Is this any way to run an airline(s)?

What do they claim is reason for such delay?

@SnipSnip Sometimes it’s bad weather but often it’s maintenance problems on the planes. My nephew’s flight to Canada was canceled on Saturday because bad weather caused delays and then the crew had to go off-duty and there was no back up staffing! I’ve been on planes that are fully loaded and then they discover a slight technical problem. Shouldn’t they do maintenance checks in between flights??

Well, then there are the tiny ass seats that are completely intolerable. If you can drive, drive. IMO air travel is just unsustainable.

One of the many reasons why our multi-layered society is unsustainable.

We had a good run, but all that ignoring things for decades comes at a price.

Last weekend United had the excuse that they were updating their computers. NOT an excuse!
It worries me because I don’t travel that often and the last time I was supposed to fly, 2 years ago, I had a panic attack that I thought was a heart attack. I’m scheduled to fly on 9/23. I hope it goes well.

@chyna I’m flying on United on 10/4 and I’m stressed even thinking about being stuck on a plane. I don’t mind the flying itself, but I really mind the close proximity of people. I have a large personal bubble. I’ll be sure to have a couple of valium handy.

Best of luck to you!

Any trip that involves flying now just adds an extra layer of pain in the assery. We just went to Alaska this summer, and I was dreading the flying part. All of my trips for the past few years have been driving trips, which I planned specifically to avoid flying. For the Alaska trip, it was with a tour and there’s really no practical way to get from NY to Alaska by car, so we had to bite the bullet and fly. The flights were actually not too terrible, but we missed the flight out of JFK (JFK to Seattle to Alaska) because of the TSA. TSA at JFK just does not. give. a. fuck. Not one fuck do they have to give. We were 2½ hours early for the flight, so you’d think 2½ hours is enough to go through TSA and get on the plane but no, missed the flight, which meant everything had to be reascheduled. What a hassle. I never want to go to JFK ever again.

@chyna In response specifically to your question, the airlines have us by the short hairs and they know it. They can do whatever they want. Like they care if I get pissed off at one airline and switch my business to another one.

Seven hours is ridiculous and unacceptable. The longest I have waited on the plane with everyone belted and ready to go was about an hour, we were waiting for a FL storm to ease up so we could take off safely.

One time in Dallas a tornado watch or warning (I don’t remember which) was issued, and we all deplaned back into the gate building to wait it out. That is the only time I remember deplaning to wait.

Neither situation bothered me, but if it had gone on for over two hours I would have been pissed.

I just had to cancel a flight, because the airline changed my flight drastically. I still need to rebook, ugh, I need to do that tomorrow. I will have to pay more and connect instead of non-stop. Is it any way to run an airline? The airline biz is a tough biz. A few bad days and it severely effects the bottom line and customer satisfaction.

Flights have been flying FULL, and when a snafu happens like weather, illness, or a mechanical difficulty, it is difficult to sort it all.

I’m in a Disney group and there are multiple who at the last minute have a flight problems and drive, or are nervous about a flight being delayed and decide to drive in the first place or a few people take the autotrain. I don’t see how driving two days is better than a flight delay, but they feel they have more control driving and maybe the cost is better too, that I don’t know. I do think the airlines are losing some business with the delays and flight changes.

Why are airlines having trouble hiring people? Is that true? I would think people still like the perks that come with working for the airlines. If they can get on a plane stand by to fly for free.

Canada is implementing a passenger bill of rights.
Maybe the US can develop one too?

@RedDeerGuy1 I believe the USA has one already. I thought they were not allowed to keep you on the tarmac more than three hours.

I think one of the problems is that airlines have a monopoly on many routes so there is not competition or choice.

@JLeslie I’ve read that older pilots are retiring and not enough new ones are coming in.

@janbb I vaguely remember hearing that now that you mention it.

I wonder if fewer people are going into the air force to become pilots? Most pilots I know who are my age or older got their wings in the military.

There’s a mandatory retirement age (60 maybe?) for pilots and so they have no choice but to retire. I believe there’s a movement trying to get it raised five years so that the seasoned pilots who are still able to work can stay on and reduce the shortage.

I wonder how it is being a pilot for a commercial airline, like Delta, compared to being a pilot for a non-passenger airline, like FedEx, vs. being a pilot for a small line, like one that a rich person would hire.

More people fly nowadays. More freaky weather is occurring.
This is the new norm.

@jca2 I know a lot of pilots for FedEx and they all seem to like their jobs. I never hear them complain. I don’t know if any of them worked for passenger airlines before their fedex jobs. All but one was in the airforce.

The little private planes don’t pay very high salaries I don’t think. Actually, I think the smaller jets that are like sister airlines for the big commercial airlines don’t pay pilots a lot of money either from what I understand.

I wonder if the starting salaries and routes are partly why people aren’t going into the field? I need to look them up. Still a lot of perks being a pilot. Every pilot I know loves to fly. They didn’t become pilots as some sort of calculation regarding career, like when someone takes some sort of tech course to make a decent wage.

@JLeslie When we were in Alaska, we took a little 10 seater plane to the top of a glacier and the pilot was going for his graduate degree in aerospace engineering. I was thinking what a great job, to be a pilot for the little tourist airline in the summer, and people gave him tips – most people, at least, except the cheap ones or the clueless ones.

@jca2 It’s a great job, because he probably loves every time he takes off! Probably makes more than many other internships. Everything is relative.

