What were your thoughts about the Trump/Biden debate last night?

I felt rage at the DNC for fighting tooth-and-nail to prevent all of the other scenarios where a competent human being could have been debating Trump. Biden looked like he was in 25th Amendment territory.

Tbh Trump performed well, was restrained and let Biden resort to namecalling and insults.
Biden had a few good zingers ‘you have the morals of an alley cat’ being the funniest.
It felt more like entertainment than a debate compared to every other debate I’ve watched.

From a local brewer who is very vocal about politics, especially in Wisconsin. (I agree with him.)

Biden= Old but capable

Trump= Wild lies, malignant narcissism, strongman fascism

Mainstream Media= Apparently being old is worse than being a fascist

One mediocre night for Biden, mostly due to nervous stuttering, and Democrats are screaming and panicking.

Trump performed as I expected, he was fairly calm and mostly waited for his turn. His voice sounded clear and he seemed able to handle the demand of the debate. He told quite a few lies as expected, and a few dog whistles to his extremist supporters. His answer for Jan 6th was unbelievable, launching into what he says was good on Jan 6th, the economy, the gas prices, whatever else he said. Trump did a few unrelated pivots to get in topics not asked, but fewer than I expected.

Biden in the first ten minutes was terrible. I was immediately texting friends of mine. His voice was too soft, he seemed to lose his train of thought at one point very early on. He did get better towards the end, but the beginning was so bad, and the middle was still not great. I felt like he was over-practiced, and that wore out his voice, and too worried about answering what his advisors told him to say. That’s how he sounded to me, he did not sound sick to me.

I think it is a disaster that these two men are our candidates.

I only watched 20 minutes of the debate, so my opinion is based on that 20 minutes.
I felt that Biden talked too fast and seemed to lose his train of thought easily.
Trumps voice was strong, but his hand gestures are very distracting. He still lies about everything.
Watching both men walk out to the stage made me sad as I felt they both just shuffled out as older men do.

Biden looked old and he wasn’t very articulate but nevertheless he came across as a decent man. Trump performed better than I expected. He toned down the vitriol and he sounded more level headed and less inflammatory than usual.

Trump spoke lies and nonsense with confidence and passion while Biden stumbled with the truth. Not a great choice, but I know who I would vote for.

These are performances put on to give some people the sense that they are engaged in some kind of democracy. I generally do not watch them. But I did see a few clips, and they were exactly what I expected: a propaganda machine (CNN) assigns two of the worst people/propagandists on the planet to moderate this “debate” between two senior citizens who are supposed to reflect opposing positions. And both of them take turns arguing that they are indeed more pro-genocide and anti-immigrant than the other. It’s embarrassing and should dispel any confusions people have about what kind of system we have.

But I did speak with my mother this morning. She’s not very online, so she generally gets her news from well-curated short clips on corporate news. Therefore, she was not really aware how much Biden had declined. She was shocked and wanted someone to “take that poor man off stage and put him to bed”. Her sense was that he didn’t have long to live, and we briefly spoke of my father and other relatives who had reached that level of decline and how sad it was. My mother’s politics are common anti-Trump Democrat, but she admitted to me that Biden’s performance made Trump seem more lucid and reasonable than Biden.

Looking at corporate news this morning, it seems that the Dems are publicly admitting Biden’s performance and problems with age. This probably wouldn’t happen unless there is movement within the Dem party to replace him (maybe at the convention?). Again, not my party and this isn’t my fight, so I’m not sure who they’d replace him with. But when trotting out an 81-year-old man makes people feel sad and start reminiscing about losing their relatives to dementia, maybe it’s time to find another actor for this absurd performance.

I am on vacation and we were watching a movie in the resort last night, and I totally forgot to tune in to the debate when we returned to the room. By the time I remembered and put it on, I caught the last snippet plus the closing remarks, which were set at 2 minutes each. The snippet that I caught, before the closing, Biden was rambling on and I had trouble understanding what he was saying. I thought “how sad is this” and then I listened to the post-debate commentary on CNN and NBC. All were saying negative things. I then looked at the NY Times this morning (a decidedly liberal newspaper) and they had many negative articles about Biden’s performance, including negative opinion pieces saying he should step down and how Dems watching the debate were cringeing.

I asked this question a few weeks ago and most here were jumping up and down with indignation that this was a horrible statement to make, and yet today, there are more calls for Biden to step down and let someone else run for the Dems:

https://www.fluther.com/238198/what-do-you-think-about-this-opinion-piece-that-suggests-that/

I remember after the State of the Union speech, a friend who likes Biden and stands by him no matter what, and is now nervously watching arttcles and polls, had stated that she was so relieved that he spoke well at the State of the Union. I said “is that the new standard for a candidate? That they speak well? Because if that’s the case, that’s a really low bar.”

