Does the FD-1023 about Joe Biden taking a bribe change your views?

This is raw unverified information. The Trump administration spent four years trying to prove something and was unable to. Do you think a Trump appointed US Attorney would just let this go?

More grasping at mythical straws by anti-American Trump loyalists on a day when it looks like Trump will be indicted on RICO charges in Georgia.

Not really. At this point, I basically expect some level of corruption. I’ll withhold judgement on this specific claim until the FBI actually assesses it, but we all know that rich people are not accountable to the law in the same way as the rest of us are, and Presidents are literally unaccountable. Major reforms have been needed for a long time.

Isn’t this the document that the FBI and DoJ looked at a couple years ago and concluded there was nothing there to prosecute?

No.

What I’ve read, indicates that your characterization is based on GOP lies about it, such as:

* “After months of stonewalling”
* “a very reliable FBI confidential human source”

The FBI already looked at it, and Trump as POTUS used the FBI (and Ukraine), and Rudy Giuliani as his attorney, and the DOJ, and AG Bill Barr, to find anything to use as dirt on the Bidens, and none of them found any worthwhile evidence.

From an AP story linked below:

As White House spokesman Ian Sams said Thursday, “It is remarkable that congressional Republicans, in their eagerness to go after President Biden regardless of the truth, continue to push claims that have been debunked for years.”

“These claims have reportedly been scrutinized by the Trump Justice Department, a Trump-appointed U.S. Attorney, and a full impeachment trial of the former President that centered on these very issues, and over and over again, they have been found to lack credibility,” he said. “It’s clear that congressional Republicans are dead-set on playing shameless, dishonest politics and refuse to let truth get in the way.”

…

Rep. Jamie Raskin of Maryland, the top Democrat on the Oversight panel, said the document released by Republicans “records the unverified, secondhand, years-old allegations” that were already shown to be not true during the 2019 impeachment hearings.

After lawmakers reviewed a redacted document in June, Raskin had said “Congress thoroughly reviewed and debunked” similar allegations that Giuliani had made.

“As the FBI explained, the allegations were also thoroughly investigated by Donald Trump’s own Justice Department,” Raskin wrote. That assessment was closed in August 2020 after eight months of investigative efforts, he said, and “found insufficient evidence” to warrant further investigation.

https://apnews.com/article/hunter-biden-burisma-ukraine-congress-grassley-d373e943f3b9e860843626b4355e5321

An FD-1023 is simply a claim an unnamed source made. It is unsubstantiated. It’s just a report of shit someone said.

If anyone called an FBI office and said Fluther was creating a nuke to destroy Facebook, the FBI would create an FD-1023.
It’s just a claim someone made. It means nothing. It’s just documentation.

@Zaku My assessment of it is from reading the document. It is not a classified document, FBI director Wray and other in the leadership at the FBI have testified to this repeatedly under oath. As for months, I misspoke. Years. The report was filed on 6/30/2020. This was first brought to light when a whistleblower told Sen Grassley about it back in April of this year, I believe. It was requested at the very beginning of May 2023. Again, it is July. So we are at 2.5 months of stalling. Meanwhile, they did NOTHING about this other than hide it. They didn’t open an investigation into it at all. You refer to an investigation they said they did that ended about the same time this was coming out. So to claim it was reviewed and not found credible is false. The FBI confirmed this CHS is one they use frequently and has always been highly reliable.

What Raskin and others are trying to do is say that new evidence can be ignored because other claims were debunked…claims that didn’t have this evidence.

Another thing that happened is that when Grassley first asked for this FD-1023 form, the FBI initially said they didn’t have any such form. When he told them he had already seen it, they suddenly said they had it but they wouldn’t give it to him.

@elbanditoroso I’m not sure how you could look at this and say there is nothing to investigate. It spells out a pay to play scandal as well as bribery. Part of the problem is that all this became a big deal not because of Biden, but because of the FBI and the DOJ being weaponized. If they looked at this and said they weren’t going to investigate it after falsifying documentation to try framing Trump, they are adding fuel to the claim they are corrupt.

@filmfann You are not entirely correct. An FD-1023 form is used by agents to document the raw data provided by Confidential Human Sources working for the FBI to document. It isn’t just some schmoe off the street calling them up with a tip. It is someone they actually pay to gather information for them. The data is not always accurate nor is it always factual. But it can be used to start an investigation. You would have to investigate before you could say it isn’t reliable or factual. And in this case, the CHS that provided the data has a very good, reliable track record with the FBI…according to the FBI.

“After months of stonewalling, the FBI finally produced the unclassified document, FD-1023”

If there really was stonewalling, that seems like it’s more an FBI problem than a Biden problem.

