What constitutes hoarding?

I th8nk “justification” is an inappropriate term, here, as it implies motivation that is governed strictly by choice. Hoarding is more of a compulsion, driven by the fear that something may not always be available.

I think holding is when the accumulation of possessions begins to interfere with a person’s ability to function in daily life (or something like that). As far as “justification,” I agree with @canidmajor that the word implies certain underlying assumptions that may not be accurate. I have heard that hoarding often manifests for some people in their 40’s and 50’s. What happens is their parents pass away and suddenly they have to manage all of the possessions of their parents, while grieving and EVERYTHING feels sentimental to them, but it’s too much to handle so they just keep everything with the sincere intention of decluttering later. Of course life happens and they end up getting totally overwhelmed, have to deal with the day-to-day and never get around to the difficult/emotional/time consuming process of going through everything. Then more stuff comes in over time and it becomes so unmanageable that they give up.

For some people, they have a compulsion to acquire things that they perceive as a good value. others have good intentions but not enough time to get them done. For some, throwing something away that you had an intention of doing feels like an acceptance of failure, or the killing of a dream you had. Maybe you acquired a bunch of X that you intended to make into a beautiful Y. Throwing away X means admitting to yourself that you will never do Y. It feels like a loss, the end of a possibility.

It’s an interesting question. I don’t know if anybody else watches the show Hoarders, and I’ve really only seen episodes on YouTube, but it is really sad to see some of these people’s homes where they have let things pile up so much that they can barely walk through their house. And when they have somebody come in and try to help them get it cleaned up, for a lot of these people, they can’t deal with throwing it away. And it could be anything! Sure, it could be something more useful that you plan to do something with one day, but it could also just be a bunch of old newspapers. Sometime, do a search on YouTube about hoarders and watch some of these episodes and you’ll realize that it really is a type of sickness.

Then there’s a more regular sort of hoarding and I think a lot more people do that in one way or another. I have tons of books, and even after I’ve read them, I don’t want to get rid of them because I’m always worried that I’ll want to go back and read them again sometime in the future, but at least they are all on bookshelves and I’m not tripping on them as I walk around my apartment.

For some people, there does seem to be a fear of running out of stuff. I look at my part of the world, when they’re calling for snow, and all of a sudden people have to go and buy up all the toilet paper or all the bread, because they’re afraid that they might need it and not have it. That happened during covid too.

I’ve gotten more into Diamond art or gem painting (if you’re familiar with that), and I belong to a couple groups on Facebook. Now I have a couple of kits here and there that I was either given, or I bought because it was a really good sale, or because I’m going to make a lot of them for a craft show I have coming up in the spring. But there are some people in these groups that must have 50 or 60 of these big projects piled up in their closets, which they take pictures of and share with people in the groups. And I have to wonder, what is the point of buying up that many kits well before you’ll be able to make them? Do you seriously think that all of a sudden you’re going to wake up tomorrow and there will be no more of these kits available to buy, especially as popular as it is right now?
You can only really work on one at a time, although there are a few people that have a couple big projects going at the same time because they have the space in their home to do so.

So I think for some people it is a sickness having to do with compulsion, and for some other people it’s not to that extent but it’s still something that motivates them to keep buying stuff long before they will need it.

It could be a fear of loss of control…?

It’s definitely a genuine psychological disorder, and from what I’ve seen, it always comes about as a result of trauma/s. The trauma may or may not have to do with what’s being hoarded.

Maybe a family had to move unexpectedly and had to get rid of a lot of a child’s toys. As an adult, that trauma may be triggered by the death of someone, and the person begins buying dolls and saves hundreds of them. It’s quite possible that they don’t even connect the loss of the toys and the buying of the dolls until/unless a psychologist intervenes.

They sometimes know that their collections are unusual in their extent, other times it may seem perfectly alright to have thousands of objects. They do usually know that it’s not good to have maggots and roaches in the kitchen or a toilet too full to flush, but can’t do anything about it or don’t know how to begin; it’s just so overwhelming. That’s the illness.

It’s such a sad diagnosis. I’ve watched a lot of episodes on tv and many times they bring me to tears.

**I was just looking up Robert Dielmann whose episode I just watched last week. The episode was from 2 years ago. It turns out that the 88 year old died on Jan. 15th of this year. He was an amazing artist who restored a Victorian mansion built in 1873 in St Louis, and was a hoarder. He did hoard trash in his kitchen (about 2 feet of it on the floor in layers built up over 20 years), but throughout the mansion he also had furniture and art from the 1700s. He was a sculptor, fine artist and designed and made stained glass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etWasDQUDAE

Hoarders tend to have a lot of emotions attached to their things. Some hoarders I know were fairly neglected as children, but I don’t think that is always the case. They might not even notice the mess.

Some people are compulsive shoppers, but that’s not always the case.

Anyone over the age of 45 who liked to read a lot or did a lot of research for hobby or work likely has a lot of papers and books stacked up in their house. Is that hoarding? I know people who would say yes, but try to talk to them about a very complicated topic, most of them won’t know anything in depth, but they will judge the people who have the paper “mess.”

