Is "drag queen story hour" an example of "grooming children"?

I don’t think it is an example of “grooming” children, but I don’t even get why they would do it at all. Why detract from the reading by being in full costume? Why not let the stories have the center stage?
And I am really not keen 9n the idea of teaching children that it is OK to caricature another demographic.

I’m not aware of it happening here in Honolulu, but I simply may not know.

I fully support the idea of Drag Queen Story Hour. I think it’s fabulous. Drag Queens are quite capable of changing their interactions making them appropriate for children. Any emotionally mature adult is capable of the same. Intelligent people know how to behave with children and extremely old people they might meet on the street or in a restaurant as opposed to meeting peers and friends in a bar.

The hysteria surrounding it is homophobia pure and simple. A drag queen in full costume is no more a threat to a child than any other costumed individual. I think it adds magic to the book reading experience. I thinks it’s fun. If you can imagine someone in a Disney princess costume doing a story hour, then you can imagine a drag queen doing the same.

Is it grooming? No. Period. The vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual. In decades past, it was a common slur against gays that they wanted to have intimacy with children. It’s homophobia pure and simple.

If drag queens can clean up their acts for national TV for RuPaul’s Drag Race, then they are capable of cleaning up their acts for children.

Are Captain Kangaroo and Mr Green Jeans grooming . . .?

It’s in the eye (and mind, I say) of the beholder.
“and they are very much sexual and adult-oriented”
That’s one perception.
Children possibly see this same as they see carnival.
Unless I must miss something, and the people in drag are explicitly telling about what they do in their bedrooms.
Or dry fuck.

I believe it is. It is an effort to normalize being Drag to as young a group as possible. I would not be in favor of Smoker Story Hour of Porn Star Story Hour or anything else like that. As @canidmajor said, why can’t the story be the focus? Anything other description makes itself a focus for the kids.

@seawulf575 Your comparison of drag queens to smokers and porn stars is a fallacy. You are wrong as usual.

Yes.

It looks a bit weird and cringey to me, but that’s just my taste.

From what I’ve seen of how they’re conducted, it is not any sort of grooming and does not conceivably fit any definition of grooming.

“It is an effort to normalize being Drag to as young a group as possible.”

Given that there’s nothing wrong with “being Drag”, then there’s nothing to “normalize”.

I think the language being used is intentionally propaganda. People in drag specifically don’t “lure” and “groom” children.

Last week, a Republican politician was caught actually diddling himself in his car outside a school….

We watched the Rocky Horror Picture show in my school. When you’re that young, you’re innocent and only see costumes and dancing.

If simply being drag around a kid is grooming, then parents being racist or homophobic around their kids is also grooming.

I can guarantee kids have been groomed to be homophobic and racist.

This is just more Christian right trying to keep people dumb and ignorant. Like they think kids are going to be taken to sketchy nightclubs afterwards.

I would say the line should be what’s appropriate dress on any woman reading stories to a group of kids: cis, trans, drag, or any other kind of woman I may have missed. The drag part is irrelevant. It’s not grooming—that word has a specific meaning.

Grooming is befriending children and putting them at east to prepare them for being molested.

I don’t see drag queen story hour as anything like that at all.

I think kids will get a kick out of it. It doesn’t happen, or didn’t happen, in my daughter’s elementary school. I wouldn’t object to it. Some parents might, but I think the kids would think a costumed character reading to them would be fun and different.

@Hawaii_Jake My examples of smokers and porn stars were not a comparison to drag queens, they were examples of other things I wouldn’t want to push on kids. So no, I’m not wrong. Or are you saying you are FOR pushing all these things on kids?

As much as sitting on Santa’s lap at the mall.
Much less than being forced to go to church.

@ragingloli Great way to paint this whole non issue with two perfect strokes!

@Demosthenes: “Is “drag queen story hour” an example of “grooming children”?”

@seawulf575: “I believe it is.”

Such a statement demands an explanation, but you haven’t elaborated. Start with your understanding of the term “grooming”.

I in no way think it is grooming – what in Heaven’s name would it even be grooming for, but I wonder what the purpose of it is? Presumably, anyone can approach a library and volunteer to read stories at storytime.

