What do you think about the dress code being relaxed on the Senate floor in the US?

I don’t care about it.

Don’t mean to derail, but along the same lines, I swear if they instituted uniforms in prisons they’d have less trouble, like in other countries. How you act is, in part, based on how you dress. How you dress normally affects your deportment.

They should wear suits. I didn’t read the entire article, but I still say how you dress affects how you behave and can make it difficult to take someone seriously.

I don’t care about it but I suspect there are some that will still dress the same, and some that will do casual. Maybe some will do “business casual.”

In 1931, Mahatma Gandhi went to London. Before visiting Parliament, he considered dressing in a suit, rather than the Khadi garb. He did not want to offend those in Parliament, but he wanted to present himself as he lived.
Gandhi was an amazing thinker. I will differ to him here.

There should be some minimum standard that is at least recommended but not required. Neckties should not be included.

I think a minimum probably makes sense when speaking on the floor, but at the same time you would hope it wouldn’t matter. If a senator shows up in ripped jeans or shorts, flip flops, and a tank top is it ok? As far as being in attendance I wouldn’t care what the representatives wore.

Look at how people pass around Walmart shopper photos, people do judge. I hate those photos, I think it’s mean.

Psychologists and other medical professionals even use how you dress as a barometer of mental health. That annoys me too

Places I have worked had minimum standards because some people just didn’t have reasonable judgement, and we interacted with the public.

Someone from another country is completely different. I would never expect them to conform.

@smudges Don’t prisons have uniforms? You don’t get to wear your street clothes I don’t think.

On the news, they said this is going to allow PA Senator Fetterman to wear his signature big hoodies, big baggy shorts, and sneakers on the Senate floor. I think he looks ridiculous. Supposedly his hoodies are something to do with his physical or mental health challenges but he does wear suits on occasion.

@jca2 I think in many circumstances psychologists would see it as a symptom of depression. It’s not easy to pull yourself together when you are depressed. I’m not saying all people who wear shorts are depressed, I’m in yoga pants and t-shirts most days, but I know that feeling of not wanting to get “dressed for work” or dressed for anything.

Lauren Boebert will also ask to allow vaping in chambers as well.

^Yeah, and I don’t want to see her boobies hanging out like she displayed them at Beetle Juice. A time and a place for everything, but some people will be obnoxious with it.

If you want to to be taken seriously then dress seriously.

I think women get judged more harshly when they dress casually. If a man wears khakis, a polo shirt, and loafers, he’ll still get respect. A woman in the same outfit I’m not so sure.

If citizens have trusted these people enough to elect them to high office, I think they should be be allowed to choose what they wear. Most (certainly not all, I get that) probably understand that credibility is often tied to appearance.

Are we going to monitor what they have for lunch?

@canidmajor Some people seem to monitor the food politicians eat. I’ve always hated that. I don’t care if Trump eats a hamburger and fries or when Obama or Clinton did it for that matter.

@JLeslie I think accepting responsibility for one’s own actions is paramount. Dress outside the accepted norm? Understand that there might be backlash. Fetter man has discussed his personal style publicly and extensively, yet from what I’ve read and heard he works hard for his constituents, so the idea that the “unofficial dress code” is being relaxed to “appease” him seems silly silly and middle-school-esque to me. Most of us haven’t policed our children’s dress since they were pre-teens.

@canidmajor I read that in recent years the expectation has been more and more relaxed. The word expectation seems more appropriate, because code sounds more rigid to me.

The articles I read mentioned female politicians wearing sleeveless tops, open toed shoes, and I assume women aren’t always wearing pantyhose anymore. The article actually pointed to Marjorie Taylor Green regarding the sleeveless tops.

I take from what you wrote that it’s just more political game play, and nothing significant has changed.

Dress for success. It matters.

@JLeslie, Since this is your thread and you asked me a question, I’ll go ahead and answer it here.

