What were your thoughts about the Trump/Biden debate last night?

I felt rage at the DNC for fighting tooth-and-nail to prevent all of the other scenarios where a competent human being could have been debating Trump. Biden looked like he was in 25th Amendment territory.

Tbh Trump performed well, was restrained and let Biden resort to namecalling and insults.
Biden had a few good zingers ‘you have the morals of an alley cat’ being the funniest.
It felt more like entertainment than a debate compared to every other debate I’ve watched.

From a local brewer who is very vocal about politics, especially in Wisconsin. (I agree with him.)

Biden= Old but capable

Trump= Wild lies, malignant narcissism, strongman fascism

Mainstream Media= Apparently being old is worse than being a fascist

One mediocre night for Biden, mostly due to nervous stuttering, and Democrats are screaming and panicking.

Trump performed as I expected, he was fairly calm and mostly waited for his turn. His voice sounded clear and he seemed able to handle the demand of the debate. He told quite a few lies as expected, and a few dog whistles to his extremist supporters. His answer for Jan 6th was unbelievable, launching into what he says was good on Jan 6th, the economy, the gas prices, whatever else he said. Trump did a few unrelated pivots to get in topics not asked, but fewer than I expected.

Biden in the first ten minutes was terrible. I was immediately texting friends of mine. His voice was too soft, he seemed to lose his train of thought at one point very early on. He did get better towards the end, but the beginning was so bad, and the middle was still not great. I felt like he was over-practiced, and that wore out his voice, and too worried about answering what his advisors told him to say. That’s how he sounded to me, he did not sound sick to me.

I think it is a disaster that these two men are our candidates.

I only watched 20 minutes of the debate, so my opinion is based on that 20 minutes.
I felt that Biden talked too fast and seemed to lose his train of thought easily.
Trumps voice was strong, but his hand gestures are very distracting. He still lies about everything.
Watching both men walk out to the stage made me sad as I felt they both just shuffled out as older men do.

Biden looked old and he wasn’t very articulate but nevertheless he came across as a decent man. Trump performed better than I expected. He toned down the vitriol and he sounded more level headed and less inflammatory than usual.

Trump spoke lies and nonsense with confidence and passion while Biden stumbled with the truth. Not a great choice, but I know who I would vote for.

These are performances put on to give some people the sense that they are engaged in some kind of democracy. I generally do not watch them. But I did see a few clips, and they were exactly what I expected: a propaganda machine (CNN) assigns two of the worst people/propagandists on the planet to moderate this “debate” between two senior citizens who are supposed to reflect opposing positions. And both of them take turns arguing that they are indeed more pro-genocide and anti-immigrant than the other. It’s embarrassing and should dispel any confusions people have about what kind of system we have.

But I did speak with my mother this morning. She’s not very online, so she generally gets her news from well-curated short clips on corporate news. Therefore, she was not really aware how much Biden had declined. She was shocked and wanted someone to “take that poor man off stage and put him to bed”. Her sense was that he didn’t have long to live, and we briefly spoke of my father and other relatives who had reached that level of decline and how sad it was. My mother’s politics are common anti-Trump Democrat, but she admitted to me that Biden’s performance made Trump seem more lucid and reasonable than Biden.

Looking at corporate news this morning, it seems that the Dems are publicly admitting Biden’s performance and problems with age. This probably wouldn’t happen unless there is movement within the Dem party to replace him (maybe at the convention?). Again, not my party and this isn’t my fight, so I’m not sure who they’d replace him with. But when trotting out an 81-year-old man makes people feel sad and start reminiscing about losing their relatives to dementia, maybe it’s time to find another actor for this absurd performance.

I am on vacation and we were watching a movie in the resort last night, and I totally forgot to tune in to the debate when we returned to the room. By the time I remembered and put it on, I caught the last snippet plus the closing remarks, which were set at 2 minutes each. The snippet that I caught, before the closing, Biden was rambling on and I had trouble understanding what he was saying. I thought “how sad is this” and then I listened to the post-debate commentary on CNN and NBC. All were saying negative things. I then looked at the NY Times this morning (a decidedly liberal newspaper) and they had many negative articles about Biden’s performance, including negative opinion pieces saying he should step down and how Dems watching the debate were cringeing.

I asked this question a few weeks ago and most here were jumping up and down with indignation that this was a horrible statement to make, and yet today, there are more calls for Biden to step down and let someone else run for the Dems:

https://www.fluther.com/238198/what-do-you-think-about-this-opinion-piece-that-suggests-that/

I remember after the State of the Union speech, a friend who likes Biden and stands by him no matter what, and is now nervously watching arttcles and polls, had stated that she was so relieved that he spoke well at the State of the Union. I said “is that the new standard for a candidate? That they speak well? Because if that’s the case, that’s a really low bar.”