NO, I don’t see it as grooming in its original meaning of the word as grooming is currently just a buzz word the right wing uses to rile its base!!! Yet, IF I ask if 40 y/o Matt Gaetz is grooming the 17 y/o child that he was paying to go across state lines with him for the purpose of ILLEGAL sex is grooming, I’m told that the answer is an emphatic NO!!!

We haven’t had any of these story hours here in North Georgia; however, they did have some in SC not far from where I live. They were held at a local public library…NOT in the schools. What happens in SC usually come across our border within a few weeks, so I went to one just to see how it played out. I didn’t want to hear it from a biased source & wanted to SEE IT FOR MYSELF!!!

There was NO sexually perverted drag show corrupting our kids. The Drag Queens were dressed more modest than most of the mothers bringing their children to the event. They sat like ladies at the front of the kids reading their book in a respectful manner. Yes, there were a few Queens there that looked ridiculous & clownish…there were also a few who looked better than many of the natural women there. The kids were more confused as to why the people outside were protesting than they were why some man dressed as a woman was reading to them.

When I was in elementary school, the PTA used to throw “womanless weddings” where our daddies dressed up like our mommies & put on a show. It was funny & entertaining, I felt it took a LOT of bravery for these guys to show up knowing the hostile climate they would be walking into!!!

I see banning books from the schools as being MORE of a grooming process than Drag Queens reading books to our kids!!! It won’t be that long before the right will decide that our grand daughters NO longer need to be in school at all because they need to be home learning how to cook & clean & take care of the babies. That’s NOT what I want for any little girl that I know!!!

Meanwhile, this is what the WWE thinks is appropriate for children in the audience:
[NSFW] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL0fSWghFcU

Grooming no.

Have any of you watched these online? It really is quite funny and interesting. And there’s nothing sexual about it.

Some children have expressed delight, confusion, blatant rejection-the entire spectrum.

My family exposed me very young, and I’ve always been grateful for that. It had zero bearing on my Christianity or my own life choices but it did eliminate prejudices and misinformation. In the end, knowledge is power, in my opinion.

@KNOWITALL I’m just curious. What was it that your family exposed you to? Drag queens?

As for the whole concept, I’ve done some more reading about it and I think it’s a good idea and kind of fun.

Grooming, no. Agenda pushy, likely. Odd and kinda WTF, Why? Absolutely. I can’t see any real harm in this though.

As an add-on to my first post, a little more explanation based on experience.

I have organized, arranged, and co-ordinated story times in libraries and elementary schools, and I have learned a few things.

1. The top age of children at these things tends to be 7 years old, maximum, before they are bored and jaded. Even 7 is pushing it.

2. Young children will be waaaay more interested in the costumes worn by the presenters, than the actual stories. Case in point: when the firefighters arrived in full regalia, the kids were completely overtaken by that, did not want to listen to the story. The next time the firefighters came, they wore khaki pants and blue T-shirts with the fire station logo and number on. They had pictures of themselves in full regalia. The kids listened to and enjoyed the story.

3. Kids will likely ask certain kinds of questions of drag queens in full costume and make-up: “Are you a boy or a girl?” “Are you Maleficant/Ursula/Cruella DeVil/(other Disney cartoon villainess)?” (because of the exaggerated make-up) “My Uncle Charlie says you are weird/bad/a fag, why?” Unless the story, for these young children, being read relates to drag, (and are we there yet?) are the presenters prepared to discuss gender fluidity, the sexuality spectrum, potential trans issues?

And maybe none of this, kids are nothing if not unpredictable.

@janbb It was the 70’s so everything from music, sex, nudity, Rainbow gatherings-just everyone living their best life.

Specifically lots of gay men and women, closeted, open or flamboyant. In my 20’s we often went to drag shows and loved them, all my peer group went. It’s hard for me to imagine LGBTQ’s as groomers or anything negative. A pedo is a pedo, not the same at all.

@canidmajor Thank you for the further clarification. Your experience is valuable. However, I have watched videos of drag queen story hour. The interest in the costume fades, and the children are easily redirected to the books and give their rapt attention as only small children can.

I know I go gaga over firemen in uniform or out of uniform.

