Do we have any tax people here?

Not tax savvy but have you called the KanCare Clearinghouse at 800–792-4884, Monday through Friday between the hours of 8 am and 5 pm.

In my state you can’t have more than $1000 in the bank, can’t own life insurance policy with a cash value . . . yes you have to have financial situation that would be characterized as low income or very low income.

I worked for DSS for over 20 years – what most people do is they go to an estate planning attorney, which will cost you a few thousand dollars, and they hide the money legally in trusts. Then there’s a lookback which I think in New York is 7 years but I’m not sure what it is in your state. The government will “look back” at what you had for the past ______ amount of years and see if you had money which you hid, and they may deny you at first.

There’s also where people are virtually impoverished but just around the limit, and for those people, Medicaid will have you pay a certain amount each month (like the way you’d pay a deductible) and then the rest will be covered.

You can get a consultation with an attorney for a few hundred dollars, and they will go over with you what your options are based on what you have.

Trust me, when I worked in DSS, there were people who lived in huge mansions who had Medicaid. We did home visits and we knew it was hidden but it’s all above board, all legal.

This may be a dumb question but why Medicaid rather then Medicare in your situation, @Dutchess_III ?

Medicade @janbb

What? It’s spelled Medicaid if we’re talking about the same thing.

Ok. I did my own research and this is what I found:

“Medicaid covers healthcare costs for people with low incomes, while Medicare is a universal program providing health coverage for the elderly. Medicaid offers elder care benefits not normally covered by Medicare, including nursing home care and personal care services.”

I will just add that when I broke my ankle, I got a month or more of a home health aide, PT at home and nursing visits all free through Medicare.

Yes. I have Medicare

@Dutchess_III Got it. Wasn’t looking to derail your thread.

@janbb If I’m not mistaken, Medicare will give a few hours of an aide. I know for a fact Medicaid, at least in the County I worked in, will give a live in personal care aide. That will keep someone out of a nursing home, if the person qualifies as far as the care that they need.

I want to go to a retirement home.

You want a nursing home, @Dutchess_III ? If you own a house, they’ll take it unless you wait 7 years (if you get Medicaid).

I’ll put the title in Rick’s name

Or I’ll sell it to him.

Some people put their money in one of their children’s names or some other relative who they trust if they need to get rid of money. Medicaid usually looks back five years, meaning if you give $20k to your daughter tomorrow to hold for you, Medicaid will see you recently emptied your bank account to try to qualify. This varies a lot by state. Selling the house to your husband probably will not work for right away, because of the lookback, unless you are divorced maybe. Before you do anything so major as changing names on property or divorcing be sure. @jca2 says seven years, maybe that is correct, or maybe that varies by state too. In FL I am pretty sure I read five years.

My aunt gave my sister and I a total of about $100K and that was ok under NY Medicaid rules, we disclosed everything. We used a pooled trust for my aunt, and I still don’t completely understand it. In Florida a person can’t have more than something like $3K in their bank account to apply for Medicaid, it is a horrible incredibly low amount and they can’t make over a certain amount. I looked into for my inlaws.

In other words, check your state information online to get some basic parameters for what makes someone eligible and see if you think there is any way you can qualify or how far off you are from qualifying.

Before spending any money on a lawyer, I would see if you can make an appointment or have a phone call with the local Medicaid office. I found the Social Security people very helpful when I had an appointment with them.

I just remembered my aunt had disability so the parameters were a little different than usual.

I think @janbb gave great advice. Social Security is usually very helpful.

@Dutchess_III Just keep in mind the look back.

@Dutchess_III In my state, the husband is responsible for the wife’s issues, so in NY, if you sold your house to your husband, it’s still considered as yours because you’re married. Every state is different. That’s why you need to pick the brain of someone in the know. Your DSS office can definitely help you, but they’re probably not going to be spending a lot of time figuring out your assets and your personal situation. They wouldn’t be looking at your bank accounts, the value of your house, your income information unless they actually had an application in front of them (your application). They just don’t have that kind of time. They can answer some general questions. Some may be more helpful than others. In the County I worked for, they were always busy and would definitely not be spending an hour answering your personal questions.

You could start by googling Kansas laws for Medicaid, Kansas income eligibility for Medicaid, stuff like that.

