Do you think there would be a point where the US directly engages Russia on the ground or in the air, in relation to Ukraine?

If they get attacked themselves, no sooner.

If Russia tries to invade one of the NATO countries.

Remember that as much as 50% of what you read on the internet is false/misleading.

When they attack a NATO country.

What the two above said. If they try to attack a NATO country like one of the Baltics or Poland. That would mean NATO declares war on Russia, which Russia would lose. So I don’t see it happening.

Russia would lose? Everybody loses. There will be no winners on what for all practical purposes would be a big red smoking uninhabitable cinder. Putin knows that we know this. And he assumes the fat pampered West will not gauge Ukraine worth the risk outside NATO membership.

So much as a stray rocket into Poland could bring it on.

No. Nor did Putin – which is why he was willing to invade.

(Said in poor Russian accent): “Iz jyast exersizes. No invazon plans!” Right

@HP What makes you think the world would come to a smoking end? If no one gets stupid and goes whole hog, no problem. Right now Putin is merely making threats, trying to scare people. He’s a bully. A thug. A terrorist. Sure, he could have a murder/suicide thing planned but that’s making one hell of an assumption. (And when you assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME.)

Just in case somebody IS that stupid, do like I did a long time ago. Stick your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye. Then you’ll be ready for the end, should it come.

Let’s just hope China stays a sleeping giant.

@kritiper if no one gets stupid? Do you believe there is any shortage of stupidity on either side? I just look at the openings of the 2 world wars, and conclude it would be nice to have someplace to hide.

@HP Aren’t you by San Fran? Those pirate caves look pretty good! :)

@KNOWITALL – not China. They want the Europeans to battle it out. No real winners in a war. Then they will come out ahead.

@KNOWITALL. I know that I’m a pessimist and cynic. But I see no reason or method for the current situation to improve. I’ve been trying to formulate an excuse for Putin committing raw recruits to his initial assault. And the most optimistic thing I can come up with is that perhaps corruption has reached a point in Russia where even the military suffers from the looting of the country that defines the place overall. There have been rumors for decades of the officer corps routinely participating with the rest of the leadership in siphoning off the assets and funding supposedly allocated to the country’s infrastrucure, and particularly its military. It is the all but open and system wide rule for success. But even if that is the cause of the recruit thing, it portends grave consequences for us regarding the disorderly collapse of a Russia when everyone grabs what they can in panic from the sinking boat. Who’s going to grab and peddle the nukes? Next is the possibility that Putin assumes the throwaway soldiers are sufficient to achieve his goals, and he’s saving the professional and elite troops to police and suppress the disgruntled Russian population in the coming and guaranteed hard times. But that scenario is not much better, regarding the certain chaos and misery. How about a world stuffed with Russian refugees and nukes for sale at firesale prices to whoever has the bucks?

And those caves are an illusion as a safe hideout. If it comes, there will be no place to hide. And any survivors anywhere will surely envy the dead. If you want an hour of sobering depression go look at a map of this country and try to find a location more than 100 miles from a military base or other strategic target.

Just because there is no shortage of stupidity, it doesn’t mean stupidity will rule. Putin knows what’s at stake. That’s why I believe he is bluffing.

I think right now the sanctions are hurting Putin worse. I saw an article today where he was whining and pleading his case for no more sanctions. Have to see what happens.