Have you heard of the Nashville shooter, today that fatally shot three 9 year olds?

Just saw it on the news. Absolute hate crime, no way around it. Learning about the shooter was no surprise to me; kind of assumed that much.

How was it a hate crime @Acrylic?

Yes. Also rare for a woman to commit a mass shooting.

I’m interested in seeing what was in her Manifesto. The reports all say they found it but not one has actually reported what is in it. Trans woman, manifesto, Christian school. Possible hate crime. Insane? I’d say so. Anyone walking into an elementary school to kill people is insane.

At least the school is safe from woke drag queens.
This really is sickening.

Thank God Tennessee protects children from drag queens.

Fucking worthless Republicans.

@seawulf575 …“Insane”...

That’s one of my pet peeves. Insanity is not a description of mental health, it’s a legal state where one cannot be held criminally liable for their actions, often because they can’t understand right from wrong at the time of the crime. There are several tests such as the M’Naghten Rule; the Irresistible Impulse Test; the Durham Rule; and the Model Penal Code test.

This person is certainly sick in the head, but I don’t know whether they should be found not guilty due to insanity or if they’re just disturbed.

@gorillapaws Exactly.

Yes, shocked and sickened by it. Just waiting on the usual Thoughts and Prayers rhetoric from the Repukes.

Why a hate crime? Wasn’t this a Christian who didn’t want to go to Christian school? What was the motive? Maybe I heard incorrectly. I didn’t see it in the article that is linked, did I miss it?

@NoMore ”...the usual Thoughts and Prayers rhetoric…”

Thoughts and prayers are clearly effective in preventing mass shootings…

My husband JUST commented “so tired of the thoughts and prayers.” He’s watching Maddow about the shooting.

Don’t misread what he means. He has no problem with people who pray. For all I know he prays also, I have no idea. He has a problem with people who say they’ll pray, but are doing nothing, or even aiding in, more violence in the country. It’s empty words.

Sorry for another post.

My observation is shooting that happen in schools that are primarily Republican families doesn’t spur any major activism to reduce gun ownership. Nashville has a lot of Democrats, but I’m guessing a Christian school is mostly Republicans.

The Sandy Hook shooting years ago and the shooting at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas where you saw parents or students persist in trying to affect change regarding gun ownership were heavily Democratic areas.

Uvalde maybe was a little different, many parents spoke up, and that County is very Republican, not sure about the town, but they seem to be focusing on police reaction not gun ownership.

Nothing will change because too many people think guns aren’t the problem.

I just reread the story and I start crying again. I am so tired of these school shootings. How many kids have to die before we do something about this?

There’s so much I want to say but I don’t know how to properly express myself because I feel numb.

This is a horrible tragedy that some republicans will use to justify their transphobia and transphobic laws.

This is a gun issue.
This is a mental health issue.
This is NOT a transgender issue.

Wait, was the shooter transgender? I completely missed that.

Yes

What is the best way to keep the convo off the gun issue??? Make it a trans issue!!! The last thing I saw said they CANNOT verify at this time that she was trans. They can verify that she had a 2nd location planned but security was too tight there. Gotta give Nashville LEOs their props for receiving the call & having the shooter neutralized in under 14 minutes.

@LadyMarissa YES! The police acted very fast and stopped her. Biden is making this a GUN issue good thing we need to get gun control and fast!

I heard about a shooter that shot three nine year olds and three adults. Glad the cops acted quickly!
We really REALLY need to arm everyone!

Is the shooter still alive?

@RedDeerGuy1 No she is dead.

@kritiper Today a UW-Madison student shot himself outside his residence hall in front of dozens of other students and faculty. He didn’t survive. Do we really need more guns?

NO @RedDeerGuy1 the cops had shot her dead within 14 minutes of her firing her first shot.

@kritiper I hope you are kidding about needing more guns.

Please don’t be kidding on this thread. :(

@chyna Do you have a better idea??

