Was 6 January an actual attempt at insurrection?

Yes it was. And, an attempt to normalize such attempts.

For example, today I see the headline on r/NewsOfTheStupid: Trump Calls for Election Loser Kari Lake to ‘Be Installed Governor of Arizona’

Sounds like insurrection to me ! ...>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/oath-keepers-trial-verdict/index.html

Oath Keepers found guilty !

Does that mean the Tangerine Turd maybe on deck for a court appearance, same charges ??

The stated and documented intent was to break in and overthrow the capital, capture and/or harm the Speaker of the House and Vice President and force them to change the ejection results.

If we read about this happening in any other country, what would we call it?

Sedition yes. Insurrection? Not exactly a civil war, but could have led to one if was slightly more successful. For example if Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence where captured. The symbolism of a loss from the government would embolden future attempts at escalation of conflicts.

Merriam-Webster:

in​sur​rec​tion: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

Attempt? no Actual action? yes
edited

Only in the demented minds of the people who took part. Any sane person would recognize how pathic and hopeless such an attempt it was.

Insurrection is in the act of forceful rising up against the government. The matter of whether or not said government is successfully overthrown is irrelevant.

Obviously.

I think this is complicated, and the degree of blame I assign is wildly inconsistent.

First, Trump is ultimately personally responsible for all of it. He invented the fraud lie out of whole cloth, planned that lie in advance (I believe), amped up the crowd, created the conditions that caused it, and then was negligent for hours as he delayed sending in help.

HOWEVER….I don’t think what happened is what he intended, nor what he envisioned. Trump was negligent and reckless. But I think he was as surprised by what happened as anyone. Trump is less a criminal mastermind and more one of those stupid kids who lights firecrackers in his nose because he thinks it will be hilarious…and then realizes how horrifically wrong he was AFTER the firecrackers go off. Simply put – I don’t have a high enough opinion of him to think of him as some mastermind.

I also think the MAJORITY of the people at the Jan 6 thing were just rank and file MAGA people caught up in emotion and the moment. The ones out front who were gladly let in by capitol police probably didn’t even realize they were doing anything illegal. They likely had little idea that the violence of the day was happening since much of it happened elsewhere at first.

But then there are these Proud Boys and Oathkeepers, some of whom stupidly RECORDED THEMSELVES planning to create a violent showdown. There are people who showed up that day and incited an angry crowd to turn violent. These people are the ones I reserve the word insurrection for.

I agree fundamentally with most of @Entropy ‘s take. When it comes to the laws, history and working of government, Trump is without question the most impossibly ignorant man to ever stumble into the Presidency. Where I disagree emphatically is with that business of realizing he has made a huge mistake. The man is an out and out psychopath. Were he connected to a lie detector and asked if ever in his life he was wrong or committed an error, he could answer “No” emphatically and pass with flying colors. He is just that deranged. The very concept of a coup is meaningless to him. He is supposed to be President. If he isn’t President, it is not possibly his fault, NOTHING EVER IS. The only permissible explanation is that he was swindled. End of story.

Whether they were successful or not, inept chuckleheads or not, their intent was clear because many of them wrote about it on social media and spoke about it when interviewed. And that’s putting aside Trump’s role in it.

Yes. Many got felony charges for weapons including molotov cocktails. If they were unarmed, my opinion would be different.

@KNOWITALL: Good point. If they brought weapons, they intended to use them.

@cookieman Over 74 million votes were cast for Trump yet only hundreds were reported on Jan 6th for this act.
So a very small percentage took part, fortunately.

Sure as hell looked like it, the Republicans would argue that it was only a mild protest for justice.

Arson should always be treated seriously because the results can be catastrophic. Sedition is no less dangerous.

Sedition is about “burning down” the state.

The truth will come to you in due time.

The facts will come out in time. The truth may be more elusive.

The people involved seemed to have varying ideas of what was expected of them, but some were obviously there to generally bum rush the Capitol for whatever reason. The timing wasn’t accidental though. The coup minded people involved understood, after twice foretelling fraud, and generally pressing every constitutional limit to raw power, that the legal proceedings of January 6th were a possible last ditch mechanism whereby they could steal the election.

Yes, it could have been a coup, if it had worked as some wished it to have. Who wished it had? Oh, to know the hearts of men. We can all have our theories about what Trump thought and when, but he has worked his whole life to prevent that kind of understanding.

But to indulge you, I will say I do believe it. I believe his lived experience taught him to be enough of a cynic and that he thought it was a possible. I expect the more logical part of his mind knew that pretending to prepare to stage a coup would play well with his base, bring in donations, ruin Biden’s day, and give him just enough cover to hopefully not be tried for treason, at worst, and just maybe actually deliver him another term, at best.

@KNOWITALL: Oh, I get that not all Trump supporters are crazy — it’s that the ones that are crazy, are REALLY crazy.

Nicely put. But he stands culpable regardless. For he either truly believes he was defrauded of the Presidency, or he played his followers for the chumps they certainly are. The only other possibility is a combination of both. And in regard to the entire fiasco, every minute he remains free from from conviction and SEVERE punishment reinforces his lifelong perception of “crime doesn’t pay” as a philosophy for suckers.

@cookieman…...crazy as in it didn’t cross their minds that they’d lose their jobs and life as they knew it.

@cookieman It’s complicated. The man I know who went on Jan 6th is educated and from a good family. Has property, money and a family of his own.
I think most are guilty of believing in a politician so much, they tried to cause harm to others.

@KNOWITALL: You know as well as I do that someone’s seeming status in the community, education level, or family status does not preclude them from being crazy.

Secondly, there’s a large gap here for me that I don’t understand:

“…most are guilty of believing in a politician so much…”

okay, I follow that…

“they tried to cause harm to others.”

I’m sorry but one does not naturally follow the other. There are other steps, other factors that get you from extreme belief in a public figure to wanting to harm someone.

My aunt and her family were obsessed, almost zealot-like Massachusetts-Kennedy-Democrats. Always donating money. Stood on corners with signs. Went to every event. JFK and any politician in that vein were practically gods.

Never once wanted to harm anyone.

Explain that gap to me.

@cookieman Not all who attended or went inside intended harm or had weapons.
He had a handfast wedding and is a bit witchy so it would be difficilt to imagine him intending on causing harm as that is against his beliefs.
Personally I don’t use the word crazy lightly, caught up in mob mentality or the cult of personality perhaps.

Any of that crowd that breached the Capital grounds ,then entered the building went from protestor, to rioter insurrectionist no other way to look at it.