Would you consider this harassment?

It’s annoying, but I doubt you can make a harassment case for this. She needs a a life, is what I would say.

But I think you’re playing this all wrong.

Get a couple of cheap halloween masks – different ones, some scary, some benign.

Put them on as you are walking by her doorbell camera. Maybe stop in front of the camera and dance or wave your hands. Or do something dopey and silly each time – like walk backwards, or twirl yourself, or something like that.

That will piss her off. Which is OK, because she is annoying to you – no reason why you can’t play games with her mind.

Maybe she’s nuts. I realize that “nuts” is not a technical term but obviously there’s a screw loose.

While I would consider it harrassment, I doubt that it is legally or technically so.

Yes I would. You have no choice in this situation but she has a choice to shut up. I would recommend recording examples and taking it to the property manager.

I completely disagree with @elbanditoroso. It would be a mistake to provoke her. Yes, you should complain to the rental office.

As an aside, I am speaking as someone who is pressing a criminal investigation against a client of the state agency where I work. The man has been harassing me for 4 or 5 years, and he harasses other state agencies as well and his health insurer. His harassment has grown to where the Honolulu Police opened a criminal investigation just today. It has been so bad that I’ve had to take sick leave.

Keep a written log of her harassment to provide to your rental office. Write down every single time she shouts at you.

I did send an email to my rental office, and I am making note of each episode. I don’t ask for much. I pay $1,800 a month in rent and all I want to do is be left alone. I don’t mind making friends with people but I don’t mind if they want to keep to themselves either. But I don’t feel like putting up with the constant harassment.

Not harrassment. But super annoying. My advice would be to ignore it.
We have a ring camera. I wouldn’t call it “a special kind of paranoid” to have it since our house does not face the street and we have been burgled before.

Why is your first choice to make her more paranoid?
Bring her some home made bread. Try to get her to be glad you’re home.

Is this the person who you think stole your package from outside your door, and had a fit when you touched hers or something like that?

I would certainly be annoyed as well. Write a letter to the management office and let them respectfully know what is occurring.
I might even start recording the audio as you walk by to substantiate your story if needed in the future.

You could get an RC car and drive in and out of the doorbell’s zone so she’s constantly getting alerted. She may decide to turn off or dial back the doorbell’s sensitivity.

I do think, the complaint you filed was the smart play here. She may be under no legal requirement to be nice to you via state/local laws, but it may be a condition of her lease that she can’t pester other renters.

You have a crappy neighbor. Not sure if it would be harassment or not, I guess it would depend on what she is saying. Now me, I’m a twisted sort. I’d walk by to leave and let her squawk. Then I’d remember I forgot the grocery list and walk back by and let her squawk. Then I’d walk back by again to leave and let her squawk. Then I’d remember I forgot my wallet and walk back by. Squawk. Leave again…squawk. And if you REALLY want to torque her off, smile sweetly at her RING each time.

OR

Is it possible to hug the wall, sneak up to her doorbell, and stick some duct tape over it?

I don’t get it. You walk by and is there some sort of speaker on the ring that she is speaking through that every time you walk by she says something? What is she saying? Is she saying something mean or just saying hello?

Can you just ask her not to say something if it bothers you that much?

She does it every time, so can you just wave and say “hi firstname” and continue into your apartment?

I would be glad my neighbor has a camera on the hallway in front of my door, but I was raised by parents who were raised in The Bronx. Lol.

I do think it’s a little weird that she says something every time, is it a recording to scare people off?

I just noticed you said she is saying something nasty, so is it a recording?

As someone who dealt with a nightmare neighbor who then turned the tables on me and got me charged with harassment, I will say a) I’m sorry to hear about your situation, because I know how badly it can suck and b) for better or worse, your best course of action is to document and be persistent with the police or municipal department that deals with such things.

First though, is to look up your statutes. In New Mexico, this is the definition of harassment: Harassment consists of knowingly pursuing a pattern of conduct that is intended to annoy, seriously alarm or terrorize another person and that serves no lawful purpose. The conduct must be such that it would cause a reasonable person to suffer substantial emotional distress.

Fortunately for you, it’ should be very easy to record the harassment. Just start your phone video before walking up the stairs. I would think a supercut of all the incidents would be very compelling evidence.

One of the things I learned is that two people can harass each other simultaneously, so if you decide to retaliate, then you can’t count on being protected by the fact that other person started things or acted out more than you did.

Another option you might think about is talking to a lawyer or calling a landlord/tenant hotline to see whether you can induce the management into taking action.