@kritiper If you want to talk about the gun issue please make another thread. That is another subject and I don’t want this tragedy to be a shouting contest over assault weapons.

What was the weapon she used?
I didn’t get that in any reports I heard.

And to answer the question it isn’t going to stop until ,there is sensible gun laws in place, and people that need it can get mental health care without the fear of facing a life of financial ruin.
But when it comes to the states and it doesn’t matter who is in power I don’t see either of those happening anytime soon.

@SQUEEKY2 She used an assault style rifle and handgun and a regular handgun. She had three guns with her.

These school shooting are the most disturbing ,you have to be beyond sick to shoot kids.

Had she attended that school?

Also, trans woman? Is that right? She was originally living as a he?

I’m going with Christians who hate might be what pushed this woman to snap. Not that I excuse what she did, it’s inexcusable. I absolutely do not mean all Christians, I mean the far right wing very vocal group out there promoting hate. Those Christians are actually constantly verbally assaulting the LGBTQ community.

It’s the Nazi formula. Pick on small groups. Jews, Gypsies, disabled, LGBTQ. Convince people these groups are big and a threat.

I don’t see why this incident will change gun laws when the others haven’t (I hope I’m wrong). I don’t see why no one on my TV is talking about the hate speech destroying individuals and our country.

I keep thinking of the old saying “you get what you give.” Again I’m not excusing the shooter, just looking at maybe what the underlying causes were that lead to this shooting.

@JLeslie I saw on the news that she had attended that school, and she hadn’t wanted to attend that school but her parents made her.

The school was protected by a locked door which would deter anyone from entering the building apart from someone with an assault rifle intent on murder.

@flutherother Or someone with a baseball bat. Or a brick. Crowbar.

@seawulf575 You are giving assault rifles a bad name associating them with baseball bats and crowbars.

@jca2 If that’s the case then I really don’t see it as a Christian hate crime. What do you think?

If a Jewish woman shot up an ultra-orthodox Jewish school she had attended because the group leaders in the school and in the community throughout her childhood and life constantly messaged that people like her are an abomination and should be shunned, I would not call that a hate crime.

@JLeslie I don’t know enough about this particular incident to say. I don’t know if the shooter made comments against Christians or anything. I’ll wait for the authorities to decide, based on what information they have.

The FBI has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender, or gender identity.”

@kritiper @seawulf575 F the NRA and the thought of needing more guns.

@Dig_Dug How many more have to die before gun-loving Americans support gun control? Five million dead kids by shootings or ten is not enough. They don’t believe it’s the solution, much less any kind of potential solution.

If they lose their own kids to shootings they will just have more kids and give them guns in infancy. That’s how insanely obsessed they are with their freedom to own guns.

It’s the only freedom they believe in. If they had their way, the rest of us would have no freedom at all. Gays, transgenders, bi’s, women who have abortions, MDs who give abortions, atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Jews, and so many others would be sitting in prison. They can take their guns and shove them up their fucking ass. Excuse my language but I’m fed up to my eyeballs with these moronic cretins. And don’t give me that thoughts and prayers bull shit. I’ll have some for you when the government gets their head out of shitty ass and outlaws assault weapons.

@cheebdragon I’ll be curious to see how it’s classified. To me it is not a hate crime with the information I have heard so far. Seems very targeted against that school.

Anytime anyone enters a school building with an intent to commit mass murder or mayhem, no matter what the weapon(s), I’d call that a hate crime. (IMHO)

@Strauss I wish I could give you a million GA!
@mazingerz88 This sickens me so much I am numb I want to ..I can’t find the words. I don’t know if you saw the woman that got on the air at the Fox News where this happened but she asked “Aren’t they tired of reporting on these school shootings?” I’m so mad at this I can’t think straight.

@Strauss Then you could probably call all murders hate crimes. You must not be from a frequently targeted group.

