How do you justify using farm animal for food?

I don’t feel the need to justify any of my living choices.

And until I carefully read your details, I had a very heated response lined up.
Thank you for your well-reasoned post.
Well played. :-)

@gondwanalon I eat meat but I’m pretty sure it’s immoral.

The reasoning that something is inevitably going to die can be used to justify killing that thing is bananas. You could use that same logic to justify farming humans for organ transplants so long as their deaths are pain free…

I think the best justification I can come up with off the top of my head would be based on some system of utilitarianism that values my enjoyment and convenience of getting my nutritional requirements from animals instead of a vegetarian diet more highly than the suffering of sentient living things being killed to provide me with that benefit. Under such a rubric, perhaps eating insects and “lesser” forms of life might be more justifiable than mammals, or even slaughtering very old animals shortly before their natural deaths. But at the extreme end of such a system would be the idea of killing animals for entertainment such as bullfighting, where the suffering of a sentient creature is worth less than the amusement of a crowd of humans.

I imagine there are some pretty intelligent arguments on this topic put forth by actual philosophers.

@gorillapaws I can’t relate my justification for using farm animals for food with harvesting humans for body parts because of one important point. Humans have rights and animals have no rights.

@gondwanalon “Humans have rights and animals have no rights.”

Why is this true? Do you have a problem with animals being tortured for entertainment such as dogfights, or blow-torching dogs alive as they do in China?

I have a problem with eating meat if I think about it. I’m not a vegetarian, but I feel badly for the animals and the animal meat clogs my arteries because of my imperfect genetics.

I think one of the hypocrisies I participate in is eating animals and thinking it’s not a good thing.

Animals like cows are not simply born and cared for on a farm. Often times the cows are impregnated through artificial insemination, which is like a rape. The cows are kept pregnant to make more cows and more milk.

At the same time, being kept on a farm is probably an easier and safer life overall than in the wild.

Chickens on some commercial farms are kept in tight quarters. Smaller farms they might have more freedom. Supposedly, animals understand when they are going to slaughter, so they likely have moment before their death that they are terrorized. Some farms are better about this than others.

Male calves are often sent to slaughter for veal. They are essentially babies taken from their mothers. I don’t eat veal.

Obviously, I’m conflicted.

They are delicious.

They owe us a debt of gratitude. Were it not for human consumption, they would be found only in the wild. How did that work out for bison? How is it going for wild horses?
Grazers get eaten, by something.
Grazers are constantly seeing feeding ground in the wild disappear.

If not for farm raised livestock, some species would be extinct by now, or in the near future.

Genesis 9:3
Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

I’m ok with it. They wouldn’t last long in the wild.

For all animals, I would draw the line at whether or not an animal may have a sense of self. This does not include most farm animals, although there are places in Asia that use macaques as slave labor, which in itself I find immoral.

Why would farm animals not have a sense of self, but some other animal would?

Same boat as @gorillapaws.

I eat meat. But I’m pretty sure it’s immoral.

Not innately immoral. Like if I were a caveman hunting deer for sustenance, that’s fine.

But the passive consumption of the meat industry is probably immoral.

That said, I passively partake in a lot of harmful systems.

I’m just a tired hypocrite.

@gorillapaws Animal should be treat well and not tortured. That is the only right that they have.
Animals do not have the same rights as humans.
I think that medical research that involves sacrificing animal lives in an effort to save or enhancing human lives is OK. Millions of people are alive today because of the advancements in medical procedures due to animal research.

PETA

People Eating Tasty Animals

@Tropical_Willie I love animals. They’re delicious. HA!

Like some carnivores, I eat meat. Unlike some carnivores, I prefer my meat to be killed quickly. (Some carnivores, if not all, will eat their prey while it is still living.)

@gondwanalon “Animal should be treat well and not tortured. That is the only right that they have”

Why? What is it that makes animals different than a rock, mushroom, poison ivy, basil plant or sequoia? I suspect if you really think about these things, you’ll realize that it starts to get complicated.

^^That’s my best answer for this Q— It’s complicated!

Conflicted.

I do eat meat but would prefer to be vegan.
Not all farmers, especially SOME Amish and corporate are even remotely decent to animals in their care.

On the other hand, as @Acrylic wrote, my religion says they were created to feed us.
Some would quickly become overpopulated, like deer and turkey, and cause human deaths, too. Not to mention diseases would take out entire species if not managed/culled.

*I refuse to eat veal. If you saw the two feet those babies have, you likely wouldn’t either.

I do eat meat but I try to limit it to only once or twice a week out of moral concerns. I like what Michael Pollan, the author of The Omnivore’s Dilemma wrote some years ago which is that since animals cannot anticipate their death, it is ok to eat them as long as they are raised in comfort and killed humanely. So – I try when I can to buy meat that is certified humane and organic – knowing that that is not a surefire guarantee. I think factory farms are a horror.

@Dutchess_III Given the feral cows in New Mexico, feral pigs all over the West, and the wild feral chickens all over Hawaii, I don’t think one can say, “They wouldn’t last long in the wild.”

@gorillapaws I don’t understand your what you are trying to say.
Animal are different from a rock because rocks don’t have DNA therefore they’re lifeless.
What makes animals different from green plants? Plants live using sunlight, CO2, H2O and nutrients to make their own food. Animals and fungi live by eating other organisms.

Yes. It’s complicated.

@gondwanalon First, I think your original question is a great one. Second what I’m getting after is that your initial analysis is overly simplified because to really address the question you’re asking you kind of have to explore a lot of things that may not initially be apparent or relevant at first glance.

