Is the real problem guns, or is it that we idolized violence as entertainment for years?
Asked by
SQUEEKY2 (
23427
)
June 2nd, 2022
Video games, movies, tv shows, and so on violence is a form of entertainment, is that the real problem?
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94 Answers
I mean more blood and bullets the better, I think people are having a tough time between real life and movies.
It’s neither. There is a moral panic being created right now. The media reports instructs those who would do such things exactly what to do using the most evil weapon, the AR-15. There is a feedback loop, more shootings, more reporting, more shootings…. That coupled with the social isolation young people have now, it’s like a storm. Then there is the loose requirements to obtain such weapons. Then there is a poor safety culture surrounding them. I don’t see cinema or video games causing this any more than 80’s heavy metal caused an epidemic of devil worshipping cults.
The rest of the western world consumes and “idolises” the same violent media that the colonies do.
It isn’t video games, it isn’t a lack of security in schools, it isn’t mental health issues, it isn’t reporting by the media; it is guns. The evidence is clear but there are none so blind as those who will not see.
Our cartoons were pretty violent when I was a kid. Road runner, Elmer Fudd, Foghorn Leghorn, just to name a few.
We didn’t go out shooting because of it in the 60’s.
It’s firearms.
The Second Amendment is only an amendment. Time for repeal.
@ragingloli Nailed it. Look all over the developed world and you see people playing the same video games, watching the same movies and Netflix shows. They don’t have mass shootings because they don’t have the guns.
It’s like the owner of a violent, aggressive, rabid attack dog that runs around off leash and keeps attacking people saying “we need to figure out how to keep other people away from my dog—Spike here is not the problem.”
If we banned semi-auto weapons, we’d still have mass shootings, but the bodycounts would be 80% less.
It’s a bit more complex than just one thing. There is no magic bullet answer (no pun intended).
So many things play into this. This is not in any order: culture, peer pressure, social media, bullying, family structure, mental illness, acceptance of violence, law enforcement, justice system, political beliefs, weapon availability, weapon technology, movies, games, blame everyone else, take things out on others, religious beliefs, etc.
^^^^^^ @Forever_Free Bullshit. Get rid of the guns. Guns have only one purpose- to kill.
@zenvelo I’ll call your bulshit and raise you a cup of Jim Jones kool aid.
“culture, peer pressure, social media, bullying, family structure, mental illness, acceptance of violence, law enforcement, justice system, political beliefs, weapon availability, weapon technology, movies, games, blame everyone else, take things out on others, religious beliefs, etc.”
Can I echo @ragingloli and state that these things are also prevalent in the rest of the world (some countries even that also have a lax arms policy), but no mass shootings there.
@Forever_Free I’ll compare the Jim Jones Kool Aid to your multiple excuses for not doing anything. (By the way, I was classmates with people who died in Guyana, Congressman Leo Ryan was a next door neighbor in Bulingame CA.)
@zenvelo @rebbel Don’t get me wrong. I am not a proponent of guns and gun ownership.
I gave my opinion on the original question only.
Yes, something needs to be done. It’s just not a simple answer. (By the way, I too have felt loss)
Edited: France took a step and cut their gun ownership in half back in 2018. They still have this terrible issue as well.
@Forever_Free But not to the same extent at all. France has not had more mass killings this year than there have been days. A killing of any kind in France is still a rarity although there have been racially based murders.
I agree that it’s not just the guns and it’s also not just mental health. It’s a multi-pronged problem and needs multiple solutions. But for those who say it’s only about mental health, those people are not funding improved access to mental health either. And as been said elsewhere, if a toddler is wielding a knife, the first thing you do is take away the knife. You don’t give everyone else knives too.
No, it’s an old and outdated lie by some Americans still living in the past.
Try to catch up, please. People shouldn’t even be suggesting video games at this point. You might as well say marijuana contributed to interracial marriage.