Some Christian leaders are very quick to label anything they can as violence against Christians to scare their flock or somehow try to make it seem like Christians are attacked as much as minority communities. They tried initially when there was the mass shooting at the Black church in Charleston; some leaders first tried to promote as a mass shooting in a Christian church, paring it with comments about attacks on Christianity around the world. Shame on them!

There are Christians and Christianity under attack in some parts of the world, but not the US. They initially tried to erase that the shooter was racist and targeting Black people. He randomly went to a Black church that he had no association with.

@Dig_Dug GA why?

I’m not sure why we need to label this crime as a hate crime against any certain group.

I could see a benefit to labeling it a hate crime against a certain group if the shooter was still alive, so therefore additional charges could be brought, but the shooter is deceased now so I don’t see the benefit either, except maybe for statistics?

That’s right, it is partly about statistics, but also about being able to use it as rhetoric that Christians are under attack just as much as any group. The alt-right uses fear to motivate their people to buy guns, vote, and to commit crimes all in the name of God and country. It’s one thing when there is real reason to be worried about violence towards your group, but another to propagate false ideas about the real risk.

That all is an aside from the fact that school shootings as a trend is something for everyone to be concerned about no matter what race, religion, or ethnicity.

This was definitely a hate crime! This person went to this school in the past and hated it.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/former-christian-school-student-kills-3-children-3-staff-nashville-shooting-2023-03-28/

I had stopped following this thread. I have not read what was posted after I answered above.

This is not a hate crime. Hate crimes are against an innate characteristic of the victim such as race or sexual orientation or gender identity. Religion is a choice. It is not an innate characteristic.

I will now once again stop following.

I’m popping back in to say that a kind person pointed out to me that indeed religions have been used in the past to target individuals for crimes steeped in hate. I am corrected. I do not know the motives of the shooter, but it might be possible to label this a hate crime.

I read it on the news

Englisch?

@JLeslie just for you:
https://www-der--postillon-com.translate.goog/2023/03/mass-shooting.html?m=1&_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

The far right want to call this a hate crime so they can feel justified when they talk about scary transgender people.

It is not a hate crime.

If they had gone into a random Christian school because they hated Christians, it would be a hate crime.

This isn’t a hate crime because they actually attended this school and it was personal.

Unless we are going to consider every school shooting where the shooter targeted their own school a hate crime?

Filled with hate, yes.
A hate crime, no.

But this whole hate crime discussion is really a derailment and a distraction from the horror of what keeps happening in our country.

@janbb I agree and I do see the major opinions appear to believe it was not hate motivated (I beg to differ) but this type of crime needs to stop no matter what the motivation!
The definition of hate crime this is!

@Dig_Dug who do you think the shooter hated?

The very first answer called it a hate crime, and I’m pretty sure from other answers, that that jelly is an Evangelical Christian (please correct me if I’m wrong). I find it pretty horrible when the leaders in the Christian right (politicians, clergy, Fox News hosts, and right wing radio) spread their rhetoric about Christians and Christianity being at risk, or victims of hate crimes at the same rate as minority religions, races, ethnicity, or the LGBTQ community. It’s flat out statistically false In the US. The rate per hundred thousand is extremely small compared to hate crimes against Jews, Muslims, Blacks, and LGBTQ.

It’s a political tactic to scare people so they will buy guns, vote, and fight.

@janbb You think it is a derailment why? Because you want to talk about the guns? Selling this as a hate crime against Christians helps them sell more guns! Don’t you see the connection?

@Dig_Dug There is a specific legal definition of a hate crime as @raum has clearly explained. It’s an important distinction, I just don’t think it’s the largest issue here right now.

Her parents said she was in treatment for mental issues.

She was born a female but recently started referring to herself with male pronouns on social media. I didn’t see any evidence that she took it any further than that. So I wouldn’t call her transgender..

I know she hated the school because she used to go there. I have to see exactly what her manifesto has in it, she did have other locations picked out to target also.

@Dig_Dug I think you might not understand what the legal definition of a hate crime is.

