What is the origin of Latinx?

Nothing to do with Malcolm X. It is supposed to be a gender neutral term for Latinos, as opposed to Latinos and Latinas. I would assume some group of Latinos created it. I have read that some in that group prefer it and many don’t so I personally am ambivalent about using it.

It is just idiocy run amuck. The word Latin is already gendered neutral. You could also say latinos which becomes gender neutral when referring to a group that contains males and females. For example. If I was talking about my family, I would say, somos latinos. We are Latins. I object. I feel it was created by someone who doesn’t understand how spanish words work. You don’t see the french changing Francais and Francaise to Francaisex, because it’s stupid. It is also still not a thing. All the Latinos I know won’t use it.

Ditto what @Pandora wrote.

It is not idiotic. Although the terms latino and latina are widely accepted they may exclude people who identify as queer, nonbinary or trans. By saying what they prefer is “idiotic” is transphobic and ultimately really no better than people like Josh Hawley, Jordon Peterson or JK Rowling. People have a right to be referred to how they prefer, and if someone prefers latinx, I’m certianly not going to say they’re idiotic.

No my point is that Latino and latin are nonbinary words already. When people use the word they, they don’t say theyx do they? People decided to use an already non-binary word that existed. Latino and latin both speak to race without saying boy or girl. Trying to say I am the same is incorrect. Is there a Whitex, a blackx, an asianx. No, because those words are already nonbinary. So why specifically a latinx? You can refer them as latin they if you so desire. But I’ll wait till all the nonbinary races have an x added to the end and suddenly Theyx becomes a thing. Why change an already nonbinary word? I have absolutely no problem with nonbinary identification. I just don’t see it was necessary to take an already nonbinary word to add and x at the end. Explain why its necessary. Maybe I’m missing something, but I truly doubt it.

@Pandora You make sense.

I wonder who is pushing it? It reminds me of all those years so many white people were offended if another white person said Black instead of African American even when Black people still used Black. Then, eventually, Black people themselves wrote BLACK LIVES MATTER on streets and t-shirts showing they really are ok with the word. So who was pushing African American to the point that the word Black was seen as borderline derogatory?

Is it still ok to use Latina, Latino, Latin, Hispanic, and Latin American? Will LatinX be put on the census?

Someone invented Brown too. Who is Brown? I never heard that growing up, it’s not on the census. My husband is White and Brown. Also, West Asians are White, while East and South Asians are Asian, but West and South Asians are Brown. It’s crazy.

My husband is Mexican and I asked him what he thinks about the term LatinX and he replied, “I don’t give a s**t.” Mostly, that means he’s busy watching TV don’t disturb him, but also I think he doesn’t care one way are the other.

I’ve never heard anyone say, “I’m LatinX.”

Latino is not a nonbinary word. It is a masculine word. Again, people deserve respect to be called what they prefer.

@JLeslie I hear people refer to themselves as latinx frequently.

@Pandora – For as long as I remember, people have always used Latino/Latina and Chicano/Chicana. It’s frustrating to have gender-specific words, so that was the intention behind LatinX. It’s awkward, sure. But it’s the result of attempting to shape language to be more inclusive and specific.

It’s also important to remember that there are people who aren’t gender binary. How do they refer to themselves?

EDIT: What @Caravanfan said.

Also, it’s important to not consider a word “good” or “bad” because a majority of the people use it or not. If some people feel it’s useful, then what’s the harm? The conservative talking point is that most Latinos/Latinas do not use the term, so it’s being forced on them by liberal elites pushing a gay/trans agenda. Why don’t we try to not adopt the conservative framing every single time.

Exactly. I don’t particulary like the term “latinx”. I agree with @hat that it’s awkward. But I also have a good friend whose daughter refers to themselves as they/them. They are obviously phenotypically female (have cool hair, wear makeup, have breasts, wear dresses, etc) but see themselves as nonbinary. Sometimes when I am talking to them I slip and I refer to the gender specific pronoun, but they appreciate the effort. It’s awkward, but it shows respect. Same with latinx. If someone wants to have themselves referred as latinx I will do it, awkward or not.

I lived in California in the 90s for a year, and knew a few women who referred to themselves as Chicanas and men who referred to themselves as Chicanos. That’s fine. But what about non-binary, and what is it about making language more inclusive makes people push back? It’s expected for conservative maniacs. But self-declared liberals making the same noise seems odd to me.

“Chicano” and “Latino” are slightly different. Chicano is generally referred to Mexican Americans living in the US. Latino is anybody from Latin America. For example, an American El Salvadorian probably would not describe himself as Chicano.

^ Very familiar with Chicano/Chicana vs Latino/Latina. My point was that using gender-specific language isn’t helpful, and requires all kinds of parenthetical exceptions and slashes.