Our violent disposition doesn’t help. And you can present several arguments on why America stands out as a free fire shooting gallery. You can stipulate that Americans are crazier than other people, and there is extensive evidence bolstering the truth of that one. But I tell you, all factors you can come up with when combined together will NEVER outweigh the basic fact that in America, ANYONE can easily and readily grab a gun. The numbers of guns in this country now simply overwhelm any possibility of their MEANINGFUL regulation. Regarding this, it should be realized that just as with climate change, the tipping point for rising carnage was probably achieved decades ago, and just as with the fact that if humanity ceased immediately spewing all hydrocarbons into the air and oceans, the disasters will continue to accelerate in frequency and severity for decades, the exact forecast can be expected regarding gunplay. No genius should be required to understand or admit this. And just as with climate change—you ain’t seen nothin yet.
@HP I hope Biden’s common sense laws include a quick, public execution of these killers. I don’t see any other way to stop the escalation.
Anti-gunners just scoff it’s the gun plain and simple take all of them away and the problem goes away.
REALLY??
You just take the guns away from the legal law abiding gun owner, think a would be mass shooter is going to give theirs up just because it became banned?
And violence as entertainment you don’t think that maybe the bombardment of all the Hollywood violence might just have a desensitising affect on these people that commit these crimes?
@SQUEEKY2 It could be part of it. Some blame the collapse of religion. Some blame the lack of a nuclear family, inflation, Covid, social media, etc… I’d love to hear from an expert profiler.
So far Biden’s killing this!! Wow!
@KNOWITALL Can you clarify what you are talking about?
I know that those that fetishize guns (the bigger the better) would love the problem to be anything but their beloved penis replacements, but it’s the guns — or, more specifically, the types of guns that average citizens are allowed to buy in the U.S.
I drove up to New Hampshire last night for a concert and went past a damn shrine to the second amendment and this sick fucking religion these lunatics pray to. Massive, warehouse-style gun shop. Picture CostCo for weapons. Hanging outside were multiple large banners with messages such as “Kill ‘em All. Let God Sort it Out.” This gun shop’s logo included two assault rifles crossed in an X shape under a screaming skull. Multiple pickup trucks with American flags hanging off of them were parked outside. I imagine the drivers were inside, trying to decide which weapon of mass destruction they could take home to jerk off to.
It’s the damn guns.
@janbb Biden’s speech just now about gun control. Really good.
@KNOWITALL “I hope Biden’s common sense laws include a quick, public execution of these killers.” I’m with you, girl. Let’s hang ‘em or get a guillotine and behead them on national news. THAT would be a deterrent for some.
In answer to the original question, I think the violence culture contributes. Yes, there has been violence in movies for as far back as there were movies. But movies and special effects have evolved to the point where there is more graphic violence. And it does spread to all different sort of entertainment. But I don’t think that is 100% the answer. There is a sickness in the culture. It isn’t the guns…the guns are a symptom…a tool for expressing the sickness. There are plenty of laws against killing people, trying to kill people, injuring people, threatening people and everything else that plays into the shootings. There is a view that life is cheap. And there is a view hopelessness in many. In some cases I believe the perpetrators are doing their crimes not because they are angry, but they are afraid of being insignificant. They want people to notice them. And if they die, I don’t think they care. They know people will talk about them and they will become important.
Wow! I actually agree with Wulfie.^^^^
@KNOWITALL
How is death a deterrent to an already suicidal person? You think people are shooting and expecting to claim insanity then go to the mall and shop after it blows over?
We all agree with wulfie that levels of stress and frustration are high. But if America is indeed a madhouse, who here believes as does the ARA more guns lying around or even better, arming every inmate guarantees a fair fight for each of us?
@KNOWITALL
So your link explains how media affects mass shootings, and your suggestion was using that same media to appease your childish reptilian brain’s need for more violence?
What if the next guy wants to be the one on stage to get killed in front of everyone for glory?
I would argue neither. We have two major gun violence problems. Let’s look at each individually.
One, spree shootings, are incredibly rare events contrary to impressions given by the media. They are, statistically speaking, insignificant. They just FEEL more common than they are because they grab so much attention and are so heartbreaking. They are almost always the result of disturbed individuals. As a country we SUCK at mental health issues. This is something we need to get better at.