“in which a very reliable FBI confidential human source reports a lot of issues with the Bidens.”

In which a CHS who has been found reliable in the past gave new information that a two-month investigation could not verify.

“Specifically it shows Burisma hired Hunter specifically for the access it gave to Joe”

For the access they thought would give them access to Joe, and access is not the same as influence.

“and that Joe pushed to have him hired.”

All the document says is that Joe supported the hiring. It doesn’t say he pushed for it.

“It points to 2 Bidens that got $5M each to make the investigation that Shokin, the Ukrainian State Attorney, was doing.”

It looks like you’re missing some words here. Did you mean “to make the investigation go away”? Assuming you did, the document doesn’t actually say what the payments would have been for, and in fact doesn’t even confirm they were made. The CHS even says he advised against them.

“The timeline dove-tails nicely to the time frame in which Joe Biden bragged about threatening to withhold $1B in aid to Ukraine unless they fired him within 6 hours.”

Whatever one thinks of the Bidens and Burisma, Shokin is a corrupt bastard who needed to be removed. If Biden forced him out for the wrong reasons, that’s bad. But the fact that he got rid of him (and bragged about it) are not bad on their own. So unless it can be shown that Biden removed him for corrupt reasons, the Shokin removal doesn’t move me at all.

“This shows a criminal network being run with the Bidens as big beneficiaries.”

Nothing in the document even remotely points to a criminal network. It suggests that there may have possibly been bribes. But “criminal network” implies a level of complexity and continuity that the document doesn’t itself allege.

“Does this make you consider that this is no longer just a witch hunt and that Joe Biden needs to be possibly impeached?”

Why would we jump straight to the idea that he should be impeached as opposed to letting the investigations continue? This is one document, not a full case.

“Or that Hunter Biden needs to be arrested for a variety of charges?”

Again, pending an actual criminal investigation. But as @Zaku told us, the FBI investigated this for eight months—including two months after this document was filed—and decided there was nothing there. I have no problem with people looking into it again, but I’m against jumping to conclusions just as I was during the Trump years.

It doesn’t change my views about Trump in the slightest. I’m glad he is finally facing the music and I wish people would stop making excuses for him.

Have you noticed that any and all evidence about Trump is just fake news, but any news about Biden no matter how insignificant is stone cold fact?

Wasn’t it your fearless leader who said Wray was an idiot??? I haven’t seen it yet & I’m sorry, your word is almost as reliable as 45 saying he made the most perfect call…NOT!!!

@seawulf575 that isn’t what I wrote. You are putting (erroneous) words in my mouth.

I wrote that the FBI and DOJ had this form for years, and decided there was nothing there worth investigating or indicting.

The fact that it was released by a senator today doesn’t negate that fact – that the FBI evaluated this is nothing.

Me thinks you are trying too hard.

Grasping at straws, much to do about NOTHING !

Do we know anyone that was impeached twice and indited three times; maybe soon four times like by Monday the 24th ?

Biden was not indicted or impeached !

All of @seawulf575’s roads lead back, one way or another, to Hunter Biden. One can only speculate about this fascination with the President’s son……

^^^^ I Miss spoke indicted twice, impeached twice and found President Trump liable for sexually abusing columnist E. Jean Carroll in the mid-90s and later defaming her.

@seawulf575 please fact check your own post please.
Your OP states ” a very reliable FBI confidential human source”
The FACT is that it is an “unverified claim”

No it doesn’t change my mind that you will do anything and everything to slant the story and post slanderous views about Biden or his son.

@Tropical_Willie Don’t forget the call girl he paid off 120,000 to keep her mouth shut. He’s such a pillar of the community. ~

@Tropical_Willie
You can officially call him a rapist.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-trial-columnist-carroll-4974ef026f3da61bc6f1b7ddda3ad10e

Remember earlier this week I was criticized for accusing someone of having an agenda – looks like I was correct after all.

For some reason, the republican party has an aural fixation of Hunter Biden. I don’t get why they see him as the answer to all their prayers. But they do – how many times have you heard his name since Joe was elected?

My guess is that the republicans know that Joe Biden is unassailable and unbeatable, so they go for the lowest possible stupid ideas and figure that they can smear Biden in some way. Except they’re really bad at it.

@Forever_Free Unverified and very reliable are not exclusive. In fact, they are complimentary. Everything he has ever given the FBI has been unverified initially. The FBI takes his information and looks into it and has a very good track record with this person of verifying his information.

