Jeffrey Epstein’s list of famous people tied to him and his sex trafficking is set to be released today. Does it really matter? Will there be charges against people like Bill Clinton or Prince Phillip if they are on the list?

Nothing. Yet it helps feed the media feeding frenzy that they must spill dirt even if it means nothing. They have ratings to meet!!!

1) Epstein is dead; it won’t make a difference to him.

2) Prince Philip is dead, so it won’t make a difference to him either.

As for Bill Clinton and other notables -> no effect at all. This is the exemplar of “yesterday’s news”. Anything that happened was 5–10 years ago or more. I imagine that the statute of limitations has long passed.

Even if it hasn’t passed, this so-called evidence is unlikely to be accepted in a court. Too old, not authenticated, and so on and so forth.

So at worst, it’s a sensation of Fox News for 24 hours. Otherwise, a nothing burger.

The only impact will be political. It might spur an investigation to when this information was known and why it was not released. That would indicate corruption…hiding evidence to protect friends and political allies.

But letting these people off without dragging their names through the dirt is the wrong thing as well. They were molesting children and supporting human trafficking. It might be too late for any charges, but besmirching their reputations with their association with Epstein’s crimes would be something. And I have to wonder if it is too late for charges. Ghislaine Maxwell just got prosecuted and convicted for her participation in 2021. The names on the list of frequent fliers and visitors to his island wouldn’t be enough evidence, but if you could get any of the witnesses at her trial to testify to the presence of any/all of these people partaking of the underaged wares, it might be enough to start the trial.

Any halfway decent attorney will say “these are just names in a book. They’re not proof of anything.” The attorney would be correct. In the court of public opinion, maybe these people are awful, but legally, there’s no proof of anything. Even if the book spelled out more details (names, ages), it’s not proof.

Of course it matters. It will give us, the public an idea of how deep this criminal underground goes. It will add teeth to previous and future accusations with people on this list.

Well. Somebody has to say it. I guess I will.

The CIA (likely) set that entire thing up, to gather dirt on the most powerful people in the world.

There is likely a plethora of really deplorable crap, about everyone.

Will it ever be used? I can’t know.

Remember. J.E. Hoover was infamous for his knowledge of powerful people’s secrets. I realize that was the FBI, but the concept is as old as society.
The uber rich and powerful, are usually criminals.
Bar owners and sex workers, have ALWAYS been a great source of intelligence.

The island was as much a VIP trap, as Michael Jackson’s Wonderland Ranch was for kids.

And yes. It matters what our hypocritical leaders have been up to, while others are punished for exponentially less…

Jeffery who?

@MrGrimm888 it would be nice to have some real evidence about the CIA…

Just like it would be desirable to know who actually killed Epstein. Because I don’t buy that he offed himself.

I think @Blackwater_Park stated it very well why it matters.

@elbanditoroso .
That is what “staying woke,” is really about.
People “creepin.
They gon’ find you,
catch you sleeping.
Ooooohhh, stay woke!.”

I have ZERO doubt, there is a LOT of “evidence.” Somewhere…

I didn’t hear anything about this as of 7 pm Eastern time. Did anything happen with it?

I haven’t heard anything yet,
either.

Here’s NY Times article from today (Jan 2/24):

Court documents related to the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein are expected to be released soon with many names that were previously redacted, and prominent figures on the right are holding up the impending disclosures as evidence of wrongdoing by Democrats despite a lack of concrete information about what they will show.

Most of the names being made public — currently cited in the documents as John Does — have previously been identified in other court documents or in news reports as having been associated with Mr. Epstein.

A longtime friend of powerful people, including politicians, business executives and royalty, Mr. Epstein was accused of preying on girls as young as 14, bringing them to his homes and paying them for sex acts. He died at 66 by suicide in jail in 2019, before he could stand trial in Manhattan on federal sex-trafficking charges, but his associate Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted in 2021 of conspiring with him and sentenced to 20 years in prison. Mr. Epstein’s estate has since paid out about $150 million in settlements to more than 125 women.