The second, is the larger problem. And that’s the inner city violence. This violence is almost entirely the result of our War on Drugs. By treating drug abuse as a criminal problem rather than a social problem, we created a gigantic black market and an incentive for people to fight over the corners where drug dealing is done. If you want to see the gun violence rate PLUMMET, all we have to do is end the drug war and move to a Harm Reduction focussed drug policy instead of a Prohibition focussed policy. America learned how stupid it is to take recreational drugs and make them illegal during the 20s and 30s as we saw the rise of corruption, crime, and didn’t really see much drop in alcohol use. The same happened with drugs. Drug use didn’t really decline, it just changed. And we’ve created massive lucrative black markets that fuel the violence.
So many reasons, but like Biden said, allowing the purchase of firearms that can shoot 30 rounds in seconds is outrageous. Not his exact wounds, but that is the gist of it.
As far as mental illness, well, do we have more mental illness in the US? If we do than why? Why are so many people in the US suffering from so much stress, depression, anger, and whatever else that they snap? Financial difficulties, abuse, family strife, unsafe neighborhoods, bullying, just to name a few. Republicans seem to be talking about treatment availability and not about what’s causing mental health issues.
Is it violence in movies and on TV? I would love for there to be less violence in movies. I don’t think a boulder falling on Fred Flintstone’s head matters at all, but watching people being tortured and woman being abused and raped I do think is a problem.
As far as a religion, from what I understand the shooter in TX was religious, or at least from a religious home. Plenty of shooters are religious Christians. The White Supremacists use (twist) Christianity to control and influence their followers. At the same time, churches in many places truly unite communities and give young people a place to feel safe and cared about, especially when that might be absent at home.
The Republican politicians and media mentioning religion is just a dog whistle. More hate and distrust towards atheists and possibly even antisemitism. I don’t think anyone here means it that way, but there is the right wing “base” who receives it that way. It reinforces their idea that Christianity will save the nation and that the US should be a Christian nation.
@HP have you ever looked at gun death statistics? They tell a HUGE story. Suicides are the biggest chunk of gun deaths. Homicides are the next biggest but most of those are gang/crime related. There are lesser accidental and cop-related deaths. The number of homicides by people that are lawful gun owners…that got their guns legally…is very small. And the evil AR-15 is barely a blip on the screen. More people were killed with hands/fists/feet/etc than with a rifle…any type of rifle.
So criminals that get their guns illegally commit most of the homicides. Violent riots have been increasing since the turn of the century. So far we are describing a situation where law abiding citizens are likely victims of gun violence. And you would suggest we disarm them?
I am not suggesting any such thing. I am in fact telling you specifically that it is too late and pointless to disarm citizens or anyone else. It doesn’t matter whether they are criminal, suicidal, etc. I keep telling you that statistics are useless if you expect a man with the intellect of a gopher to interpret them and draw logical conclusions. Do you remember when you were here arguing that covid would be but a minor nuisance like another variant of the flu, parroting the same nonsense of that orange fool of yours? Do you remember that? I told you then you were wrong, and told you what we were in for. And I managed it without a single statistic. So I’m telling you now without a table of data or computer screen to back me up. These shooting incidents will increase in both frequency and severity, and things as they are now are but a mild prelude to what our gun glut will earn us. I will remind you in the future of the discussion we are having now.
@HP ” I keep telling you that statistics are useless if you expect a man with the intellect of a gopher to interpret them and draw logical conclusions. ” No, I don’t expect you to be able to interpret the statistics and draw logical conclusions. I would HOPE you could but has been proven to be a false hope.
” Do you remember when you were here arguing that covid would be but a minor nuisance like another variant of the flu” I have never said any such thing. I have said the efforts that were being put forth to combat it were useless. And if you remember, I backed those up with studies and statistics which I didn’t believe anyone with the intellect of a gopher would read or be able to understand. I was not often let down in that belief.
Yes, I remember you lectured us on the futility of masks along with your other suggestions on business as usual as you rushed off to contract the disease as speedily as you might arrange it.
