What are the arguments for and against open and concealed carry?

Hate (not really) to be that guy, but I’d go for no guns.
Open carry, and/or concealed.

I remember that some twenty years ago military police was walking around the airport with what looked to me like automatic weapons.
That was a major shock for me.
Imagining my neighbor in the elevator going down with me and they might be carrying??
Enough to almost make me throw up.

As a gun owner, I really have no great desire to open or conceal carry. But I will likely get my concealed carry permit because of gun regulations. In my area it is considered concealed carry if a cop cannot see the gun itself.

When I moved down here I did some research and was very confused by what I found. So I went to the Sheriff’s dept to ask about some of the gun laws. Where they concealed carry came into play was, for me, transporting a gun. They told me concealed was just that…if a cop couldn’t see it, it was considered concealed. I asked the scenario…what if I am going to the shooting range and the gun is in the gun case? If the cop can’t see it, it is concealed. What if it is locked in the trunk? If the cop can’t see it, it’s concealed. But if I have it in the case and the case is open? If the cop can see it, it’s not concealed.

There are too many ways that concealed could be interpreted. So getting a concealed carry permit makes more sense. So idiotic regulation is a argument for concealed carry permits and for open carry.

Carry concealed. There are not a lot of benefits to carry open. If you are legally carrying it’s nobody’s business except for you. Open carry makes some people nervous. It’s generally something only a jackass does.

Depends on the state but most don’t have “concealed” carry permits. They are mostly just “carry” permits that allow someone to have one on their person or transport them in a state that is not disabled.

Question: in a state that doesn’t have concealed carry laws, but people can own guns, can they carry their guns out in the open any time they want to? Except in places that specifically say no guns allowed. When I lived in Memphis there were signs in bars “no guns,” and my husband’s employee handbook had rules against bringing a gun to work. They stated it “your” gun to work. Like everyone owns one, which stood out to my husband.

@Blackwater_Park Many many years ago I saw this show where a woman who had been raped previously bought a gun, because she worked late and had to go to the parking lot on her own to go to her car. The state didn’t allow concealed carry, so every night she had her gun in her hand when she made the short walk from the store to her car.

I would hope anyone wanting to attack her would see the gun and think twice. Although, who knows if they would notice, it was a small gun.

The laws are a patchwork and at times contradictory. Sometimes police don’t even fully understand them. For example, in Tennessee it is now legal to carry open or concealed without a permit when previously you needed one. There are various reciprocity agreements between states to honor each other’s permits. Once someone legally carrying without a permit crosses state lines they have committed a crime. In Tennessee businesses can post no guns allowed and you cannot carry in their establishment. You can carry in a national park but many state parks don’t allow it. In the city it’s illegal to discharge a firearm but in the county you can. Most people are so very ignorant of the laws. A good number of the laws sound good on paper but either don’t do a thing or are complete nonsense. Then there are places where we desperately need laws and don’t have them. An example would be laws criminalizing silencers. Sounds good right? There is nothing silent about a silencer. It’s still loud as hell. It won’t hide a thing. That’s a Hollywood fabrication. In reality it’s a safety device that makes hearing protection more effective and reduces the noise footprint for others in the general area. It should be encouraged. Another is there were no laws banning bump stocks. They come from a loophole in the law that allowed a clever hack to make a rifle near full auto. Should have never happened. People are just to misinformed or ignorant to understand.

@JLeslie It varies from state to state. When I was in FL back in the 80’s, they had a “1 step” law about carrying a concealed weapon in your car. If you had a loaded gun in a cigar case next to you on the seat, that was legal because there was at least 1 step to reach it…you’d have to lift the lid. That was the action that was considered the step.

At the end of the day, the planet is the wild west and you can’t really tell anyone they can’t defend themselves.

But I don’t trust civilians with guns at all. It seems like it’s all a joke to them and to look cool and because they know they want to start fights and have a way to “win” the fight they escalated in the first place.

Just like how martial artists actually have discipline and usually never want to actually fight on the street, yet non martial artists just want to fight.

I’d rather states make a large network of training schools and civilians have to graduate from just like college.

If people go to a 2 year training program, sure, but that’ll never happen.

@Blackberry The vast majority of gun owners never want to use them. For every jackass with a gun, or gun nut rolled up in the toxic part of the culture there are 500 who are not. You just don’t know it because they are being, um.. responsible. People carry guns around you all the time and you would never know. It does not take two years of training to carry responsibly and safely. It takes days. Many, if not most gun owners do get permits and that does require classroom and live training at the range. It also requires another layer of background checks. Many states actually require you to be finger printed. In my state the whole process takes a little longer than 90 days.

@Blackwater_Park “For every jackass with a gun, or gun nut rolled up in the toxic part of the culture there are 500 who are not. You just don’t know it because they are being, um.. responsible.”

I’d wager 100% of gun owners (or nearly so) believe themselves to be responsible. I’d also wager that a surprisingly large percent aren’t actually responsible (if we were to follow them around with hidden cameras to see where they screw up). I’m with @Blackberry:

“But I don’t trust civilians with guns at all. ”

I think confidence is high but in a dangerously large percent of gun owners, the competence is low. Just look at people driving and how many horrible drivers are on the road that believe themselves to be good drivers.