I did some googling for you.

https://ksassist.org/kansas-medicaid/who-qualifies#:~:text=In%20order%20to%20get%20Medicaid%2C%20you%20must%20be,first%208%20months%20of%20arriving%20to%20the%20US

@jca2 Good info!

@jca I’ll divorce him

@Dutchess_III I think you’ll find you needed to do that in 2015 !^^^^

I worked with a guy 25 years ago that owned his father’s home with his sister for over 10 years. The house and the lot next to it was worth almost a million dollars, on s hill overlooked the Long Island Sound in a tourist town. When his father moved to nursing home, there was no property in his name and hadn’t been for over seven years. State paid for him in new place.

See a lawyer.

Just sent it to Love_My_Doggie. She is an accountant and may know something.

Thanks Pengy

I haven’t read all the comments yet, and I don’t know what state you’re in, so I can only tell you how it works in Maryland. If it’s just you by yourself, and you are older and needing to go into long-term care, Medicaid will take your house and your savings although I think you do get to keep a small amount every month that comes in from your Social security and/ or pension.

If you’re married, and your spouse is still alive, then they cannot take the house and they have to leave one car for the spouse. But, and again this is in Maryland, you will have to spend half of your assets down. Those assets do not include the value of your house and car, however, but they can include things like life insurance policies. And then, they will look at how much money you have coming in. In my parents case, for example, when my dad went into long-term care in 2017, they had a good amount of savings and a life insurance policy that had matured. They had to total all that stuff up and then use half of that amount to pay for his care before Medicaid would kick in. Then they looked at how much my mom got in from both her and my dad’s Social Security, and his pension, and they pretty much covered his care every month except for a certain amount that my mom still had to pay. She had to have copies of all her bills and bank statements for the past 5 years before that to show what expenses she had every month. It was a lot of work and we helped her get everything together. Fortunately, she had been really organized all her life so she had all those things saved.

If you need Medicaid because you need to go into a nursing home that is not full Medicaid, but long term care Medicaid. The eligibility requirements are different. You’ll find your answers from your own state (website). I’ve had to work for people in several states and they are all similar but different. Good luck to you. Everything I’ve read on here is perhaps true “somewhere,” but perhaps not true for you in your state.

Also, be sure you know the difference in assisted living and nursing home(long term care). You doctor has to determine you need skilled nursing care but assisted living cann be an independent decision. The only state I know of that has assisted living benefits is Florida. There may be others.

Also, if it is decided you need long term care, nursing homes (that I have encountered) have good social workers that help with medicaid eligibility and getting a spend-down plan.

Try not to worry; you will find people to help you along the way. I have navigated these waters more than once.

@SnipSnip makes good point. And by the way in Maryland, we also have Medicaid that you can qualify for if your household is below a certain income level. And that pretty much pays for all your medical expenses, and I do mean all.

I’ll talk to a lawyer

My aunt was not put in long term care, she had someone come to the house every day for 6 hours (I think 6 hours) who cleaned, did laundry, shopped for her, took her to appointments, and prepared meals for her. A nurse visited every couple of weeks, and a physical therapist visited for a few weeks to help her walk again, and then that stopped.

I only mention it in case you might be interested in that option rather than leaving your home depending on how much care you need.

The availability of that option I’m sure varies by state.

Medicaid is administered on a state-by-state basis and has nothing to do with tax law. A tax person can’t help you.

Also, you don’t need to hire a lawyer. Just reseach the eligibility rules for Kansas: https://kancare.ks.gov/policies-and-reports/kdhe-eligibility-policy

@Love_my_doggie You don’t need an attorney to apply for Medicaid, but If you’re going to hide your assets legally, and not have the nursing home take it, you need an attorney. It’s called “protecting your assets.”

^^^ There’s a device called a qualified income trust, also known as a Miller Trust, to move resources beyond Medicaid’s reach. Such trusts are allowed under 25 states’ laws, and Kansas isn’t among them. That’s why I didn’t mention Miller Trusts to @Dutchess_III.

Kansas does allow Medicaid asset protection trusts, but MAPTs have brief lookback periods and can’t be used if immediately applying for Medicaid. @Dutchess_III says, “I need to qualify for Medicaid,” suggesting an immediate demand.

There are also pooled income trusts, but an individual must qualify as disabled. The person then needs to be willing to contribute resources to an exempt organization, which then manages and disburses the funds.