@KNOWITALL I don’t really believe that we have more deranged or antisocial people than any other society. We do have abysmal mental health protocols, but there are other societies with (if you can believe it) worse mental health options than ourselves, yet are spared our carnage. And the stark indisputable difference between their outcomes and our own is clearly that their troubled and deranged can’t easily lay their hands on a gun. What data or statistics are required to understand that?
@HP As far as I know, I’m the only jelly to have had multiple interactions and conversations with a mass shooter. Convictions matter to Americans and they are willing to die for them.
What we need is exactly what Biden proposed last night, some kind of red flag laws so people like that can be tagged in some way.
As a non gun owner, I used to make a point to concede that I understood the desire for small hand guns (protection, target shooting) and 22 caliber style rifles (for hunting and such). Thus wanting to do away with assault weapons.
Unfortunately, it’s pretty clear that, for a large percentage of the gun owning community, that is simply not good enough.
Parsing through statistics, wanting more firepower, running through hypothetical life/death scenarios, blaming everything but guns on the deaths of innocent people. Enough with this bullshit.
It is SO clear by looking at other countries that very strict gun laws has a direct and positive impact on mass shootings.
One mass shooting per year is one too many.
Repeal the second amendment. Enact very strict gun laws.
Paying for your fucking weapon fetish with the life of even one child is unacceptable. If you don’t see that, you’re the problem.
Fatherlessness in the home, the long term effects of kids being on prescription drugs may also be issues to consider. Also the shear volume of people in the USA (330 million) contributes to the likelihood of that there are more nut cases than far less populated countries like Canada, Australia, South American and European countries.
I don’t own a lethal gun. I own a non-lethal teargas pepper ball CO2 powered hand gun for protection in my home. If someone breaks in then I unload a magazine of pure misery on the intruder and then my wife and I run and call 911. I don’t want to kill anyone.
If we did away of the 2nd amendment and rounded up all the guns then I’d be happy.
I don’t think it is either really, at least, not in the sense that there is one cause and that has a clear-cut legislative solution. I know we want there to be one because mass shootings are distressing and we’d like there to be a law we could pass that could stop them once and for all. For one thing, mass shootings may be the most shocking form of gun violence but they are not the most common form. Most gun violence is still the “inner city” kind (for lack of a better term). It may be easy to ignore if you don’t live in or near such a place, but that kind of violence kills more children than mass shootings at elementary schools. The only person I ever knew who was murdered was killed in that kind of violence (she was dating a gang member, he was targeted by a rival gang, and she was killed by accident).
No, I am not opposed to better gun laws—the Tulsa shooter should not have been able to buy a gun an hour before the shooting. There has to be some way to pick up on the signs of a disturbed individual and not sell them something that can allow them to do great harm. At the same time, I think society shouldn’t alienate someone to the extent that they’re allowed to become a homicidal maniac without anyone noticing. Guns aren’t the only possible difference between our society and other societies. The fact that most of these shooters are socially alienated young men has to mean something. Maybe certain people need to be institutionalized when those red flags show up (the Uvalde shooter killed cats and posted it on social media for crying out loud; it’s not as if there were no signs), as “un-PC” as that may be to suggest.
@Demosthenes Good points. I don’t think anyone advocating for stricter gun laws would disagree with ALSO addressing our mental health crisis, attempting to identify and help potential shooters well before they reach the breaking point, stopping bullying, etc.
The problem is that most of these suggestions are being put forth IN LIEU OF addressing the elephant in the room—the guns.
I do think deterrence is a moronic strategy, mostly because it’s ineffective, and many of these guys are suicidal.
@KNOWITALL The point is that the percentage of us ready to shoot up a playground is miniscule. If there were actually a way to tabulate the total, I’m sure we would all be so terrified by the sum that we would all be glued to our guns. But we’ve all seen the aftermath of these things where it turns out the shooter appeared “normal” or “quiet, introverted, kept to himself, etc.” We are in the middle of an experiment to determine the outcome when the disturbed and frustrated among us have virtual limitless access to powerful weaponry of their choice.
One thing that gets me is this evil AR15 ,it’s not a cheap rifle the cheapest I have found it on line in the states is $1,200
How can a kid that did the Texas shooting afford this rifle?
