start buying oil from Russia. The cost of a barrel of crude went from $40 to $100. Therefore the cost goes up. Putin is getting rich off of us. Could it be otherwise? Of course. But think about this…why would Putin want to lose money? So the cost has increased 250% and so the price of gasoline will also go up. Now Russia is not the only ones selling us oil, but as they charge more, the other OPEC nations will increase prices as well. Why not? But for sure Trump was wrong for us to be energy independent.

World wide price of oil went from $40 to $100 not because Biden twisted a knob under his desk in the Oval Office.

Don’t blame Biden = = > it is Putin, he is actively trying to trash the USA. Putin wants to control the world he will threaten and maybe unleash a nuclear bomb to prove his point !

$1000 (yes thousand) a barrel !

I guess I should have put ”(outside of Russia, presumably)” in bold.

And maybe this part too:

It’s about whether the rise in cost is somehow automatic or if the responsible people could hold prices steady if they wanted to.

@Jeruba It is the uncertainty of the outcome !

War is hell and the marketplace is also !

The demand for oil and gas is world wide. Europe will be competing for our oil and gas to compensate for the Russian shortfall.

I don’t think it does have to.

It frustrates me that all the talk about gas prices makes it easier for gas stations to raise prices.

That’s how I see it.

The public is set up to blame Russia not Exxon. It could be that Exxon, Shell, and the others seize the moment! The public expects to have to pay more.

This week I expected to pay more anyway; it’s Presidents’ Day Week. People are driving South for warm weather, and driving locally to visit family or do something different during their time off from school. Where I live it’s packed with visitors. It’s no different than gas going up over Thanksgiving and Labor Day, it always does.

The gas price a mile from my house is $3.37 per gallon for regular.

Yes prices could be held down. I recall the so called oil crunch of the 70s when oil was allegedly in short supply. Until they got prices where they wanted them and then suddenly they had plenty of gas, there was gas flowing in the streets. Shortage my ass.

@Jeruba “I understand about scarcity, supply and demand.”

and this:

“It’s about whether the rise in cost is somehow automatic or if the responsible people could hold prices steady if they wanted to.”

Are somewhat contradictory.

If you understood supply/demand then you’d understand why the pricing is automatic. If you’re producing widgets and you’re getting calls from people offering you more than the asking price to get them, aren’t you going to sell to them first at the higher price? As the price rises, eventually some people who wanted your widgets will be priced out (i.e. demand drops off at higher prices). They may seek an alternative product that can get the job done (perhaps in a less-than-ideal manner), or simply not get anything. So it’s supply and demand pulling in opposite direction that dictate price.

In the fossil fuel markets, it’s a bit more complex because you have OPEC (and their market manipulations) and other forces like subsides, strategic reserves etc. that play a role.

In the UK we had an energy price cap which limited the amount suppliers could charge to customers. This caused the collapse of dozens of energy firms who were unable to pass on increased wholesale costs to their customers. The price cap is rising on 1 April and it is expected household energy bills will rise by 54% as a result. Events in Ukraine will no doubt change the picture again.

War mean uncertainty. Uncertainty means people start stockpiling and suppliers worried about the ability to make money tomorrow put prices up today.

@Tropical_Willie Yes, Putin is raising prices. But he can only do that because he is pretty much assured the supply side. When Biden took us off energy independence, the made us more dependent on him as well as not being able to sell oil to Europe. Biden took one of Putin’s competitors out of the race and made them a customer instead.

America is one of the world’s top oil producers..
Russia isn’t even on this list, so I suggest you just calm down @seawulf575.

Because gas companies pounce on any opportunity to raise prices. This gives them an excuse.

Oil is a commodity. The more oil on the market the less it costs. The less oil on the market the more it costs. It works just like an auction. Biden has been trying to get OPEC to increase their production of oil. That will bring the cost of oil down. The same thing would happen if we (the US) would increase our own production of oil. We we increase production there is more oil on the market and the price comes down. We have the ability to solve our problem but Biden won’t let it happen.

We provide 39% of our own oil. Most of what we import comes from Latin America and Canada.

This is more of an argument for clean energy choices. We could keep releasing our oil reserves to bring down prices but at what cost? The cheaper it is the more people will use it needlessly. We would tap out our reserves in a few years making it so we would become totally dependent on other nations and at their mercy. What oil prices then go sky high.
Gas prices don’t need to go up. It’s just an excuse to make more money.

Well it’s going to run out all over the world.

@Pandora Germany for a long time is very obsessed with green energy and climate change, Under Merkel they closed down nuclear plants and became more dependent on countries like Russia for oil. Now what? They put the cart before the horse. They want to go green, but they are not green enough yet. I would love for everything to be solar and wind myself. As much as I hate nuclear energy (some people argue it is actually very green) I hate more to be dependent on another nation for energy and especially a country like Russia.

