What happened in the Tennessee state house that led to the expulsion of two congressmen?

I watched a bit of it last week. While I am all for Freedom of speech, I think it was carried a bit far in chambers.
Here is the cspan from the day

They didn’t follow protocol and they were disruptive.

^^Yes, I know, but were there people not allowed on the premises there?

There were citizens allowed into the gallery of the Chamber. That is permissible under the rules. The crowd in the gallery was “disruptive” and three legislators spoke out in support of what the protestors were shouting about.

They were protesting that despite a mass shooting that killed six, including 3 9-year old children, the TN legislature just last week lowered the age to carry a weapon from 21 to 18, and the deferred any legislation on gun control until 2024 at the earliest.

And then the GOP super majority voted to expel the two black legislators (while not ousting the third protesting legislator who is a white woman.)

@Forever_Free I just watched the recording you linked. Thank you! Some people are trying to compare it to January 6th, and as far as I knew, no one had broken in nor was trespassing on the property, and as far as I knew no one felt physically threatened, or was harmed, so I was wondering if I was missing something. From your video it doesn’t look like I was missing anything.

The two black members were, more or less, ousted because they used a bull horn to voice their complaints while the white woman didn’t use a bull horn.

OMG, so it takes a mass shooting in their state and they lower gun regulations, and these two are thrown out for being disruptive?

@SQUEEKY2 Apparently if everyone is armed there’ll be less shootings. Apparently…

The Republicans don’t like black men who are loud when they speak.

There are many things I don’t know for sure about the events of that day. There were protesters inside the state house (outside the House Chambers). Did they have a permit and permission to protest inside that area? Did any such permit and/or permission include that ability to try interrupting the House business and processes?

I understand why the two representatives were ousted. Effectively staging a protest by using a bullhorn inside the House Chambers is so far out of what is acceptable that you could say they ousted themselves. I pretty much believe the woman with them should have been ousted as well. The only thing they did that she didn’t was use the bullhorn. But out of control is out of control.

^^From everything I’ve researched, everyone in the chamber and on the premises was allowed to be there. It looks like it was just a matter of not following protocol.

The link above shows what happened.

It certainly doesn’t compare to January 6th. I know you didn’t say it did, but I see some people saying that, like Democrats are being hypocrites.

I also have Republican friends vehemently saying it was not racist expelling them.

@JLeslie The link shows what happened but doesn’t go into the back story. As for being similar to Jan 6th, there very well could be similarities. Look at what many of the protesters on J6 were charged with. Two of the most common was parading and protesting inside the Capitol and interfering with the duties of our elected officials. If the Tennessee protesters did not have a permit or permission to be there, then they are guilty exactly of what many J6 protesters were charged with. There was no vandalism and no violence, I’ll give you that, but then most of those arrested and charged for J6 were not guilty of those things either. Many inside the Capitol that day were literally let in by police. They weren’t being particularly noisy or disruptive to anyone or anything. Yet the claim is they were there illegally so they are guilty.

That is why I asked about the permits and/or permissions to be there and be loudly protesting inside the building. I can’t find any information about that at all. And the police never said they were there legally, they just opted to not make arrests. That could be for a number of reasons including trying to keep things from escalating or maybe because they didn’t have enough paddy wagons to get them all. But if they were protesting illegally and trying to interrupt the House, then they are guilty of the same things as many of those on J6 that were called insurrectionists.

@kritiper please don’t buy into that as a lame excuse that they are offering up to try and prove that it was not based on racism.

@seawulf575 actually, they have a specific law on the books that says that members of the State legislature are allowed to be part of a protest. Also, as far as I know, nothing was done to any of the protesters.

I have a couple of really good reliable sources that I follow on Twitter, and I go to those people when I want to get facts about what’s going on.

@seawulf575 I haven’t heard anything saying anyone was trespassing. Have you? I’ve heard just the opposite that observers are allowed in. It seems like they were already inside. I’m sure the Republicans would be thrilled to show video of some sort of mob trampling through barriers or vandalism, but nope, nothing so far from what I’ve seen.

