Why did Joe Biden's DHS suddenly want to build the wall Trump started?

I’m wondering that myself!

I admit I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it needed to be built. On the other hand, quite a few federal laws were purposely ignored to do it now. Also on that hand it was the DHS that decided to do it. They are using appropriations from 2019 which also sounds odd.

But I don’t understand the sudden turnabout. It almost sounds like he is admitting that Trump was right.

My guess is that Biden is pandering to Republican voters in the next election.

Ding-ding-ding I think @RedDeerGuy1 got it.

@RedDeerGuy1 I think you’ve got It too. He has to be seen as doing something about immigration.

Democrats might have finally accepted the fact that they wouldn’t be able to use their anti-wall stance as leverage and bargaining chip to get Republicans to agree on granting legal status to millions of undocumented that had been living here in the US for 10, 15 and as far back as 20 years by now.

The wall in exchange for amnesty for millions.

Clearly there will be no such compromise and deal-making of the kind that will be forthcoming from the current Republican politicians in DC.

Biden just changed the nature of the game, turned the table around etc. To what end, who knows?

New York is overwhelmed with migrants. Chicago is becoming overwhelmed as well. Although people may see large US cities as full of unlimited resources, they don’t necessarily have space and t hey’re all strapped for money, so hundreds of migrants per day (600 to NYC every day, 1200 to Chicago every day) can overwhelm the system and the workers. Mayor Adams (NYC) is currently in Mexico and then going to South America to try to stem the tide, but honestly I don’t think it will work because at present, NYC has a “right to shelter” law which means anybody who is homeless is provided with room and board. This is a magnet for migrants but it’s not sustainable. Migrants are being bussed elsewhere in NY state but the people in those small towns are really not having it. The local school systems can’t take a steady stream of new kids and so something’s got to give. From what I saw recently on the news, Adams is blaming Washington and Washington is blaming the NYC right to shelter law, saying if you stop housing them, they’ll stop coming. So that’s my personal opinion about why Biden did the about-face. If I talk to friends and neighbors, both Republican and Democrat, many people are pissed off about this issue.

Though @RedDeerGuy1 might be partially right, I think @jca2 has nailed it. The migrants are now upsetting (heavily Democratic, heavily minority) voters in NYC and Chicago, and that’ll spread to other ‘blue’ (Democratic, for those ignorant of US political metaphors) cities.

Biden and his handlers are reacting (slowly!) to Texas Governor Abbott’s and Florida Governor DeSantis’ strategy of transporting the illegals to places which have previously declared themselves to be ‘sanctuary cities’ where Immigration law will be mostly ignored and worked around. That was never a major problem when the influx of illegal aliens was smaller, but now that they’re being forced to deal with their virtue signals as if they were real information … it’s a problem for them.

Big election coming up. He’s down in the polls and he’s bucking for more moderate votes. The left will vote for him no matter what he does even continuing construction of “the wall”.

@RedDeerGuy1 There are Republicans that will vote for Biden? Unbelievable! HA!

@gondwanalon ~I heard from the news that ~20% of each of the two main American parties are set. That leaves 30% of each side that can swing either way.

Maybe Democrats never should have been so adamant that a wall is bad idea 100%. Maybe Republicans never should have been chanting “build the wall” which was equivalent to Latinos are criminals.

Everyone sucks.

@maxingerz88 I like your point. Biden just took that wedge issue away.

It’s like the voter ID thing. A long time ago Democrats should have said to Republicans, “sounds good, everyone needs ID to vote, lets make sure everyone has ID even if we need to provide free ID.”

Both parties want wedge issues to get money and to create animosity.

I’m sure its for votes and at the same time to show what hypocrites the republicans will be. Watch them come out against the wall now. Texas Govenor will complain that the wall is obstructing important waterways and farms. Same for Ted Cruz. Just like when they were negotiating for billions for the wall under Trump and the democrats agreed to get what they wanted and then they suddenly didn’t want that much.

@Pandora On this one I think the Republicans are more likely to say, “we were right” or say that Biden is just trying to get votes. Why do you think Republicans are going to look like bigger hypocrites than Democrats on this topic? I don’t even think it is hypocritical, I just think it is idiotic that everyone is always so black and white and contrary. Everything is so extreme. It’s all just for money and votes. My guess is Biden was never extreme on this, but I don’t know what he was saying on the topic the last five years. If he was against any wall and against more controls on the border, I would think that was probably pandering to the Democrats.