^Oh no! The FBI and CIA will be watching you now that you were googling that particular item!
The problem is the people, not the guns.
I am in Canada ,they can if they want.
Here in Canada the AR15 is a restricted rifle ,and has to be treated like a hand gun, 1 it has to be registered ,2 it can only be used at a gun range, 3 has to be transported in a locked container ,4 has to be stored in the home in a locked container as well.
@HP Oh I get it, most serial killers are described the same way. I’m very interested in the psychological aspect of murderers.
That’s the other thing involving guns. Every one of us is a potential killer. There literally is no telling which of us will be provoked to snap or when. But I can guarantee you an ample demonstration around the truth of this, and all that is required is a sea of guns. That sea arrived some years ago and it is rising here much faster than our actual oceans. Brace yourselves. It’s going to be quite a show.
Gee if that is true @HP then what stops us from just driving through a crowd of people with our vehicles?
Cmon squeek. You have to know how to drive, and you REALLY have to know how to drive to coaxe a car onto a playground or into a classroom. What’s the easiest and simplest way to wipe out a bunch of kids, or for that matter a bunch of anyone else? You notice the army doesn’t deploy regiments of Toyotas or Teslas. And bullets these days are cheaper than gas.
I know but they don’t like guns, so no one should have guns.
Well now, squeek and wulfie on the same team. But both of you make the mistake of assuming I am against guns. Believe me, when the necessity arrives that I need one to go to the corner store, I will be suitably equipped. Both of you make the mistake of reading my pronouncements as antigun, when it is merely what I believe the truth, and the rather OBVIOUS truth. And neither of you should worry considering this issue. The sheer numbers dictate that the gun lobby and its enthusiasts have won the war. And for you Squeek, our experience will be visiting you soon—count on it! There is no way in hell our pile of weaponry will not spill over the border to the North.
Response moderated (Personal Attack)
And you know squeek the AR 15 is indeed overpriced. But good news! That price is due to plummet. The standard Chinese assault rifle, the type 95 is both dirt cheap and just as lethal.
@HP, if I was unarmed, I’d rather face neither. If I was armed, I think I WOULD rather face someone with a gun than with a car. But once more you poor silly fool, YOU CAN’T BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS AND TRY DODGING WHEN CALLED ON THEM. YOU were the one that tried downplaying the use of a vehicle as a killing machine. You tried ridiculing @SQUEEKY2 with your smarmy attempt at wit. When confronted with multiple examples where it WAS used as a killing machine you suddenly claim nobody cares. It might be easier for all of us if you did just a modicum of research before spewing your all-or-nothing claims and attempts to ridicule others.
What research is required to conclude that we ARE NOT threatened with a mass automobile killing spree epidemic???? And what idiot would believe citations available confirming that we are? I’m not ridiculing squeeky. You on the other hand render ridicule of yourself virtually unavoidable. You are almost too much to bear, let alone tolerate.
@HP, by the statistics, we are not threatened by a mass gun killing spree epidemic either. Once again you make a claim you cannot, and therefore don’t even try to, back up. As I pointed out earlier, hands and feet were used to kill more people than rifles. The shootings that have happened are, indeed, horrors. Not an argument there. But passing more laws that the shooters will just ignore is not the answer. It’s already illegal to own and carry a gun that was not legally obtained. That’s a large number of the shootings. It is illegal to carry a gun onto school grounds in just about all 50 states. That law has been ignored and accounts for another large chunk of the shootings. It is illegal to brandish a firearm. That was ignored. It is illegal to attempt to kill someone with a fire arm. It is illegal to harm someone with a firearm. It is illegal to kill someone. All these laws are purposely ignored by the shooters.
You say I bring ridicule onto myself. Yet I am bringing facts to the table. So you feel facts are worthy of ridicule and your blithe, untrue, misinformation claims are the good thing? Maybe you need to look at your belief system…it seems akilter.