@Dutchess not all transgender people take physical means to change their body. The first step is to change pronouns and names.

Laws help to move culture. That’s one reason to enact a law.

There were fewer mass shootings when there was a law against those assault weapons. That’s another reason to try it again.

If it prevented half the deaths that would be enough reason to create a law, or reinstate the previous law.

Bush and Reagan supported those laws. Bush left the NRA when they put out propaganda about federal agents.

@seawulf575 how many people could he or she have killed with a baseball bat or a brick?

It’s good to know that when gun loving Americans’ kids get killed in a shooting —— bodies shredded by bullets, they’ll comfort themselves saying, Oh well, why blame guns, my kid would have been killed by a knife or a baseball bat anyway.
Right.

Per Marjorie Taylor Green’s Twitter page: “Antifa is organizing a Trans Day of Vengeance.”
Per NBC News: “Fear pervades trans community amid focus on Nashville shooter’s identity.”
This. This is why we should not jump into labeling the person or their intentions before any real information is known.

We need a gun nut vengeance. Count me in.

@chyna I’ve spoken to a few trans adults since the shooting and they have friends suggesting they buy a gun for their own protection because of the misinformation that is being spread by MAGA. MAGA are posting the names of several recent shooters and saying they were all transgender. They are blaming the hormones they take. (I hate this so much.)

^This makes my heart hurt.

Oh God this is just getting worse! How could something this awful get worse? But it is. When will this nightmare end?

They haven’t yet determined whether or not it’s a hate crime because they are still searching for a motive, as of the Wednesday evening news. Whether or not it’s a hate crime is not determined by us, it’s determined by the motive.

@Dutchess_III Why was a gun required to break the glass on the front door? The comment I was responding to implied that was the only thing that allowed the shooter to get through the locked door. She shot out the glass. You could have broken the glass with a baseball bat or a brick just as well.

@seawulf575…..breaking out glass was not her main goal, silly.

@Dutchess_III No, it wasn’t. But neither was the gun the only way she could break the glass on the front door, which is what was being said.

@seawulf575 Banning assault riffles is not really random. And having people go through background checks, including mental health background checks is not taking away gun rights. As with getting a driver’s license, it’s to ensure the person is qualified to drive or in case of a gun, to be a responsible gun owner.

@chyna Here’s the problem with your hypothesis. You assume assault rifles are used only for killing kids. To start with, civilians don’t own assault weapons generally. Assault weapons are fully automatic. Those semi-automatic guns that look so scary are not assault weapons. But now that I have corrected your improper use of terms, let’s go on to look at the rest of your garbage statement. Guns like the AR-15 is used far more often for home defense than for mass shootings. The problem is that fact doesn’t help those that want to disarm the populace so it is suppressed.

Hmm, I very rarely hear stories about intruders being scared away because the homeowner had an AR-15.

I have heard of intruders being scared off because the owner had a handgun.

@seawulf575 your last post to @chyna is way out to lunch, she said nothing about banning the AR15 but these shooters are walking right through the back ground checks, and people that want to own these types of weapons should have more than the average background check ,I like the idea of registering the weapon as well, to make sure they are safe to own this type of rifle, she didn’t say bann them.
And Wulfie I am a firearm enthusiast ,but unlike you guys in the wild, wild states I have never needed or even considered any of my guns for home or self defence.

@Jonsblond The problem is you have to get off MSM to find the stories. But they happen far more than you like to think. Here’s an example:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/defensive-ar-15-uses/

If you dig in deeper on searches you can find that in some instances, the AR-15 is unloaded and yet still makes the intruders run off.

What is really tragic about the shooting is that it was an elaborate form of suicide. Link The shooter was not deterred by other people with guns, It in fact encouraged her.

@seawulf575 based on your “Guns like the AR-15 is used far more often for home defense than for mass shootings”
Care to share that research statistic. Just owning one is not a statistic for the self defense here. How many people have actually used an AR-15 in a home defense act? I think your statement is busted and shows how you make pointless arguments with baseless “facts”.