I just went to YouTube and put in “Drag queen story hour” into the search bar, and a lot of news clips came up including some about protests. Protesters and Proud Boys acting up outside the venues and storming inside, getting trespass orders from the police, etc. To me, if a mom or dad wants to take their kid to a story hour, that’s between the parent and the venue, and the type of story hour doesn’t and should not concern the protesters at all.

No. Stop thinking like a facist.

There may be a time and a place for drag queens but it isn’t children’s story times. Children’s story times are for children and all that is required is a good story well told. Introducing drag queens can only distract from the story and confuse the children. I’m not against children experiencing drag queens I just think this would be better done in the context of children’s theatre rather than storytelling.

The children that I observed were MORE confused by the bad behavior of the adults outside than they were of the Drag Queens reading them the story. They didn’t notice anything strange about the Queens; however, they did have a LOT of questions about WHY the adults were being bad??? At that point in time, the Proud Boys hadn’t inserted themselves into anyone else business!!! It was mostly local dads raising hell because they didn’t want their kid being exposed to the perverts. Well, they weren’t invited to bring their kids & NOBODY was trying to force them to do so!!!

As an interesting side note…about a week later, a wife of one of the protesters caught her husband at a local motel with one of the Drag Queens who had been reading at the event. He was putting on a performance to draw the light away from himself…didn’t work out very well!!! Anyway, most pedos are hetero white males & NOBODY looks at them strange when they read to the kids at the library!!!

Re. the term “grooming”. I agree that using it here is not accurate and it’s also often hypocritical: the same people who overuse “groomer” in reference to LGBT complain that terms like “racist” are losing their meaning because leftists overuse them. That is exactly what is being done with “groomer”; it’s being used so often that its meaning is being diluted, which seems counter-productive to rooting out pedophilia from society.

However, when I hear “grooming” in the context of schools and LGBT is that there is concern that non-gender conforming kids are being told that they are trans and are being encouraged to “socially transition”. This is perhaps only marginally related to the question. But I think there is a bigger picture here. I would agree that it’s wrong for school teachers to be labeling a child’s sexual orientation or gender identity. But even then a connection to pedophilia is not really being proven.

^When you hear “grooming” I hear “education.”

Education is not a bad thing.

@flutherother “There may be a time and a place for [black people/Jews/Homosexuals/people with disabilities] but it isn’t children’s story times. Children’s story times are for children and all that is required is a good story well told. Introducing [black people/Jews/Homosexuals/people with disabilities] can only distract from the story and confuse the children. I’m not against children experiencing [black people/Jews/Homosexuals/people with disabilities] I just think this would be better done in the context of children’s theatre rather than storytelling.”

See how fucked up that sounds? Why is it different with drag queens?

If you think men in drag reading to children is sexualizing them, it means you think men in drag are sexy.

Thank you. Don’t forget to tip your waitress.

It’s all cute and funny when daddy dresses as a lady for Halloween.

I’m sure every father complaining about Drag Queen story hour has dressed as a woman at some point in their life.

Still waiting for @seawulf575‘s explanation for his “I believe it is [grooming].”

@hat I’m not speaking for wulfie but many conservatives feel the same way.
Even just exposing them to other lifestyle choices is counterproductive to ‘keeping them innocent as long as possible.’

It may not be right but one thing you can always count on is that most conservatives are protective with their children, almost obsessively.

I think the bathroom issues were not as opposed to trans people, as they were protective of their children. Not malicious but fear and concern.
Change comes slower in the middle and southern traditional areas.

@KNOWITALL I agree with you. A family member from another culture got mad at me when I asked her 5 year old daughter if her friend with an androgynous name was a boy, a girl or an in-between.

@hat I think what @KNOWITALL is trying to say is that conservatives don’t appreciate politics in general being pushed on their children at such a young age. Particularly if they don’t agree but in general they don’t like it regardless. They see it as undermining what they’re trying to teach at home and often as age inappropriate. This is true at any position of the political spectrum. It does not have to be liberals poisoning a child’s mind. My parents told me as an adult that they had me in an affordable daycare and I came home one day telling my dad he was going to hell because he smoked cigarettes. I was 5. That’s indoctrination and of course they pulled me out ASAP later to find out there were religious cult members working there. People with an agenda often try to plant seeds in the very young. It’s wrong regardless if the agenda is a positive one or not.