Fool, do you not understand that I agree 100% with your position that there is no retarding the wave of mass shootings through further restrictions on gun ownership. Every word I have written here has been to that effect, you insufferable dummy! Yet in the face of this indisputable fact you insist that I advovate such measures. For once in your life PAY ATTENTION. IT IS TOO LATE TO EFFECTIVELY CONTROL EITHER GUN POSSESSION OR OWNERSHIP in the United States. NO statistics are required to assert this or justify MY reasoning. The accumulating bullet ridden bodies SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I have not once advocated here or anywhere else for any attempts at stricter gun control for the simple reason that the number of guns in circulation render any such attempt an exercise in futility. To me, the only fault I find with pro gun advocates is the stupidity displayed by those such as yourself, who upon receiving news of another pile of bullet riddled corpses, insult my intelligence with “guns don’t kill people”. THAT, just as yourself, is just plain honest to God STUPID.
So you agree there are lots and lots of guns. Hundreds of millions of privately owned guns. So if it was the guns that killed the people, then there would be at least an equal number of shootings. So it isn’t the guns that kill people. So who does? and why? Those are the questions of this thread. Spewing on about a sea of guns isn’t answering the questions. You might as well wear a sandwich board in NYC that says “The End Is NEAR!”. You don’t do that, do you?
@seawulf575 “So if it was the guns that killed the people, then there would be at least an equal number of shootings.”
You realize how absurd this premise is, right? For guns to be problematic, every gun must be responsible for at least one mass shooting?
Attacking the firearm isn’t ever going to work no matter what.
People have to be better vetted to prove they are safe to own a firearm.
The kid that shot up the school in Texas started saying he was going to shoot up a school ,when he was 14,no body paid any kind of attention, at 18 he bought his gun legally and shot up a school an horrific event and it was the guns fault.
And the saying no one should own a gun, just in case they one day snap and go on a killing spree.
Really?? is your mental state that fragile that if you had a gun you could see yourself killing innocent people?
If so then please don’t ever buy a gun.
I have been extremely angry at times in my life and never once did I think I should take my guns and shoot up the public.
Forget about whether or not I am attacking guns. Where is the flaw in my reasoning? Does anyone truly believe that the fact that we have more guns is irrelevant to rising employment of those guns toward massed shootings? Who here joins wulfie in the belief that unless I provide statistics, there is no such thing as a shooting epidemic? Is it mere speculation or opinion? Are the near daily reports of mass shootings in fact further proof of “leftist liberal bias” against guns? Are these incidents increasing, dwindling or steady? Why all the questions HERE on the topic? I can’t be behind them all.
I do see your point,there is a sea of guns in the us,and that scares all anti-gunners, the problem isn’t the sea of guns the problem is how easy it is to obtain a gun.
For someone that has proven themselves safe to own a firearm I could care less if they have 50 plus guns.
For someone that isn’t safe it scares the shit out of me if they have only one.
@SQUEEKY2 “For someone that has proven themselves safe to own a firearm I could care less if they have 50 plus guns.”
What about Stephen Paddock? He passed every background check, and was your ordinary, Trump-loving, conservative with an arsenal of guns and ammunition.
So one got through so no one should own guns?
If that is the example ,because a few choose to drink and drive no one should have alcohol?
Because of speeding accidents no one should own a fast car?
I don’t have an answer, why ANYONE would pick up a firearm and shoot unarmed innocent strangers.
YOU are never going to get all the firearms out of private hands,but making sure people are properly vetted to own them is a start .
Tell me what good is a law against firearms, isn’t shooting people against the law as well?
And look at how well that works.
Part of the reason I simply can’t take people seriously who only focus on AR-15s is their vast ignorance
on the facts and the most basic knowledge on what they’re lashing out against. Knives were 3X more likely than rifles of any kind to be a murder weapon. Yet, they will ignore handguns which were the #1 murder weapon by far. If it’s black and military-scary looking then that’s where they’ll be lead to action as if a moth to a flame.
@SQUEEKY2 “So one got through so no one should own guns?”
I never said no one should own guns. I’m saying the kinds of guns he had were part of the problem. He killed 60 and injured 867 people. The only reason he didn’t kill more is because he committed suicide the body count could have easily been much higher. All of the weapons he used were legal.
@Blackwater_Park Impeccable logic. I think in 2021 only one kid died from a grenade. Ergo make hand grenades legal? Nobody died of a nuclear weapon last year, legalize them?