@JLeslie Democrats never claimed to not care about the border. What they disagree with the right is about how to handle the situation. Obviously, there have been walls built and rebuilt over the years of several presidents. Things like private property and environmental concerns have always existed and this is why people hesitate. You don’t want to rob someone of their land and you don’t want endangered species to suffer and some areas are just too difficult to work with. This isn’t something that is going to be resolved overnight. And I think its a dream for anyone to think it will stop real criminals and drug traffickers from coming into the US. They always will find a way. The ones that suffer are not going to be them. Govenor Newsom is doing all he can to make sure its the weak and poor crossing the border that suffer. The drug traffickers arent crossing rivers on foot. They drive their asses in, or enter through undergrown tunnels or fly in.

And I’m saying it is hypocritical when you cry about a wall being necessary and then suddenly you don’t care to have a wall. When Trump asked for 25 billion for his wall Dems were told they could save dreamer and avoid a shut down. First they were offered less and then were promised to leave dreamers alone if they agreed to a 25 billion funding for the wall. Dems agreed but then Republicans wanted less. I remember Trump wanted the 25 billion but Republicans in Congress went back on their word so Dems pulled the plug and gave them a few billion to at least end the shut down. Dreamers got screwed over.

@Pandora I agree Democrats have all along cared about protecting our borders, but in the end they still don’t do much about it in congress, because they like the wedge issue too.

There were plenty of Democrats on TV saying all of the people coming across are at extreme risk in their countries and asking for asylum, and didn’t want to finish the sentence that most of them do not qualify for asylum. They did not want to say that more and more were coming over because people were being let in. It’s a snowball. Both Trump and Biden should have been doing more to get judges down to the border and hear the cases within days or weeks and turn people around.

I know some of the land owners at the border do not want a barrier on their land, that will have to be worked out. I don’t think we need a literal wall across the entire border. It is not even feasible, there are plenty of natural barriers along the border anyway.

I didn’t know Republicans are already saying they don’t want a wall now. They will probably say they always knew the wall would not go across the entire border. They will just twist it somehow.

I fully support dreamers getting their citizenship and so do most people I know both Republican and Democrat.

I don’t know. I can’t even begin to engage this dialog, except to mention that “The Wall” idea is stupid and an environmental disaster.

Biden had no choice. He still says that walls do not work,

@RedDeerGuy1 You heard it on the “news”. It must be right.
I don’t believe anything the news tries to feed me.

I believe @jca2 hit it. There have been condemnations about Biden’s border policies that are coming from Democratically controlled cities that claim to be Sanctuary Cities. So many illegals are entering the country that now these same cities are having to actually back up their claims and it is killing them financially, resourcefully, and politically. But the reversal, to me, is saying that Trump was right to want to build the wall in the first place and the Democrats that fought tooth and nail against it were on the wrong side of that argument. All the things the conservatives have been saying would happen are coming to fruition.

It also is a sign that the efforts of TX and FL to ship illegals entering (or being sent to) their states to these Democratically controlled strongholds was a savvy political move to make the situation felt by all, not just a few. As much angst as NYC is seeing from their influx if illegals, they forget that all those illegals were coming into the country through a very few points and those states were having to deal with ALL the illegals, not just the relatively few that were suddenly hitting the cities.

^^They’re not illegals if they were processed and allowed in. You can refer to them as migrants or asylum seekers.

Because they can’t pretend it’s not a problem having a soft stance. I’m pleased that they are willing to admit it is an issue and course correct.

More than 2 million migrants were apprehended by Border Patrol in fiscal year 2023, which ended last week, only the second time in U.S. history that threshold has been surpassed, according to internal DHS figures.

In my opinion the term “illegals” is derogatory.

From what I always knew, the term “asylum” was meant for people who could not return to their country because of fear of political persecution, or some other dire reason, such as Russians or Chinese who were escaping Communism or people looking for some type of religious freedom (Muslims being persecuted in China is another example). It was never for people who are just poor and seeking a better life. Pernaps the definition is being modified now, I’m not sure.

