When is criticism of Israel anti-semitic and when is it not?

When it relies on stereotypes commonly used to denigrate Jews and extends those to the nation, it’s anti-semetic. When it’s criticizing Israeli government programs and policies from a reasoned stand point, it’s less likely to be anti-semetic.

I hope you will get longer, more cogent answers than this one.

I’m sensitive to this issue because for a long time substantive criticism of Netanyahu and his administration’s policies have been met with people claiming antisemitism as a means to shield said administration from criticism. I believe the US has not lived up to its duty to compel Israel to respect international law. I also believe that had the US forced Israel to follow international law, the attacks this weekend would not have happened. Those most critical of Israel are doing it out of affection for the Israeli people. We want peace and that can never happen while Israel oppresses and ethnically cleanses another group of people.

In other words, we do the Israeli people no favors by enabling them to engage in war crimes with impunity. I remember a few years back people were giving Ilhan Omar a bunch of shit and calling her an antisemite, forgetting (or ignoring) the fact that she endorsed Bernie Sanders who would have been the first Jewish president of the US The progressive left does not hate Jewish people.

As a counterpoint, many in the the progressive left hates the Jews. As I said in a prior post that got modded, my daughter is a Jew in a sea of progressives. She constantly gets harrassed about being Jewish asking her to defend her Jewishness in lieu of what her peers see as Israeli crimes. And here on Fluther there are clear war crimes being committed by Hamas but the progressive left continue to gloss over that to bring up old issues of Israeli treatment of Palestinians, completely glossing over the fact that hundreds were gunned down at a music festival. It’s classic gaslighting victim blaming techniques.

@Caravanfan Anyone who harasses another person based on their faith and/or ethnicity isn’t a progressive. It’s antithetical to progressivism.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Nobody is saying it’s ok to commit acts of violence against civilians. That’s a war crime. Has anyone said they support the rape/murder/kidnapping of civilians? Certainly not a progressive. That such acts are despicable and wrong is self-evident. I’m happy to engage in a prolonged conversation about how it’s wrong to hurt innocent people, but it’s kind of a pointless conversation. It’d be like writing an essay on how the Earth revolves around the Sun debating a non-existent cohort of geocentrists.

The other reason the conversation has focused on Israel is that the questions being asked are about the state of Israel (e.g. THIS question). Nobody is blaming the innocent civilians who were gunned down in their kibbutz, or the kids at the music festival for the heinous crimes committed against them. Of course countries like Iran that sent weapons to Hamas have a lot of innocent blood on their hands, but I also think Netanyahu bears much of the blame, and ultimately I bear part of the blame too and every other American whose tax dollars are being sent to Israel to enable the atrocities that have been occurring there for decades—so yes it’s an “old issue” but its also a new issue as the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians is an ongoing process. The disgusting thing is that nobody seems to give a shit unless something like this happens. It’s like the western media is incentivizing terrorism.

@gorillapaws Almost every Jewish person I know thinks Netanyahu is horrible and they were very upset he was elected again. None of them can be called antisemitic or anti-Israel, some of them are Israeli, very proud Israelis. I don’t know anyone, Jewish or not Jewish, who thinks criticism of Bibi is antisemitic.

Ignoring what the Palestinians have done over time and now, and the entire history of them not wanting peace and blaming Israel for all the bloodshed and people harassing Jewish people in the US because they support Israel often can be antisemitic.

You might be able to technically say they aren’t progressives, but a lot of it is coming from the far left.

You say no one cares about the Palestinians, who is the no ones? Are you including the Arab states? Most people do care about the Palestinian people, although the countries in the region seem to not want them very much. They are right there in the region and don’t love Israel either. This recent action will harm the Palestinians for years is my prediction.

A little off topic, but since a jelly brought it up, some articles about antisemitism on college campuses.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2023/05/31/antisemitic-crime-rutgers-university-nj-college-campus/6707094001/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-students-report-jump-in-mental-scarring-from-campus-antisemitism-but-see-no-end/amp/

https://www.timesunion.com/hudsonvalley/news/article/suny-new-paltz-federal-investigation-antisemitism-18147861.php

The first time I dealt with antisemitism directly or very close to me was when I was in college in the late ‘80’s. There were multiple incidents during my college years, some blatant antisemitism and some the people were probably just ignorant or stupid and not hateful (hopefully). The only incident before college was knowing the KKK was marching near where I lived on one particular day, the rest of my childhood I felt safe and stories of antisemitism were always there, but not right in my backyard nor directly to my face.

I sympathize with @Caravanfan’s daughter’s experience. What many people seem to not realize is how scary it can be.

People who are extremely negative about Israel tend to be brutal and very one sided in their criticism in my opinion. They are much like the Democrats who despised Hillary Clinton. They can be quite vicious. It doesn’t feel like they are just explaining their point of view it feels like they hate anyone with a different point of view.

For a Jewish person it taps into our fears that we grow up with, the trans-generational trauma we experience. Plus, ongoing antisemitic violent acts like mass shootings and various levels of physical harassment and threats keep our anxiety up. Most people don’t give a shit or acknowledge that we deal with that, they don’t take our minority experience or status seriously, because they dismiss us and stereotype us as rich and white.

Ironically, generational trauma was first studied regarding family members of Holocaust survivors. Now, it helps explain the psychology of the American Black experience and other minority groups.

We don’t know if the person who hates Israel also hates Jewish people or if they separate the two things unless we hear that from them. It’s like the confederate flag, I don’t know if the person wearing or flying that flag wants to kill me, or if they feel it represents their Southern pride and they don’t hate anyone.

At this point, it depends on the emotions of whoever you’re asking.
With how controversial the topic is, it really isn’t going to have a concrete answer.

Some think criticism of the West is “anti-white”, or criticism of their particular country is anti the people of that nation, because nationalists tie ethnic and cultural identity to national identity.

For Israeli nationalists, pretty much anything bad said about Israel is met with a sneering cynicism that you’re really secretly harbouring anti-Jewish sentiment.

@Kropotkin What you have written is classic “what-about-ism”. You are trying to equate other criticism with anti-semitism. You are wrong. What we are discussing here is anti-semitism. We are not here to discuss other hates. You are implying that because hate exists in other areas, then Jews should somehow be comforted by that. Jews should somehow think less of the hate directed at them, because other hate exists. Seriously?

Probably just better to hold off on any criticism, since anything before the current date of October 11, 2023 is old news and is considered bringing up old stuff.

I think that, just like with any group, Israel makes decisions or takes actions that some disagree with. Saying you disagree with their decisions or their actions is NOT Anti-Semitic. But it is guaranteed that there are many, who generally want to shut down the criticism, that will call it as such.

Anti-Semitic would be criticisms not because of actions or decisions, but because of the people making those decisions or taking those actions being Jews.

@gorillapaws “Nobody is saying it’s ok to commit acts of violence against civilians.”

I was wrong about this. I saw some disturbing videos of people claiming to be on the left from around the world who were clearly antisemitic. It’s hard to process. As I stated above, opposing people based on their faith or ethnicity is definitionally antithetical to tolerance, human rights and progressivism.

Hamas is distinct from the Palestinians. One can reject and condemn Hamas while also supporting the Palestinian people. Anyone who claims to be on the left who supports Hamas is not of the left—they’re just horrible people.

If you realize that the State of Israel is not a theocracy, and that Judaism is not necessarily Zionist, then you’re on pretty solid ground. As stated several times in several posts above, criticism of the State of Israel is not criticism of religious beliefs of Judaism.