@JLeslie Nuclear energy is unaffordable. Nuclear waste types have half-lives ranging from thousands to millions of years. What’s the cost to monitor/defend that waste from attacks, terrorists, natural disasters, etc. over millions of years? If you factor that into the math toasting a piece of bread using energy from nuclear is likely to cost trillions of dollars (paid for by hundreds of thousands of generations after you).

It’s only cheap when you make future generations pay for it. Same with fossil fuels. That’s the “Boomer” mentality that has resulted in this clusterfuck of a planet we have. It also has contributed to the exact situation we’re facing now with gas prices, Putin, and geopolitical instability. Renewable green energy is by far the cheapest option, especially when you factor in the costs of war.

@gorillapaws I’m against nuclear power so you don’t need to convince me. Maybe you are just stating facts.

I’ve been to lectures by George Erickson (he lives where I live part time). He went from being against nuclear power to avidly for it and he’s a green guy and very worried about climate change. He hasn’t changed my mind.

Here’s about George if you or anyone is interested. http://tundracub.com/

@gorillapaws Nuclear is not the unaffordable energy. When you factor in ALL the costs, it is fairly cheap. The initial construction cost is high. But they cost per kw/h is pretty low…even trying to recoup that initial cost. Here is a comparison of nuclear to “green” energy:
https://4thgeneration.energy/the-true-costs-of-nuclear-and-renewables/

This echoes that, from strictly a CO2 emissions perspective: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32820449/

So no, renewables are NOT the cheapest, nor even the best at reducing CO2 emissions, when you get into all the construction of the PV panels.

@seawulf575 How much does it cost to secure highly radioactive waste per year? Multiply that by a million and project the future discounted cash flow over that period. Price in the cost of an annuity that would cover that cost and you’ll arrive at a very different number.

@seawulf575 do you comprehend the REASON we need to find sources of renewable energy? We HAVE to.

@Dutchess_III – I’m curious as to what you believe the reasons are. Everything has a downside. The big push right now is for wind and solar. Unfortunately those are not reliable since the wind doesn’t always blow and the sun does not always shine. Not to mention that they consume massive swaths of land mass. The most reliable and cleanest source is nuclear. Of course that also has a downside. But by consolidating power generation with desalinization plants we can solve two problems with one stone. We have time to solve all this hell we have about 500 years of oil in the oil shale, just in the US. Nuclear fusion is being worked and has the best chance of solving the problem we just need time to solve the problem. Personally, I don’t see a need to panic.

[Redacted] When the wind turbines are spinning they produce electricity that is stored in industrial batteries. Same with solar.
The reason we have to develop those technologies is WE WILL FLAT RUN OUT OF GAS AND OIL And it won’t be that long before it happens.
We’ll never run out of wind and sun.
Do you understand?

@Dutchess_III – I suppose it depends on your definition of what is long term. According to the World Energy Council We have about 6.5 trillion barrels of oil shale world wide. Most of it in the US. Here’s the quote: “A 2016 conservative estimate by the World Energy Council set the total world resources of oil shale equivalent to yield of 6.05 trillion barrels (962 billion cubic metres).[2] For comparison, at the same time the world’s proven oil reserves are estimated to be 1.6976 trillion barrels (269.90 billion cubic metres)”. That is enough to last us about 500 years at current usage.

I’d say we have time.

So what? It will run out. All 6.5 trillion barrels.
According to this government source we have enough to get us through 2050.

You just made up that 500 years number. Even if you didn’t are you saying you don’t give a shit about what people are going to do 500 years from now?

I’m saying that we have plenty of time to develop sustainable energy. As far as your government source, you need to read the fine print.

“Proved reserves are an accounting concept that is based on known projects, and it is not an appropriate measure for judging total resource availability”

What fine print? I looked again, have no clue what you’re referring to. Oh. The one you quoted? Well that’s the kind of stuff reputable sites do.
So this generation, the one who used all that gas and oil, just doesn’t need to worry about it?

@Jaxk The actual reasons the nuclear solution is off the table in the vast majority of Western nations and unlikely to be revived in our lifetimes are about the catastrophes thus far, Cherynobyl, Fukashima, etc.

Without government financing , there is no commercial viability. No bank will finance the effort. No insurance company would touch it, and no politician permitting development of a nuclear plant in his/her district would have any prospect for a political career in the remainder of their lifespan.

@Dutchess_III – Proved reserves means the well has been drilled. It does not count oil feilds that we know are there but not yet put into production. Doesn’t it seem strange that while we are consuming vast quantities of oil our reserves; continue to increase. Hell we have more proven reserves today than we did in 1970. If your point was valid our reserves should be steadily declining. They’re not, in fact they’re increasing.

@HP – I’ll give you that point. It just shows the power of mass hysteria.