@gorillapaws You can’t buy any of the things you mentioned. AR-15s are some of the most commonly sold and owned firearms in the United States. The sheer number of them out there is hard to comprehend. Like tens of millions.
@gorillapaws It would be better stated that how easy he acquired it was part of the problem.
But nothing constructive will ever be done in your country, as regards to these firearm shootings because both sides are deemed to want to much so nothing ever happens .
This 18 year old was a problem ,he needed medical help ,to deal with his mental health issues,these shooters are a problem they need help,so they don’t hurt innocent people.
The problem is ease of access to automatic and semi auto weapons to anyone, regardless of their age or mental stability, or whether or not they might be a felon. Just sell them the gun, make the money, Devil take the hind most. If you need an AR 15 to hunt, you probably use dynamite to fish.
@gorillapaws I owe you a bit of an apology I don’t like the gun being blamed for whack jobs shooting sprees, but it is an assault style rifle and the media just loves to hype on it.
Up here it is treated by law like a hand gun highly restricted and can only be used at target ranges that allow restricted guns, a couple of friends own one and I have shot them at the range the gun is very comfortable to shoot and is fun at THE RANGE but up here they are very expensive going for over 2 grand Canadian.
Up here we have to renew our P.A.L every five years (possession-acquisition-license) and we have to put down 2 references,one can be your spouse the other and they give you a list of who it can be,just off the top a police officer, your boss, a lawyer, priest, doctor and so on and the cops do check with them and ask if they have any problems with you having a firearm.
You guys need something similar in the states.
Our Government just put a freeze on hand gun sales if you have them you can keep them but you can’t trade or sell them.
@gorillapaws I DO know how foolish that premise sounds. But that is the idea behind the claim that guns kill people. As soon as you stop looking at the tool and look at the person and figure out why they think it would be okay to go kill someone, you can get somewhere.
@SQUEEKY2 Screening people is okay, but the problem is, once again, the government. Take a look at Nikolas Cruz…the Parkland shooter. This kid was in trouble for years before the shooting. He was arrested for a number of crimes that would have negated him from owning a firearm. Yet he bought one legally, complete with background check. How? Well it stems from the Obama-driven idea that we have to stop sentencing kids for their crimes. So every time Mr. Cruz was arrested he was released with no charges being filed. He fought with other students. He broke toilets and windows in the school. He was a terror to all those around him. The school banned him from bringing a backpack to school because the students and staff were scared of him. He was in an out of mental health institutions most of his life. Yet per the progressive policy we can’t stigmatize this kid by actually holding him accountable for his behavior, so we have to just let him go over and over again. So he goes to buy a gun. They get his information and do a background check and it comes up clean…because nothing was ever logged as we didn’t want to stigmatize him. Then he goes on a shooting spree. Afterwards, when it came out this nut job was never charged with any crimes even though he had been repeatedly arrested and WHY that was, the school, the school board, and the Obama administration stood by their policy, refusing to see that was a key into the shooting.
So progressive, SJW ideals allowed a troubled youth to legally buy a gun, complete with a screening. Screening only works if you put data into the system to be found on that screening.
@Nomore_Tantrums AR-15s are generally too weak to be a game hunting rifle without being chambered in something other than a .223 or 5.56. They are often used for pesting medium sized things like feral hogs.
@SQUEEKY2 “I have shot them at the range the gun is very comfortable to shoot and is fun at THE RANGE”
I’ve shot them too, as well as AK’s. They are fun. They’re also terrifyingly effective at what they do. Compared to the kick from a shotgun, these things put lead on targets extremely accurately and effortlessly.
It makes sense. They’re based on the military version, which was designed to take an 18-year-old draftee who’d never held a firearm and allow him to effectively fight Charlie in the jungle in a short period of time. You can see how in Ukraine there are civilians that have only ever fired a few rounds that are now taking weapons like these and doing a damn good job fighting back against the Russian army.