The migrants are being given Medicaid, which is another thing that pisses people off around here (people from all political parties). It makes sense that they’re being given medical assistance but 25% of the patients in NYC hospitals are migrants, which is overhwhelming the system. People who have high health care deductibles and copays and worked at traditional jobs for decades and have to pay for their health care, in addition to the copays and deductibles are upset because the migrants are getting it all for free.

NYC is also giving the migrants restaurant food because they (the migrants) felt the traditional shelter food was not adequate for them, which is another thing which is costly and is pissing off people.

The shelters in NYC are so overwhelmed that the citizens who are homeless are being crowded out.

@mazingerz88 Here we use the term “migrants.” As of the summer 2023, there were so many that the news reported that 90% of them had not been processed yet (not enough workers to handle the influx) and it was believed at the time that the majority would not qualify for traditional asylum.

^^Makes me proud of big-hearted Americans who show compassion despite having hardships of their own. These Americans give this great nation its soul.

To me, the term Migrant is misleading. Migrants often get visas to come here to work. They get temporary visas to allow them to work. These are applied for and granted before they enter the country, not after. They are not immigrants. That, too, is misleading. Immigration requires application for a visa to enter the country. It implies legal entry into the country for the purposes of becoming a citizen.

When someone enters our country outside a port of entry, they are purposely trying to enter out country outside the rules for immigration. Entering outside the law means the entry is illegal. Many claim asylum, but that isn’t even accurate as @jca2 has pointed out. However they still have to go to have a determination as to whether they are legitimately seeking asylum (doubtful since they often crossed numerous borders to get to ours) or if they are just entering the country illegally.

@LostInParadise Thank you for that article. I hope everyone on the thread reads it.

@seawulf575 The biggest problem is you (and other people who think similarly to you) use the term illegals synonymously with criminals, and put these people in the same basket as rapist and murderers just because they are hoping to cross the border and have more opportunity for a better life. So now we are forced to be more careful with our words to be clear that we know these people are not bad people who want to harm Americans, they are just seeking a better life.

@mazingerz88 I’ve used the term migrant, but a lot of the people in NY are waiting. They can’t work, they did come across without papers, the US has basically put them in limbo. I think a lot of people probably take offense to the word migrant also, although like I said I use that term too. I think if I called my SIL a migrant she would have a fit even though it is technically correct. Is migrant only used for people who come as unskilled labor? What about my husband who came here for university and then stayed on a work visa?

I don’t know enough about it to comment intelligently. It does seem odd. And as an open borders supporter, I’m opposed to both the deportation and the wall.

@JLeslie Migrant is a kind term compared to illegal that seems to be loaded with a sense of loathing.

There are more Americans that are kind and generous despite the sufferings in their own lives….more than Americans who are just downright hateful of people coming in without permission. I really believe that.

@mazingerz88 I think most Americans are kind, they are not racist, I have many positive things to say about Americans. What about the question of what to call my husband, would you use the word migrant?

^^Yeah. Never personally heard that the word was negative in connotation in any way.

I just googled difference between a migrant and an immigrant and there are all sorts of definitions and links. We always used “immigrant” but now I guess it’s “migrant” but technically there’s a difference.

I think it is usually nicer to use a term that doesn’t label the person as if that is their entire existence which is often the implication when we just add an S, but I too use single terms for ease or shorthand. Terms like Blacks, Jews, diabetics, it is always nicer to say Black people, Jewish people, people with diabetes, etc. I say Jews myself, but it isn’t as “nice.” How often do you hear people say whites? I use migrants, I was just wondering how it is specifically being used. I also use undocumented and used to use illegal alien, which now is really passé I guess, and seen as offensive.

I think it’s appropriate that we’re feeding the people that are coming here, but when they’re demanding restaurant food because they don’t like the traditional shelter food, it tends to piss people off. I worked with a guy who was from Colombia, he came here and joined the military and became a citizen that way, and he describes the demanding attitudes “entitled.” They’re entitled to food, but are they entitled to restaurant food? There was an article in the NY Times about it, over the summer and the Times is traditionally a left-leaning paper, so it’s not like they’re reporting in a way that’s slanted to be negative toward migrants. The article was about how great it is that some restaurants got contracts to cook meals every day for the people who said the food is not culturally to their liking. My question is, if I went to Mexico or somewhere else, and I was poor, would I get a shelter and restaurant food? Probably not.