Not possible @Jaxk.

“Petroleum, also called crude oil, is a fossil fuel. Like coal and natural gas, petroleum was formed from the remains of ancient marine organisms, such as plants, algae, and bacteria. Over millions of years of intense heat and pressure, these organic remains (fossils) transformed into carbon-rich substances we rely on as raw materials for fuel and a wide variety of products.”
Source

Our reserves are finite and they are being depleted.

@Jaxk those reserves are all about fracking, another one of those environmental bills that is most assuredly going to bite us in the ass down the road.

And rather than mass hysteria, it’s justifiable fear. Those places are and remain uninhabitable. No one in their right mind (other than governments) is going to assume the financial liabilities around such potential for catastrophe. The Russians might be understandable for haphazard risk, but when it happens in Japan, that’s the end for future nuclear plants in the lifetime of we who watched it.

Three Mile Island.

Fracking messes with us in Kansas. Earthquakes here were unheard of until a few years ago. Now they’re sending cracks up and down people’s walls.
Erin Brockovitch is on it though.

But more than that is the upcoming contamination of such things as that Ogallala aquifer under your state and the rest of the Great Plains. We’re on the same road as China where virtually all the aquifers no longer are reliable for potable water. What happens when you can’t farm in Kansas?

Scary.

With luck, it might not matter to you or I. It’s another one of those loads that falls on our kids and for those of our kids foolish enough to entertain the prospects of parenthood.

I am thinking beyond myself. It’s gonna happen in my children’s and grandchildren’s time.

Here’s hoping they can find a way out.

@gorillapaws Since I used to work in civilian (and military) nuclear power, I am VERY familiar with the cost of long term storage of the long term waste. I think the real question is: are you? Are you aware that every nuclear site in the US now has long term storage facilities that are all charged to the operation of the unit? Do you know how these are made and how safe they are? I do. I suspect you are a product of leftist activism on the topic.

@Dutchess_III I entirely understand the reasons why we need to find alternatives to fossil fuels. And they are not the reasons you are implying. You are hinting at the Climate Change scare. But it you go back to look at the citations I just provided you will see that solar energy expends more carbon emissions than nuclear. So are you STILL pushing them?

The part you don’t understand about me is that I worked in the energy field for half my life. I have seen the good and the bad, the savings and the waste. So instead of ascribing some version of dimwit to me, you might want to take a moment to ask me what I truly believe.

@HP, you have absolutely no idea how the nuclear power industry works, do you? It is unlike every other industry in many ways, with the possible exception of the airline industry. You cite Fukushima and Chernobyl. Do you understand what happened at those two sites? How about 3 mile island? Davis Besse was almost the worst of the lot but got caught. You might want to ask why it was almost the worst and how it got caught.

And you might ask why it is the public at large are impressed by the 2 I mentioned to the point that nuclear plants are being dismantled in this country as quickly as can be arranged?

I’d say mass hysteria. 18,000 people died in the tsunami, one died from the reactor in Fukashima

@Dutchess_III – You need to learn the difference between actual oil in the ground and ‘Proven Reserves’, they are quite different.

Mass hysteria or not, nothing is quite as inducive to the condition than the requirement for hundreds of thousands to permanently abandon their homes and lands and the conversion of those places to toxic death zones. I know I was impressed. How about you?

No they aren’t @Jaxk.

”Proved reserves are those quantities of petroleum which, by analysis of geological and engineering data, can be estimated with reasonable certainty to be commercially recoverable, from a given date forward, from known reservoirs and under current economic conditions, operating methods, and government regulations.”

Recovered from where? The ground.

It certainly would help climate change if we could abandon oil energy, but that is a side event, and has nothing to do with the facts @seawulf575.
1. Oil is finite
2. We’re running out.

@seawulf575 “Are you aware that every nuclear site in the US now has long term storage facilities that are all charged to the operation of the unit?”

Oh, I didn’t realize we were prefunding the millions of years of security costs. Or are you saying the charges are only for the CURRENT year’s costs, and the rest of the costs will be payed by tens of thousands of generations into the future? Because that’s a big fucking difference.

@gorillapaws Sooooo….you really don’t know how they are made.

It doesn’t matter what any of us know or believe. It would of course be better if all of us had more knowledge on this and God knows how many more topics now crucial to our existence. I only know that the overwhelming public perception of the nuclear power business borders on stark terror, and there have been enough mishaps to adequately enforce that reputation to stifle any privately financed investment or ownership in anything nuclear. And I agree that this is almost certainly a better take on the matter than it’s opposite.

@HP Nuclear power is an awesome power. And like everything man creates, it is imperfect. But the safeguards in place are amazing. The way the industry treats even small errors is beyond anything you can possibly believe. They have several oversight groups, some of which are paid for by the nuclear power industry itself. Every aspect of creation, maintenance, operation etc of a nuclear power plant is documented, reviewed, and scrutinized like you wouldn’t believe. And all of that is part of what makes nuclear power expensive.

