Social Question

Demosthenes's avatar

Are you surprised there was another mass shooting an LGBT nightclub?

Asked by Demosthenes (15298points) November 20th, 2022

I’m not.

Satisfying to hear that a number of patrons helped subdue the gunman and only 5 were killed, far less than the Pulse shooting.

Nothing has been released about the shooter’s motive, though he was apparently known to police for other violent incidents.

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43 Answers

elbanditoroso's avatar

Not only not surprised, but in particular:

1) in Colorado Springs, which is the home of several far right religions cultish sects

2) done by a young (22-year old) white youth who has been in trouble with the law.

3) known to law enforcement from previous crimes but nevertheless still allowed to own guns

4) in a state that just reelected the conservative kook Lauren Boebert

5) in a state with a history of mass shootings (Columbine, Aurora)

This was no surprise. Except that I’m shocked it took so long to happen.

ragingloli's avatar

Not at all.
Conservatives have created this blood libelesque narrative, that LGBTQ people are all child molesters. Attacks like these are the natural, and intended, result.
I guarantee you they are cheering it on, as well.

Blackberry's avatar

I went to CO Springs to go hiking, and it’s not any different than the small racist town I grew up in, just slightly larger and more sunny.

Caravanfan's avatar

Lauren Boebert sent her thoughts and prayers so it’s all okay now.

kritiper's avatar

No. “To every thing there is a season.”

RayaHope's avatar

Surprised..no. Disgusted, Outraged, Repulsed, Sickened, Angered, Infuriated, and Nauseated…yes, Yes, YES!!!

Blackwater_Park's avatar

That kind of hate always surprises me.

Jeruba's avatar

Yes. It surprises me every time. It’s always unexpected. It’s always too evil to anticipate.

HP's avatar

No shocks anymore. Any alarm that it is an LGBT nightclub this time misses the point. In our great democracy, everyone has a target on their back. Along as there is an outsized glut of surplus weaponry freely available, there will be no shortage of maladjusted shooters eager to surpass the records. The weapons surplus no longer alarms anyone. Surprisingly, it apparently just doesn’t register that the sport is particularly attractive to geeky young white boys as their ticket to self validation.

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smudges's avatar

I agree with @Blackwater_Park. I just don’t get hatred that involves whole groups of people. Why do people think it’s their business?! Why not just live your own life as best as you can? rhetorical question The only group of people that I hate are those who hate groups of people! 8\

actually, I don’t even hate them. I do, however, strongly dislike some individuals

filmfann's avatar

Nope. Hate is being fomented.

gorillapaws's avatar

@elbanditoroso To be fair #5 is kind of bullshit at this point. In 2020, there were nearly 2 mass shootings a day, so pretty much all states have a “history of mass shootings.”

janbb's avatar

@gorillapaws FWIW, I don’t recall there being one in my state.

Brian1946's avatar

The most I can recall for CA, is one with 3 victims in the last 3 years.

LuckyGuy's avatar

Frankly, I am surprised the shooter is alive.

gorillapaws's avatar

@janbb If we’re talking about New Jersey, you’ve got the Art All Night shooting in 2018 and the Jersey City shooting in 2019. I’m surprised there aren’t more though given the population and proximity to New York.

janbb's avatar

@gorillapaws You’re right. We do have fairly strict gun laws though. I’ve never seen anyone carrying a gun.

Demosthenes's avatar

@LuckyGuy Mass shooters seem to have a way of staying alive if they don’t take their own life. A bit appalling when you think of the people who do end up getting shot by police for far less.

Jeruba's avatar

@janbb, well, and you’ve got the Sopranos.

JLeslie's avatar

Yes and no. I’m surprised people are willing to give up their own life and freedom to harm others. I guess they are suicidal and miserable themselves.

That the LGBT community is targeted is not surprising to me. I’m not surprised when it happens to gay people, Black people, Muslim People, or Jewish people, it’s “just” another attack. I guess now it might start happening more to Latin America people, I’m not sure how often they were targeted in the past?

I think of these attacks like ISIS. These people get brainwashed and influenced by White Supremacists groups and then either carry out orders or act on their thinking they are helping a cause.

It’s disgusting. I hope the Christians are right and these murderers and hate influencers rot in hell.

