When Marjorie Taylor Green calls herself a Christian Nationalist does she know what that term means?

Far be it from me to have even a droplet of an idea of what is in Green’s mind. She’s a loonie – she and her friend Boebert.

The main issue is that ‘christian nationalist’ doesn’t have a universally understood meaning. Unlike a simpler term like ‘nationalist’, which is reasonably well defined across all people. But when you throw in ‘christian’ – it’s not definable because Christianity isn’t really definable either.

Christianity can be anything from Baptists to Lutherans Greek Orthodox to Russian Orthodox to 145 other flavors of christianity. See Wikipedia list

So there is no telling what ‘christian nationalist’ means in reality.

And then there are the usurpers, like Green and the wacko militias in Idaho and Montana who are about as Christian as my big toe.

Bottom line: She is spouting bullshit – meaningless bullshit that nakes her feel good.

A Swastika comes to mind but I bet she puts sparkles on it and calls it perfect ! ! !

Is she up for re-election this voting cycle?

Their party is so F-up that IF they put the word “Christian” in front of the word “murderer”, their base would support them because God is telling them to do so!!!

I’m not even clear what it means. It sounds more like something someone would say because they think it represents a union of their faith and their political beliefs. I doubt even many conservatives support forced conversion of Americans to Christianity, though I’m sure many believe that the United States is fundamentally “Christian” on some level (though I’m never clear on just what level; it certainly isn’t Christian the way Iran is Muslim, for example).

It’s a Christian analog of the Taliban. They want to reject the separation of church and state in the establishment clause and establish Christianity (likely their very narrow, fundamentalist and radical sub-variant of it) as the national religion. With that they want to encode their interpretation of Christian law in US federal and state laws.

I’m certain she has her own definition of the term, and I’m equally certain it includes violent ethnic cleansing.

@JLeslie She’s up for election every election cycle, as are all the members of the House.

It means she isn’t really a Christian.

@filmfann That’s what I say.

@Caravanfan I don’t know why I thought some states have 4 year terms for the house. I guess it’s always 2? Is that right?

“Greene said. “We’re proud of our faith and we love our country. And that will make American great again. When we lean into biblical principles, you know, is there anything wrong with loving God and loving others? No.”

She knows what it means to her.

Like many things today, people have different definitions for things. @cheebdragon shows what MTG means when she uses the term.

What I find interesting is that there were questions previously about what the definition of “woman” was. Something that simple and people on these pages couldn’t agree on what it was. The most popular answer was “whatever she wants it to be”. Yet you take some that involves MTG and the left is suddenly lock-step on definitions, and when the term has “Christian” in it, it is suddenly a bad thing.

Funny how everyone has to be “open minded” when it comes to something woke, but cut and dried when it is something on the right.

@seawulf575 Humanity’s understanding of what gender is has evolved over time based on research. Are you suggesting that the meaning of “Christian Nationalism” has changed over time due to research as well? Or are you just using special pleading to try to draw a false equivalence?

@cheebdragon @seawulf575 If she doesn’t know what it means to MOST people, maybe she should find out. It’s not similar to how people define the word “woman” because Christian Nationalism to most people is a white supremacist group. It’s like saying I define KKK as a group of nice people who love their country.

Green could just say she’s Christian, loves her faith, and loves her country, and leave it at that, but I stead she uses the language of the Neo-Nazi groups.

@gorillapaws what I am suggesting is that when it is a progressive topic, the special pleading comes out and you folks on the left lap it up. But you do NOT apply that same ideal when it comes to Christians or anything on the right. I’m suggesting that “Christian Nationalist” has far more possible interpretations than “woman”, yet you are trying to argue the exact opposite. I’m suggesting that even, as @cheebdragon showed, MTG explains her view, you guys on the left want to apply your OWN interpretation to the words, ignore what she has to say, and then convict her of being some sort of monster by your definitions…not hers. Gee…doesn’t that sound EXACTLY like special pleading?

@JLeslie We had this same discussion about “woman” and understanding what it meant to MOST people was not allowed as an argument. MOST people had to adapt to what the vast minority wanted it to be. White Supremacy, Neo-Nazi, KKK, etc are all labels applied by the left. See what I just wrote to @gorillapaws. And might I point out that ALL of those started firmly in the Democratic Party.