@Caravanfan: “For example, an American El Salvadorian probably would not describe himself as Chicano.”

Of course not. They’re not Mexican-American.

Let’s just make things as confusing as possible so someone is always doing something
illegal. Lets just add a million more volumes of laws to make us happy.

^ Trying to make things less confusing doesn’t = more confusing. What the shit are you talking about?

I was going to use the word “fuck” instead of “shit” but yes.

So, @WhyNow, are you no longer out of touch?

@hat Very familiar with Chicano/Chicana vs Latino/Latina

Right, sorry. I should have known you would know that. I thought you were interchanging “Latino” and “Chicano”. My mistake.

@hat, they can still refer to themselves as latin or even latino. In spanish male specific words is the fallback word and it doesn’t need to mean male. Ellos son Latino. Translates to they are Latin. Somos Latino. Translates to we are Latin. No one believes a mesa (table) actually has a sex. But when you write out a sentence, like yo tengo una mesa, you are saying I have a table. Not I have a female table. My point is even if they (agendered) people of Latin origins want to use a gender-neutral word, then the word Latin already exists if Latino is still not enough. But the word Latinos applies to everyone so sex is not really being used in the description.

Latinos means both women and men in a group. Some people will say Latinos and Latinas when referring to the group, it’s like using niños for a group of children containing both genders.

Maybe LatinX is like adding Ms. to the language.

I don’t mind if people want to use LatinX, people can use whatever they want, but I agree with @Pandora, it’s unnecessary and we don’t see it in other descriptions of other ethnicities, nationalities, or race. Judíos is Jewish people in Spanish, are Spanish speaking countries now going to use JudiosX?

I never used the word Hispanic very much, because I think it’s technically inaccurate a lot of the time, but I know it’s commonly used, I usually use Latin American or the country the person is from. Maybe “they” whoever they are, are trying to get away from the word Hispanic?

@hat I’ve never heard the conservatives talk about it. I’m a Democrat who has lived around Latin Americans my entire life and am married to one and I am fairly proficient in Spanish. That’s the problem with @Pandora and me, we speak some Spanish. She might be fluent, I don’t know.

@Caravanfan I’ve only heard used to describe the group, I have heard someone say it to describe themselves. Most Latin Americans I know say things like, “I’m from Uruguay,” or, “my mom is from Argentina.” You’re in a very liberal place, so maybe they are happy to adopt the new words faster. Maybe you have fewer recent immigrants from Latin America also? I really don’t know. I agree with you if the group themselves wants to use the word then who am I to say no.

@Pandora Ellos son Latinos. Latino would usually describe a male, but the plural is a group of males and females. Latin or Latin American in English is both genders too.

@WhyNow That’s exactly what the Republicans are doing, adding laws so someone is always doing something wrong, and it’s difficult to keep up with it all. Laws about voting, laws about medical procedures, laws about crossing state lines.

@Demosthenes I’ve been told I live in an ivory tower by my professor. I saw the
world of woke scratching it’s way even into my alma mater. It seemed to me the
term Latinx was the latest method of the left to subjugate Latinos just to keep them
herded into the dem party.

This very aware site confirmed my thoughts. About being herded. About
allowing dems to create a bloc of minorities. About so easily accepting a label.
And trying to be glib about it.

@WhyNow I don’t see how using LatinX herds anyone. Plenty of Latin Americans are Republicans, using LatinX won’t change that.

@Caravanfan @hat I always think of Chicano as derogatory, is it? It would never occur to me to use the word, and if someone called my husband Chicano it would feel very strange.

@JLeslie ‘laws about voting’ You’re implying showing ID to vote is so frivolous just to be
a ‘gotcha’ law. I say thinking minorities can’t get IDs is racism!

‘laws about medical procedures’ Some people (not me) see it as killing yet you with
all your implied empathy see it as banal. You are so woke to a women’s discomfort
that you’re just blind to other points of view? You are a conservative!

Well I guess it’s a done deal! Talking heads talking about the LatinX vote.

Remember. If you don’t vote for Joe Biden you ain’t no LatinX.

@Pandora – Where does “latinas” fall into this? Is there a difference between Latinos and Latinas? What scenario would you use Latinos rather than Latinas to refer to a group of women?

As an aside, apparently Xicanx is form of Chicano/a/x.

@Pandora Yes, grammatical gender and biological gender are not the same thing. It’s an Anglocentric view to say that “Latinos” means “male”. Masculine nouns in the plural function as gender-neutral nouns in most Indo-European languages with grammatical gender.

@WhyNow If you look back at many of my old answers I’ve never been against ID to vote in person, I think that is a made up issue easily solved by ensuring everyone can get free ID if they don’t already have a valid ID.