No one felt their life threatened. The people in the room are still there milling about. They don’t have on gas masks, they’re not being rushed out to safer rooms. No one is threatening anyone.

They just wanted to be heard. I don’t agree with breaking protocol, but it was not a January 6th. They didn’t try to stop up everything for hours, steal paperwork, go into congressmen’s personal offices, it’s so different.

@JLeslie it was basically what some would call, good trouble.

@LifeQuestioner I believe that members of the state legislature are allowed to be part of a protest. But that does not carry over to disrupting the operations inside the House by using a bullhorn. Had they been out with the rest of the protesters, that probably would have been fine.

@JLeslie I went looking for sources as to whether it was lawful to be protesting outside the House chambers. I couldn’t find any because of all the entries concerning the representatives getting ousted. Those clutter up the searches. What I did find was a pamphlet from the Tennessee chapter of the ACLU explaining your rights to protest. What it looked like was that outside on the sidewalk was perfectly acceptable. Inside was one of those locations that you would need a permit or permission. I can’t find anywhere that says they did. The stories I found say the protesters were outside and came in. They made a specific point of stating they went through security, but never actually said whether their protest was actually sanctioned. It says the police did not arrest anyone. That isn’t the same as saying they were there lawfully. Given the atmosphere due to the school shooting it isn’t unreasonable to believe that the police would not necessarily enforce the laws. But that doesn’t make it legal. If it was illegal, then there is a similarity to J6. If it was legal, then there wasn’t.

As I said, I’d like to find the answers for sure on these questions. I think they NEED to be answered.

What I have found so far is:

https://www.injury-lawyer-tn.com/blog/2020/july/protest-laws-in-tennessee/

https://www.aclu-tn.org/right-protest-tennessee/

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/12/tennessee-passes-law-targeting-protesters-makes-capitol-camping-felony/3354879001/

@seawulf575 although I understand the point you made or trying to make, it would not have been anything like J6. They weren’t threatening lives, or breaking into offices and handling people’s mail. They weren’t smearing feces on the wall. They weren’t trying to obstruct the election process. Going inside and making some noise is nothing compared to January 6th. I don’t know if anybody remembers now after all the craziness of the past couple years, but sometime after Trump was elected president in 2016, the GOP was trying to repeal the ACA. People came into the building and were chanting and lying down in the hallway. But even that was nothing like J6. Permits and permission are all very well, but if we’re going to stop the slow slide into fascism, that are country seems to be trying to make, we might have to throw some tea into the harbor. I’m not calling for another January 6th but we might have to not get a permit or some such thing to save democracy.

@LifeQuestioner Please don’t assume it was just about racism. In reality, it was about people not abiding by the rules. And the white lady didn’t use a bull horn, and that may have been a factor in her not being treated like the others.
The term “racist” in many instances is just a catch-all for people who want it to be racist.

@kritiper What about the representatives tolerating Rep. Sherrell saying we should be hanging people from a tree to execute them? He’s either racist or stupid to say that in the South.

This expulsion will backfire on the Republicans. They went too far. I bet a lot of the men who voted aye regret it.

You’re probably right @JLeslie but one thing about Republicans even when very wrong they will never admit it.

@kritiper yeah, we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this. It was definitely racist and I’m just one of many people who think so.

@LifeQuestioner I will say that I think Republicans hate Democrats more than they might be racist. It’s kind of hard to separate the two in Tennessee though. When I lived in TN people usually assumed I was a Republican because I’m white. The parties are very divided along race lines so everything political seems racist whether it is or isn’t. It is the only state I’ve lived in that I experienced that. Plus, some of the racism is very subtle.

It was merely a law abiding sightseeing tour.

^^For the win!

And the guys with bullhorns were only directing people to points of interest.

I mean we can play silly little games too. It’s not a strictly Republican privilege.