@Forever_Free I gave a citation a few comments up. It is not a complete list, BTW, but it is an example. Because you don’t want to look at it, doesn’t mean it is a baseless fact.

@Forever_Free the link provided by @seawulf575 is not for AR-15s protecting against home invasions. It provides 10 examples, and 3 or 4 of those are not home invasions (i.e. shot an alligator, etc.).

@seawulf575 I couldn’t find your “citation” must be because I’m so stupid. But I agree with @Forever_Free you like to say crap that has no real basis. Seems to me that nearly every crime committed against schools includes assault weapons. Prove us wrong!

@jca2 shot an alligator, etc…lol that’s rich!

@jca2 has no problem finding the citation. And he is correct that not all are being used for home defense. But all are being used for defense. The first was for shooting an alligator. The alligator had chased a young lady that managed to get up a tree. The alligator wanted its meal so was waiting for the girl to tire and fall. A ranger with an AR-15 heard the noise and shot the alligator, saving the girl. The second was a story about 7 armed people that broke into a home where there were 4 people. Two of the occupants got guns, one was an AR-15, and they fought off the intruders after the intruders fired a shot. The third saw a puddle of blood in the hallway of his apartment building. He got his AR-15 and followed the sound of conflict. He found his neighbor being stabbed by another neighbor. Just the show of force was enough to stop the stabbing and he was able to save his neighbors life. The list goes on.

@Dig_Dug Once again, you challenge me when all you have is emotion and no facts. Okay, I’ll prove how wrong you are:

https://www.campussafetymagazine.com/safety/k-12-school-shooting-statistics-everyone-should-know/

If you look at K-12 shootings incidents since 1970 there have been 1924. A rifle was only used in 107 of those. Oops. That is only 5% of the time. Oh! and so we are clear on what was defined as an incident, they defined it as “a gun is brandished, is fired, or a bullet hits school property for any reason, regardless of the number of victims (including zero), time, day of the week, or reason.”

So now you weren’t able to scroll up 10 comments to find my citation and you make wild claims that are just lies. Stupid? I’ll let you decide how to define it.

There should be strict laws controlling the purchase of all guns. ⅔ of all gun deaths are suicides, and most of those suicides were preventable. The Nashville shooting was a suicide.
Link

@seawulf575 @jca2 I read the link. It did not speak to statistics the @seawulf575 stated that “Guns like the AR-15 is used far more often for home defense than for mass shootings”
Please don’t avoid the question that asked for the basis of the statement that was made.

This is exactly what happens when people make claims that they cannot back up or simply point you to something on the subject without merit to the statement.
I am happy to read where you got the facts to make that statement – “Guns like the AR-15 is used far more often for home defense than for mass shootings”

@Forever_Free I never said I disagreed with you. @seawulf575‘s link definitely didn’t show the AR-15 defending home invasions, which was what you asked for, I know. That’s why I was pointing out that it referred to about six home invasions (which I don’t think of as a lot, by the way) and a sprinkling of other stuff.

@seawulf575
5% is a huge number in the scope of magnitude of this topic and other topics.
That is like saying it is acceptable to have 5% of the population die in every major storm.
Anything above zero is an issue.

@jca2 Yes, I agree. The link did not provide valid backing to the statement. I included you in the note as validation.

@seawulf575 I’m a “she,” not a “he.”

@seawulf575 THAT was what you were talking about, 10 stories? I thought you had some real statistics that was gonna blow my mind or something. No wonder I missed it. Your defense is about as weak as Trumps.

Using any type rifle for home defence isn’t a very good idea.
A shotgun is the best home defence weapon, you have the room covered and a stray bullet isn’t and let’s forget about the people three doors down hell it will go through several walls and kill one of your own family members a couple of rooms away.