I think like anything there are multiple reasons for it.

I have one bedroom in my house that looks like a hoarder (in my opinion) because we went from 4,000 sq ft to 2,000 and we still want to go back to a bigger house, about 3,000. We did get rid of a lot, but not enough to make the smaller house really look organized and neat. It’s not dirty, but we still have quite a lot of items in boxes. In my bigger house I looked like a neatnik. I actually hate that my house has a room with boxes in it. If I bought some shelving I guess I could get it all out of boxes.

I’ve read that doctors say it a form of OCD. The Mayo Clinic‘s point of view.

@LadyMarissa good catch . . . it is some kind of compulsive disorder in my opinion.

My husband is kind of a hoarder and it drives me nuts! His excuse is “I might need it some day.”
As a result we have tools and bolts and screws and misc stuff he buys at garage sales…2 or 3 of everything…just piled on the floor in the utility room and crap in other rooms.
He can never find what he’s looking for.
Still putting this new house together though. I’ll get it under control.

When I hired a professional organizer she told me there are two types of people. One type likes everything put away a d the other likes everything out where they can see it. I think one trait of a lot of hoarders is the latter to an extreme. Afraid of putting things away and not seeing those things again or not finding it again.

I have a lot of stuff but I definitely like it organized. All the crafts stuff organized, and then I can see what I have and how much of each thing I have, all the hair stuff organized, and then I can see what I have and how much of each thing I have, all the soap and toothpaste organized, and then I can see what I have and how much of each thing I have, etc.

I was just talking to a good friend tonight, who is moving and is talking about whether to bring a chest or a certain blanket that she made. I was talking about something I got rid of when Imoved, that i wish I still had, and it makes me say “keep the chest and keep the blanket.”

@JLeslie A pretty standard symptom of ADHD is something called Object Permanence. If things are not in sight,you tend to forget that you have them at all.

@canidmajor That makes sense, but I don’t think that’s always the case, but I believe it is probably sometimes the case.

I don’t think I fall into the ADHD category, but I like things in sight and I also like them organized, but I was raised in a very disorganized house, so I needed to be taught how to do it efficiently. It’s not that I forget I have it, it’s more being concerned about finding it again, snd I simply like to see everything. I relate it to map reading. Some people turn on their GPS and follow blindly, I first need to see the whole route, and even while driving I often want to expand the map to see all of it, not just the half mile in front of me.

The answer for me is closets and furniture with doors, and I don’t buy much in the first place.

Constantly there are things in the boxes that I want. They are not out of sight out of mind.

About half the original boxes I moved with I have gotten rid of. Amazing how much we accumulate. I have given a lot away in the Buy Nothing Facebook Group where I live. The group is extremely active here.

A few years ago I happened onto the ClutterBug youtubes with the 4 organizing styles and that spoke to me. https://www.createroom.com/blogs/news/knowing-your-organizing-style-can-change-your-life-heres-how#:~:text=The%20ClutterBug%20Philosophy%20is%20founded,with%20visual%20and%20practical%20organization. The main thing is what the professional organizer told me many many years ago, I need a place for everything.

Hoarders may be organized to begin with. They just end up with so much stuff there’s no place to put it all. Imagine a room with stuff piled on stuff literally up to within a foot of the ceiling, walking through rooms on a small trail a foot deep with stuff, not being able to walk into a room at all, or having to climb over their stuff to get into a room. They can’t see what they have and don’t care. They have the comfort of knowing it’s there somewhere.

@Dutchess_III It sounds like your husband is a collector rather than a hoarder.

@smudges….I’m sure those 50 million screws will.make us rich some day!
I sense a deep tension in him when I suggest we remove virtually anything, screws to bolts to random pieces of wood. This been in our “living room” for 2.5 years.

^^ Is there a place that you could move his stuff without getting rid of anything and where he could still see it? How about the garage? or a different room?

I feel for you; I would want my living room back!

Well this house is undergoing remodeling so crap is everywhere. At our old house I made him keep his crap in his bedroom and the upstairs bathroom.
I’m currently trying to organize the utility room to field crap. I also bought a shed for the back yard over a year ago. He has yet to put it together.
Oh! You should have seen our garage at the old house! You couldn’t open the door without a landslide!
I think he’s ADD. May be ADHD when he was younger. Could that explain it?

I found this, but there are over 14 symptoms symptoms. Having 1 or 2 wouldn’t be a diagnosis.

“Yes, difficulty in organizing and prioritizing tasks is one of the symptoms of ADHD. People with ADHD may have trouble keeping track of their belongings and may find it challenging to organize their thoughts and manage their schedule. They may also struggle with planning and prioritizing the order of tasks that they’re supposed to do, which can make it hard to meet deadlines. However, it’s important to note that having a cluttered space or keeping lots of things is not necessarily a symptom of ADHD. It could be a sign of other conditions or just a personal preference.”

https://psychcentral.com/adhd/subtle-signs-you-may-have-adult-adhd

I imagine that would apply to folks with just ADD, too.

He does not like planning.