^^Seems like the OP might be able to qualify as disabled, but that takes time. I don’t know if that has to be done while someone is still working age and becomes unable to work?

Thank you for explaining the different trusts. I am going to PM you a question.

@Dutchess_III Did you talk to an attorney yet?

Beware some attorneys prey on older people for this sort of advice. Don’t pay some sort of huge fee. My mom got caught up in that for her sister and we intervened and had to threaten the lawyer for months to get her money back. We wound up doing the paperwork ourselves. My aunt wasn’t rich and needing big time ways to hide money. She was well within the state’s parameters to receive benefits.

An attorney should be able to give you a rough idea on the phone, and giving you some solid answers shouldn’t require more than a consultation fee, which would be a few hundred dollars (i.e.. an hour of their time) or it might be a free consultation. You would bring in some documents, like bank balances and stuff for them to see.

As for applying for Disability, that could take a year or two and from what I know, people usually are denied the first time and then they have to file an appeal.

@jca2 I’m in the middle of dealing with serious health issues. I see the doc on the 13 and I imagine he’ll put me in the hospital. As I settle in ill start sending emails.

@Dutchess_III Best wishes. I hope the you get all the help you need!

@Dutchess_III Beautiful V., I’m saddened by your news. I wish you a full and fast recovery.

Hugs @Dutchess_III
I hope your doctor finds ways to heal you.

A little more background information might be helpful.

Although Medicaid is administered on the state level, the program is joint federal-state public assistance. The authority is Title XIX of the Social Security Act. Specific rules vary considerably from state-to-state and are very complex, but there are uniform standards set under federal law. Among such standards, certain assets must be excluded from Medicaid eligibility (often called “noncountable” assets). Examples include:

- Principal residence, with an equity interest in 2023 of <$688K, if the Medicaid recipient, a spouse, or a minor or disabled child lives there. A state can set a higher limit, and many do so, but not a lower threshold.

- One vehicle per person.

- Household and personal possessions, including jewelry.

- Prepaid burial arrangements.

- Life insurance policies.

There’s a common misconception that people can’t qualify for Medicaid unless they sell their homes, cars, jewelry, and everything of value, spend all the money on their care, and are left fully destitute. That isn’t true. The law is harsh and restrictive, but it isn’t completely cruel.

If only there were a way to avoid all this convoluted mess. Oh! I know! Universal healthcare, just like nearly every developed country on earth, except the the U.S., has in place.

@Love_my_doggie… you can or can’t have life insurance policies?

@Love_my_doggie….I saw what you did there! Hugs!

BTW…Rick makes a terrible CNA. ;(

{{{{{H U G S}}}}}

@Dutchess_III ” you can or can’t have life insurance policies?”

You can have life insurance policies, because they’re not assets “counted” for Medicaid eligibility. Nobody needs to cash-out a life insurance policy to qualify for Medicaid coverage. Same thing for everything else on my earlier list, including prepaid funeral/burial plans; you don’t have to end up in a pauper’s grave.

Got it. Working on prepaid cremation expenses.

@Dutchess_III Sorry to hear you are in need of more care. I hope people local to you can help you figure out the system and what you need to file.

In my case my sister knew social workers at the hospital to help guide us. Maybe someone at the hospital can help in a similar way. They knew the forms we needed to fill out and basic guidelines.

@Dutchess_III I would check with your particular state on the life insurance policy thing. When my dad went into long-term care and my parents applied for Medicaid, they definitely had to count the money in the life insurance policies towards the assets they had to spend down.

I’ll talk to an attorney

@LifeQuestioner You’re right, but only with respect to a policy’s cash surrender value. The death benefit of a term or whole-life policy doesn’t count.

This is federal law, which states can’t preempt. Of course, a state can be more generous and not treat a cash surrender value as an asset, it just can’t be less generous. Like I said earlier, this is very complex stuff!

There are many ways to turn when looking for free legal aid, including the American Bar Association. I typed “what is free attorney service called” into a search engine and got many good results. A number of them are online, like AVVO.com.

I’m sorry for your troubles and suspect they’re very serious. We’re always here for you @Dutchess_III

What if I just spent.it?

I sent an email to.my attorney today.

@Dutchess_III If you spend down all your money and end up not getting Medicaid, you’ll be screwed.

How did it go with the doctor, Dutch?