If Biden loses in November, what will you blame?

So you’re saying it’s Bidens to lose not Trumps to win?

If Biden loses, it will be entirely because of the DNC, and the cause of this will go back to when they sabotaged the nomination of Sanders in 2020, by getting everyone to drop out and throw their weight behind shouty senile Uncle Joe, because he was the only “electable” one, despite objectively polling worse.

I can’t really hold Biden responsible, as he doesn’t look like he even knows where he is half the time.

The election is still basically a coin flip and Biden could still scrape through.

-That Biden didn’t step aside.
-Young people who didn’t vote at all.
-The Democrats for not paying attention to Florida. We should have a Stacey Abrahms helping our Black population and a Latin American Stacey Abrahams talking to the Latin Americans in FL about why they should be voting for Democrats and how to register and how and where to vote. The Hispanic population here is 27%! The Black population is 17%. Other states similar to FL we should be doing the same. The media makes it sound like FL is like TN demographically and politically and it absolutely is not. Florida can still be a close call.
-Media constantly giving Trump so much air time since 2016.
-I blame Biden’s team and the media for not promoting the good things he has done that everyone can agree on like lower priced for insulin, I wish it was much more than just insulin.

People who voted for Trump.

@Kropotkin What about the Sanders supporters who wouldn’t vote for Hillary or Biden in the end. You don’t see those no-voters or third party voters as a problem?

@Kropotkin Nailed it. This is the DNC’s creation. They’d prefer Trump than risk a progressive coming in and eliminating the corruption (i.e. them). The DNC invented the idea of Jan. 6th before it was “cool.”

Tribalism.
Stupidity.
White male supremacy as a cultural theme.
Greed of ultra-rich, and their mega-corporations, especially the media mega-corporations.
Domination of politics by two mega-corporate influenced parties.
The dumber-than-dirt “first past the post” voting system.
Gerrymandering.
Russian manipulation.

@JLeslie In a liberal democracy, it is conventionally the role of politicians to convince enough of the electorate to vote for them.

Those eligible to vote aren’t obliged to vote for the candidate that someone might deem preferable.

If it were up to me, I’d like to see vastly more non-voters and third-party voters. It isn’t up to me.

Mass stupidity. I’m an equal opportunity blamer.

I like @Zaku answer the best.

Agree with Caravanfan. Trump supporters.

The answer is of course a bit of everything, but mostly the people deciding to cast their vote for a convicted felon, fraud, and rapist.

I’ll blame apathy of Americans who either don’t know they have a country or they do know but just don’t give a shit.

I will blame Americans who are enamored with an ugly and dangerous sociopathic clown asshole.

The obstinacy of Biden and the DNC in sticking to policies that people don’t like.

Continually trying to gaslight people into believing his policies are working.

@seawulf575 Good one. ^^^

@Kropotkin I agree that no one is obligated to vote for a candidate they don’t like. Additionally, in the US they are not obligated to vote at all and I support that. If they don’t show up to vote for the candidate they do like that is something else and one of the problems that I mentioned.

I also agree with @Caravanfan.

In the last four years I went from being a dedicated Bernie supporter who ended up voting for Biden because I felt it was the right thing to do, even though he was last on my list of Democratic nominees, to now being one of the very few Flutherites who openly supports Biden. Yes, I’d prefer someone younger, but that isn’t going to happen this year.

I blame two things – Biden and the DNC. Biden should have stepped down and not run a second time. The DNC, if Biden didn’t step down after his first four years, should have told him “you’re done” and put in someone else to run vs. Trump. You mean to tell me with all the Democratic politicians in the US, the best we have is Biden?

Polls have been showing Americans are apathetic about Biden. Can’t we have a candidate that people are excited about, someone younger, not “vote for this guy because the other guy is so awful?”

Some of my friends are trying their best to be gung ho about Biden, and saying if Biden wants to run, nobody can stop him, but that’s the problem. They should have stopped him. Nobody would blame a person who is so old if he said he didn’t want to run again because he wants to spend more time with his family. It would be totally understandable. Is Biden even going to be around in four and a half years (after getting through 2024 and then four years of a new term)? He can barely get through this term. To me, he didn’t do anything awful, he’s just too old. He can barely put two sentences together. If something happens to Biden, then we have Harris, who, to me, is not that impressive.

I don’t hate Biden, and I voted for him last time and I’m definitely not voting for Trump, so I feel like I’m kind of at a loss. Friends say “vote for Biden and save democracy.” Biden should have not ran a second time to save democracy. I feel like there’s a good chance Trump will win and I blame Biden and the DNC. If we didn’t have Biden, we might have a better candidate. According to a NY Times opinion piece from a week or two ago, there are other politicians who poll better vs. Trump than Biden does.