@KNOWITALL and @Blackwater_Park – @seawulf575 stated that he thought it was grooming. Unless I’m confused, isn’t that term used to describe doing something along the lines of actions pedophiles use to make a connection with minors in order to get them to open for sex (or something)?

@hat I see it used both ways. I think Indoctrination is more descriptive and correct but “grooming” is often used this way too. Not to be confused with sexual grooming

^ We’ll have to assume that’s what @seawulf575 meant. It’s odd, however, to start using a word like “grooming” when a year ago the term would have been “indoctrination”. It’s more a sign of what type of propaganda @seawulf575 consumes, I guess.

I think it’s one of those cases where the word “grooming” sounds more sinister now and it used more often by the propaganda machine to make people afraid for their children. Left wingers are going to assume right wingers use it in the sexual sense but they’re likely not. Language is a powerfully divisive tool. We’ll see what @seawulf575 thinks it means.

@hat I think the OP explained it rather well. Even in some of the actual videos, the drag queens outfits showed a lot more skin than most conservative parents would be comfortable with around young children.

@Blackwater_Park: “I think it’s one of those cases where the word “grooming” sounds more sinister now and it used more often by the propaganda machine to make people afraid for their children”

I have to admit that I had never looked it up until this question. But I’m struggling to find anything online that describes “grooming children” as a synonym for non-sexual indoctrination. Do you have any sources? It appears (again, I could be wrong), that “grooming children” has a very specific meaning, and it has everything to do with sex.

@KNOWITALL: “Even in some of the actual videos, the drag queens outfits showed a lot more skin than most conservative parents would be comfortable with around young children.”

Yeah, I get that there is a cultural divide and what we all feel is appropriate to expose our children to (drag queens, military personnel, country music, etc). I’m honestly just trying to understand whether @seawulf575 thought that it was “grooming children” in the sense that I am seeing that term referred to online.

@hat Not particularly, conservative media, talk radio, it’s there. If you’re tying to find a formal description of it being used that way you probably won’t find it. They do use that connotation to make regular indoctrination sound worse.

‘Child grooming is befriending and establishing an emotional connection with a minor…to lower the child’s inhibitions…’

So just taking out the sexual component completely, many parents would STILL not be okay with this edited definition.

Yes my family exposed me to non-traditional people but they were always with me to supervise and/or discuss.

Many conservatives believe that the parents have the responsibility to raise their children according to the parents beliefs and values. Thus CRT, drag queen story time and other controversial situations are seen as challenging that authority and responsibility.

What exactly is the intent with drag queen story time? That’s the important question.

@hat I think it gets called “grooming” because drag queens are seen as inherently sexual and this is exposing children to something sexual at an inappropriate age. That is where the sense of “grooming” comes from. Of course, there are problems with this term being applied too loosely: is a picture book about a kid with two dads “grooming”? Many parents would say so because it is instilling the idea that homosexuality is acceptable and homosexual relationships are seen as exclusively and excessively sexual by those who don’t accept it.

@Demosthenes It may in some or many cases but, as someone who has had to listen to conservative talk radio daily at work for years, the term “grooming” is and was quite often used non-sexually. I.E. “Liberal teachers grooming the next generation of kids to grow up to be leftists”

@Blackwater_Park Even in the nonsexual context, the associative implication is intentional.

But @Demosthenes – Before the term “grooming children” became a thing, we could all talk (and disagree) about the subject. I think you’re being a little too generous here (as is @Blackwater_Park). I have now searched the term way more than I had wanted, and I can’t find any use of the term that doesn’t involve pedophilia. This isn’t just a matter of being conservative and trying to shield children from sexually-explicit themes or images. The use of “grooming children” in this scenario appears to be implying that the intention of drag queens is to prep children for sex.

@Blackwater_Park stated that the term is used in conservative media. And he’s probably right that “they do use that connotation to make regular indoctrination sound worse”. But that means that the most generous interpretation here is that conservative media is implying that drag queens are trying to rape children in order to make a point. Or something.