It is in connection with a defamation lawsuit against Ms. Maxwell that the documents are being released. That lawsuit was brought by one of Mr. Epstein’s and Ms. Maxwell’s victims, Virginia Giuffre. Previously, many of the names in the documents were sealed, but a New York judge ruled in December that some of them could be unsealed.

Multiple news reports have said that former President Bill Clinton will be among those named, a fact conservative commentators have jumped on, though there is no indication that it will be in connection with allegations of wrongdoing, and Ms. Giuffre has not accused Mr. Clinton of any misconduct. His office said in 2019 that he had flown on Mr. Epstein’s private plane but had no knowledge of Mr. Epstein’s crimes, and a spokesman pointed to that statement on Tuesday.

“President Clinton knows nothing about the terrible crimes Jeffrey Epstein pleaded guilty to in Florida some years ago, or those with which he has been recently charged in New York,” the 2019 statement said, acknowledging trips and meetings with Mr. Epstein in the early 2000s. It added, “He’s not spoken to Epstein in well over a decade.”

Being named in the documents does not necessarily indicate that a person participated in or was aware of Mr. Epstein’s or Ms. Maxwell’s actions, and it was already known that Mr. Epstein was friendly with Mr. Clinton — as well as countless other celebrities and officials, including Donald J. Trump. It remains to be seen if the documents will say anything significant about Mr. Clinton or any other person.

But right-wing officials and commentators have seized on the impending release without caveats.

“For some us, it’s no surprise at all that Bill Clinton will be named in the Jeffrey Epstein files. We said it a long time ago but they labeled us conspiracy theorists,” Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene, Republican of Georgia, wrote on X, adding, “Pedophiles belong in jail not on secret government lists.”

Ms. Greene’s comment adopted some conservatives’ description of the coming documents as a “list” of Mr. Epstein’s associates, but according to a person briefed on the documents, many of them are depositions taken from victims of Mr. Epstein and related court filings.

Others playing up the documents included the far-right commentator Benny Johnson; Graham Allen, a right-wing video streamer; and Brigitte Gabriel, the founder of the anti-Muslim group ACT for America.

One name expected to be included in the documents is that of Prince Andrew, who in 2022 settled a lawsuit filed by Ms. Giuffre accusing him of sexual abuse.

I think you meant Prince Andrew (a son of Queen Elizabeth) instead of Prince Phillip (deceased husband of the Queen). I don’t think it will make any difference at all even if Bill Clinton or Bill Gates is on it!!! I would get a good chuckle if 45 is on it. :-)

It’s after 8:30pm on the east coast, so it must not have come out today or nobody worth a crap was on it!!!

I think it will be a lot like what’s already happened with this: people will go nuts seeing someone they already hate on the list, but will ignore, deflect, and make excuses for one of “their guys” being associated with him.

@LadyMarissa That story already came out. Surely you remember the outrage when it was leaked that Trump flew with Epstein? But it was basically one flight from NY to FL and there was no evidence he did anything more than fly on the plane. He was with his former wife and his children at the time. No violated girls came forward to say he abused them. That didn’t stop the deranged lefties from calling him a pedo and making a big deal out of it. Trump has already dealt with this crisis of exposure. And at that same time it was pointed out Clinton had flown many times and those same fools on the left, as @Demosthenes pointed out, ignored, deflected and made excuses for it.

I did mean Prince Andrew.

It matters to me and many others especially if it involves politicians and complicit government in child sex crimes or trafficking.

@KNOWITALL but that’s the question, isn’t it?

I imagine that there are dozens, even hundreds, of people who interacted with Epstein on a regular basis – financial people, investors, professors, politicians possibly, who likely knew absolutely nothing about the sexual stuff that Epstein was into.

Should they be painted as sex fiends because the might have invested Epstein’s money?

Not to excuse the guilty -it’s pretty clear that Prince Andrew was fooling around with underage girls. It’s less clear that Clinton was, or for that matter, the guy who owned The Limited – Wexner.

Just because you do business with a person doesn’t mean you’re guilty. Look at Donald Trump – is everyone who did business with him as shady as he is?