The public is fed fear and disinformation about many things and nuclear power is one of them. And “activists” often are given credibility where none is warranted. THAT is why the overwhelming public perception is so bad. That isn’t to say that accidents are okay or that they are minor. But if you look at every single accident that has occurred….every one of them…you will find short cuts that were taken, assumptions that could have been verified that weren’t, and basic human failures that led to the final problem. Even Fukushima that was caused by a tsunami beyond anything the people could conceive given documented history had human error aspects. And from EVERY accident, the entire US industry studies the event, applies any and all learnings to their own plant, making any modifications they have to make so that nothing like that can happen ever again. And it may cost millions and millions of dollars to adapt things, but they do them anyway.

And again, so what? If the left is more skillful at spinning reality, whose fault is that? If the truth is that accidents are rare and catastrophic mishaps infinitesimal in their rarity, there’s no getting around the simple fact that enough plants are up and running to assure said accidents in the future. It’s a lottery in reverse. You may believe chatter from the left the culprit, but if the banks, and insurance companies concur with the left, the right has a hill to climb that gives us all a little hope.

@HP so you admit the left spins reality. Good to know. But do you recognize your argument? Whose fault is it that the left is more skillful at spinning reality? The left’s fault. Lying is not a good thing. And what you are doing is saying yes, the left lies, but according to their lies, what they say is true. And you are trying to spin more reality to try making those lies more real. Do you even know how the insurance companies establish their rates for nuclear plants? No, you don’t. All you know is that if you try spinning it to support an argument, it must be true. The truth is far more intricate than how you pay auto insurance. All those oversight groups I mentioned have a play into the rates.

If those oversight groups say there might be a problem, it is a data point in determining rates. And a lot of what those groups look at are minutiae. And a lot of the minutiae is created by the plant itself. Every nuclear plant in this country and a very detailed and intricate training program. Every nuclear plant has a problem reporting system called a Condition Report program. And just about every minor mistake is documented in a condition report. That report is then evaluated, investigated and a corrective action is created to make sure that problem doesn’t happen again. And when I am talking “minor” I mean minor.

To put it into civilian terms, think about hand washing dishes. You would have a procedure for doing that task. You would have to be trained and evaluated on that task before you would be allowed to do it by yourself. You would be required at all times to follow the procedure verbatim and if the procedure doesn’t work, you would have to stop, put everything into a safe condition, and get the procedure fixed before you proceed. So let’s say that the procedure says “put the plug into the drain” so you do that. Then the next step says to turn on the hot water but you accidentally turn the cold water valve a quarter of a turn and then turn it back. You have just made a mistake. You would be required to stop, turn off the hot water, put the sink back into a safe condition and then go report that you operated the wrong valve. Your supervisor (or in this example your wife or husband) would ask you all sorts of questions about why you operated the cold water valve instead of the hot. This investigation would look for any and all conditions that could have allowed you to do this error. If the valve isn’t labeled properly, identifying which is hot and which is cold, that might be a cause. If you were distracted right before operating the valve and didn’t refocus before proceeding that might be a cause. In the end there would have to be some sort of corrective action created, whether it is something physical, such as the label, or something performance related, such as not refocusing, there would have to be some corrective action.

But you didn’t actually do anything of consequence you say? The nuclear industry doesn’t look at it that way. Operating the wrong equipment is ALWAYS a big deal, even if there was no consequences. Not all errors are reported you say? True. But most are for several reasons. First off is that rarely is anyone working alone. There is often another person to help make sure things are done right. Observations by supervisors, manager et al. are a frequent things. And those observations are critiqued to see if they were intrusive enough…critical enough. Also if you operate a piece of equipment there is usually some impact on a system and all the parameters are constantly monitored. And lastly they are reported because most of the people that work at nuclear plants understand the importance of operating correctly and they will self-identify their problem.

This isn’t spin…this is fact from someone that worked in the industry for 30+ years.

It seems we’re always facing some global extinction event. Global warming, nuclear accidents, nuclear war, over population, deforestation. pandemics, Fluoride in our water, pick your poison. Every solution has a downside and you’ll never eliminate all risk. The human condition has improved immeasurably over the past 100 years but we can’t make progress if we do nothing. I think the ‘Serenity Prayer’ says it best: “God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference”.

We have a nuclear power plant in Burlington, Kansas. Rick took me there. Then he made terrible jokes about the plants and animals we saw. Someone drove past with a pontoon boat in tow. Rick said “That used to be a canoe.”
He also said it it was good fishing in the cooling pond.