JLoon's avatar

No.

I’m not surprised.

And unfortunately it’s easy to imagine it will happen again.

KNOWITALL's avatar

Not surprised but dismayed. Reading about his past, he should definately have been in treatment or allowed no weapons.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

It has taken me 36 hours to answer this question.

I am the target of hate spewed by Republican politicians, right-wing media, and my own parents. Their lies cause my death symbolically and the literal deaths of my LGBTQ siblings. F*ck them! F*ck the people who vote for and listen to them. You are also responsible for murder.

There are people who want me literally dead. If you do not actively oppose them, you are participating in attempted murder.

smudges's avatar

^^ Reminds me of this:

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

jca2's avatar

NY Times Editorial: Title: “The Massacre at Club Q was only a matter of time.” What’s discussed in the editorial is a lot of what we’ve discussed recently here on Fluther.
______________________________

The massacre this past weekend at Club Q, an L.G.B.T.Q. club in Colorado Springs, was at once shocking and entirely predictable, like terrorist attacks on synagogues and abortion clinics.

The police are still investigating the motive behind the shooting, in which five people were killed and at least 18 others wounded. But we know that the suspect is facing hate crime charges, and that the attack took place in a climate of escalating anti-gay and anti-trans violence and threats of violence.

We also know that, in recent years, the right has become increasingly fixated on all-ages drag shows, part of a growing moral panic about children being “groomed” into gender nonconformity. Club Q hosted a drag show on Saturday night and had an all-ages drag brunch scheduled for Sunday. Perhaps we’ll learn something in the coming days that will put these murders, which took place on the eve of Transgender Day of Remembrance, into a new light, but right now, it seems hard to separate them from a nationwide campaign of anti-L.G.B.T.Q. incitement.

During the early years of Donald Trump’s administration, conservatives downplayed the contempt for homosexuality and gender nonconformity that had once been central to their movement, foregrounding racial resentment instead. Opposition to gay marriage had become a political loser, and it was hard to pose as champions of wholesome family values while enthusiastically supporting a thrice-married libertine who’d made a cameo in soft-core porn. But in recent years, as growing numbers of kids started identifying as trans, the puritanical tendency on the right has come roaring back, part of an increasingly apocalyptic worldview that sees the erosion of traditional gender roles as a harbinger of national collapse

Chris Rufo, the entrepreneurial activist who made critical race theory into a major political issue, shifted his focus to “gender ideology” in public schools. Lawmakers began to target pro-L.G.B.T.Q. teachers, and to accuse anyone who opposed them of being “groomers.” When Florida was debating legislation restricting classroom discussion of sexual orientation and gender identity, Gov. Ron DeSantis’s press secretary wrote on Twitter, “If you’re against the Anti-Grooming Bill, you are probably a groomer or at least you don’t denounce the grooming of 4–8 year old children.”

The language of “grooming” recapitulated old homophobic tropes about gay people recruiting children, while also playing into the newer delusions of QAnon, which holds that elite liberals are part of a sprawling satanic child abuse ring. Conservatives hoped to turn this conspiracy theory into political power; according to the Human Rights Campaign, Republicans and Republican-aligned groups spent at least $50 million on anti-L.G.B.T.Q. ads in the midterms.

Drag queens have been a particular obsession of those who believe that children are being lured into changing their gender or sexual orientation. “The drag queen might appear as a comic figure, but he carries an utterly serious message: the deconstruction of sex, the reconstruction of child sexuality, and the subversion of middle-class family life,” wrote Rufo in an essay about Drag Queen Story Hour, a public event series in which drag queens read to children and lead singalongs.

All over the country, Drag Queen Story Hours have been targeted by Proud Boys and other demonstrators, some heavily armed. In August, the Republican congresswoman Lauren Boebert tweeted a photo of a flier for a Drag Queen Story Hour at a Colorado public library with the words, “Sending a message to all the drag queens out there: stay away from the children in Colorado’s Third District!” The Daily Wire’s Matt Walsh described drag events involving kids as a “cancer,” and wrote that “just like cancer, stopping it is not a gentle or a painless process.”