@elbanditoroso You are right that just because you do business with someone that their crimes are not yours. However it is well established that Epstein was a human trafficker and used underaged girls on his plane and island. If someone does business with him, they may not be aware of that or they don’t see an upside to blowing the whistle on the whole thing even if they never took part in it. Likewise if someone was invited to a special event at Epstein’s island home and they attended and that is the only time they were there, it might not be that person was involved at all, may have in fact realized what was going on and never wanted to go back again.

But some of these people are frequent flyers, as it were, on the plane and at the island. They were not always there for some function nor with family. Those people are far more likely, IMHO, to be not only aware of what was going on, but actively partaking in it and supporting it. Additionally a lot of the names on this list are very powerful people. So if you were one of those people that attended a function once, you may possibly have seen these very same people taking advantage of underaged girls. But speaking out against them might be detrimental to your business or your life. Look at the Harvey Weinstein case as a perfect example. He was a complete sleaze-bag, yet was tremendously influential in Hollywood. Any starlet that dared to speak out against him found the cops backing Harvey and their careers tanked for all time.

And let’s put this into the idea of Trump. When it came out that Trump flew with Epstein the left tried painting him as a sex crazed pervert that loved little girls. Of course at the same time it became known that Bill Clinton was a frequent flyer and those same people on the left tried deflecting. But all it took was Trump’s name on the list for people to start branding him.

So no, having your name on this list doesn’t prove you had anything to do with the human trafficking or that you ever had sex with underaged girls. But it does put you on the list of people that could have. AND if you are a frequent flyer, you likely knew what Epstein was doing and you said and did nothing about it. That alone doesn’t speak very much to your morals. So when these same people want to come out on the side of any social issue, they will probably be met with their names on the list as a way to shut them up.

@elbanditoroso A list of associates in and of itself is not an assertion of guilt imo, but it’s a great starting point. Woke culture has ended many careers over ill-chosen verbiage, so if actual sex crimes were perpetrated by any of these people, I hope they are held accountable.

Look. If we REALLY knew ALL the dirt on our leaders, we would have no leaders…

Leaders are trash though. Expose them all—take them all down. Idgaf.

Although if you learn one thing by studying both historical and contemporary politics it’s that people will excuse virtually anything a leader does as long as they say the right things and piss the right people off.

If I’m not mistaken, and I could well be, wasn’t Bill Gates hanging out with Epstein a reason that Gates wife wanted a divorce?

It WILL suck, because I’m sure there actually were a few people that probably were/are completely innocent.
But.
We have to accept ALL names, as being a person who needs to be investigated.
Can you imagine if YOU’RE (whomever reads this) name is on the list, and you KNOW you did nothing wrong and knew nothing?

I will admit that there were times when I worked private security, when some of the people I was supposed to be keeping safe is a criminal. It’s…. part of being around rich/powerful or famous people (from my experience,) to have ro sort of help conceal some things. The lines blur greatly, depending on what the client is doing. I only worked with like a dozen or so places or people, where illegal activities were going on. However. That conflicted with my job of protecting them. Honestly. Some rich people have executive protection because they ARE a rich, (legal/rich criminal) person that breaks laws.
I found out on my first assignment, I would have to ignore drug use, and some other things I should not.
It’s how things are around really powerful people. Everyone knows SOMETHING is going on illegal, when working for them. Drivers. Cooks. Serving staff. Everyone…
But you can’t say anything about it.
I have not, to my knowledge, allowed domestic violence, or anything to do with kids.

Looking back, I regret to say I probably should have never even taken on certain people. I needed a job. I needed to keep my job. Having a reputation for arresting my clients, seemed like poor a business decision.

I can understand why people didn’t say anything. They were afraid.

People with power, can go power crazy, or something.
Caligula comes to mind, as an example of what powerful people will arrange.
Does anyone think that nobody hated Caligula, and everything he did? No. Only other politicians can usurp such scum…

@seawulf575 seems to have at least conceded that Trump is worthy of scrutiny @LadyMarissa . Although it may not have been what you wanted.