People our age (60s) with ADHD (like me) are very unlikely to have been diagnosed, we just muddle along without benefit of good advice or even compassion. I am very messy and often vilified for that, even though I mostly know where everything is. My surfaces have stuff on them, the floor mostly doesn’t. I always hesitate to use the word “hoarding” in most cases, as it nowadays denotes someone with serious mental issues. Most of us with too much stuff who are also messy are just a bit neuro-divergent, not mentally ill.
I personally believe that “neuro-typical” is a pretty shallow bump in a vey long bell curve.

I agree @canidmajor. “Hoarding” probably isn’t the right word for my husband.

@canidmajor I have ADHD also, and was diagnosed in my mid-40s. I was curious about diagnosing it since you mentioned it. Here’s what I found if you’re interested:

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/4784-attention-deficithyperactivity-disorder-adhd

I found these sections especially interesting.

What causes ADHD?
Are there advantages to having ADHD?

Now WHY would they lable.kids who have ADD, but show no signs of hyperactivity, as ADHD anyway?

@smudges Thanks for that link.

And how can they table any 2 year old as ADHD? ADHD is the nature of a 2 year old! And it’s at the age of 2 that they most often get labeled (so I was told in the early childhood development portion of my degree in education.)

@smudges Thanks for the link! As I rush up on 70, I have managed to cope pretty well, and am actually grateful that all those years ago they didn’t diagnose such things, my mother would have tried to hide it and would have medicated me into a near coma. Ugh. Finding out about it later in life has been a relief, though, it explains so much!!

@Dutchess_III From the link: ” ADD vs. ADHD
Providers used to call the inattentive presentation type of ADHD “attention-deficit disorder (ADD).” In 1994, the American Psychiatric Association officially changed its name. Providers now call all forms of ADHD “attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder” whether or not symptoms of hyperactivity are present. As described above, providers diagnose the different types based on the symptoms.

Although the name change happened decades ago, many people still refer to the condition as attention-deficit disorder (ADD). The difference between ADD and ADHD is the former doesn’t include symptoms of hyperactivity or impulsivity.”

I read the whole article @canidmajor, and my question still stands. In fact, the article prompted the question.

@Dutchess_III when a child is evaluated by Special Ed, it’s often done by a team, and in various settings (classroom setting, maybe at home, etc.). I had my daughter evaluated for speech several times and it’s done by a speech therapist and a psychologist, so they can determine if it’s something mouth related or something learning related, or both, or something else (just an example). I had her evaluated when she was in early elementary school, and in the report, they talked about observing her in the classroom (without her realizing she was being observed), and it also involved her seeing the therapist in the therapist’s room, so she was alone.

Also, with all due respect, when you went to school for early childhood education it was likely decades ago, so things have changed and evolved since then, in relation to this topic. What you learned has likely changed, and may or may not be relevant today.

@Dutchess_III Oh, OK. I didn’t see it from that perspective. :-)

Some school districts over diagnose children as ADHD. It’s well documented.

Some boy moms especially take issue with expecting young boys to sit still for long hours in school at very young ages, and push back on diagnosing their sons, and especially on any medication.

I remember years ago my dad going over a research proposal for ADHD drugs and incorrect diagnosis being a cause for why the drugs weren’t working well. One thought was some of the children might actually be bipolar.

I also know cases of very children who literally want to take their pill so they feel better. Some kids and older people hate taking medication for their ADHD.

The science continues to evolve.

That really didn’t answer my question @jca2. Unless they diagnosed her with speech issue that she didn’t have.

It’s common sense, decades aside.

@Dutchess_III I said in my comment “just an example” to illustrate that I was giving an example of what methods they use to evaluate children (multi-disciplinary). So it’s not just one person’s opinion about what issues the child may have, it’s a team approach.

@JLeslie Also parents give the kids all kinds of sugary crap, and then expect them to sit still.

What does it matter if 1 person or 5 give the wrong diagnosis @jca2?

Also, “sugar high” is a myth.

@jca2 NY might be much better than other states.

I think they’re over quick to diagnose kids with problems that require some sort of sedation. I suppose it makes the.home life and school life easier on the providers.

@Dutchess_III I think you are missing my point about the multi-disciplinary evaluation. I’m saying there is less likely chance of an incorrect diagnosis when there are several doing the evaluation.

As for sedation, there’s a big pushback now against medicating children. None of my friends have medicated their children for behavior issues, except maybe one who has several kids that were foster kids (and therefore more likely chance of childhood trauma and issues from neglect).

I’m glad to hear they’re backing off of sedatives finally. I’m sure the drugs made the kids easier to “deal with” and that’s why they were so prevalent. Like in retirement homes.

I still take issue with the fact that they automatically add the hyperactivity” lable to any kid labeled ADD, whether they display hyperactivity traits or not
Lables affect how people react to kids.
God I hate lables.

^^I agree about adding the hyperactivity. I didn’t even know that was being done until I read the article on this Q.

The meds for ADHD aren’t sedatives. They help a person with ADHD focus; use in someone without ADHD they would experience euphoria.