I was a fertility patient for years and I know all too well what can go wrong during pregnancy, and limiting access to healthcare during pregnancy is TERRIFYING to me, and should be to everyone who wants to have a baby or loves someone who might ever become pregnant.

Add on this idea that crossing a state line to have an abortion could be illegal is insanity. Any Republican for states’ rights should be completely against prohibiting women from crossing state lines.

Your word woke I do not identify with. Maybe you haven’t been here long enough, but I tend to be a fairly moderate Democrat.

@hat Latinas is a group of Latin females.

@JLeslie And that’s why everybody here LOVES you. Tho I am in the LIKE you crowd
just now.

@WhyNow Plenty of people here don’t like me.

@Demosthenes Exactly right.
@Hat If someone asked you what type of people lived in your spanish neighborhood, you would reply, Ellos son latinos. Or son latinos Not Ellos son latinos and latinas y latinx. Latino in this context becomes gender neutral. If it were all female and you wanted to be specific then you would say latinas or both.

That’s the issue, @Pandora for many people the word “latinos” is not gender neutral. It’s masculine. There are those who seek gender neutrality and prefer the gender neutral form of latinx. What’s the big deal?

Is there a plural form of Latinx, and if so, what is it?

@Brian1946 No, Latinx is both a singular and pleural. As I said before, I don’t particularly like the term myself. But I accept that people do.

@Caravanfan: “What’s the big deal?”

Exactly. I don’t understand the pushback. Well, technically I do understand the pushback from some who want to maintain rigid, outdated gender norms and deny the existence of certain people.

And really, I don’t care. I try to use language that people prefer. And I also try (far from perfect) to adjust to make sure I’m not unnecessarily excluding or alienating people when I use outdated language.

So, what words do we have here?

Singular:
– latina (woman)
– latino (man)

Plural:
– latinas (group of women)
– latinos (group of men)

From a non-Spanish language speaker, this is the usage I have always known and was taught. I understand that some people around here will use “latinos” to refer to people generally, but I can see why people who don’t conform to specific gender or want to downplay the use of male-dominant language would strive towards something more gender neutral.

@Pandora – I understand what you are saying, and I’m not downplaying the fact that you are a native Spanish speaker. But I’m not sure being a native Spanish speaker necessarily means that non-binary Spanish speakers are wrong for wanting to use gender-neutral pronouns.

@Caravanfan, The big deal for me is I feel this was probably created by some white person who doesn’t understand the language. I understand being inclusive but Latin already is inclusive. Latinos (which is group of latino- not exclusively meaning group of only males all the time) is only confusing among non-native speakers. So why not use Latin or latins for plural? Although not properly used, I can live with that. Read what @Demosthenes wrote.

Btw, I’ve gone to Latin Festivals. Not latina and latino festivals.

What about the sentence “all men are created equal?” Isn’t it understood that means all people except to maybe some religious right fanatic? I know there is a push to change some of these documents to gender neutral, but we can also push that “men” means “all” on those documents.

We could have educated Americans that the plural masculine form in the Spanish language means both genders, or all genders, all included. I mean, the country is nearing 20% Latin Americans, Spanish is a good language to understand if you live in the US, even if just some basics.

This is why I wondered if the people who call themselves LatinX are second generation American or more, and maybe barely even speak Spanish, or maybe the LGBTQ community is more likely to use it? I really don’t know. I’m going to send the Q to tinyfaery.

I wonder if any Latin American countries are pushing to always write the masculine and feminine rather than just the masculine plural for a mixed group of people.

@Pandora I’m not taking sides here; I can see the issue a lot through a lot of lenses. But “Latin” is an adjective (or a noun as a language) and Latino is a collective noun. They are used differently.

The main issue that I do agree with is that people in an in-group get to decide and/or change what they collectively wish to be called. If individuals prefer to be called something different than the larger group, I will always try to remember and respect that.

@janbb You are correct. Latino or Latin isn’t a race. It is used as such but it isn’t. There is no land that was ever called Latin. And Latinos compromise a large group that is different from Hispanics and yet similar. All are a mix of different races. Personally, I prefer being called Puerto Rican American or Puerto Rican.

@Pandora Sounds good to me! :-)

My only problem as a republican here would be government enforcement of any
regulations regarding use of pronouns.

@WhyNow: “My only problem as a republican here would be government enforcement of any regulations regarding use of pronouns.”

In what universe – other than Sean Hannity fiction hour – would such a thing exist? Come on.