Well, yes, there is an agenda that is attempting to associate everything LGBT with pedophilia, that LGBT people are inherently pedophilic, and that pedophiles are legitimate members of the LGBT community. They may not always be explicitly referencing this when using the term “groomer”, but the association is there.

@Demosthenes – Then shouldn’t we agree on what “grooming children” means before we all start answering different questions?

Our local library has drag queen story time.

We haven’t been. But I’m glad they have it. I’m all for normalizing the spectrum of gender expression.

I don’t see it as inherently sexual. We don’t assume heterosexuals as constantly pushing their heterosexuality, do we?

@hat It may also be that right-wing pundits have used “grooming” so much, so willy-nilly, that it actually started to displace “indoctrination” in their regular conversations. I honestly heard it so much that unless a sexual connotation is implied, grooming and indoctrination were used interchangeably.

@Blackwater_Park: “It may also be that right-wing pundits have used “grooming” so much, so willy-nilly, that it actually started to displace “indoctrination” in their regular conversations. I honestly heard it so much that unless a sexual connotation is implied, grooming and indoctrination were used interchangeably.”

Exactly.

@raum Exactly. Normalizing gender expression is very different than grooming (by definition.)
The fact is that at this point, even educating minors on gender expression is opening a door many would prefer to stay closed.

That is not an option many on the ultra right want given to minors.

This of course isn’t just limited to educators; parents of trans children are accused of child abuse and grooming as well.

I do think there are some legitimate concerns here (not specifically related to drag queens): gender non-conformity in children doesn’t necessarily mean they are trans, and I think some children are being encouraged to “transition” socially, when that may not be what is going on. I went through a gender non-conforming phase as a child: wearing my sister’s clothes, giving myself a girl’s name, claiming pink was my favorite color, asking for girl’s toys for my birthday. There are studies that show that boys who do this are more likely to grow up to be homosexual or bisexual men. That was true in my case. But it was also a phase and I feel like nowadays it would taken as evidence of being trans. There’s a fine line here and I do think some are crossing it.

This question is all over the place.

@hat That’s what happens when you put serious questions in Social. You get a mess.

Well, it’s just my personal preference, but I put my questions in social because I’m not bothered by the question going in other directions. I get that others don’t like that and it may discourage them from contributing. Maybe I will try General for questions like this in the future.

I think Social is the appropriate place for these questions. But I think the question is really a bunch of different questions that got messy when it turned out that the title contained a term that is in dispute. And you have also drifted away from that term and it’s been sliding into loose, cluttered thoughts about transitioning, etc.

I think the question, “Is “drag queen story hour” an example of “grooming children”?” a legit question. The answer is clearly no, and anyone claiming otherwise would have a lot of work (insane ramblings merely confirming their confusion and bigotry). Or, you could have left the “grooming children” out of it and asked, “Is “drag queen story hour” appropriate for children?”, and you would likely have a heated discussion between modern humans and people living in fundamentalist pockets in the US.

But now I’m confused because we had @seawulf575 jump in to announce that it is “grooming children”, but didn’t elaborate. Then others pointed out that billion dollar corporations have been successful at conflating pedophilia and drag queens so that the use of the term “grooming” can be used to make non-sexual claims but still carry the insinuation of pedophilia.

And now we’re making some tenuous connections between children transitioning and people looking fabulous while reading books. If I were to try to answer the question, I wouldn’t know where to start.

@hat Fair enough. The reason I brought up transitioning is because when I was reading about this issue, the people who have a problem with drag queen story hour make a connection between all these things: they see teachers/parents encouraging children to transition when it is not appropriate (in their regard) and it’s this forcing of gender identity and sexual orientation onto children that they see as all part of an umbrella of “grooming”, an inappropriate mixture of childhood and sexuality.

I agree that the terminology “grooming” in this context is inaccurate. But I see it so often that I wanted to know why it is said.

As an aside, or an attempt to answer – I have absolutely no problem with it. My kids would’ve loved it. And we always had lots of dress-up stuff. My boys frequently dressed up in all kinds of things – including “women’s” clothing (dresses, heels, etc). Young kids do all kinds of dressing up and playing roles. It’s healthy and really fun.