@JLeslie Illegal is the term used for an act that goes against the law. Everyone seems to think that just walking into this country wherever you want is perfectly fine. If you get caught you just say “Asylum!” and all is forgiven. That couldn’t be farther from the truth.

The motives of some of the people that do this may very well be innocent. But their actions are still illegal. And trying to come here against the immigration rules is a crime. If you get caught and say “Asylum!” because you want to be here for a better life, that isn’t asylum. You have to show some reasonable fear of persecution from your own country. Poverty is not persecution. So crying for asylum is also a crime. And to make it more clear how odd it is that we put up with it, most countries agree by the international rules for asylum status. This means that the person seeking asylum goes to the first country they come to where the persecution no longer exists…generally across one border. I remember seeing an article where one of the huge caravans of people heading this way were stopped in Mexico and offered asylum. They turned it down. But then they try claiming it when they cross into this country. No…it is a sham.

Ya know wulfie, as cold as you make all this sound I do agree with ya, I know I am shocked as well.
What I would like to know why the innocent ones are choosing this way to enter you country, instead of going the legal rout.

@seawulf575 So when found guilty we should refer to Trump as “an illegal” too?

Thanks @LostInParadise – that article seems to pretty clearly answer the question. Although, I’m still not sure whether Biden had an option to just simply not use the appropriated funds for anything. That seems like it would make more sense to me, given he and I agree that the Wall isn’t going to help anything (except the finances of the people who would be paid to do the work) and it will certainly involve environmental damage.

@SQUEEKY2 I think there are various reasons, many financial. And some actually are criminals and traffickers.

Listen none of us want to be assholes to people in need, but everyone needs to be checked out just like we all would be in their country.
I was met in Cancun airport by a military unit with machine guns, not to mention checkpoints, so I don’t think it’s out of line or ‘mean’.

@zaku If found guilty you could. You could call him a criminal. Would it be better for you if I referred to all those entering our country illegally as criminals?

@SQUEEKY2 The part that really annoys me is that some of these people pay thousands of dollars to coyotes to get them across the border. They risk their lives coming from foreign lands to get here. I did a check one time. It would cost them $197 dollars for a Visa application. They could apply for a Visa and, if accepted, they could spend the other money they spent illegally for a plane ticket to fly here. It’s insane. And it is all bolstered by our friends on the left. I just don’t get it.

And for all: I fully support legal immigration. I support temporary visas for people to come here to work. I’d even support someone that, through some bizarre issue, found themselves at our borders and were seeking help. When I say bizarre, I’m picturing a botched kidnapping that the person got away from, maybe a plane crash, maybe they were being hunted by criminals. It would be something highly unusual. But that is not what we are seeing and dealing with.

And all this brings us back to the original question. After the Democratic party has flaunted the immigration laws and fought to keep an open border, why did Joe Biden suddenly do an about face to start building a wall that, while not perfect, could help stem the tide?

The wall is stupid.

@SQUEEKY2 I think they’re not going the traditional “legal” route because it’s a long, time consuming process and not everyone who applies to stay here gets to stay here. There are quotas from each country and there are rules about who can and can’t stay, which is why there always were a lot of people who didn’t go the “legal” route – they came here and went underground, working off the books and just laying low. Now they’re all calling themselves “asylum seekers” but technically, they may not qualify for asylum.

If the US government has let them into the country and they are accounted for they are not illegal.

People who are here without any papers, that our immigration department is unaware of their existence in the country are here illegally. People who are here on tourist visas who are working, are here legally and are working illegally.

These people in NYC might have crossed the border without prior permission, but many of them surrendered themselves to authorities, and they now are accounted for and for now legally in the US.

I have always said a lot of the people coming across don’t qualify for asylum. It seems like we need the labor in some industries though, so it goes back to we should be making an easier path to coming in legally for work.

@JLeslie The US government did let them in and they are accounted for…sort of. Most are given a date to show up for their court date or to check in with immigration services at some periodicity. And most ignore all that, disappearing into the country. So does that make them illegal?