@seawulf 575 We are talking about 2 different things. Not once on this thread have I disputed a single one of your facts. But here’s one. You took my statement that the spin of the left as opposed to that of the right as an admission that the left lies about the nuclear issue. That is NOT my position. And it is NOT what I claim. The left or no one else has to exaggerate the accidents thus far in order to frighten the public against your industry. You once again conflate basic common sense with leftist hysteria. I fully admit that the industry is probably the most stringently regulated enterprise in history. But you must grant me the truth of what I state above. The accidents thus far have been so horrific, that private enterprise will not take on the risks REGARDLESS of any measures thus arrived at; you say they’re safe. I say, if you’re right, it’s irrelevant. Right or left no one will invest or finance them, and no one wants one in their backyard. You may be right, but I’m certainly right thus far.

@HP, What you stated was that the left spins reality better. My point is that if you have to spin reality, you are actually creating lies. Reality is facts, “spin” is purposeful misdirection from the facts. And you said the left does it better. And yes, the left DOES have to create lies to scare people. That is how they work. They offer opinions up as facts, they make wild, unsubstantiated claims and then hold other accountable for their conclusions. That is how they work. Just watch CNN or MSNBC to get a perfect example. And you confirm this by stating that the spin is the fact and that my facts are irrelevant. It has to be difficult to avoid reality this way. Is it as hard as it looks?

What’s the “spin” we put on the nuclear reactor disasters?

@Dutchess_III
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ The Three Mile Island was photographed in a Hollywood studio just like landing on the Moon ! It never happened ! J. K.

@seawulf575 Let me emphasize Dutch’s question. Anyone who believes media spin required to take fright at Fukushima or Cherynobyl is beyond the reach of common sense. More to the point, I defy you to name a nuclear accident affecting ANY facility where its proponents did not SPIN the LIE that the thing was perfectly safe and the protections adequate?

@HP but you are changing your claim. Let me revisit what you said: ” I only know that the overwhelming public perception of the nuclear power business borders on stark terror,” You were speaking of public perception of the nuclear power business. When I addressed how the left creates most of the fear in the public perception you actually stated: “And again, so what? If the left is more skillful at spinning reality, whose fault is that?”. I have explained several times that when you spin reality, what you are really doing is lying. And what you have done ever since is to take the spin from the left to try proving your points. I have given you actual facts. I have given you examples to help enlighten you and now you have basically tried pivoting to “prove nuclear power accidents aren’t bad”. At no time have I ever said nuclear accidents aren’t bad. In fact I provided one example of a situation at a nuclear power plant that would have likely made the others look minor had it actually occurred. What I have stated is that the industry as a whole stresses safety and perfection more than most. And that statement alone is one your left-spun reality would never touch. MAYBE instead of trying to slide away from your own statements to try making it look like you are right (and spinning reality to believe you always were), you could actually participate in the conversation and maybe even learn something. To give you a point of reference, I worked in naval nuclear power for 6 years and civilian nuclear power for 32 years. I think I know how things REALLY are. I don’t need someone spinning reality for me.