Yes, prisoners wear “uniforms”, and it’s much stricter in jails. I was speaking of actual prisons. They can wear their t-shirts around their heads and tie them; the front of the uniform doesn’t have to be buttoned and can even be worn off the shoulders (basically around the waist for jumpsuits); there are some places that still allow street clothes, and some that allow street clothes for those on the honor system (Richard Matt and David Sweat wore street clothes and the honor block has since been shut down in that prison).

Institutional styles have inspired many street styles – low rider pants came into vogue from prisons where they weren’t allowed belts. There are certain things you can wear, or wear them a certain way that signifies which gang you’re a member of. It’s an all-round “fuck you” to the guards and system. Clothing is symbolic, it shows the world an entire attitude. The vast majority if us know what’s appropriate and not, but there are many who don’t give a shit about anything and it shows in their dress.

It’s not so much the uniform, it’s how they’re allowed to wear them. Look at Russian prisons, for example – every button must be closed, shoes shined, collar up and folded, and woe be to those who slouch in posture or get a step out of line.

Psychologists and other medical professionals even use how you dress as a barometer of mental health.

It may be annoying and you may think they’re being judged harshly, but hygiene is usually the first thing that goes when a person has a serious mental illness. The medical/ psychology community is simply questioning the same kinds of things your doctor would ask you about if they saw bruises around your throat or if your demeanor was excessively fearful.

I didn’t mean to go off on a spiral, but I strongly feel that appearance matters and often dictates how you will act. (I also feel there would be better grades and fewer fights and problems in schools if kids were required to wear uniforms, at least until high school. There’s plenty of time to display your individuality and love of expensive clothes/shoes outside of school hours) I would have edited this for length if I weren’t almost out the door.

@chyna Colorado must be so proud of her service.

Republicans must have something to complain about. This is just another made-up issue.

I remember back when I was a sergeant in the Army in charge of ordering medical equipment and supplies. Sometimes there were problems with funding and I had to go justify purchases through the building comptroller. I learned quickly to show up in class B uniform with a tie to get the best results quickly. If I presented in a battle dress uniform then they’d make me wait.

@gondwanalon Which just goes to show that you understood how to dress yourself for the outcome you wanted.

I remember the study of people crossing against the light on a busy street corner. They put in a plant to look like a homeless guy who crossed against the light. Nobody followed him. Later, they took the same guy, put him in a suit and tie, and had him cross against the light as well. A lot of people followed his lead.

We have subconscious biases about some things. When you see someone dressed in shabby clothes, we automatically assume any number of things about them that are likely negative. They look like slobs, they have no pride in themselves, they are poor…all sorts of things.

Being a Senator and/or Congressman is supposed to be a prestigious position. They should dress to represent that assumption. To relax the dress code so one person can dress like he’s wearing the same clothes he wore to the gym is an affront. And I believe it sends all sorts of negative messages to the world. They see that there is no discipline in the leadership of the country, there is no pride, the leaders of our leaders have no control and the inmates are running the asylum.

@seawulf575 “They see that there is no discipline in the leadership of the country, there is no pride, the leaders of our leaders have no control and the inmates are running the asylum.”..

I hope you can see the irony of your last statement when it is the so-called “Freedom Caucus” in the House that is holding up any productive legislation in Congress and lowering the regard for the US all over the world – not to mention the Stock Market.

I think they should wear Cosplay-style costumes that best represent their personalities.

@seawulf575 You don’t think that the people you elect can dress themselves? Yikes, who the hell are you voting for?

Rhetorical, no need for a response.

@janbb No, I don’t see the irony. The Freedom caucus is doing what they are supposed to do…vote for what they want. They see the runaway spending to be a threat to this nation that cannot go on as it has. They see the open border policies of the Dems to be a threat to this nation that cannot go on as it has. I might suggest that the “status quo” with no challenge sends the message that the government has no wits at all, or that we really are a banana republic.

@canidmajor Yes, no need for a response, but you know I can’t pass it up! I might ask you who the hell you are voting for when you are supporting this idiocy. AND you are missing the key point of the question. There was a dress code for the Senate up until this week. Did we have an election this week? Nope. I have worked many jobs that had dress codes and you could be penalized for not meeting them. Hell, even Wendy’s has a dress code (or used to). They don’t allow the front counter people to have tons of piercings and tattoos (at least that’s how it used to be). I would expect at least that level of competence from the people I vote for. How about you?