There is not a single country in the entire world with a deliberate open border policy. Most have controlled borders. We attempt to maintain ours this way, and for political, incompetence and precedence reasons have left it largely uncontrolled. I don’t understand why so many don’t comprehend why this is bad. This is not about immigration, it’s about border security. Politics has made it about immigration, and there have been serious consequences. This is especially true for those being exploited trying to get here. There is also the drug trade which is fueling chaos in our cities with addiction and homelessness. Homelessness is not because of the economy, it’s just drugs, or trauma, and mental illness made worse by drugs. For the love of god, it has to stop. I’ll step across the isle and say Biden may actually want to do the right thing for once on his way out. I’m not sure the right thing is a wall, but we certainly need to be securing the border better. I’m no expert on what that takes. We may be to the point we need to build a big crazy ass wall.

@seawulf575 Yes, if they overstay their permission that makes them illegal, but I still would not call them illegals. I would say they aren’t legally in the country though. Illegals just doesn’t sound nice. Like I said above it makes it sound like they are bad people doing much worse than just being in the US. Especially since many Trumpers see fit to constantly talk about murderers and drug runners who don’t have papers.

The term that is most commonly used is “undocumented.”

@seawulf575 Different words mean different things, and one can use more than one word per person, as well as more than one word to describe people who do something. And, reality is always more complicated that people’s attempts to use words to describe things.

So most of the conversation, here and in mainstream media, that fusses about what the “best” or “right” word to use to refer to people who aren’t US citizens who enter the US and may or may not want to stay, or to become citizens or not, and who may or may not break the law, with whatever reasons and circumstances and behavior, is an over-simplification, because each person will have their own situations. i.e. the whole swirl of conversations will always be inaccurate, and will tend to be dehumanizing, especially if we choose a word that’s about law-breaking, or is judgemental.

As soon as you choose a blanket term that’s judgemental, you’re either only referring to the people to whom the term accurately applies, or you’re unfairly pre-judging many people.

And “illegals” is a borderline-ungrammatical term which strikes me as particularly designed to cast a group of people as wicked outsiders.

The conversation reminds me more of lower-school name-calling than an attempt to communicate.

I think the word “illegal” makes a negative assumption about their status, when we don’t know what each individual’s status is, and the word “illegal alien” or “alien” does the same. I like “migrant” or “immigrant.”

Is the term “Dreamers” ok?

But if you call them all illegals it’s better for the Frightwing fear mongering machine to work up the public.

Good point, @SQUEEKY2.

^^They don’t seem to use the term “illegals” in Europe. And migration is a tremendous issue there.

But willing to bet that yes, there are Europeans who use the word in a hateful manner same as some Americans here. Easier to hate than calmly figure out the best potential solution with your fellow citizen-politicians…or these days citizen-enemies.

“Migrant” and “immigrant” imply an official status, as in going through the proper channels. “Illegal alien” “Illegal immigrant” is an official status too, here outside the official process A.K.A. illegally. The left has a hard time stating this fact. The right highlights it for the reasons mentioned. The fact remains it is illegal immigration.

^^Not just about the fact. Can’t you get it? It’s about your intention and reasoning in using the word “illegal” beyond accuracy.

And yes, this is not about border security, this is about migration. You would never have heard about border security if there was no immigration debacle at all.

Of course, but I’m afraid the right have a point to make; something needs to be done. Sure they use it as slander sometimes but the left wing nonchalant attitude toward this is beyond reprehensible. There is so much blood on their hands because of this.

^^It only feels nonchalant what Dems are doing because it’s easier to fear than be calm and level-headed about this immigration surge. This is wnat the right keeps doing, drum up the fear. They know it works. Politically especially.

Recall that day when trump was
waiting in the WH for Pelosi and Schumer to finally do something about border immigration and the wall? They were on their way but trump canceled it. Apparently, he realized cutting a deal is not good for him.

The right wants everybody to fear and instead forget how great the potential of Americans are as a people united.

Dems with their anti-wall stance and allowing people in are showing to the whole world and to ourselves as well…that America is not a nation of cowards and ignorants that fear facing the challenges of today’s world such as unprecedented global migration.

The Dems showed that. We should be glad not disheartened.

But whoever thinks the Dems would allow half of all the citizens of every country to come here then that person is a fool. Whoever pushes the idea has a sinister political agenda imo.

Americans when it comes to allowing people in, legal or not, Dems or Reps…an inevitable limit shall be reached. Should be simple logic.

The difference lies between how each American would feel when the country shuts the door on a…child.