@jca2 A lot of Democrats suffer from trying too hard not wanting to sound ageist, racist, anti-women, and on and on. I think that was part of the problem with Democrats trying to convince themselves Biden isn’t too old. Plus, once it is decided he is the candidate people need to feel good about voting for him, it’s cognitive dissonance at play.

The whole thing feels very manipulated to me. The political media pushing their own agenda. I don’t say that about all media.

I did think Biden did great at the State of the Union, I felt some relief, but it didn’t change that I wish it was Gretchen Whitmer running for president. Or, someone else who I might not be very aware of.

I was disappointed in Bidens performance but he sounded like his voice was hoarse. Probably practiced too much. I think he also would’ve benefitted from wearing his glasses for reading his notes. They were allowed to have notes and it looked like he had a hard time reading them. I guess they thought glasses would make him look old! LOL

Trump did his usual. He didn’t say anything that he didn’t practice saying at hundreds of his rally so he looked prepared. He dodged the questions he didn’t have a good lie for or he cried about how unfair he’s being treated and takes no responsibility as usual.

But the debates are really about the undecided voter who usually doesn’t follow politics. Most people who watched already know who they are going to vote for.

I did see where the moderator asked Trump if he would accept the results of the election and he gave a rambling answer about “if it’s a fair and legal election” and then the moderator repeated it.

It’s #joever.

I find it funny that five months before the election, Democrats are just now starting to realize that Biden maybe isn’t the best candidate. Seems like that realization could’ve come sooner, but what do I know? The primary reason Biden was nominated in the first place is because Hillary was not “safe” enough of a candidate in 2016, and Democrats supposedly learned their lesson. So they went with the “safest”, oldest, white man they could find. They just got more than they bargained for.

From what I saw, Trump is going to be the 47th president. I hope you can find an even safer candidate in 2028!

To quote the sanitation commissioner on The Simpsons who lost in a landslide to Homer, who then quickly bankrupted the town: “It’s so satisfying to see you all wallowing in the mess you’ve made, you’re screwed, goodbye.” ;)

IMHO Dems can’t keep looking the other way and pretending everything is hunky dory. If something drastic isn’t done now, then the Dems are going to be very unhappy the day after the election, talking about what they could have or should have done differently.

Biden made Trump look good. That’s as fucked up as it sounds.

There is no way to deny that Biden is not actually running things now. Begs the question….

It was perfectly designed to let everyone see what they expected/wanted to see. If you are planning to vote for Trump, Biden looked like an old ninny and Trump looked like a restrained statesman. If you are planning to vote for Biden, Trump looked like a man struggling to contain his lies to the merely implausible and Biden looked like a sitting president having the traditional first debate wobbles. It feeds everyone’s narratives and changes nothing.

@JeSuisRickSpringfield For many, yes. But I wouldn’t say nothing’s changed. The mainstream media is certainly undergoing a freakout right now. Negative headlines about Biden and talk of replacing him from many sources that have done nothing but defend him for the past four years. This is not coming from people who are planning to vote for Trump. Ultimately I don’t think anything will change, but there are scales falling from eyes in a way that isn’t typical of an incumbent race.

@Demosthenes I wasn’t really talking about that angle, but I don’t disagree. The current media narrative has changed, though I would note that they’ve also gone through cycles of “should Biden be replaced?” before. And I expect that we’ll soon get a parade of “Obama’s first debate against Romney was terrible, too” stories to bring things back around.

I watched the entire debate. Here’s what I saw:

Trump: got wrapped around the axle of things Biden said in an answer when a new question was being asked of him. I saw this a couple times. I understand wanting to make your point clear and to correct errors from your opponent, but when you’ve had your say on a topic, move on. It didn’t show he was really focused like he should have been.

Biden: Lost. And I don’t mean lost the debate, though that too. It started when he came out, smiled real big and waved to the crowd…in an empty room. His demeanor was weak and frail. Most of what he did was to push the same story about his “achievements” that people don’t buy anymore. Trump would make statements about Biden’s performance and at least 3 times all Biden did was to respond by saying “Everything he said was a lie!” More on lying in a moment. Some of his answers seemed to ramble, change topic, and fade off into incoherence.

Both: Some untruths on both sides. But some that were called lies in the debate were actually truths. Example was Trump saying that more people died on Covid under Biden’s efforts than under his own. Biden said this was a lie. The truth is that just under 400,000 died under Trump, well over 800,000 died under Biden. So it was not a lie and declaring it a lie was. But both did similar things. Another thing was that they got way off topic several times. Debating about some report as to who the worst president was and how good they are at gold are two examples. I’m pretty sure not a single American really cared on either topic.