The truth is that SO many people are accountable. Perhaps society itself is really to blame. Someone found the girls.
The girls probably had a provided gyno. Pilots. Boat captains. Crew. Goons. That island was like an old plantation. There were likely hundreds of people, or more who knew that island was as shady as an Oak tree.

@chyna I think I heard that too.
I was disappointed in Gates. He and his wife gave so much to charity. Good for his wife.
But… It doesn’t shock me that he’s on the list.

The list, is how I know it’s a trap. These people already assassinated a man in a solitary cell, with a personal guard, IN JAIL/PRISON!
No. People don’t snitch on powerful people…unless they have to talk for a legal reason.

In an article I just read in the NYT, it said that flight records show trump flew on Epsteins plane 7 times and 2 more times while with family members.
Bill Clinton was said to have flown about 50 times. Although the girl in the picture with Prince Andrew said she met Clinton at Epstein’s private island where all the underage sex supposedly happened, none of the flight logs show Clinton flew there.
Unless there are pictures or videos, I don’t see how names are relevant.

@chyna If the girl in the photo is Virginia Giuffre, the article I cut and pasted (above) said that she has never said she was with Cllinton.

I saw an interview she did on one of the news shows (like 20/20 or one of those) and I think it was her interview and testimony that is what brought Prince Andrew out of the good graces of the Queen and the royal family.

@jca2 In the article I read in the New York Post (sorry, I said NYT above, which was wrong) written by Reuven Fenton and Alex Oliveira, it states “Giuffre has alleged she met Clinton on Epstein’s private Caribbean Island.” I don’t know if she said that or not.

I would think it’s hard to know who to believe.

There will certainly be some John Doe’s word against Jane Doe’s…

@chyna Oh, ok. I’ll read the Post one. A family member just sent me this article, saying that Epstein told his brother that he had such incendiary information on both Trump and The Clintons that if it were released, the 2016 election never would have happened with Trump vs Clinton. I haven’t read this one but here’s the link:

https://nypost.com/2024/01/03/news/jeffrey-epsteins-dirt-on-trump-and-clinton-would-ruin-both-brother/

@chyna Hahaha the article I linked is the one you’re referring to. I’m going to read it.

JFC.
Who do we believe, sex workers or our politicians?

Character concerns abound.

I guess we go with the Jane Doe’s. I mean some were sex slaves.
It’s gonna be like an old witch trial.

@MrGrimm888 Some of these girls were 14 years old, so they weren’t like seasoned prostitutes. They were victims of pedophiles.

^OH I know. I just know how some attorneys think.

A victim sometimes has to go through some rough times, in these crimes. It’s embarrassing, and traumatic. Even if they just talk to investigators.

I have to ask (hypothetically,) if Trump is on the list is it beneath him to target his accusers?

Some powerful people will be on that list. Nothing is completely off the table.

@MrGrimm888 asks who I would believe, the sex worker girls or the politicians…

The girls, obviously. Not even a close question. They’re far more likely to want to earn an honest buck.

I think it’s also rude to paint all sex workers with aa negative brush. Doing sex work does not make you stupid.

Being named in the released docs does not implicate anyone in crimes.

Both Trump and Clinton associated with Epstein and are mentioned in the depositions But nobody has accused either one of partaking in the molestation of teens.

Epstein associated with EVERYBODY. Prince Andrew was involved in the crimes. But his ex Fergie and daughters, Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie also visited the island. Do you think they should be prosecuted?

Giuffre has alleged she met Clinton on Epstein’s private Caribbean Island

And she did not say he had sex with her or anyone else.

Another plaintiff says she was with an Epstein entourage that stopped to visit Trump in Atlantic City at one of his casinos. And she did not say Trump had sex with anybody.

It’s going to be extremely tiresome listening to the dumb and dishonest and shameless yammering of people equating knowing Epstein makes someone a child-molester.

The crimes of Epstein and those who DID participate are sickening. I am not in the least downplaying them.

@MrGrimm888 According to the NY Times, the minor victims’ names won’t be revealed.