A lot of folks can’t understand how we came to have an oil shortage in our country.
~~~
Well, there’s a very simple answer.
~~~
Nobody bothered to check the oil.
~~~
We just didn’t know we were getting low.
~~~
The reason for that is purely geographical.
~~~
Our OIL is located in:
~~~
Alaska
~~~
California
~~~
Coastal Florida
~~~
Coastal Louisiana
~~~
Coastal Alabama
~~~~
Coastal Texas
~~~
North Dakota
~~~
Wyoming
~~~
Colorado
~~~
Kansas
~~~
Oklahoma
~~~
Pennsylvania
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And Texas
~~~
Our dipstick is located in the White House!
~~~

At $125 to $130 a barrel it will become economically to start fracking and deep drilling. The President doesn’t run the oil companies and he doesn’t have a dial in the Oval Office to increase oil and gas prices.

Supply and demand not just politics.

They’re already fracking here, and have been for years.

Yes ‘Supply and Demand’. Supply is low so the prices are high. Increase supply and the prices will fall. Biden has the ability to lower the prices by stopping his war on oil. Issue more leases, make permits a little easier to come by, and promote financing for drilling. If Biden would simply announce that he is willing to open the spigot and go all out for domestic oil production, the futures market would quickly react and start coming down. Biden can’t directly lower prices but he can sure as hell affect them. He’s already done that but the wrong way.

I don’t want Yellowstone or other National Parks & monuments as drilling sites like TRUMP WANTED.

Is it OK yo fill them with Windmills? We don’t need to do anything in Yellowstone There’s plenty of oil in the arctic and off shore.

No turbines @Jaxk.

Trump was selling – SELLING – permits for Federal property. Biden reversed that !

Windmills indeed ! Pedaling works . . .

@Jaxk I saw Biden say he s not slowing oil production in the US at all and hasn’t been. That is how I understood it. He said 90% of oil production is private companies. I’ll try to find the clip.

@JLeslie – I saw the speech, it’s just not true. Biden campaigned on shutting down the oil and gas industry. As soon as he took office oil production started declining and prices started rising. That’s not a coincidence. He’s issuing no new leases, he shut down ANWAR, and permits are steeped in ‘red tape’. That’s by design. Just because Biden said it, doesn’t make it true.

@Jaxk I am not saying just because he said it makes it true, but I am not so sure it is not true. You don’t think the gas and oil industry take advantage of being able to blame Biden so they can raise prices?

By design why? Why does Biden want to slow production?

Biden does not a have dial under the desk in the Oval Office to JACK UP the gas prices !

None of the petroleum companies in the USA are run by the Congress – - President – - – Supreme Court.

@JLeslie I’ve noticed over the years that politicians say things that are true…partially. When Biden says he’s not “slowing oil production”, that is a statement that is full of boundaries, all of which can be put into place to say he isn’t lying. He isn’t telling people to slow oil production…that is probably true. But is he helping to increase it? Is he making it easier for new production to start? Or is he putting tons of road blocks in the way and making it more difficult? Is he even, potentially, incentivizing reduced production? With all of those possibilities he is not actually “slowing production”. He just isn’t helping or he’s giving the oil companies the final say on how much they produce, but he is giving them a carrot to reduce it. HE isn’t slowing it, they are. So I’m sure he probably did say he isn’t slowing production, but that isn’t the same as taking action to increase production.

^^Let’s say you’re right. It’s still only focusing on one part. The other part is the lure of PROFIT.

@JLeslie You know I’m always one that sees greed as one of the great problems with humans. The lure of profit is indeed a real thing. BUT, the question then becomes: why were gas/oil prices so low about a year ago and for years before that?

^^Covid. Demand was EXTREMELY low during the first year of covid. Barrels of oil were sitting.

Before that it was probably an assumption of what the market would bear and other factors that I don’t think we fully understand.

During the Bush years gas went way up, if I remember correctly Katrina was on of the spikes. I remember seeing $4 gas prices in some states. Then food prices went way up. The gas finally came down, but it took much longer for food prices to come down. The price of gas went up during part of the Obama years too.

I see a pattern of gas prices always going down before presidential elections. Some people argue one has nothing to do with the other.

Gas prices go up on holiday weekends. Why? Because they can. We are starting Spring Breaks next week in the country, people have all sorts of travel plans.

Lots of factors go into gas prices.

Didn’t Trump claim he was bringing back the coal industry? Lots of jobs were going to be created, acccording to him. What happened to that lie?

Profit s a good motivator but you have to ask yourself why the oil companies would not want to sell more oil at $100+ per barrel. During a debate with Bernie Sanders Biden said “No new Fracking” That is exactly what he’s done. Issue no new leases but not just for fracking, no new leases for period. At the end of Trumps administration there were 37,000 unused leases. Now there are 9,000. Biden simply won’t allow new leases and the ones still unused are of limited value. Same with ANWAR, no leases. So Biden can say he’s not stopping the oil companies from drilling, hes just not letting them drill where the oil is. This is all a semantics scheme to give Biden ‘Plausible Deniability’.

Biden doesn’t want cheap gas. He wants to make oil so expensive that no one will use it. If that destroys the economy, so be it. It’s collateral damage.

This is from another Q. LuckyGuy provided the data:

During the various oil shocks and price spikes the Department of Energy and others tracked gasoline prices vs usage all over the US. It turns out that depending upon the community usage goes down 1% for every 10% to 15% of price increase. For example, imagine you were paying $3.29 per gallon and you used 20 gallons per week, If the price suddenly spiked up 12% to $3.69 per gallon, you would conserve a little and only use about 19.8 gallons per week. For the most part you driving habits would not change. You’d skip only one small trip. Conversely, if usage drops that same 1% the price will fall by that same 10–15%. Or if production changes 1% the price will move 12%. This ratio 12:1 varies depending up the region. Some places have no choice. Some have many other options.
Russia supplied about 6% of our oil, so you can expect to see 6% x 12:1 = 72% price increase if we keep our driving habits the same. Gas at $3.29 per gallon will be $5.75 per gallon – if we don’t reduce our consumption.
We all could help pull the price of oil and gas down by conserving. We did it before during the first part of the Covid shut down. We used about ⅔ of our normal usage. That is why gas prices went down to $2.09.
We can support the country, and Ukraine, by conserving. Even a little helps.

@JLeslie – The relationship is valid. I have no idea if it is as presented but I’ll assume it is. There are still a few flaws in your plan. First the price has not changed 10 or 20% but rather 100%. That’s no longer just a trip to grandma’s house, it’s whether or not you can get to work. Then you have to adjust for record inflation. Expendable income is gone and prices keep rising with no end in sight. We’ve got too many problems crashing down on us all at once. Many are predicting a full on depression. If that happens you’ll get your wish as no one will be going anywhere, including to work.

@Jaxk 100% since when? Since Biden took office? I don’t know how anyone can count the covid low prices as a legitimate number for comparison. Summer 2019 average was price was $2.90. Now, the average is $4.10.

When Bush was president I was suspicious of him helping his oil friends. My guess is all presidents probably have some oil connections either personal or political.

I don’t know much about ANWAR, and I take your word it might have some effect, but there are many other reasons why.

@JLeslie – There are always reasons to not do something. We are producing 1 million barrels a day less than we were when Trump left office. Sure Ukraine has caused a run up but that would not have hurt as much with that extra million barrels a day. Buttigieg has told us to buy EVs. forget the fact that the batteries for them come from China and the fact the the electricity is generated by oil and gas. Forget the fact that Bidens infrastructure plans require asphalt the principle ingredient is oil. we are approaching planting season and fertilizer prices are set to double. Basic food prices will follow. Are you ready to turn in your Porche? How about Rick is he ready to trade his Porche for a Golf Cart?

I get it, Biden wants us off oil. Hell, I don’t totally disagree. But let’s do it in an orderly fashion.that doesn’t destroy our economy. does it really matter to the environmental lobby that the oil is pumped overseas rather than here? Why are we begging other countries (mostly our enemies) to pump more there while pumping less here. Isn’t it all the same planet? Buy American (that means oil as well) and keep our wealth and jobs here rather than sending it overseas. Once the energy sector is destroyed, it will be very difficult to revive.

@Jaxk I totally agree buy American. I also agree don’t put the cart before the horse. That’s what Germany has done by shutting down all their nuclear power plants, now they are very dependent on other countries for energy, including Russia. I think that was a bad decision and I hate nuclear power, but I hate being dependent more.

Some people don’t realize that we export refined oil, we import and export oil products. Not sure if you know that?

Also, article about general inflation on gas prices compared to 2008 https://fortune.com/2022/03/10/gas-prices-record-high-inflation-wage-growth-oil/?fbclid=IwAR0LiRVUSmi4Nt-dhAiRIjpdgpPfa43AA4dHpUNQKscuXOd1Vn_OwphO1LA

Average price of gas today hit $4.31 if memory serves me.

Might be. I think I might have been looking at last weeks. My gas is $4.24 near me? I just drove past it. Might have been $4.34. I didn’t take careful notice.

Looking back at historical trends, you can see that in January of 2021, the month Biden took over, gasoline was at an average price of $2.391/gal. In February of 2022 it was at $3.675/gal. That is a 53% increase since Biden took office. Source There isn’t data for march on this chart. But if we say the average today is $4.15/gal, that means it is a 73% increase since Biden took office. I’m sorry, I don’t buy “covid” as a valid reason for that much of an increase. In January of 2018 (Before Covid) it was $2.596/gal. Today’s values are a 60% increase over that. And it isn’t like the country is going crazy driving. More people are working from home, homeschooling kids, and basically driving less.

Correlation is not causation !

Biden doesn’t have a dial in the Oval office that he twists to jack-up the prices.

Prices are set at the gas stations and by the oil and gas companies.

So when Biden cancelled all oil leases in ANWAR, cancelled all off shore drilling, blocked new leases on federal land, and heaped lots of new regulation on oil production, that had no affect on oil prices or production. Is that your theory? It’s the oil companies and gas stations that have the dial. You really don’t have much knowledge about how all this works do you?

“Biden cancelled all oil leases in ANWAR, cancelled all off shore drilling” The oil leases were not for active drilling sites – - ZERO oil coming out of the ground.

Did not stop existing wells from pumping.

All your comments about Biden impacting oil pumping in the next five to ten months not today.

Today is when the gas and oil companies are increasing their profits.

@Tropical_Willie – I would love to have this discussion with you but I’m not sure I can do it without writing a book. First you need to know how the stock market works, specifically the commodities market. Then you need to know how the oil industry works. You also need to know how the financing for drilling works and you need to know what the government calls a subsidy.

I will give you this one tidbit. Nobody sets the price of oil because they don’t control it. What they control is the supply. More oil lower prices, less oil higher prices. Today we have less oil. We have less oil because existing wells eventually dry up. If we don’t keep searching for new pockets the existing production slowly diminishes. That is happening. I won’t even start with the pipelines but rest assured, they are needed as well.