@gorillapaws Well, I disagree. You would probably be shocked at the level of responsibility most gun owners have. You’re an outsider to that “culture” and thus really only see the jackasses out there. You also likely only see the vocal, toxic part of the gun culture. We roll our eyes at those people also. I’ll go a step further, they’re hated by us. When I say “us” I mean gun owners who go about our business, safely, without being political about it and use them for their intended purpose. Sometimes that’s hunting, sometimes it’s a layer of delf defense, sometimes it’s sporting and competitions. There really are a lot of very good, responsible drivers out there too. Same thing, you only notice the bad apples. It’s textbook confirmation bias.

@Blackwater_Park “I mean gun owners who go about our business, safely, without being political about it and use them for their intended purpose.”

You mean like Travis George? If we were to approach 100 random gun owners and ask them if they were 100% sure their weapons were clear of all ammo and then actually check them—what percent do you think would be wrong? There’s something like 30,000 gun accidents every year that get reported. For every person that accidentally shots themself in the leg, how many close calls are there that never get reported?

“You would probably be shocked at the level of responsibility most gun owners have.”

Not at all. I think more than half of the ~82.7M gun owners in the US are probably very responsible. I also think there are likely tens of millions of American gun owners who believe themselves to be responsible gun owners with high degrees of confidence (like I’m sure Travis George thought) that actually aren’t.

Accidents do happen, it’s rare but it does happen. Out of 100? Statistically, probably zero. Perhaps one on a really bad day.

“If we were to approach 100 random gun owners and ask them if they were 100% sure their weapons were clear of all ammo and then actually check them—what percent do you think would be wrong? ” Two things with this: It assumes they want their gun loaded. There are those that want their guns loaded when they are in the house. The other thing that is wrong with this statement is that it once again assumes the evil gun will get up and shoot someone if it isn’t unloaded. If my gun is sitting in my closet and has a bullet in the chamber, it means nothing. When I pull my gun out to go somewhere with it, do I check it then? Why yes I do. Because I never assume the gun is unloaded until I check. And that is the attitude of most of the gun owners out there.

But I’m with @Blackwater_Park here with the one proviso. Out of 100 gun owners asked that thought their guns were unloaded, if you then checked you’d find they were. Most gun owners verify their guns are unloaded when they are stored.

To my mind, the issue of concealed or open carry is supefluous to what matters. It is equivalent to arguments for or against wearing clothes. Clothed or unclothed is irrelevant in any discussion around population exceeding critical mass.

@gorillapaws @Blackwater_Park
Good points by all. It’s not a black and white issue.

This just depends on where you live. If I was in a fancy suburb with Jamba Juice everywhere, I would never even bother with a weapon compared to hanging out in some sunset town in the midwest for example.

@seawulf575 If there are about 30,000 gun accidents a year that get reported because there’s a trip to the hospital involved, how many near misses do you think there are per year where nobody was injured? In other words, if there is an accidental firing of a gun, what percent of the time do you think someone gets hit?

So there are roughly 300 million cars in the USA. Last year nearly 40,000 people lost their lives in car crashes. That’s not even hospitalizations or crashes. That’s lives lost. There are roughly the 300 million guns here also.

I don’t think the car analogy is good. You would have to look at how many people are actively driving, and during driving hours how often is there an accident. If people had their gun with them as much as people drive, there would be more gun accidents and more purposeful gun violence.

It’s not about which has the higher number, it’s that society accepts a certain amount of risk for the activities that we do. It’s in everything: travel, our food supply, sporting events, employment, leisure, etc. While horrible, a handful of accidents every now and then is not really out of line with everyday life.

@Blackwater_Park Yeah, but 20 school children blasted beyond recognition should be “really out of line with everyday life.”

@janbb That is completely off topic here. Yes, that’s different. A.K.A. not normal. Murder is not an accident.

I agree with @HP. And I’m comfortable with open or conceal carry, here.

@gorillapaws Where do you get your data? I’ve looked and can’t find your 30,000 number anywhere. Let me see where it came from and then we can discuss it.

@Blackwater_Park has the right answer about comparing to car safety as well. Even comparing your 30,000 accidental shooting number, not all of those die. Only somewhere in the area of 400 people actually die from accidental shootings each year. Meanwhile, almost 100x as many die in automobile accidents. Somewhere in the area of 6.9M automobile accidents happen each year. So statistically it is FAR more likely you will have an accident and cause a death driving an automobile as opposed to owning a gun. But we, for some reason, believe that is acceptable because guns are evil and cars are not.

It doesn’t matter if persons are concealing their guns or not. I feel safer just knowing guns are around.

Yes and it’s a wonderful attribute that in the fruitful bounties of democracy, their plentitude guarantees the least of us, by whatever measure you care to list, equal opportunity regarding their acquisition. No one is in effect deprived of their sacred right to enter the school yard competition of “So You Think You can Shoot”

Any person who is accused of a crime is held to be innocent until proven guilty. Likewise, no person should be assumed to be dangerous to society if they happen to carry a firearm. It’s un-American.

That’s true. And I am going to recommend to the guy habitually talking to the parking meter in front of my local supermarket that he acquire a firearm to defend himself and the rest of us from said meter.

@kritiper that is entirely true. That is how it is supposed to work. But that isn’t how the Democrats are trying to make things work. Part of the ACA tried to have doctors ask patients about their gun ownership. The idea was that if your doctor didn’t like guns he could report you were showing signs of depression and your guns could be taken. Guilty until you prove you are innocent. Red Flag laws are likewise following the same pattern only this time your ex-wife could claim you were unstable and that you had guns and they could take your guns until you can prove your innocence. Shoot, “If you see something, say something” sets the table for exactly this sort of thing.

But I misspoke: It isn’t just Dems. Repubs go along with many of these bravo sulu ideas too.