Here are the documents I found that were released on this. I didn’t see any flight logs, just lots of depositions, emails, and court filings. You can sift through the 943 pages as you like, but it doesn’t tell a lot. There are some telling things in there like an email from Epstein to someone telling them to let friends and family of Virginia Guffre that there is a reward if they will come forward to testify against her or to discredit her testimony. Seems like a slimy thing to do, but then I think we can all agree Epstein was slime.

Oops! Here are the flight logs

Being a sex worker does not make one “immoral” either.

I just did a rapid scroll through the flight logs – I don’t know a single person in the logs personally. Whew!

One thing I do not believe tho,is that some didn’t “know.” I call bullshit.

For background, I recommend the documentary about Jeffrey Epstein. I saw it about two years ago, streaming somewhere. It fills in how he got the girls, where the girls were from, etc.

I NEVER once said anything about sex workers being immoral.
So the Karens can recoil…

I’m not getting pulled into an argument about something that I didn’t say, or because people cannot comprehend how real life works. The fact that some jellies WANT to be offended by things, instead of discussing clarity or explanation of view points is quite disappointing.

Back to the rails. @seawulf575 the site might be down/overused. I couldn’t read your list link…

@jca2 I referred to the minors as “Jane Doe.” Although I should have been more specific.

I was talking about having to talk to investigators, mainly.
The victims were underage, at the time. They are legal now. I thought that at least one girl had her name made public, and was trying to spill all the beans. I don’t have a clue how they are going to deal with such a large scale investigation and the sheer number of VERY important people who may be implicated.

It’s actually such a mess, I’m concerned that they may try to just sweep the whole thing away.
Epstein would have been a great witness. But I guess someone already knew that.

@MrGrimm888 You may be thinking of Virginia Giuffre, the one who said she was with Prince Andrew. She came forward voluntarily.

I’m surprised Ghislaine Maxwell is still alive. I guess they’re watching her cell carefully so there’s no funny business like there was with Jeffrey Epstein.

Wow! I wasn’t even talking to you @MrGrimm888! I was just making a general observation.

^I did NOT utter any names…
Can we please just move on?

@jca2 Yes. That name rings a bell.

I don’t know why Maxwell is alive either…

@MrGrimm888 Which link? The court documents or the flight logs? The court documents seem to take a bit to load up, but did work for me again. The flight logs fired right up. I found the court documents on a link in an article from OAN. Many jellies get up in arms about sites like OAN, so I went right to the source document and posted that in the original link. This article (in this post) has the link to the court documents in it.

^It works now. It had a we’re really busy right now screen before.

Ok. Well. I have now heard Jimmy Kimmel and Whoopi Goldberg respond to rumors they were on the list.

I guess Aaron Rogers of all people, made the allegations about Kimmel. Talk about sources…

Why did I think it was going to be a smaller list? I see 117 pages of fine print. Wow…

Ya know. I hate to bring this up, but it was an island. There is absolutely no way to know about boat/yacht traffic…

In the Caribbean, lots of people move from island to island. They can do this without telling anyone. In fact it’s usually practiced by people who make enemies. Sharks. They can’t stop moving, or they’ll die.

I read earlier today that one of the girl’s said she met Bill, but later changed her story. The article mentioned something similar about some prince…

That’s not good.

The flight logs cover the dates of 1996 to 2016. And each line is a person that was on a flight. If Epstein flew with Maxwell, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, and 3 girls, that flight would have 7 lines on the list. It’s a bit confusing and difficult to dig out information on. You can do a search for names, but that doesn’t capture everyone.

As you mention, boat/yacht traffic is there, private planes bringing their owners is another. The court documents cover more and tell an interesting story, but there are 943 pages of that nonsense and it is very difficult to get information out. Again, you can search names if you like, but the complete documents are not there. Mainly police investigation notes and depositions of witnesses.

If you read some of the transcripts they tell a story of threats and intimidation being used against people that might come forward and testify against Epstein or his posse.

^You know me Wulf. I think everyone in DC is on the list.~

I was only curious what the list was. I also, unfortunately, see some potential problems starting investigations with just this evidence.