I understand a lot of people on Fluther don’t agree with my dislike of Biden.

@JLeslie It’s a problem for the politician wanting to get elected for sure.

You mentioned Hillary, and I just remembered the insane pied piper strategy the DNC conducted for the 2016 election which gave Trump over $4,000,000,000 worth of media exposure to help him get nominated.

This is why we need AI agents to act as politicians. They could operate in a simulated sandbox congress and senate in case they try to enact something stupid.

@jonsblond Oh, I openly support Biden, you’re not the only one.

@Kropotkin The media exposure for Trump was ridiculous! The Democrats kept talking about him and it gave him legitimacy not the opposite. We agree.

The powers at be in the DNC and media also wanted Obama and helped to crucify Hillary. Then when the media wanted Hillary, they had forgotten they had strung her up in the wind 8 years before. Hell, much of the media and definitely “left wing” social media they continued to HATE on her wanting Bernie. Hate is in caps on purpose because it was vicious how they went after her.

A very close friend of mine voted for Trump in 2016, she’s a Democrat, because ”Hillary was so horrible.” Really? She is an MSW and in 2020 she clued in saying “Trump is a narcissist.” How did she miss that in 2016 I’m not sure, except that her Husband liked Trump too, so that probably had some influence.

@jca2 vote for Biden and save democracy

Yeah, I hear that kind of rhetoric a lot. I have to question why democracy seems to need saving every four years. Seems to be an awfully unstable system.

You cry wolf enough and eventually people are just going to tune it out.

I don’t play the blame game!!! I won’t be happy if 45 becomes 47, but I won’t blame it on anything!!!

My feeling is I voted for Biden last time because there wasn’t a better choice, but I’m not doing it again. I may not vote, I’m not sure. I’m definitely not voting for RFK, especially because he has a worm in his brain, and I am not planning to vote for Biden and I’m definitely not voting for Trump, so I feel like I’m against a wall.

@jca2 ~You can always vote for Vermin Supreme. Every one gets a pony if he is elected.

@Caravanfan that’s good to know.

@jca2 I believe we’ll be done with only white men in their 80s as choices after this presidential election. We just need to tough it out another four years, or less if Biden is elected. Kamala could easily take his place if needed.

Why is Biden to old , and Trump is not?
I don’t get it?
Last few weeks Trump is showing more signs of dementia then Biden has, but people are still groaning Biden is so old
The Don Father is just a few years younger.

@SQUEEKY2 Trump is definitely an asshole and not Presidential material, in my opnion, but as far as age goes (and he’s definitely close to Biden in age), Trump seems more sturdy and speaks with more power. Biden speaks in a whisper, and he seems daft.

@jca2 Biden has had a speech impediment his whole life,so talking slow and soft might have a lot to do with that.
Lately Trump has been showing more signs of dementia than Biden has.

@jca2 a sociopathic asshole mentally declining would always sound healthier than the one who isn’t an asshole and simply aging at that particular age.

@jca2 I know another New Yorker who might not vote or do a write in as a protest vote, but they are risking it because they feel confident NY will go for Biden anyway. They wouldn’t do it if they lived in MI or PA, because it will likely be close in those states. Is that where you are at? If you were in a swing state would you feel more compelled to vote? She thinks there is a good chance a lot of New Yorkers might do the same. I don’t mean a million, but maybe a few thousand.

@jca2 i respectfully disagree with your assessment of Biden. He’s slowing down but his mindset is there. I’m dealing with the same thing with my 89 year old father. He’s still sharp and smart but it takes time for him to voice his thoughts. That doesn’t mean his mental health is declining.

@JLeslie ””Hillary was so horrible.” Really?”

Yes. She (successfully) January sixthed the DNC and installed party leaders that continue the process today. The DNC has replaced democracy with monarchy. In the alternative universe where Hillary was tragically killed by a freak political sign accident as she was trying to help elect Goldwater, there would have been no Trump; no MAGA. The Democratic Party might have stood a chance of fighting climate and reversing Reaganomics instead of a cesspool of corrupt psychopaths whose primary function is to prevent change and to aid and abet Republicans in transferring the wealth from the bottom 95% to the top 0.001%. Their genius idea to reach youth voters is to hire a fucking Meme Lord instead of campaigning on policies that young people care about.

The tragic thing is that they’re preventing young progressives from getting established and gaining political experience so they won’t have the opportunity to run in 8 years from now. It’s Neoliberals and MAGA psychos until the whole fucking thing burns down. Nice fucking work Hillary (though Obama fucked us all too by giving us Romneycare instead of what he was elected to do).