@Forever_Free You do see the hypocrisy you are spouting here, right? You claim 5% of the total shootings is unacceptable and anything over zero is unacceptable. Yet when presented with cases of the AR-15 being used in defense you support @Jca2 in her claim it isn’t many and they aren’t verified. Isn’t it pitiful that not a single one of you have shown a single citation to support your arguments but want to negate anything that doesn’t support your narrative? Negate it without proof to shoot it down as well.

@seawulf575 https://americangunfacts.com/guns-used-in-self-defense-stats/

The most common type of firearm used (by almost two-thirds) was handguns, likely due to their compact nature which makes them easy to concealed carry. Handguns are also easier to maneuver in tight quarter situations such as a home or vehicle.

I found a good right leaning gun loving site for your facts.

@Jonsblond Handguns ARE used the most…in school shootings and in home defense. But the claim was that AR-15 are used more in home defense than in school shootings, not that they were used more than any other weapon. I also made the claim that AR-15s are used less than hands and feet or knives to kill people. If you want to get to statistics, this is about as good as you can get when it comes to what weapons are used the most.

@LostInParadise Your comment was lost in the shuffle, I’m afraid. Yet it came closest to what I am talking about. When you said that many of the gun deaths are suicides and that the Nashville shooter was looking to die, you are opening up the door to the discussion of what the real issues might be. Good job!

I do hesitate to jump on the claim that suicides by gun are preventable. The use of the gun might be preventable but that is not the same as saying the suicide is preventable. There are many avenues for people to get help when considering suicide. Each of the gun suicides decided to not take those avenues or, worse yet, took them and they didn’t work. This is something I am interested in. My father committed suicide. I believe I was the last person he spoke to before jumping off the bridge. There were many things wrong in his life, but they weren’t insurmountable. I was trying to work with him to get the help physically, financially, and psychologically, but he had had enough apparently.

My point is that sometimes people just hit their limit and they see no hope in sight and there is no helping them. Suicide stops being preventable when they get to that point. So whether they use a gun, or jump off a bridge, or cut their wrists, or take poison or drug overdoses, the suicide is going to happen.

I think we are losing sight of the people who were murdered. I think the first of the six victims is being buried today. A nine year old child.

@chyna Good point. The country should take a moment to think about these children, their families, and everyone directly affected.

I haven’t kept up with this story, is anyone directly associated with the school asking for more gun laws?

One of my Christian Tennessee acquaintances surprising became very vocal last election that she was voting Democrat for the first time in 40 years when TN basically outlawed abortion after Roe was overturned. A few days ago I saw her post about gun laws. I can only hope they are more people like her willing to step away from the party and friends and family. I give her credit. Her husband is still very aligned with the Republicans. I always say if we get the country and world going in the right direction it will be the women leading, even though I acknowledge plenty of men are liberal and have been liberal leaders.

@JLeslie More power to her and I sure hope she can get something going down there. But the sad truth is a LOT of people in Tennessee are NRA supporters.

@Dig_Dug I lived in the Memphis area for 8 years, and very part time in Nashville for 3 years. Tennessee is almost impossible to shift over to the blue side as a state, still her voice probably makes some difference, especially at the local level. We need more voices like hers to help in states that are more 50/50 swing states.

Tennessee was the most gun oriented state I’ve lived in, and I live in FL where gun laws are pretty loose.

If this doesn’t make you sick, nothing will.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country

^^It makes me sick but I do think it should also be listed per 100,000 students and also as a ratio to schools. The US will still be high on the list, Maybe still the highest, but it’s a more honest way to look at it.

That there is even one school shooting in a year is still hard for me to grasp. 40 years ago I thought of school shooting as being once every ten years, I’m not sure of the actual frequency.

America has a serious problem and a lot of crazy people and a lot of overly powered guns makes for a very lethal and horribly dangerous environment for our children to try to grow and learn in. Unless we do something about this, we’re all going to suffer.

This was a very interesting article in the New York Times today about gun laws and Governor Bill Lee. I hope it will open:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/29/opinion/nashville-shooting-governor-response.html?searchResultPosition=1

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