You can justify it and downplay it all you want. I don’t think anyone is against legitimate immigration. Let’s be honest, this whole “shutting doors on children” thing is the left wing’s equivalent of what the right wing is saying about letting murders and rapists in. I really don’t care about any of that banter. The truth is, having this border pseudo open, has created a humanitarian crisis, has made it easier for the drug trade, human trafficking, exploitation of people both on the path to the border, through it, and when they get here by unscrupulous people who pay them pennies and often work them to death in unsafe conditions. None of this is ok and it’s crazy not to call it out for what it is.

^^Again this is not about legal immigration. Obviously. Some people feel the need to clarify that immigration is ok…ok as long as it’s legal. It’s ok. Fine. But seriously, the issue at hand is not about legal migration. No one has a problem with that.

@JLeslie And that is where I differ from many. I don’t really care if it “sounds bad” or it might “hurt their feelings”. I stopped worrying about that when the left started using terms like “racist” and “Xenophobic” or “Transphobic” and many others to describe me and others. They purposely use words designed to try using my own feelings against me. Screw that. And often it is from the same people that tell me “illegals” is a mean term. Look at what Hillary has said and what she continues to say. First, half of Trump voters were “deplorables”. Now we just need to be taken away to be “deprogrammed”. There was another left wing news opiner that said we needed to be taken away to a “gulag”. And many on the left applaud things like this.

Until the left actually lives to their own standards they can kiss my butt when it comes to what words I use.

^^It destroys you being called a deplorable? You retaliate by voting for trump? Sad. Terribly sad.

@SQUEEKY2 You do see the irony and hypocrisy, right? You denounce people for calling people here illegally “illegals” yet you refer to those using that word as “Frightwingers”. See the above statement to @JLeslie

@mazingerz88 Does it destroy any of the illegals here to be called illegals? You cannot see your own hypocrisies and illogic.

^^Yes! Coming from both politicians and citizens with dark and sinister agendas. It destroys these migrants chances of being understood as human beings when they’re all lumped together as mortal threats to America’s existence and identity.

Oh stop already with this hypocrisy this and hypocrisy that labeling. Petty. A good American is not petty imo.

Just to wave my own flag again, I feel people should be able to move freely across the border without restrictions. It should be as easy to get in and out of the country as it is to go from California to Nevada. There should be no such thing as illegal immigration as all immigration should be legal.

There. Go ahead. Hit me. :-)

All countries should have a set amount of vetting,you do want to keep out the real criminals.
And health checks.
I have no idea why these people think the us is the land of milk and honey, it’s one of the last countries I would want to go to.

@Caravanfan It would be interesting to test it. What about being able to work? Do you give everyone a social security number and legal to work?

Part of an article in the NYT…heartening that two Republican leaders are helping and not politicizing the issue. Imagine a US Congress that would do the same.

——————————

Mayor Eric Adams has responded to this challenge with increasingly sharp, ominous statements. “This issue will destroy New York City,” he said on Sept. 6. “Every community in this city is going to be impacted,” he continued. “The city we knew, we’re about to lose.” Demonizing populations of people is dangerous and will not help the city respond to their needs, even if the mayor is right to raise the alarm and insist on more federal aid.

President Biden announced on Sept. 20 that his administration will extend temporary work permits to nearly half a million Venezuelans, a concession to intense pressure from Mr. Adams and other state and city leaders from his own party who find their communities overwhelmed.

That will help some businesses that are desperate for more workers. But Mr. Biden’s reluctance is understandable; expanding work authorization without addressing America’s broken immigration system will do little to deter people from trying to cross the U.S. border unlawfully or to seek asylum, and it gives Congress a pass.

Some Republican leaders have stepped up to offer help. Gov. Spencer Cox of Utah and Gov. Eric Holcomb of Indiana wrote an essay in The Washington Post in February offering to sponsor immigrants, citing more than 300,000 job vacancies between the two states. “In meaningful ways, every U.S. state shares a border with the rest of the world, and all of them need investment, markets and workers from abroad,” they wrote. “That border can remain an embarrassment, or it can become a big asset to us once again.”

@JLeslie Yes.

@mazingerz88 Does being called a hypocrite destroy you? Too sad.

^^Yeah.A lot of things are too sad in the US today.