So, the thought of someone dressing up and reading to kids doesn’t seem inappropriate or a distraction at all. Despite what conservatives believe, we all dress up and play roles. Objecting to particular dress-up because is really saying that you want to enforce a particular type of dress-up. It all looks ridiculous to me, and if we can’t laugh and have fun with it or allow children to see people loosen up a bit, then we should just admit that we are engaged in an indoctrination – or “grooming”? ;) – of our children and everyone else’s children in ways that we should all be embarrassed about. It’s honestly humiliating that we have grown adults in this country that are terrified that seeing someone dress up is going to break the fragile system of indoctrination they have attempted to implement on children.

@hat My neighbor boy, 8 years old, wanted me to put fake eyelashes on him. Just for fun. His dad went ballistic. A speech on you’re a boy and boy’s don’t do that. I think it scared his macho dad into overreacting.

In a way, I see your rage on certain issues regarding your daughter, and his rage regarding his son, as flip sides of the same coin.

You are both doing your best to protect your chidren from threat/the world/society the best that you know how. Whether it’s right or wong, that is your right as a parent and I respect that right.

@KNOWITALL: “In a way, I see your rage on certain issues regarding your daughter, and his rage regarding his son, as flip sides of the same coin.”

I agree with this.

@KNOWITALL: “Whether it’s right or wrong, that is your right as a parent and I respect that right.”

I’m not a moral relativist. I think there is right and wrong. And there is a cultural divide in the US. Some parts of the country have far more in common with Saudi Arabia, Iran, and North Korea than others. Someone fighting to force their son to wear prescribed “male” clothing (or to force their daughters to give over control of their bodies to government entities) is something that I can’t agree with. But you’re right – they are two sides of the same coin. One side is quite terrifying as we can see in other countries more clearly than we can our own, apparently.

I’m not going to force conservatives to allow their kids to have fun. But I will force conservatives out of my daughter’s uterus.

I don’t think there is any part of this country that is anything like North Korea.

No, blatantly not.
I’m fine with it & embrace the principle with open arms.
Kids will be happy too, they’re gloriously innocent & honest that way y’know.

Conservatives have always conflated and accused gay people of trying to “turn children gay” so they can fuck them later.
The use of the word “grooming” is absolutely intentional, and designed to stoke that same fear, and to label all LGBTQ people as pedophile sex predators. Do not let them tell you that they are just “against indoctrination”. They are lying.

@ragingloli I tend to agree. It’s definately intentional. I’ll never forget the pastor saying it’s Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Never went back.

You didn’t explain how it’s grooming children for sex. Trying to normalize drag, yes, it is trying to do that. That doesn’t make it “grooming” though.

Some people think anything that allows LGBTQ to be seen in public and act it is normal . . . it is “GROOMING” ! !

@Demosthenes Where did I ever say anything about grooming children for sex? When did YOU ever say anything about grooming children for sex? Grooming, to me, can take on many aspects that have nothing to do with sex. Grooming is manipulation, plain and simply. Trying to manipulate people into seeing or thinking of things a certain way.

@seawulf575 Grooming has a specific meaning in the culture of today for both the left and the right. If you don’t mean to attach sexuality to it; find a clearer word for what you mean. Conservatives can’t throw out the term “grooming” at allies and then deny that’s what was meant. That is manipulation.

@janbb
Do not be fooled, this is pure obfuscation. He only claims to not mean it, to shield himself from criticism. But let there be no doubt. He means it.

@janbb Yep. Gaslighting, pure and simple. “Grooming” has a sexual, pedophilic connotation to it. That is what is intentionally implied by referring to something like this as “grooming”.

Ahh…So the definition I found must be wrong. Because it hits a lot of the points I was making. Let me point you to a couple points from this since I know most of you won’t bother to look at the link.

“When a sexual or other kind of predator sets the stage for abusing another, such as a child or other person”

“Alienation: Settings the stage for the intended victim to become alienated from their primary caregivers/circles or family and community.”

“Trust: May give toys and/or other gifts and favors to the intended victim to gain trust.”

I don’t know, but most of that has nothing to do with sexual or pedophilic things.