So we have pretty much a unanimous vote from all the lefties on this site. They don’t want to consider this. They want to invalidate the information, they don’t want to consider it, they want to tell all about how they hate Trump and they want to stand by Biden no matter what. So what would it actually take for you to believe Biden is corrupt? If they cough up bank records, would that do it? They already have whistleblowers, CHS reports, Biden admitting to coercing Ukraine to get rid of their AG, Hunter’s laptop that spells out how he ran his business, they have his business partner confirming what is being suspected, they have a Whatsapp message from Hunter that confirms he and Joe are working with China. Oh! and they have bank records that show highly suspicious behavior by the Biden family.

So what exactly would it take for you to believe he is corrupt?

All politicians are corrupt. Some are just more corrupt than others. Lock all of them up.

@ragingloli To Trump, he refers to himself as a therapist, not the rapist. It’s his little play with the spelling.

When you ask people for their opinions, they are perfectly entitled to say they don’t care. That’s an opinion. When you ask people for their opinions, and they say they don’t care, and you jump up and down and say they need to care, they’re awful people for not caring, that’s asking with an agenda.

@seawulf575 As I already wrote, I believe you have been misled, if you think this is something new or credible. All I have seen indicates this was already investigated both by competent organizations (FBI, DOJ) under a Trump presidency, and by corrupt lying partisan bastards desperate to find dirt (e.g. Giuliani), and none of them found anything worth consideration. The GOP is clearly attempting to create baseless noise to try to create a false narrative that they and Trump are innocent, and Biden is wicked and persecuting them (when he’s not been directing any action against Trump – that’s been done by law enforcement and district attorneys, because Trump did all kinds of criminal shit). This seems to be a transparent attempt to distract from lies and crimes of the GOP and Trump, and to instead get people like you to think there’s evidence instead against Biden. If there were, the FBI & DOJ would be doing their jobs to bring cases against Biden (and they would’ve done so when the POTUS was asking them to, back before 2020).

@jca2 HA! Good one!

@jca2 I have been asked my opinion about all the “crimes” of Trump over the years. I have given my opinions and have been piled on and even in this thread have been accused of having Trump as my “fearless leader”. I have been scorned for not being able to accept facts of his wrongdoing. In many cases, they turned out to not be facts at all, but lies. Yet no one ever really acknowledges that either.

I think I’ll cut your response to be tossed back at you later.

But that doesn’t really ask what it would take for you to actually admit Biden did something wrong.

@seawulf575 Serious question: do you enjoy this? Again, serious question.

I think that reason people don’t admit to Biden (Hunter) having done things wrong is that he didn’t do anything wrong, as disappointing as it may be to the right wing.

@Hawaii_Jake Enjoy is probably not the right word. Fascinated maybe…morbidly fascinated. I have this weird curiosity about how the left-wing mind thinks. I can’t get through the mental gymnastics it takes to push the narrative the way you all seem to do.

If this FD-1023 came up and the name being discussed was Trump, you would all be screaming about how they finally got him. You know you would. You have all crowed about a whole lot less than this in the way of “evidence”. When it involves a Democrat, it’s like you have to twist yourself into a pretzel to ignore it or try to cover for it. I can’t figure it out but I believe it is something I need to figure out.

And that is a serious answer.

@seawulf575 When I ask a question on this site, looking for opinions, I take great pains not to say my opinion until a bunch of people have responded, and I take great pains not to put which way I’m leaning in the details of the question. I also take great pains not to argue with people when I ask for opinions and their thoughts are different from my own, otherwise, what am I asking for? “Only opinions that agree with mine may answer?”

Yes, people on this site will debate and argue with each other all the time, but when asking a question specifically looking for opinions, it makes no sense to argue with people. If you ask me what’s my opinion of olives, and I say I hate them, does it make sense to say I really need to like them?

” I can’t get through the mental gymnastics it takes to push the narrative the way you all seem to do.”
– We have, and believe, different sources of information, than you do.

“If this FD-1023 came up and the name being discussed was Trump, you would all be screaming about how they finally got him. You know you would.”
– Not if we had the same information about it, that I have repeatedly mentioned to you above. We would be thinking it was disappointing and disgraceful that politicians were pretending an abandoned report was being transparently foisted off as if it were new significant evidence, when it is not.

IF and WHEN the DOJ or FBI get some incriminating evidence about Biden, and looks credible, and especially when he starts getting brought up on charges, I’ll take it seriously, and be glad the DOJ and FBI are doing their job even against a POTUS. But that’s not even close to happening . . . oh, except that it is, to Trump, because that evidence does exist for Trump.

