What is the point in having a prenup drawn up or a waiver of liability signed if people sue to have them thrown out?

As to the first part, I didn’t hear that the families signed the waivers, so they would not apply. Even if they did, they can make a case that there wasn’t enough disclosure about the lack of safety regulations. If they don’t win, they can be charged for court costs.

As to pre-nuts, if they were shoddily worded, or there wasn’t an expectation of great wealth when they were drawn up, and the partner suing to have them overturned sacrificed a certain amount, the judge may well decide that remuneration is in order, if, for example, a career was put on hold for too long to make a good comeback and such like that.

Ah, yes. I’m sure it was not the family that signed the waivers. Good way to get around the waivers.

Some rights cannot be waived regardless of what you sign, and safety waivers tend to be a big violator here. Waivers also cannot protect you from being sued for illegal behavior, so evidence of negligence can overcome legal protections.

As for the prenup, the fact that Baumgartner can sue doesn’t mean she can win. She would have to show that Costner violated the terms of their prenup or that there was some sort of deception during the negotiations.

Or, like @canidmajor mentioned, it’s possible that the wording isn’t as airtight as Costner thought. This often happens when a couple has verbally agreed to something that wasn’t actually put into writing.

Now that you’ve settled the Titan waivers…the prenup said she had to move out of the home within 30 days. They were married for 19 years & have 3 children together & 4 others that she helped with. She doesn’t want to move & I’m sure some lawyer has convinced her that she doesn’t “have to”. Irreconcilable differences was listed as the cause & that could mean a LOT of different things. One report indicated that he was never home & that bothered her. It was going along as a friendly divorce until he asked her to move out & she threw on the brakes. Most prenups are signed under duress & that is enough to void the contract. I’ve never been asked to sign one, but I always told myself that would be reason enough to NOT get married…he thinks you’re a golddigger & the marriage won’t last…to me, that’s NOT going into a stable marriage from the get go.

My Ex, who was an insurance agent, said that safety waivers were virtually meaningless. As for pre-nups, you’re only hearing about the ones that didn’t work out, not the many that worked as intended. I could see getting one if there is a great disparity in wealth or the anticipation of it or children from a prior marriage that have rights.

I heard that the families of those who died in the Titan can sue for gross negligence.

A friend’s son is engaged to be married, and he is worried that if the wife ever divorces him, she will get half of his pension (which legally she would be entitled to, he works for the State). He had a prenup drawn up. The girlfriend hasn’t been presented with it yet. If I were her, I’d be hopping mad because it wasn’t something he discussed with her, he just went to an attorney and had it drawn up. Me and the groom’s mother are hoping the bride refuses to sign it. Now, what would the groom do if the bride refuses to sign it? That remains to be seen.

@jca2 Yeah, that doesn’t sound fair at all. She is entitled to it in a common property state.

My issue with prenups (which I did not have when i was married) – is that a prenup is a document that assumes that the marriage is going to fail. It’s a pessimistic document, banking on the eventual divorce.

I have heard the argument “It’s like life insurance or car insurance’ – but it really isn’t. Your spouse can sue to divorce you for no reason at all. At least with car insurance there has to be an accident of some sort.

But back to the topic at hand -> what’s the point of suing the submersible people? except for money, what does it actually accomplish?

@elbanditoroso But that’s always the case in wrongful death suits – what’s the point? The fact that there was gross negligence in this case seems to warrant a suit to me and hopefully put the company out of business which I would assume they will be anyway.

@janbb My friend’s son (the “groom”) works in a career which is mostly men, and apparently many of his coworkers have told him horror stories about their wives divorcing them and getting their pensions, so that’s the reason for his going for the prenup. I don’t think prenups in and of themselves are necessarily a bad thing, but I think this person going on his own and consulting with an attorney is what I would be upset about if I were the girlfriend. I think it should have been a discussion and a negotiation like any negotiation. If I were the girlfriend, I’d be quite offended the way he went about it. He’s just going to spring it on her and she has no clue. The bridal shower just happened the other day.

It’s honestly a bad financial decision for men to get married at all, period. I have heard too many of the horror stories. Most of them never saw it coming and they are more or less financially wrecked for life.