Another option would be to ask to move apartments.

@kevbo1 gave great advice. My other thought is if and when you correspond with the Management office, do so in writing (snail mail letter) and send it to the top – the Director or whoever is in charge, with their name on the envelope and letter, and keep a copy. Even if you don’t put it in the actual mail, type it out, print on paper, and drop it at the Management Office but it’s better than email. If you do a “contact us” or just a regular email, you don’t know who is looking at it (or not) and it doesn’t come across as a priority when received that way. You want them to take notice that this is an important issue. You want to do everything possible to ensure that the person at the top reads it.

I was taught long ago that when you complain about something, direct the complaint to the top, and then it trickles down. When dealing with a problem with a store, a product, a facility, or an entity, bring it to the top. It gets attention that way. When I worked in local government, when someone called the person at the top, it got everyone jumping and giving it top priority.

Your concern seems ridiculous to me. Just look at her spy contraption when you walk by with your tongue out.

@SnipSnip might not be the best thing to do ^^^, most record whatever is going on in front of them. The “nasty” may use it against the OP!

Am I wrong, or has this neighbor been an issue the op asked about before?

@MrGrimm888 It was more wordy and in a slightly different context but yes
https://www.fluther.com/236777/is-this-seriously-something-that-somebody-could-call-the-police-over/

^I thought so…
Yeah.
I think I’ll stick with just making sure that anyone who matters knows that this bitch started it, AND is continuing/escalating her behavior.
Just try to get the cops to come by and tell both of you not to contact each other.
If the situation continues to deteriorate, you could consider moving to a different apartment , or property your current landowners may have available. That would suck, but could be preferable to months/years of neighbor troubles.

However. Is it better the devil you know?...

I’d handle it differently. But that’s me.

If I were the op, I’d let people do their jobs. It’s not her job to handle such disputes. Nor the neighbor’s. I would just want to get the important people to understand that I was not the problem. And being the first to contact law enforcement, means that she feels laws may need to be enforced. That’s what cops are for. A big part of their jobs, is stuff exactly like this. It usually goes on and on…
My impression of the op, is that she is not confrontational, and has genuine concerns that she pays taxes to not have to be confrontational. She shouldn’t pepper 911. But time to contact some local authorities so she isn’t by herself in all of this is now. In my opinion…

No offense to anyone else. Most ideas above are sensible…
Ignoring the neighbor, while ideal, may not offer the desired outcome…

@Caravanfan I guess, and probably my paranoid comment was not fair, but as I have a lot of things delivered successfully, I’m sure others do too. And a lot of times people that worry excessively about that, well, just seems kind of paranoid

@filmfann never mind my somewhat doubtful baking skills, sometimes you have to recognize that some people will not be open to friendly overtures, and may in fact use any such outreach as a reason to blame you for bothering them.

@jca2 yes, to the second incident, and I’m not sure to the first. But I know that she’s good friends with the people upstairs, and I suspect it was one of them. As far as the concerns your second comment, as I try and catch up with all the people who have responded, I understand what you’re saying about going to the top, but that can also be a negative thing if you’re trying to maintain good relations with the immediate people in charge. Because those are the people who often get chewed out by those above them and then they tend to get their back up towards the person who complained. Although I am certainly aware that that is an option, I prefer to leave that for later if I need to.

@gorillapaws while your idea amuses me, I am not further trying to exacerbate the situation. Even now I would be willing to meet and talk about the whole thing, although probably with rental companies staff present. I don’t think taking a step like an RC car is the way to go. But you did make me laugh!

@seawulf575 all I’m using ideas, but again I’m not trying to potentially make the situation worse. I’m not trying to get revenge, I just want to either have friendly relations with my neighbors or to at least have them leave me alone.

@JLeslie it’s motion detected, but it’s not a prerecorded message although I think there are options for that because I’ve heard a response that she gives to solicitors coming to the door that she’s not interested. The thing is when I typically get home from work, I’m a homebody and don’t usually go out again. So the times these things have happened are if I’ve gone down to my mailbox because there was something in particular that I was expecting that I didn’t want to just wait until the next morning to retrieve when I leave for work. I get email notifications for all my bills due and I pay them online, so most of what I get in the mail is junk. But I do order things for my craft hobbies. And asking her not to say something would probably prompt her to do so more. It’s not a recording. I don’t know if her device records what she says to people, but it’s not like she’s going to provide that information.