Moderators: Well done. I have to say that the two moderators had a long past of bashing Trump and covering for Biden. But they played it pretty straight as far as I could tell.

Trump lied, and avoided questions, even when asked repeatedly.
Biden is aging in a difficult job.

Conservatives are saying this was the Democrats plan all along, to leave Biden in intil the convention in August and replace him in a ‘surprise’ move to win in November.

If the Dems run someone else I’d like to see the Republicans follow suit. This is unacceptable.

@Blackwater_Park They won’t. Like him or not he’s extremely popular with a lot of Americans who believe he can close the border (based on his previous term.) That he can make deals to get us out of WW3, that he can help improve the economy with his business savvy/deals. Etc…
I think people underestimate his popularity because people have been mocked for supporting him. Still won’t change theor vote in Nov but they may not say it.

@KNOWITALL Everything you wrote makes sense to me that Republicans would think and feel that way. I don’t know if it is true that the ivory tower of the Democrats had it planned all along to replace Biden, but I can understand why people believe it. I don’t know if he will be replaced, but if Republicans had replaced someone a couple of months before the convention I am sure the Democrats would have been saying how undemocratic it is. The Democrats who generally want a direct vote would be literally leaving it to the delegates without any information from the citizenry. This is one reason why I think it won’t happen, but I really have no idea.

Was trump sweating?

^^I didn’t notice him sweating. He looked at ease to me most of the time. You can probably watch it on youtube.

Now the NY Times Editorial Board is calling for Biden to step down from running again.

I think Biden is old and had a terrible performance, but he is an effective (and humane) President. I think Trump is old and performs terribly in every possible way, and expectations for him were so low that as long as he didn’t sexually assault anyone on stage, it was considered a success. He is a pathological liar, a convicted criminal, mentally defective, a malignant narcissist, and a sociopath.

^Love this answer!

Amazing the power of denial.

@syz So you are comfortable with another four years of Biden? Serious question. A lot of Democrats are not.

@KNOWITALL – it’s actually that he has to get through 4 and a half years – there’s half of 2024 and then it would be four more.

@jca2 My concern is right now, and his decision-making abilities more than his physical health. Even as a non-Democrat I’d want a Kamala or anyone more cognizant. Tough times call for tough decisions and I hope we all can agree that Biden is probably not our safest or smartest candidate.

@KNOWITALL I’m not a Democrat either, and I kept thinking, what if China launched a first strike right in this moment and this fucking fossil of a man had just minutes to react to a thermonuclear assault, what would the country do? I wouldn’t trust him to lead a group of kids from the pool to the picnic table for lunch without worrying something bad could happen.

Man, Trump using “Palestinian” as an insult was wild.

And I saw this comment on another site and have to agree with it:

Biden vs. Trump is America’s “check engine” light, and we’re ignoring it.

Biden is an effective ahd humane President, but is he going to beat Trump? After the debate performance, I seriously doubt it. Then it won’t matter how effective and humane he is.

Biden is not effective at all. Clearly, he is not running things. His administration is, and he is just a figurehead they roll out to make appearances. It was plain to see before this debate and now it is undeniable by rational people who finally saw it out on display. We cannot have this in a democracy. There is no damage control that can fix this. The DNC will have to cough up another candidate.

Wow. I believe Biden is competent and he is surrounded by competent people. I don’t let the media or one debate help form my opinion.

I support Biden but I was very disappointed in how he handled himself. He came back the next day and made some strong statements, and some peope said that he does better with planned speeches. The problem with that claim is that the questions were very predictable and Biden should have carefully determined how to answer them prior to the debate.

Biden isn’t doing it all alone. Neither did Obama. Those two took their advisors seriously. Unlike Trump.

@syz for the win!

I just feel unreal. Like “Momma Told Me Not To Come.” Open up the window sucker!....

45% of Dems didn’t want Biden to be the candidate in the days before the debate, according to the latest Siena College poll. It will be interesting to see what new post-debate poll numbers are.

Biden isn’t my most favorite president, but Obama endorsed him. Good enough for me.

@jca2 What’s the usual percentage? When there is a primary maybe the winner often has only 45%? I really don’t know, but just thinking if there were three or more candidates, maybe the winner carries less than 50%.

@JLeslie You would hope that if there’s an election coming up, the majority of people on the candidate’s party (in this case, the Dems) would be excited for him to run. In Biden’s case, 45% of Dems don’t want him to run at all.

Good opinion piece by Bill Maher in the New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/01/opinion/bill-maher-open-convention.html?pvid=cFRJ1YinkFYpludnnqOIILwN

@jca2 I was just questioning what it usually is. Probably depends partly on how the question is asked.

@JLeslie Good op-ed by Maher.