You folks on the left apply YOUR interpretation and hold others accountable for it. Yet you don’t want to accept that when it is something from the progressive views. I have a very definite definition for what a woman is. It is a biological female, complete with all the appropriate parts. It is NOT a male, it is NOT a child. It is an adult female. Yet that definition is ridiculed by the left. A woman is whatever a woman wants it to mean. So if a definition is left up to whatever the speaker wants it to be, why isn’t that right afforded to MTG?

Hate to partially agree with @seawulf575. “Nationalism” is not automatically white supremacy. That’s something the left has conflated with “white nationalism” which is different, it’s a form of ethinic nationalism. You can be a “cultural” or “civic” nationalist and not blindly support 100% of everything it does. Nor do you have to care about ethnicity. Civic nationalism is not always a bad thing. To many conservatives that is synonymous with patriotism. The Nazis were both ethnic and cultural/civic nationalists. That’s the dangerous combination. I’m not sure what MTG is thinking but if she is referring to religious nationalism proper, that’s a little scary. I think she is just spewing word salad though. I don’t think she knows the meanings.

After doing some more research on this, it seems clear that calling oneself a “Christian nationalist” has more to do with performative politics and pandering than it does any consistent ideology among those who claim it. What it does have in common is usually support for more public displays of religion: nativity scenes on government property, school prayer, etc. There is support for more infiltration of religion into the public sphere. But as I said, even calling the US a “Christian nation” (something that people who identify as Christian nationalists seem to do) is vaguely defined. Some mean it in terms of history, some simply mean the majority of Americans are Christian (true), others take it to mean laws should be based on the Bible.

I don’t take “nationalism” to be synonymous with “supremacy”, though certainly there is a fine line between thinking your nation is great and national identity is important and thinking your nation is superior to others.

@seawulf575 “But you do NOT apply that same ideal when it comes to Christians or anything on the right”

Science and research is the standard. The results are what they are. There is a large body of research supporting new models of understanding about gender. It’s a mainstream, scientific consensus. We used to think the Sun revolved around the Earth, and then we learned that wasn’t the case. It turns out that gender and sex are different things that usually align, but not always.

I’m not aware of any breakthroughs in understanding about Christian Nationalism, and if you want to die on the hill defending the “Jewish Space Laser” psyco, then by all means.

@Demosthenes “What it does have in common is usually support for more public displays of religion: nativity scenes on government property, school prayer, etc.”

It’s deeper than that. Here’s a recent quote from Boebert: “the church is supposed to direct the government. The government is not supposed to direct the church” (source—worth reading for more context).

@seawulf575 I’m pretty sure on the woman thread and the he/she/they thread I stated being so easily offended is getting ridiculous. So, im not one of those people you are talking about.

If you think being called a man when you’re a woman is on par with being a Nazi, you go right ahead.

I want Marjorie to say in more words what she means so I know what her real thoughts are. If she wants a theocracy I want to know. If she thinks Christian’s should be making all of the decisions in America I want to know. If she thinks people from other religion or no religion are untrustworthy and somehow lower on the rung, I want to know. If she doesn’t agree with any of that, I’d like to know.

Of course I agree with wulfie. Here, no one would bat an eye if I said I was a Christian Nationalist. It would mean a flag-flying patriot, nothing more.
If we meant WS we’d say that.

This is the issue I have with woke culture. You deny we have our own culture yet expect us to care about yours. Use the right pronouns, don’t fly that flag, don’t make those jokes. All the while looking for any excuse to call us racists or Christian Taliban with ZERO effort to understand our pov.
What’s so horrible about wanting fewer babies to die? Is it so horrible for a guy with a beard to be called a man? Ffs.

Honestly, @JLeslie, I feel you’ve made more effort here than most, yet you still asked this question as if we all think and speak alike, which just isn’t the case.

@KNOWITALL Agreed. When political actors define semantics the way they want and expect all others to follow suit, I get pretty annoyed. Even when I agree with them.

@Blackwater_Park But isn’t that what’s happening here? It’s taking one definition of “Christian nationalist” (i.e. “flag-flying patriot”) and saying that’s the definition and all others are wrong. From how politicians use it, I don’t think that’s the only meaning of the term. I think @seawulf575 is right in that it means different things to different people. So I agree saying it always means “white nationalist” is wrong, but I don’t think the innocent meaning @KNOWITALL is what it means in every context, especially when it comes to politicians using it.