Our best chance is a 3rd party (and I realize how small of a chance that is). Maybe it’s going to take Trump winning twice for people to wake the fuck up and realize how big of a problem the DNC is, to look in the fucking mirror and realize that they were blaming Jill Stein instead of fighting for rank-choice-voting, or at the very least opposing the DNC’s efforts to fight against rank-choice-voting.

@gorillapaws You blame Hillary for us winding up with Trump? Sorry no, I don’t accept that. I’m fine with you not liking her or not liking her policy, but I don’t accept that she is to blame for the election of Trump.

I’m pretty sure I’m in favor of rank choice voting, from what I understand about it.

You are unrealistic about a third party with how the system is set up now. I’d like third party to be a real possibility too. It’s not. Or, maybe you are realistic, you did say you know it’s a small chance.

You say policies young people care about. What are they and will they vote? The only time I know of in history that young people turned out to vote in large numbers was to prevent being drafted into a war.

@JLeslie “You blame Hillary for us winding up with Trump?”

I blame Hillary for architecting a corrupt DNC which NOT ONLY elected Trump, but WILL KEEP ELECTING Trumps until something strong enough to break through the corruption happens. She helped metastasize the culture of corruption in the party to the point that it may never be recoverable. She sent the fucking thing into a death spiral.

^^Ultimately, I blame the US population for electing Trump. So many people so easily manipulated and duped by propaganda. Whether the manipulation was the fault of Hillary, Fox, MSNBC, Russia, China, QAnon, still it is all manipulation and people rather believe memes than what is actually happening in real life.

@JLeslie My friend who loves Biden and is nervously watching the polls told me if I don’t vote, it won’t matter in NY because it’s a blue state anyway. Also, from what I understand, it wouldn’t matter anyway since the popular vote doesn’t count (as when Hilary ran and lost but won the popular vote).

@jca2 The popular vote matters within each state. It matters because it means s how the electors decide to vote. It also matters because conclusions are drawn by the parties and the media for where the people are at politically, if the state is shifting. Florida was purple according to the media for several elections, and now they only call it red.

To me it’s issue based voting, and by far the most important issue to me is women, trans, and gay equality highlighted with the Republican’s crusade to force women, under threat of imprisonment and fines, to have birth against their will. I see anybody placing a vote that enables the Republicans to win is someone who hates women.

So yes, go Biden and fuck Trump and the rest of those fucking fucks.

Sorry, but anyone who thinks Biden isn’t barely lucid is huffing major copium:

https://time.com/6984968/joe-biden-transcript-2024-interview/

I don’t think Biden and Trump could be better metaphors for an empire in decline.

@Demosthenes I keep hoping the US can skate along on autopilot for a few years and maybe a shift will happen to put us back on the right track.

You are going to MX right? Interesting to see what will happen there with the new president.

It seems odd that so many are blaming people that vote for Trump as why Biden would lose. Isn’t that the case in every election? People that vote for the winning candidate are to blame for the loser losing? Why would people vote for Trump if Biden is doing so great for the country? If he is making things so great for everyone, why wouldn’t they vote to keep him in office?

The electoral college again.
I would never, ever not vote. The memory of the Hipples and their epic battle to get the voting age lowered to 18 is too fresh in my mind.

@seawulf575 I must admit that it does seem strange that people would complain about the outcome of a democratic process that they also seem to revere so much.

Surely any election outcome should be celebrated as the democratic will of the people.

@Kropotkin That’s the thing about the Presidental election. It is far from the “democratic will of the people”. Two times in recent decades the people have elected one candidate but yet the other one stepped into the Oval Office.

Any converts to Dr. West after tonight’s debate?

Biden should ask Hillary to run in his place.

@mazingerz88 There is only one person who has ever lost to Donald Trump in an election, and that’s who you want to run against him? Are you being serious or satirical?

Yes. I am very serious.

I’m with @mazingerz88.
And he lost both times he ran, actually @gorillapaws

I don’t know what to say… Neoliberals deserve Trump 2.0 apparently.

God no.

I love Hillary, and I think she would win against Trump today even with the electoral college if she was 20 years younger, but at her age, enough already with the candidates over 75 years old. She would protect women, protect healthcare and make it a priority, and knows the dynamics of world affairs and knows world leaders, so even the Democrats who hated her (which I will never understand) would come out and vote for her if they stayed home last time, but again too old, move on.

I don’t think they will replace Biden, he has to choose to leave. If he leaves, I keep hearing Newsome, but I hope it would be Whitmer. I think Newsome is too far to the left and we risk Independents not voting for him. Not sure who else is out there who might aspire to be president, there must be other governors. Governors are the most likely choice but doesn’t have to be obviously.