@kevbo1 it is not in my nature, I’m totally against my moral values to try and retaliate or harass this person. So that’s not something to worry about. As far as moving, I would not incur the expense that’s involved with that just for the situation. Also, moving is really stressful and with my various health issues, I don’t need to add more stress to my life. Thanks for all the info though!

@MrGrimm888 you are not wrong. But, here’s my thought. Knowing that there have been negative incidents when cops have been called, over the top actions for certain groups of people, that’s not something I want to do just yet. I will certainly keep it as an option on the table but from what I have seen in the year and a half that I have lived here, the rental office people are actually pretty good at taking care of stuff like this. They should be calling me back tomorrow to let me know how the conversation went and if they have not already done so, then I’m going to ask them to ask her not to have anything else to say to me. A week or so ago when it was different lady, the one vacuuming at 3:45 a.m. in the morning directly above my head, when I sent an email to the rental office, they called her. She of course denied it and then turned it around and said that I was harassing her. So when they called me back they were sympathetic to what I had to say but they did suggest that from now on if I had any problems I just contact them. So I would expect their response to be the same to my neighbor. And if it’s not, then that’s where I take further steps because if you are asking one person to do that, then there’s no reason why that solution shouldn’t be the one for everyone. Otherwise, I start to question if there’s some sort of favoritism going on, and that’s when I go over their heads, and or call the cops. But I seriously think it’s going to get taken care of before that. Things have been very quiet today.

Glad I could at least make you laugh. It sounds like a pretty shitty situation to be honest. Wishing you the very best getting to an amicable resolution.

@LifeQuestioner regarding noisy neighbors while you sleep, we handle that issue by running a very noisy fan in our bedroom.

I don’t think it’s paranoid for a single woman to have a Ring, an extra lock, or an alarm. I know more than one woman who has been stranger raped and two of them it happened in their apartment. My aunt was robbed twice during my lifetime from her apartment. I had my house robbed years ago and so did my SIL. Robbers usually prefer no one home.

Are you saying when you come and go from work she doesn’t yell at you, it’s only when you go for your mail, or out at an unusual hour? I guess it’s good you filed a complaint if you feel you can’t ask her directly, it will give her a chance to explain or stop. If she is home and can see it’s you, and it’s not a recording, then I agree it’s off putting, but I’d still like my neighbor had one.

@snowberry I do have a fan running, but not super loud. But it was still very apparent that she was vacuuming in the room right over my bedroom at 3:45 in the morning.

@JLeslie I don’t know why it’s not that there’s other times. Perhaps she’s still sleeping when I leave for work, or she’s driving to work and can’t check her phone. I just know that it seems to be at other times of the day when I’m not just leaving or coming home from work.

I spoke to the rental office and they’re going to tell her not to interact with me anymore. They have asked me not to do the same, which is fine because I have no desire to interact with this woman at this point. I did find out though that in Maryland, unless you have somebody’s consent, you cannot record audio, so now the rental property is looking at the policies and seeing if they need to change anything about Ring cameras. I did ask one of the rental property ladies who I spoke with not to make it an issue just with this lady. I said I only want to make them aware because if it would be an issue then they would probably need to address it with her again. In Maryland, if you record somebody without their consent, you can receive up the five years in prison. I’m not trying to go there at all, but I am letting the rental office know in case this woman still continues to try and make problems for me. And I’m not trying to deny anybody the right to have a ring camera, but the rights of other people in the building need to be considered as well. I asked the rental office what would happen if I came up to my door and was talking on the phone and was getting angry with the person on the phone. If she recorded my conversation and then sent it in presented as that I’ve been speaking to her, she could have used that to make trouble for me. But under Maryland law, I could turn around and sue her if I was so inclined.

Just curious…if your apartments are next to each other, which is how you described them in the initial post, how was she vacuuming in the room over your bedroom?

Glad that your rental office responded to you rather than sweeping it under the rug.

@smudges good question, but the vacuuming was a totally different person who lives on the floor above me. They’re all friends with each other, of course. And I have to say that my rental company is really good about handling these types of situations. I actually stopped by there today and talked to them in person, making sure they understood where I was coming from.

@LifeQuestioner My other suggestion is for you to keep a log of the dates of the interactions with her and the dates of the conversations you have with the Rental Office, and the name(s) of who you spoke to. That way, if the shit ever hits the fan, you are not relying on your memory, but you will have some documentation of what occurred and when, and your attempts to rectify it. Keep a notebook or keep it on the computer, someplace where you can add to it and access it when needed.

@LifeQuestioner Good to hear they were receptive!

@Tropical_Willie Against the OP? How?