@Demosthennes MTG is likely posturing for Republican votes, not Democrats, so it makes sense in that political context.

@JLeslie From Article II
The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.

@KNOWITALL Actually, I asked what Marjorie really means, I didn’t put words in her mouth, I didn’t call her a White Supremacist.

I think it’s a trick of the real WS to use language that Christians find appealing. They align with bad people and don’t realize what’s happening. Way smarter to call themselves Christian Nationalists than Neo-Nazis or KKK.

It happens on the left too. I see average liberal Democrats parroting what some far left progressive say, or just see “Democrat” or their favorite talking head on their favorite news channel, and just accept whatever they say no matter how extreme. It’s a problem.

The Neo-Nazi type are so dangerous that it is not equally weighted in my mind, but it’s all annoying and bad.

That no one would bat an eye where you live means to me a lot of people don’t understand the end goal of “Christian Nationalists.” I linked an article published in a Christian online website. Not a left wing liberal website.

@JLeslie It’d be interesting to ask a parallel question about the term “democratic socialist”. A term Democratic politicians often use that seems to mean different things and that the “other side” often says simply means “communist”.

Marjorie Taylor-Green compared electric planes to slave ships.

The stupid is strong in her. (I guess she forgot about batteries)

@Demosthenes in that particular case yeah. In general, language being redefined by a particular group is pretty dangerous if you asked me. In the case of MTG she appears to be using an incorrect, but regionally colloquial way to use that phrase.

@Demosthenes Yes, Democratic Socialist probably does mean different things to different people, and I think Bernie was an idiot to use the term, and the Democrats who were trying to explain and defend and use the term also were just as ignorant about how that term is heard. It is similar to MTG using Christian Nationalist.

In my opinion your analogy is way better than the “woman” analogy that was attempted in the thread.

@Blackwater_Park Unless she actually agree with what the movement wants to achieve. I have no idea in her case. She has made statements about Jews, which is classic WS talk. They think we have some sort of cabal controlling everyone and everything. They accuse Jews of the very thing they want to achieve. Typical projection, crying witch.

@JLeslie I read your post and the article. I get very frustrated when extremists and fringe groups cause this sort of confusion and miscommunication. We have enough already.
Since you are in a targeted group, I certainly understand your concern. All I can do is assure you that people like me do not hate people like you.
I feel like the BLM must have felt when they were protesting and children were killed and looting occurred. All the blame was on BLM and not the actual random perpetrators of those horrendous acts.

@JLeslie I don’t think a person who isn’t a Nazi would ever spread, Nazi ideas or be pro of Nazi ideas if they were not a Nazi. Even for political gain. I view MTG as a Nazi who is trying to whitewash Neo Natzi ideas to something more palatable for white Christian Republican voters and ease them into full Neo Natzi ideas. She is full-on a White supremacist.
There was a republican in Tennesse who said homeless people should model themselves after Hitler. https://www.cbsnews.com/video/tennessee-state-senator-tells-homeless-people-to-look-at-adolf-hitler-for-inspiration/ He tried to fix what he said at the end but the point is that this was what he admired. He admired Hitler.

@Pandora To be fair, his last sentence was more appropriate. What an odd example to use, regardless.

@KNOWITALL If your first thought to give people as someone to look up too is Hitler than this person may as well say he’s a Nazi.

@Pandora Okay, I disagree based on my experience but I understand why you’d feel that way. It was a poor example regardless.

@JLeslie “If she doesn’t know what it means to MOST people, maybe she should find out. It’s not similar to how people define the word “woman” because Christian Nationalism to most people is a white supremacist group.”
“nationalism
năsh′ə-nə-lĭz″əm, năsh′nə-
noun
1.Devotion, especially excessive or undiscriminating devotion, to the interests or culture of a particular nation-state.
2.The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
3.The belief that a particular cultural or ethnic group constitutes a distinct people deserving of political self-determination.
4.National spirit or aspirations; devotion to the nation; desire for national unity, independence, or prosperity.
5.Specifically, in Ireland, the political program of the party that agitates for more or less complete separation from Great Britain.
6.An idiom or a phrase peculiar to a mation; a national trait or peculiarity.
7.The conduct of all business by the public for the benefit of the public; the substitution of public for private control of all business.
8.The state of being national; national attachment; nationality.
An idiom, trait, or character peculiar to any nation.”