Again, it comes down to: what persona do you want to project to your customers?

Yeah – let’s ask Lauren Boebert that!

@janbb Doesn’t she already have her hands full?

@janbb So you agree with me and you want to apply the standard to all? I’m good with that. My suspicions are that you are just deflecting, though.

This article does a great job of expanding on and explaining my feelings about the OP.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/20/opinions/senate-dress-code-sweatpants-john-fetterman-ted-cruz-sheppard/?dicbo=v2-a7afuM9&hpt=ob_blogfooterold

@janbb Good article.

@janbb That article doesn’t really address the issue though. Throughout history, it is true, the dress code has changed…and hasn’t. Things have been added or subtracted as the societal styles change. The article doesn’t really make this clear. It is showing “There was a change!!!” like gotchas. The article also chose to pick one-offs like Ted Cruz showing up on a Saturday for a vote on basically nothing wearing work-out clothes. It also got into a style discussion trying to pick on Kristin Sinema for her choice of color.

But all this kinda misses the point. All of the examples used were still people that typically adhered to the dress code….because there was a dress code. Schumer just did away with that so that one Senator could wear shorts, flip flops and a hoodie every day. What next? Are we going to see Mitch McConnell in beige Speedos?

@seawulf575 I guess you need to assume that most senators will use good judgment. They aren’t ten year olds. Most of them are educated and have experience in a multitude of situations that expect a certain attire, everything from court, church, weddings, they know the expectation. My husband once said having to put on a suit for church would be enough not to go.

Expectations for women cost us a lot of money. When I worked for Macy’s and Bloomingdale’s in the 80’s and 90’s. it used to be if you wore a skirt we had to wear pantyhose. That’s another $10 every time the hose got a run, which of course happened quite a bit, while men buy a pair of socks and they last for years. Men had to wear suits or a sportscoat so work places were kept FREEZING, remember woman often had uncovered legs because in many places of work we had to be in a skirt. I was allowed to wear slacks as long as we also had on a blazer with it, or full suit. Finally, Bloomingdale’s went to wearing black, no jacket required. Dress codes often force people to spend money. Once in a while uniforms wind helping to save money, if the uniform is reasonable. Maybe the senate should have a uniform.

Talking about freezing, back in the day it was not unusual for girls to be required to wear skirts to school and work, and they were walking in the snow. It’s stupid.

Ted Cruz popped in for a vote, I am ok with that, but realize with strict dress codes you can’t do that, you get stopped at the door. My employees were sent home if they were not adhering to dress code, they lost a day’s pay unless they lived close enough to travel home change and come back. My friend’s son was hassled in private school because his hair was a couple of inches too long, She eventually took him out of that school. It wasn’t extreme, we would still say his hair was “short” but the rules were super strict.

If you don’t like what your senator wears, don’t vote for him or her.

@JLeslie I think the difference is that I would expect ALL senators to use good judgment. That ALL mostly do…except Fetterman who wishes to dress like a 10 year old. And a sloppy one at that. If he did it once and that was it, this wouldn’t even be a discussion. The dress code was never a strict thing…it was an expectation. But seriously, what message is being sent?

All senators use good judgment except Fetterman. LMAO.

Like voting to overturn the results of the presidential election? Some of our senators are a waste and destructive to our nation. Way worse than wearing shorts. Do you think a state should be able to say who won in their state or not?

@JLeslie Stop deflecting. We are talking about dress code, not political views.

She answered the Q, @seawulf575, with a little add-on. It’s in Social. Surprised that the king of what-aboutism and the major deflector himself is so keen on policing everybody else.
<eyeroll>

@seawulf575 I wasn’t looking for you to answer that question, it was just an example. Just saying putting so much emphasis on what people wear or how they look seems like a big stupid distraction. Just like Democrats dwelling on Trump’s weight or if he stands up straight, that is all total BS to me. I don’t care if someone is overweight. Republicans criticizing Hillary for wearing pant suits. I mean come on!