Whether any of us understand the stock market or the labyrinth workings of the oil business, there’s no denying TW’s assertion that higher prices at the pumps reflect huge profits for producers. It therefore follows that if Biden’s restrictions on environmental destruction are responsible, he is colluding with those companies in driving up their profits. And this is the little item which interests me most. Consumers take a huge hit while profits explode! There is always some convenient economic necessity for rape of the environment, and rather than labeling events in Ukraine the likely cause for the gouging at the pumps, howls over Biden’s ineptitude replace any emphasis on the obvious.

How would he collude with them @HP?

Is it reasonable to state that the oil companies are in business to maximize profits? If @Jaxk Is correct that Biden forced up the price of gas, isn’t the President colluding with the oil companies toward attainment of that goal?

Biden has no need to collude with anybody. He simply regulates oil production so that drillers can’t drill. No leases, no permits and bang we can’t increase production. Biden wants higher gas prices, it fits his agenda. He is trying to manipulate the demand side of the equation, the higher the price the less people use. Unfortunately the demand side of the equation is much harder to control not to mention much more painful for the consumers. Politically higher prices hurt him so he is trying to blame Russia for it and reduce his political problem. Apparently it is working on many of you.

Perhaps it works because it makes sense. You can take your pick when it comes to faulting Biden. You can say he’s a bum for instigating production testictions or fault him for safeguarding the environment. But you cannot have legitimate discussion on this matter through denial of the fact that sanctions are DIRECTLY and undeniably responsible for the recent and drastic surge in prices. We can dump both the environmental regulations as well as the sanctions, but it’s foolish to have this conversation on the absurd pretense that it was not triggered and sustained by the sanctions.

@HP Some people hope Putin eliminates the Ukrainians and places blame on anyone they oppose in USA government.

Not some people. PLENTY of Russians understand Putin’s position on this matter, though they despise him personally. I guarantee that I am not Russian, but believe as every Russian of any consequence in the last 600 years that Ukraine and Georgia are vital to the existence and integrity of Russia as a major power on the world stage.

You mean Russia as in the former USSR?

I mean Russia and those past and present who would refer to themselves as Russians. As for the Ukrainians themselves, they are in the same position you would be as a resident of Tennessee in 1862 if some European asks “are you American?”

U S S R !

@HP Even I have sympathy for how Russians view Ukraine but let’s distinguish that from the horror we are now witnessing and let’s not confuse Putin’s Orwellian kingdom with Russia as a country. Putin doesn’t even dare tell Russians what he is doing or why he is doing it.

@Tropical_Willie “Correlation is not causation !” Funny how you change that when it is an accusation against Trump. Then it becomes “Where there’s smoke there’s fire!”. Your lack of consistency speaks to your frame of mind.

But @flutherother , do you suppose anyone less diabolical stands a chance of holding Russia together? When and under what leader was Russia not an Orwellian state distinguished for interminable suffering and struggle? Putin isn’t an aberration. He’s a product of the reality that is Russia. And for all his malevolence and ruthless perception of him by outsiders, Russia could certainly do worse, and certainly has in its dismal past. I’m not a Putin sympathizer, but believe me, the history of the place makes me shudder. There isn’t a chance in hell of anyone other than a rock hard cynical and ruthless authoritarian rising to the top and maintaining any semblance of order and discipline in that tormented land.

@HP – If I give you the point that sanctions have driven the spike in oil prices, you have to look at why did that happen. At the beginning of Bidens term we were energy independent and not importing any Russian oil. Biden is directly responsible for driving down oil production so that we are now only producing half of our energy needs. Europe followed the same course so that they are importing half of their energy from Russia as well. If Biden had not done that we would not be importing any Russian oil and the sanctions would have had minimal impact. You can call it ‘Monday morning quarterbacking’ but the fact is we were in a good position and now we’re at the mercy of Russia. Even now when things are going badly for us, Biden is unwilling to change course. He got us into this mess and won’t do anything to get us out of it.

“beginning of Bidens(sic) term we were energy independent and not importing any Russian oil. ” According Trump.. . however – - – https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/examining-u-s-energy-independence-claims/

. . . the U.S. was buying oil from Russia in 2020, and for many years before. For instance, Russia accounted for 7% of total U.S. imports of petroleum in 2020 and 7.9% of those imports in 2021.

@Tropical_Willie – I’m always wary of those fact check articles. But in the spirit of fair playLet me examine some of what they say compared to the actual data they use. I’m going to assume that the graph is accurate, at least for this discussion. They compare crude oil exports against petroleum imports which is nonsensical and I’ll ignore their whole spiel about BTUs.

They say: “The EIA said a decline in the global demand for oil during the COVID-19 pandemic finally pushed the U.S. into net exporter territory.” which implies some major change in the trend. There is no change to the trend until 2021 when Biden Caused a reversal. In fact other than a slight pause in the trend during the second half of the Obama administration the trend was consistent from Bush through Trump. It wasn’t until Biden took over that there was a marked change in the trend.