@Pandora “She is full-on a White supremacist” Uh, ok. I think she is just a garden variety right-wing conspiracy nut. Gotta watch out for those hordes of white supremacists hiding around the corner though. Can’t be too careful.

@JLeslie “Christian Nationalism to most people is a white supremacist group.” No it is not. I get why you are concerned with such things but neo-nazis and white supremacists are such an extreme minority that the concern is unfounded in most cases. It’s the left-wing’s boogey man. I don’t completely understand why the left believe there are huge numbers of them or that they hold any real power. Neither is true.

@Blackwater_Park I’m old school in some things. If it hisses like a snake, slithers like a snake and looks like a snake, I’m not going to ignore it and say, its probably an elephant pretending to be a snake.

Christian Nationalism is sufficiently scary on it’s own. The idea that the state should become a theocracy is fucking insane. Every time that’s been tried it ends up with witch burnings, slavery, massacres of native people, public stonings for women accused of adultry, female genital mutilation or beheadings for homosexuality etc. There’s a HARD WALL between church and state in the constitution for a very good reason. Folks that want to chip away at this are flirting with very dangerous outcomes, probably even more dangerous than white supremacy to be honest.

Anyone dumb enough to think “well a lot of those things are bad, but a CHRISTIAN theocracy would never do those things,” needs to pick up a history book that wasn’t edited by the Flordia Department of Altering History to Suit Our Conservative Ideology and read about the horrific shit done in the name of Christ.

@Blackwater_Park I don’t think Neo Nazis are some sort of huge majority. I think they are a scary group that is probably around 5–10 million in the US if I had to guess. An armed group who thinks the Christian’s should own and control America, who are groomed to use force, they want ti achieve the final solution (yes, finally kill off the Jews) and get control of the US. I highly recommend you watch CNN Special Report: Deep in the Pockets of Texas. The problem is average Republicans are helping to vote some of these extremists in. They might be clueless about how extreme these few are.

@KNOWITALL I in no way think most white Christian’s are racist or antisemitic. When Trump was first president and there were Q’s calling all Trumpers racist I was quick to say I don’t feel or think that. I’m not trying to over generalize, and I don’t think everyone who uses the term Christian Nationalist is racist or that they all think we should throw separation of church and state in the dumper.

@cheebdragon I don’t think you understand what it is like to be part of a minority group that was exterminated by Nationalists. Your definitions mean nothing to me. I said from the start that I understand that people using the term might mean no harm. Obviously, my definition means nothing to you. I posted an article from a Christian website. Here is a Wikipedia on Christian Nationalists. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism

Don’t get offended if you are a Christian. No one is trying to confuse Christians with Christian Nationalists. If you want to be angry, be angry at the White Supremacists for now using Christian right out there in their group name. They have always used Christianity to control their people. That has nothing to do with good Christians who have always promoted unity and understanding for all groups.

@JLeslie I don’t believe 2–3% of the population are white supremacists. That’s like 2 in 100. It’s going to be more like 1 in 1000 or less.

@Blackwater_Park Ok, let’s hope you’re right. Even in the group of WS I think there is a continuum. I don’t think they all will go to the extreme of storming the Capitol.

Here’s an article explaining the rise in antisemitism. And in Florida new groups have formed, like Texas, which may be why @JLeslie hears it more than some of us.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/antisemitic-incidents-hit-a-record-high-in-2021-whats-behind-the-rise-in-hate

There is just a rise in hate, ideological extremism, intolerance, angst and street gang type behavior across the board. Even some leftist groups are no longer condemning the use of violence and are becoming less fringy and more adjacent. I’m a little more concerned with them just looking at numbers and that most people don’t view them as dangerous yet. It’s essentially just gang dynamics playing out here with far-right and now some far-left groups. Whatever it is they say they are for, whatever flag they fly is secondary to that. White supremacists are just a small subgroup of the far right-wing fringe but they’re a little older, more organized and have garnered more attention even though they’re a relatively tiny portion of this problem. While they’re scarier to people, all of these other groups need to be on everyone’s radar as well. Any one of them could become the next stain on history. There is a social contagion aspect to this type of thing too, it just seems to spread fractally the more we allow it.