I found this for hourly pay for pilots. https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/articles/job-search-articles/airline-pilot-salaries-which-airlines-have-the-highest-pay.html

This summarizes annual pay. https://www.indeed.com/career/pilot/salaries?&aceid=&kw=adwords_m_9099621460_15516767951_0_0_pmax&sid=us_googmobconthajpmax-_c__g_9012396_gclid$_CjwKCAjwu4WoBhBkEiwAojNdXnSwBo4vch5J8z-bv16pzrVZg8WQsLFRnpm7WBAYNW9Fv_UAbKmshBoCtygQAvD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAADfh6_uBoRdls9gyAX4Yo9ay_gG_W&gclid=CjwKCAjwu4WoBhBkEiwAojNdXnSwBo4vch5J8z-bv16pzrVZg8WQsLFRnpm7WBAYNW9Fv_UAbKmshBoCtygQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

@JLeslie I don’t think it’s an internship, I think it’s a job.

@jca2 I didn’t think it was an internship, I just meant he’s in school for a related field and other professions have internships and get paid very little.

@JLeslie Those sites don’t seem to differentiate the pay between Captain and First Officer (FO)

I have a good friend who is a Captain for United. When he moved from FO to Captain, his salary nearly doubled. His son is moving his way up. It is all about hours. His son graduated college about 4 years ago. He was flying a regional and just moved up to a Major (Spirit) as an FO. He is far from the salary listed on the site because he just moved up. He knows the challenges and responsibilities. It is not an easy life for a pilot or their family.

As far as Internships go in other fields there really is no money to speak of. It allows you to spend real time in your prospective field while still in college. Companies love it because they get workers for next to nothing. The plus for the Intern is they get to prove themselves and if done well can almost gaurantee a job when they graduate.

Service in all industries seems to be slacking these days. We notice it more with airlines because we are impacted directly and in a very significant way.

The 7 hour delay your friend experienced: were they at a foreign airport or was it in the US? In the US, the DOT has guidelines that lay out what has to happen if the flights are delayed and passengers are stuck on the plane for an extended period of time. If this was a domestic flight and they were legitimately stuck for 7 hours (not 1 hour that seemed like 7) then the airline is required to keep a comfortable cabin temperature, they are required to serve snacks and water unless the pilot deems it unsafe to do so (example: the plane is getting ready to take off), and the passengers have the right to request the ability to deplane after 3 hours (4 for international flights). It should be noted that if you request to deplane you are giving up your right to get back onto that flight.

@seawulf575 All of that is known but they did not follow any of the protocols and the air conditioning was not working. It was an international flight by United from a US airport. Suits have been filed. But as I mentioned, that is not the only egregious problem with airlines these days.

I have fond memories of when I was little, and we’d fly, they’d serve a hot meal on china plates with regular silverware. This was as late as when I was 30 (so the mid 90’s), they’d serve the hot meal with china and regular utensils. Then it degraded to where you could order something on the plane, like a sandwich, then it became 20 years ago where you’d get a bag of chips or peanuts, but it was a regular snack size bag of chips. The last time I was on a plane, this summer, you get a tiny bag of chips (like 4 inches by 4 inches) or two cookies (biscoff, two pack), and a cup of soda. If you’re lucky, the airline staff will give you the entire can of soda, if you’re not lucky she pours it into a cup so you get about 8 ounces. It’s really ridiculous.

@jca2 I remember flying in the 70’s and 80’s with my mom and smoking was allowed. Amazing to think nowadays.

I remember flying non-stop with my Dad from NY to Calif when I was 12. It was so exciting and they showed a full-length movie that was popular at the time, something along the lines of Parent Trap with Haley Mills.

@jca2 I think business class and first class are still like that on the major airlines. Especially international flights.

My first time flying was coach class on TWA either 1979 or 1980, and I remember some sort of steak meal on ceramic plates. We flew from DC to FL. Think about the flight attendants dealing with heating up the food and dealing with the dishes. I don’t know how they did it on short flights.

@JLeslie I’m not saying I want that now, I’m just saying do a little better than two cookies and a cup of soda.

@jca2 It would be nice. Airfares are so expensive now.

Although, for me, I usually keep my mask on the whole time when I fly. Maybe in first class I would feel more relaxed about it if no strangers were right next to me.

Meanwhile, I’ve found that train service has become better and more reliable. My husband and I have made a significant number of train trips in recent years; each one left promptly and arrived on time.

@Love_my_doggie I love Amtrak. I take it frequently to DC or Philadelphia. Always feels like a more human scale. But it doesn’t help me get to California or France.

I just looked up getting on a train from WV to Tulsa, OK. 36 hours! Yikes!

Last year, we drove from NY to SD to WY to MT and then back to NY. We spent a few nights in SD, a few nights in WY and a few nights in MT. I really like a road trip for a bunch of reasons (leave when you want, throw your crap in the car like a closet, stop when you want, etc.). I really like seeing how the landscape and culture changes when you drive through Illinois and then the midwest, and how it changes from SD to WY. Such a beautiful ride, going through the mountains of WY and MT. I would do it again in a heartbeat. It was a lot of driving but it was great. I rented a car through Costco Travel so I saved wear and tear on my car.

If I only had a nickel for every airplane delay or airline fubar I have experienced I would be a nickelaire.

@janbb But it doesn’t help me get to California or France.

California, maybe, but, no, not France!