@all I first heard the term used by Latinx queer authors of South American descent. This is how they referred to themselves. It wasn’t from Anglo authors.

https://news.yahoo.com/column-term-latinx-wasnt-made-111050762.html

Many years ago I started using he/she more often, because people didn’t like the assumption of he for many things, especially professions like doctors, lawyers, etc. We could have evolved the language for he to mean either gender like the word actor is now used for both men and women. The masculine form of the word means all genders.

We aren’t consistent with how we handle these things. Some sci-fi shows and movies the high ranking females are addressed as sir.

@Caravanfan Okay so I research it and it does seem to have come from South America but there may have been some confusion in the pronunciation. This is why apparently even the word latines exist. If you say la teen nes it can sound like latin x. At least that makes a little bit more sense to me. I still think it isn’t necessary though.

@hat How about it starts in Canada C-16, come on man.

@Pandora For you, as a cis person you may feel it isn’t necessary. For transgender individuals it is more important so I choose to respect their choices.

@WhyNow – Fair enough. I’m not in Canada and don’t have time to read this. But you’re right. We have the Florida Republican “don’t say gay” bill, so I guess it’s possible.

But this conversation is not about that. It’s about minimizing your confusion. You stated that language was confusing, and that attempts to clarify language to be more accurate were making things more confusing. Has any of the discussion since then been enlightening? Do you understand the concept any better?

Oh, Latines, that makes sense and the possible confusion with the pronunciation LatinX. Oy. Lol.

Found this: https://www.history.com/news/hispanic-latino-latinx-chicano-background

@hat Understand maybe . Accept yes!

This just goes to show you that Latinos/Latinas/Chicanos/Chicanas/Hispanics/LatinX are not a monolithic group.

My whole life I have never heard anyone refer to themselves as Latin. I am with @janbb about the definition of Latin vs. Latino. I learned that Latino is definitely a masculine pronoun. That is why on another question about LatinX being a thing I said that I understand why some people want to use it; though, I have never actually met anyone who uses LatinX even though I am both Latina and queer. ¯\(ツ)/¯

I checked with my queer genZ nonbinary friend and they think the term is clunky and they eye roll when it’s heard. They prefer the term “Latine” using the “e” instead of the “o” or “a”.

I have an idea! How about LatinX+? Just to be more inclusive.

@Caravanfan Its not a matter of downplaying the male version of latinos but the fact remains when we speak of a large group of male and females then we say latinos. You don’t say el groupo de latins. You say el groupo de latinos. You also won’t hear el goupo de latinos and latinas. Latios becomes latin people essentially. There is no plural word for latins period. That is why it falls to latinos. Like the way, the phrase all men is meant to encompass women and people of all races. If someone were to ask me if my family are latino, I would say, si, somos latinos. NO one would ever think I am just talking about the men. Not a single soul who understands spanish.

@Pandora sigh. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m a Spanish speaker also—you don’t need to school me on the language. I agree with you that a group of Latinos is grammatically referring to males or males and females. I’m saying that there may be people who object to the use of the masculine noun so I respect what they want to be referred to.

As I’ve said, multiple times, I don’t like the term Latinx as I think it’s awkward. My queer Latine friend doesn’t like the term. But the fact remains that it IS a term and some people may prefer it.

@Pandora: “Like the way, the phrase all men is meant to encompass women and people of all races.”

Can you imagine someone using “all men” in 2022? We didn’t use that language in the 1990s and we certainly don’t now. It means men to anyone I have known in the past 30 years. “Men” as a term for “men and women” is no longer used, and shouldn’t be.

@Caravanfan So, the question remains, who is pushing the term LatinX? Your friend likes Latine, a lot of the Latin Americans here and who I know don’t use LatinX, or they think it’s not really accurate, or just don’t care to make it an issue.

The Q was asking where it started, but I’m more interested in who is pushing for it. Is it the group who is supposed to be helped by the term? Or, is it a lot of people who think it should be adopted, but they aren’t even part of that minority group?

If it’s being used in media, the media tends to repeat what they think they should say even if they have very little understanding. That’s from minor things like how to spell and say Kiev/Kyiv to a zillion other examples. They try their best to be respectful and politically correct, I’m not saying their intention is bad, but a lot of it is copycat.

@JLeslie I told you what I know already, But to repeat, my encounter with the term was when it being used by a group of Latinx writers to describe themselves at a convention I was at.

^^Oh right, I forgot that. Thanks.

There’s been some debate about where the term comes from. Etymology is always interesting, though it’s more important to me how the communities currently use the term.

Personally, I take note of how people self-identify. Going off of that, I default to LatinX when speaking to LGBTQ friends. But not with cis friends.

That said, even my friends who use LatinX think it’s a bit awkward.

X sounds so impersonal and not very human. Like saying “it” for a person.

^^ ‘X sounds so impersonal and not very human.’ I feel the same about xxx.