In university a fellow student was pressuring me to go vegan. I gave it a try for a month. I went from 165 pounds to 129. I am 6’5” and I was already skinny. I almost died and stopped the diet as soon as I realized that I was doing it wrong.

I will talk to my Dr at May 11th, and if it comes up I will discuss. One step at a time.

@gondwanalon But it’s been proven more and more that animals are sentient beings and have emotions. Pigs and elephants, among many other animals, have great intelligence. One can find ways to justify eating them but to say they are equivalent to plants (which may well feel pain too) is specious.

I don’t like thinking about the fact that many of these animals have intelligence and personality as I eat them. So, I am also conflicted.
@KNOWITALL I used to respect the Amish, not anymore. Most of the very worst puppy mills are their doing.

I don’t try to justify using farm animals for food.

I don’t eat mammal meat.
I only eat tuna, salmon, wild turkeys, and feral chickens! ;-o

I cheer for cows when they escape their deadly confines.

I’m trying to reduce the cruelty in my diet, and I admire vegetarians and vegans for doing that.
I actually believe that their compassion for non-human animals, puts them on a higher moral level than the omnivorous one which I presently occupy.

I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian.

“Whenever certain wild animals are given the opportunity to kill and eat humans then they will do so. Also parasitic animals (including malaria and intestinal) kill well over a million humans each year.” I think revenge is a poor reason to allow yourself to eat meat. It’s very base.

“Everyday in a wild animal’s life is a struggle for food and a fight for survival risking injury and a painful death.” Again, this is a lousy reason to eat meat no matter where it’s harvested from. The fact wild animals have difficulty is not a good reason to eat meat.

“Farm animals have a short and relatively easy life. Farm animals are fed well and may or may not be well cared for and are given a quick and relatively pain free death.” You are not well educated in 21st century factory farming where the vast majority of meat is derived.

“All animals (including humans) must die at some point in their lives. And when they die other animals and microorganisms will eat them.” With this silly logic, it could be said that all people over the age of 70 should stop receiving healthcare, because they are just going to die.

@Blackwater_Park Yes, some of them are monsters, like any other group. :(

As a cannibal, I believe that eating humans for food is morally and ethically acceptable for the following reasons:

Human evolution has generated a body designed to eat a variety of foods including humans, which are animals and taste like chicken (not really. It’s like pork).

Humans are a destructive species responsible for biodiversity loss and an ongoing exctinction event killing millions of different plant and animal species. Eating humans is good for the long-term health of our planet’s sustainability and ecosystems.

Humans can be given a relatively quick and pain free death when harvested for food after a life of relative health and comfort, unlike reaching old age which comes with physical and mental debilitation and pain, and the stress of the awareness of one’s looming mortal end.

All animals (including humans) must die at some point in their lives. And when they die other animals and microorganisms will eat them—after we cannibals do.

Of course we need to feed meat products harvested from farm animals to feed to our carnivorous dogs (dogs are omnivores, but whatever) and cats to keep them healthy, and so they might as well eat human meat as dogs and cats don’t really care as long as it’s nutritious.

Don’t eat clowns. They taste funny.

@Blackwater_Park I was hoping that Oprah’s episode years ago about the puppy mills took care of some of that. I know afterwards in Pennsylvania some actions were taken to change the laws. At the time of her show the puppy mills were under the requirements of farm animals. What upset me was when I heard the follow up, they talked about changing laws for the puppies, but WTF?! Why would it be ok for any animal to be treated like that? I didn’t follow up any farther myself, because it was too upsetting for me, and I wasn’t going to be an activist on it, so I hid my head in the sand to avoid the sadness and nightmares. It seemed as though important people with power were addressing it at least for the puppies.

@Kropotkin I have had a long life due to all the “Herbs” that I have eaten. Herb Jamieson, Herb from WKRP in Cincinnati, And all the other Herb’s that I never heard of there last names.

@janbb No doubt that farm animals such as pigs, sheep and cows are smart. But they aren’t smart enough to stop humans from taking advantage. We take advantage because we can. If they had the ability to take advantage of us then they likely would. Big hungry wolves, big cats and big reptiles will have no ethical problem eating a vulnerable human if given the opportunity.

@gondwanalon ^ Again with the revenge. Is that really the best you can do?

@Kropotkin Fun fact: Cannibalisn is only illegal in Idaho.

@Hawaii_Jake Revenge? What revenge? You crack me up. HA!
I’m just talking able survival of the smartest.

@gondwanalon I’m not taking your bait. You are incapable of reasoned debate.

@Kropotkin I like to eat human livers with fava beans and Chianti.

@Hawaii_Jake I asked you a simple question and you refuse to answer. I’m not trying to trick or “bait” you (whatever that means). Also I didn’t realize that this is some kind of debate.
Aloha Brother Jake. Love ya!

Revenge might be the wrong term, but you’re basically saying might makes right when it comes to justifying the food chain.

In which case may the smartest cannibal be uneaten. Those who are eaten have only themselves to blame

@gondwanalon ” I like to eat human livers with fava beans and Chianti.”

You should try it with a nice Barbera instead.

@gondwanalon Canablism I can understand, but fava beans are past my limit. : P

I did’t know them personally.

My pet chicken that my Dad killed and cooked, I just stared at everyone at the dining table while they ate her.

I’m a carnivore. So are you.

@SnipSnip Humans are omnivores.

Yep. So, don’t forget the meat.

@Kropotkin Meatloaf again?

Also, dogs are omnivores.
Cats, OTOH, are obligate carnivores.