Look up halo effect. People get sucked in by clothing and first impressions, but that is not the best way to judge someone. Some of our most brilliant men didn’t dress well. Back in the day in some places clean shaven and short hair was viewed as Christian or more trust worthy, now that is out the window.

@canidmajor And yet I have stayed spot on topic <eyeroll>

@JLeslie And yet so many aspects of our society expect to see certain dress in certain jobs. If you were arrested for a murder and your attorney came to see you dressed like Fetterman dresses, would you just say “well, it’s okay. Many good people in history didn’t dress well.”?

And look at it another way. The dress code was, while not set in stone, was well known. And now you have someone that blatantly ignores the rules. Again…is that a trait of someone you respect? Someone you feel is even worthy of respect?

I’ve said when speaking in front of a congress a certain minimum seems appropriate, so I am not ignoring social norms or that people do get judged by how they dress.

I wrestle with whether to dress well and put on make-up to a doctor’s appointment to be taken seriously, but then I also might be dismissed as not being in as much pain as I am or not feeling as sick as I do, because I look ok. Especially as a woman I think about it.

It kind of sucks though. It costs women more money and time compared to men. Our hair, make-up, shoes, undergarments, tampons, all sorts of stuff we deal with.

@JLeslie I get it. I’m one of those that believes in dressing for comfort and not to impress. My typical uniform these days is shorts, a tee shirt, and sandals. But I have had jobs that required a certain level of dress and I met those requirements without question. If I were addressing a group of executives, I wore professional looking clothes. It is expected and it is done so that you do not distract from what you are presenting by having them critique your clothes. Right or wrong, that happens.

Yet Schumer, instead of coaching a junior senator on what is expected and holding him to it, just did away with what is expected. Question: If Ted Cruz came into work every day dressed like Fetterman and he was the ONLY Senator to dress like that, do you believe Schumer would have done away with the dress code or would he have done some punishment of Cruz?

I have no idea how Schumer would have reacted. Did he say something about Cruz? Has he said anything about dress code before? Schumer usually is not extremely caught up in the fake, made up meaningless topics that are put out there lately. I am not saying he is never partisan, but I don’t see him out there being noisy about every little trivial thing that the public is riled up over. In my view Schumer is more focused on getting work done. Maybe he was trying to dismantle the conversation about dress code by saying there is no formal dress code, and it was ineffective or kind of backfired. I don’t know.

Who brought up what Fetterman was wearing in the first place? They are the one creating something about it. Was it a fellow senator? The Chinese? The Russians? Where is it originally coming from?

@JLeslie Nobody has said anything about dress code before because we haven’t had a John Fetterman before. Kinda hard to say it was a made up thing when he is parading around looking like an out of work Janitor all the time. My point about Cruz was that Schumer would not have done away with dress code had it been a political rival. You have seen Schumer in action…he has no problem going public about Republicans. You KNOW he would have made a huge deal out of it.

There is one scenario I can picture where getting rid of the dress code was the solution. If he has coached Fetterman and Fetterman refused to change, Schumer would not have wanted to publicly punish him since he is a Democrat. Rather than have it look like there is a slob running around and Schumer didn’t take action or was ignored, he takes action to remove the restriction on being a slob.

As for who brought it up? It was probably the American people. Seeing a slob as a Senator is disgusting to some. There were probably quite a few people that let their Senators know they thought so. American people do have a right to voice concerns and complaints with their elected officials. Chinese and Russians? Please. Why would they say anything. It helps them ridicule the US when they have a slob running around masquerading as a “respectable” Senator.

Apparently the people who voted for John Fetterman don’t dislike his clothing, because they voted for him which is what ultimately counts. Whether or not he gets re-elected depends on how he does in his job and what his constituents think of him. Us judging him is not really relevant to any of it.

And now Schumer has actually instituted a dress code for the floor of the Senate. Guess he caught a lot of flack for making the Senate a joke.