It’s been clear for some time that there are people willing to act on such ideas. Just last month, a man in a red baseball cap firebombed a Tulsa doughnut shop that had hosted a drag event. According to The Tulsa World, the vandal “left a note on a neighboring business that contained Bible verses and hateful rhetoric.”

Now that a mass shooting has drawn attention to the danger of the right’s dehumanizing language, many of those who have demagogued about trans kids and drag queens are painting themselves as victims. “The quest by the Democratic leadership and media to link a horrifically evil shooting at a Colorado gay club to anyone who doesn’t support a progressive social agenda is ongoing and terrible for the country,” tweeted the writer and podcaster Ben Shapiro. It was an attempt to frame any call for tolerance and responsibility as intellectual bullying.

There are, I believe, legitimate debates over questions like when puberty blockers should be prescribed or gender-confirming surgeries performed on minors. But people who hurl baseless accusations of child abuse are not engaged in a debate. Their project is one of demonization in the service of domination, akin to the anti-abortion extremists who put doctors’ faces on “Wanted” posters. They’ve been screaming that drag events — like the brunch that should have happened at Club Q on Sunday — are part of a monstrous plot to prey on children. They don’t get to duck responsibility if a sick man with a gun took them seriously.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

@jca2 Thank you for posting the whole piece. I want to remind Fluther I am a proud drag queen. If you vote for Republicans, you vote for my death.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

Do you know what I just finished doing just this second? I just had a chat with my drag daughter who is in hysterics in her hotel room in Boston. She’s flying to Chicago tomorrow, and she’s terrified! She changed her Chicago hotel to one closer to her friend’s apartment to minimize her time on the streets. She’s a gorgeous trans woman, the most reviled person in the US because of Republicans.

I had to walk her through some grounding techniques and deep breathing. I reminded her of her own courage to face the bigots who chase her out of bathrooms where she works in LA.

She’s feeling better, because I do that kind of stuff for a living. I’m damn good at it.

I have no more patience. Republicans are murderers.

Demosthenes's avatar

El Paso County, where Colorado Springs is located, billed itself as a “2nd Amendment Sanctuary”, where there would be no enforcement of Colorado’s “red flag law”, which might explain how someone who threatened to kill his mother with a bomb was able to legally own a gun.

Information about a possible motive has still not been released.

ragingloli's avatar

The shooter is the grandson of Randy Voepel, a republican MAGA politician that supported the Jan 6th insurrection.

HP's avatar

figures

janbb's avatar

A friend had posted this quote from Pete Buttigi which is very apt:

“If you’re a politician or media figure who sets up the LGBTQ community to be hated and feared – not because any of us ever harmed you but because you find it useful – then don’t you dare act surprised when this kind of violence follows.
Don’t you dare act surprised.”

janbb's avatar

Edit: It’s Pete “Buttigieg” of course.

Demosthenes's avatar

Attorneys for the shooter now reporting the shooter identifies as nonbinary and uses “they/them” pronouns. So that’s interesting.

I would always caution against forming narratives around a mass casualty event before details are known.

JLeslie's avatar

@Demosthenes I heard this morning that it might be a legal tactic to put out into the public areas that the perpetrator prefers non-binary pronouns.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@JLeslie @Demosthenes I have not been following this closely, but I was thinking that it could be a rush to judgement that this was hate driven. Just because he was the grandson of a maga republican does not automatically mean this guy was one as well. This could have been a crime of passion, or it could be hate.

janbb's avatar

@Blackwater_Park Sorry, Charlie but anyone who goes to an event and murders 6 people and potentially more is hate driven. There is no other interpretation.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

The father of the murderer was interviewed on the news. He stated calmly he’s only glad to know his son isn’t gay. He doesn’t give a fuck that he’s a mass murderer. He doesn’t care a wit that he slaughtered human beings. Fucking bigots! Fuck Republicans!

ragingloli's avatar

His father does look like half his brain was replaced by purified meth.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@janbb I would not consider someone lashing out at people that shunned them or something like that the same as going to a place they don’t go to to kill people they don’t know or like because of some sick ideology the same. It is hate, but motivations are important.

janbb's avatar

@Blackwater_Park I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree then.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@janbb I mean we don’t really disagree, but you must think that determining the motivation is important right? Frankly, if it’s ideologically driven, there are broader implications to consider.

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