There’s just got to be a vault somewhere, or a thumb drive, that’s worth killing almost anyone over.

They use “puddle jumpers” (2–4 passenger seaplanes) a lot in the islands too. They’re shady, but they can apparently elude FAA, to an extent. I knew about them, when I used to visit the islands. I just didn’t trust them. I went to like 5 different islands once, in like a day. We took jet skis. They called them “bikes.” And this would be the only record of it ever happening.

I was fairly certain I’d eventually get robbed or killed, but it was just sketchy AF…

It did occur to me that if I weren’t a big healthy guy at the time, things might have been worse.

Those islands are full of places that are like an old speakeasy. Hell, I got weed from a Police officer once down there. Well. They were dressed like a police person. (It was a female.)

As beautiful as they are, those islands are plagued with disease, drugs, corruption, human trafficking, and drug/violent crimes. Plenty of smuggling of all types.

The human trafficking thing is why this shouldn’t be allowed to slide. I’d like to know the reason the operation went on as long as it did, and exactly who did what.

As I stated earlier, there are many levels of people who had to be involved in this. It takes logistics and armies of people to support such things. Most will strategically retreat, if pressed on what they know.
I wouldn’t testify, if I was just some amateur smuggler, or pilot.

If y’all have Netflix, it’s “Jeffrey Epstein: Filthy Rich” that’s the documentary that talks about how he committed his crimes. It’s a multi-part documentary. It also talks about him personally – his possessions, his work, how he got all that money with being a high school dropout.

^I couldn’t stomach Game of Thrones. Everyone told me how great it was, and what I was missing.
Started watching it after my transplant.
Too much rape culture, for me.
It also had me questioning all of my friends that loved the show…

Stuff like that just galvanizes my understanding of humanity…

@MrGrimm888 You are probably right about most of DC being on the list. Those that aren’t are likely on some other list.

And I believe there is more evidence hidden somewhere. Probably videos or pictures. I suspect Epstein was gathering blackmail materials on all these people. That was the part of the entire Epstein case that was shady in my book. They got him on human trafficking and conspiracy, but with all the underaged girls he was bringing in, they got zero people on having sex with them….statutory rape in many places. That smacks of the prosecution being controlled on who they could bring in on what charges (i.e. cover up).

^With the people that may be involved, I see opportunities for a cover up, assassination, witness tampering, witness killing (too late.)

I know that I am a paranoid, catastrophic thinker, but I knew Epstein would NEVER live through prison. If the powers that be really cared about uncovering the truth about all of this why didn’t they protect him better? The answer, seems obvious…

@MrGrimm888 But wait! Epstein killed himself, didn’t he? And several cameras all stopped working for a short period of time and a couple guards nodded off at the exact same time. If you believe he was murdered then you have to assume the official story was false. That would mean the ME was on the take, the prison was in on it, and the media wasn’t curious enough to really dig into the unusual events and their timing. Careful…you might be a conspiracy theorist!

Suicide? Let’s just say it was Prison Justice.

@seawulf575. I think I’m so deep, I don’t even call it conspiracy. It’s fact…

Just because you don’t see radiation, doesn’t mean it’s not there. (Nuclear analogy.)

I think it must have been another inmate. If he was a pro, there wouldn’t be fractured vertebrae.

Yeah. Just like I was saying about the people who ran “his” island, a lot of people had to look the other way…

I don’t make the rules. I knw some of of them though, and sometimes the obvious is exactly that.
The sheer number of coincidences for Epstein to be found with his neck broken (in those circumstances,) to me, leads to only one logical hypothesis.
Yes. Conspiracy. Murder most fowl, of a most fowl man…

If they lean super hard on the guards in the facility, someone will cave. Then, either more suicides, or maybe they don’t take their eyes off the guy that roles…

I was never an interrogator, but I had to have some understanding of how things work. They can lie to people, to illicit a desired response. They can get someone to snitch. I guarantee at least one dumbass wants to tell, so they can write a book or profit from it.

We’ll see, moving forward, if there is any realistic effort to hunt all the trails down…