Well I’m sure @seawulf575 will pooh-pooh this as he does everything that doesn’t agree with his point of view, and he will likely call the site biased because, of course, everything is biased!, but Snopes says:

False. Nothing that has not been previously reported is contained within the newly released FD-1023 form detailing communications between an FBI informant and the founder and owner of Burisma. The allegations, at this time, remain second-hand hearsay.

Naw – He just enjoys shooting us all down. He has enough evidence now that we’re all misguided lefties but he keeps battering away for some reason. What I find fairly ironic is that someone like tom_g keeps on quitting us after bashing us from ”The Left.”

@janbb We’re communists, we’re clueless, we’re idiots, we’re fools, we’re blind, we’re soft on crime, we’re too tolerant of wrong doing, we need to care but we don’t, don’tcha know?

@jca2 So why do stable geniuses hang out here, one wonders?

@janbb One has to think that they either have not much else going on in their lives or for some sick, deranged reason they just like to argue for the sake of arguing.

Rudy kept Hunter’s laptop for months & I’ve still NOT seen it. How do I know what I “might” see is real or Rudy propaganda??? It has been proven over & over & over again that the right WILL CHEAT in order to get their own way!!!

I’d prefer to NOT vote for Biden, but he’s the ONLY one NOT threatening to overthrow our government & take away ALL the rights that I’ve worked ALL my life to achieve!!! WHY would I vote for a man threatening to make me starve for the balance of my life???

I think that I don’t care about anything the Republicans claim because over and over they claim Democrats do one thing and then they get caught doing exactly that and have no proof to back their claims.
Like MTG for some reason showing photos of (porn) in Congress of Hunter Biden. To show what exactly. That another white man likes sex and may hire prostitutes. It seems she must believe he’s actually the President. He’s a private citizen. Somehow this outrages her and she feels should be investigated. Meanwhile, she fully supports a former president who screwed around with a porn star while he was with his current wife and she was pregnant and even got charged for rape and is trying to run for President again.

So, no I don’t care. And I will vote for Biden again. I’ll be sure not to vote for Hunter but then he’s not running for office.
No need to reply to my answer because there isn’t a single thing you can say that will change my mind. I’ve already read all your other comments and I’m in aggreement with everyone else here.

@seawulf575 We don’t have “left wing minds”, whatever they are, we just have minds.

“So we have pretty much a unanimous vote from all the lefties on this site.”

I don’t think all the lefties on this site have chimed in, and not everyone who has chimed in is a lefty.

“They don’t want to consider this.”

That does not seem to be the consensus. Ignoring the people who deflected by talking about Trump, what most people have said is that they want to wait for more and better information to come out than a document containing the testimony of a single person, even if that person has been reliable in the past.

“So what would it actually take for you to believe Biden is corrupt?”

As I said earlier, a full case. There’s less evidence here than there was in the Muller report, which Nancy Pelosi herself determined was not enough to warrant impeachment proceedings.

“Biden admitting to coercing Ukraine to get rid of their AG”

Again, this isn’t the evidence you think it is. Shokin was terribly corrupt, and his removal was not just some pet project of Joe Biden. The UK government wanted him removed, as did the rest of the European Union, the World Bank, and the IMF. And one of their big complaints was that he was too lenient on corruption in Ukraine. In fact, he was the one standing in the way of both foreign authorities and his own prosecutors whenever they tried looking into Burisma or its owner, Mykola Zlochevskiy. The first warning from the US to Ukraine was even in response to Ukraine failing to assist the UK in its attempts to investigate Zlochevskiy after the UK seized his assets. And according to Vitaliy Kasko, who resigned as Shokin’s deputy in protest of what he characterized as Shokin’s corruption and total lawlessness, the Burisma case had been shelved before Biden ever demanded Shokin’s removal. He even provided documents to Bloomberg News supporting his assertion.

If Biden had him pushed out for the wrong reasons, then I hope we find proof of that. But until then, the fact that he got Shokin removed is a plus in my book.

“So what exactly would it take for you to believe he is corrupt?”

Asking if Biden, a politician, is corrupt is not the same as asking about what this particular document shows. Like @Smashley and @chyna, I assume all politicians are corrupt. But you asked a question about a specific claim based on a particular document.

“I can’t get through the mental gymnastics it takes to push the narrative the way you all seem to do.”

You do realize that’s how they feel about you, though, right? And you might think, “yeah, but I’m right!” But again, they also think that they are right. What seems obvious to any individual is based on what they already know and what they already believe. Human beings, by their very nature, have lower standards for evidence that confirms their beliefs and higher standards for evidence that contradicts their beliefs. It’s called confirmation bias, and it’s not a left or right thing. It’s a human thing that affects you, me, and everyone else.