Who here predicts that these incidents will not rise in frequency among us? Why were there no battleground drills in the schools I or my children attended, yet parents today are alarmed and fear for their kids? Who actually expects the government capable of predicting which of us will leave the tracks of sanity next? Is it reasonable to expect the government to achieve such a goal? Who believes it unlikely that shooting incidents will escalate in a land distinguished for its exploding gun proliferation? Once again, I am not advocating the confiscation of weapons from either registered owners or hopeless lunatics. And without a single citation or statistic, I am asking each of you in such a situation, what should a sensible person expect?
Just why?
Is it rising they say it is, what is causing these people to shoot unarmed innocent people, antigun people blame the gun and how easy it is to obtain one, gee if that truly is the answer then with that logic there should be multiple shootings daily.
@SQUEEKY2 ”...with that logic there should be multiple shootings daily.”
The US has had 243 mass shootings since Jan 1 this year. That’s more than 1.5 mass shootings per day.
There were 610 in 2021.
What causes someone to pick up a gun and shoot unarmed innocent strangers, plus knowing full well they themselves probably won’t live through it as well?
I think there’s some small percentage of people who are genetically predisposed to this kind of thing. Some may live out their lives and never hurt a fly, while others may experience certain life events (abuse, bullying, etc.) or environmental triggers that sets them down a path towards misanthropic rage. In some countries such people grab the deadliest tool they have access to (a knife) and start hacking away. It’s not a new phenomena either. I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase “running amok.” That comes from a Malaysian phenomena that’s hundreds of years old.
The thing is, when someone snaps like that, the more deadly the tools the guy has access to, the more damage he can do. Frankly, I’m surprised the body counts have been so low given what can be acquired with no questions asked at a gunshow. One can buy a .50cal semi-auto anti-material rifle, park outside the end of a runway sniping pilots on takeoff, drive away (John Allen Muhammad style) and repeat.
That’s EXACTLY right. What society does not have its sociopaths? What society can claim to identify them all? Which of us is immune to crossing the line, if but momentarily to the behavior of a sociopath? Should you have a gun available for those times? And if you recognize that the sheer numbers more or less insure guns ALWAYS available, what is there left to consider involving our probable future?
Here is a little video about the AR15
https://youtu.be/4a4Iazw9J3k
It basically is a weapon of war, your only chance is if the Government offers a buy back program.
Other than that you never will get them totally out of the public’s hands, what bothers me is innocent gun owners have to pay for whack jobs crime sprees
@SQUEEKY2 “what bothers me is innocent gun owners have to pay for whack jobs crime sprees”
I would be fine with gun clubs where the weapons are kept locked up and folks can shoot stuff on a range all they want. Hell, I’d be cool with fully-auto weapons in such places if people want to blow through hundreds of dollars in ammo.
Maybe the average gun owner has to realise some compromises have to be met, a defender 12 gauge is fine for home security,weapons of war should be stored at a secure place.
What gets me again is the people that seem to want to just ban guns, defend entertainment violence.
Yes violence has been in movies and TV for as long as we remember, but it wasn’t even half as graphic as it is today,which I think has a real desensitising affect on young people.
Same with video games, you shot someone and they just disappeared off the game now adays you see blood and guts galore.
@SQUEEKY2 “Yes violence has been in movies and TV for as long as we remember, but it wasn’t even half as graphic as it is today,which I think has a real desensitising affect on young people.”
If your hypothesis were true, then we’d be seeing the desensitizing effects on young people in other countries that watch the same films/shows and play the same video games. But we really don’t see that happening abroad—certainly not at the same frequency/intensity as in the US.
I agree. Kids everywhere and particularly the boys are obsessed with violent movies, video games, etc. Any factor you care to name, can be resolved one way or another. But there is only the one BIG one unique to US alone, that we all attempt for some reason to get around. We must face it and accept the probable future it implies. The question of what makes someone willing to take up a gun to shoot others is not nearly as pertinent as to such an individual’s ready access to a gun when that moment arrives.
As a practical matter, if we agree that a surplus of weaponry exists in the United States and is growing, is there actually any possibilty of those weapons being rounded up or even reduced? I believe the best we might hope for, would be those registered weapons joining their much larger unregistered family underground.
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