“Let’s kill all the lawyers”

@Blackwater_Park Many times nowadays it is the wife who makes more money. I suppose it’s a bad idea for women to get married too since they might be financially wrecked for life?

@janbb That was the case for one of my sisters. With the passing of my mother, she should be finally able to retire, by 75, from a physically demanding career.
A pre-nup would have helped her out a lot.
Unfortunately, she shared @elbanditoroso’s rather outdated attitude.

@jca2 Please come back here and let us know how the prenup situation turns out! I can’t imagine the bride will be okay with it, but one never knows.

@janbb It can be, sure. The courts are still stacked against men though. Things are supposed to be more fair these days and they probably are but I can’t say I have ever heard of a woman having to pay alimony to her ex husband.

@Blackwater_Park then you’re not listening. We only hear about the famous ones (google it) but I know a number of women who pay alimony.

@canidmajor How proportional are those numbers? I personally don’t know a single male receiving alimony. Divorce courts just like regular courts tend to go light when it comes to females. We all know it, it’s just the way it is.

”…I can’t say I have ever heard of a woman having to pay alimony to her ex husband.”

I was just responding to that.

Of course the numbers are not what you would consider appropriate, men still earn more, women are still the primary child rearers and lose significantly more in the area of career advancement and commensurate remuneration than men.
But that’s not the question here.

Contracts do not exist to bind its participants to its terms, but as evidentiary support in the eventual lawsuits.

I worked with a woman who was a doctor and her husband made less money. She divorced him and had to pay him 4,000 a month for a year. So, it’s not really that uncommon.

@chyna In the case of my friend’s son, the bride is really in love with him and she’s so happy she’s getting married. We (me and my friend) are wondering how she (the prospective bride) will take it. I am thinking she will go for it because she’s sooo ga-ga over marrying this man. We are thinking she will be upset though and we’re also hoping she stands firm and doesn’t sign it, but then I don’t know if he will back out. Will let you know! The wedding is in a few months so he has to have this convo with her soon.

I really feel like if a couple can’t sit down and write out a pre-nuptial agreement together that is equitable to both parties then they should not get married. Springing one last minute is a total dick move.

Agreed, @Blackwater_Park.

@Blackwater_Park I agree. It does not bode well for this marriage.

@Blackwater_Park “The courts are still stacked against men though.”

[Citation needed.]

“I personally don’t know a single male receiving alimony.”

And Pauline Kael didn’t know a single person who voted for Nixon.

“Things are supposed to be more fair these days and they probably are but I can’t say I have ever heard of a woman having to pay alimony to her ex husband.”

When my parents got divorced—in 1985, which isn’t exactly recent—my mother would have had to pay alimony to my father if he hadn’t refused it. But most people don’t talk all that much about the actual legal terms of their divorce, and a lot of men are raised in circumstances that might make them embarrassed to admit to receiving alimony. So what you have personally heard isn’t relevant.

“We all know it, it’s just the way it is.”

It’s pretty telling how often you use phrases like this in lieu of actual evidence.

On the other side, Moroccan soccer player Achraf Hakimi discovered a different way to make sure his wife didn’t get a dime of his $70 million & I can see this catching on until Mom becomes a crook!!!

@Blackwater_Park Kelly Clarkson is paying a rather large alimony payment to her ex husband plus she’s paying him child support even though she currently has custody of the children. I realize that this is the exception more than the rule. I also realize that more women would be in a position to pay alimony IF they had a job that paid both males & females equally!!! I don’t remember ever hearing of many men suing for alimony when they get a divorce which could reduce the number considerably!!!.

Beyonce was smart, she refused to sign until it covered her as well as him. She agreed to not much for the first several years of marriage & then if the marriage lasted longer, she’d get more. Then after a certain number of years, she’d be deemed fully vested & receive her portion of their joint income. He also wasn’t allowed to take any of her wealth before the marriage. “Their wealth” was defined as what income that came into the family AFTER the marriage. Anything from before is to be NOT considered as “their income” but as his or her income. That is one of the more sane prenups I’ve ever heard of!!!

Other famous celeb women who had to pay that i can think of just off the bat are Britney Spears and Liz Taylor. Good point by Canid that usually, women make less because of being out of the career due to childbirth and child care.