But let me look further. I found another site that had this definition:

“The Definition of Grooming
Grooming is defined as the action of developing a relationship with a young person and gaining their trust to manipulate them. A groomer can be anyone – a man or a woman of any age. Contrary to what most people think, it’s not always a stranger either. It might be someone known to the rest of the family who abuses their position and wants to exploit the child, for example, their doctor or a teacher. A child might be also groomed online which is a more likely scenario as the groomer can easily hide their true identity behind fake photos.”

Again, not solidly sexual or pedophilic. So forgive me if I’m not as close-minded as the rest of you and actually take the time to look things up.

When I said “grooming children” in this question, it was those very definitions I was thinking of. These kinds of things are what pedophiles do to gain the trust of the children they intend to abuse.

@Demosthenes yes, but pedophiles aren’t the only ones that groom children. Grooming is manipulation. Look at the definition from the second citation…that captures it pretty well. Developing a relationship with a young person and gaining their trust to manipulate them. Having a “Drag Queen Story Hour” is setting up a situation to create a relationship with a young person in order to gain their trust and manipulate them. My answer was that they are manipulating them into seeing Drag as the normal…not something that stated in a risque cabaret. I compared it to Smoker Story Hour or Porn Star Story Hour as a way of showing other things we might not consider right for children being put into an aspect where the children will start accepting it.

OH Give it a break @seawulf575 !

@seawulf575 I don’t agree. The implications in that definition clearly point to a pedophile/sexual predator. For example, take this line: “contrary to what most people think, it’s not always a stranger”. This is referencing the fact that many people think most sexual predators are strangers, even though many children are abused by people they know.

This does not meet the definition of grooming, which has a specifically sexual connotation.

@Demosthenes And you don’t think that family members try to manipulate kids? Let me introduce you to my ex-wife. She would say and do anything to groom the kids into wanting to be with her instead of me. Not for anything sexual, but certainly to manipulate them, to make them believe and think a way she wanted them to.

@seawulf575 If you were to go into court and say “My wife was grooming the kids” without any additional context, do you think anyone would believe you were expressing anything other than preparing them for sexual abuse?

@gorillapaws If I were to go to court and state my wife was grooming the kids, I’m pretty sure the court would ask me to define “grooming”. In a court they deal with facts, not assumptions.

@Demosthenes Another interesting thing I see (as I often do) is that I am the only one that has actually done the homework to come up with definitions to support my view. And I am being blasted because those of you that haven’t have made assumptions of the meaning…taken your own personal view and considered it fact. You are dead set on saying grooming is strictly sexual in nature….prove it. Find something other than a like-minded jelly that states grooming is strictly sexual in nature.

You’ve done homework, i.e. looking up a definition of a word.
The others know that definition, but also live their lives in the real world, and keep up with what’s going on in the last three decades, where it’s concerned with the, unfortunate, reality of child abuse, and its lingo.

My cousin grooms her horse every day.

@seawulf575 You are derailing the thread by arguing the point. Since the OP has stated repeatedly their definition of the term, why not answer the question as posed? Do you think that drag queen story hours are held for the purpose of leading children into sexual activity with adults?

@seawulf575 Your definitions prove what I’m saying. You haven’t proven me wrong at all. All your definitions do is confirm that it is strictly sexual.

In either case, I asked if drag queen story hour was grooming children for sex or somehow pedophilic in nature. Your answer is no, it isn’t. Thanks for contributing.

Meanwhile parents are overjoyed when their female toddler gets along with their neighbor’s male toddler and they all joke and laugh about what a cute couple they’ll make.

Is this not a form of grooming?

That, yes!

And how about those pageant competitions, where they dress toddlers in skimpy clothing, and bathing suits.
Nothing wrong with that too, I guess?

@Jonsblond @rebbel I’d argue that both of those things are closer to “grooming” than seeing a drag queen.

One source I found said that “assigning a sexual orientation to a young child” is grooming, so @Jonsblond‘s example definitely qualifies.

I agree totally.

Grooming is manipulation.

So, manipulating a child by removing any book that doesn’t agree with your thought process thereby removing any chance of a full thought process by said child is the same thing as grooming???

@LadyMarissa No, that would be censorship.