@jca2 A lot of Democrats suffer from trying too hard not wanting to sound ageist, racist, anti-women, and on and on. I think that was part of the problem with Democrats trying to convince themselves Biden isn’t too old. Plus, once it is decided he is the candidate people need to feel good about voting for him, it’s cognitive dissonance at play.

The whole thing feels very manipulated to me. The political media pushing their own agenda. I don’t say that about all media.

I did think Biden did great at the State of the Union, I felt some relief, but it didn’t change that I wish it was Gretchen Whitmer running for president. Or, someone else who I might not be very aware of.

I was disappointed in Bidens performance but he sounded like his voice was hoarse. Probably practiced too much. I think he also would’ve benefitted from wearing his glasses for reading his notes. They were allowed to have notes and it looked like he had a hard time reading them. I guess they thought glasses would make him look old! LOL

Trump did his usual. He didn’t say anything that he didn’t practice saying at hundreds of his rally so he looked prepared. He dodged the questions he didn’t have a good lie for or he cried about how unfair he’s being treated and takes no responsibility as usual.

But the debates are really about the undecided voter who usually doesn’t follow politics. Most people who watched already know who they are going to vote for.

I did see where the moderator asked Trump if he would accept the results of the election and he gave a rambling answer about “if it’s a fair and legal election” and then the moderator repeated it.

It’s #joever.

I find it funny that five months before the election, Democrats are just now starting to realize that Biden maybe isn’t the best candidate. Seems like that realization could’ve come sooner, but what do I know? The primary reason Biden was nominated in the first place is because Hillary was not “safe” enough of a candidate in 2016, and Democrats supposedly learned their lesson. So they went with the “safest”, oldest, white man they could find. They just got more than they bargained for.

From what I saw, Trump is going to be the 47th president. I hope you can find an even safer candidate in 2028!

To quote the sanitation commissioner on The Simpsons who lost in a landslide to Homer, who then quickly bankrupted the town: “It’s so satisfying to see you all wallowing in the mess you’ve made, you’re screwed, goodbye.” ;)

IMHO Dems can’t keep looking the other way and pretending everything is hunky dory. If something drastic isn’t done now, then the Dems are going to be very unhappy the day after the election, talking about what they could have or should have done differently.

Biden made Trump look good. That’s as fucked up as it sounds.

There is no way to deny that Biden is not actually running things now. Begs the question….

It was perfectly designed to let everyone see what they expected/wanted to see. If you are planning to vote for Trump, Biden looked like an old ninny and Trump looked like a restrained statesman. If you are planning to vote for Biden, Trump looked like a man struggling to contain his lies to the merely implausible and Biden looked like a sitting president having the traditional first debate wobbles. It feeds everyone’s narratives and changes nothing.

@JeSuisRickSpringfield For many, yes. But I wouldn’t say nothing’s changed. The mainstream media is certainly undergoing a freakout right now. Negative headlines about Biden and talk of replacing him from many sources that have done nothing but defend him for the past four years. This is not coming from people who are planning to vote for Trump. Ultimately I don’t think anything will change, but there are scales falling from eyes in a way that isn’t typical of an incumbent race.

@Demosthenes I wasn’t really talking about that angle, but I don’t disagree. The current media narrative has changed, though I would note that they’ve also gone through cycles of “should Biden be replaced?” before. And I expect that we’ll soon get a parade of “Obama’s first debate against Romney was terrible, too” stories to bring things back around. What will change things is if (and I think when) Biden is actually replaced by a different nominee. But as long as these are the candidates, nothing has really changed.

I watched the entire debate. Here’s what I saw:

Trump: got wrapped around the axle of things Biden said in an answer when a new question was being asked of him. I saw this a couple times. I understand wanting to make your point clear and to correct errors from your opponent, but when you’ve had your say on a topic, move on. It didn’t show he was really focused like he should have been.

Biden: Lost. And I don’t mean lost the debate, though that too. It started when he came out, smiled real big and waved to the crowd…in an empty room. His demeanor was weak and frail. Most of what he did was to push the same story about his “achievements” that people don’t buy anymore. Trump would make statements about Biden’s performance and at least 3 times all Biden did was to respond by saying “Everything he said was a lie!” More on lying in a moment. Some of his answers seemed to ramble, change topic, and fade off into incoherence.

Both: Some untruths on both sides. But some that were called lies in the debate were actually truths. Example was Trump saying that more people died on Covid under Biden’s efforts than under his own. Biden said this was a lie. The truth is that just under 400,000 died under Trump, well over 800,000 died under Biden. So it was not a lie and declaring it a lie was. But both did similar things. Another thing was that they got way off topic several times. Debating about some report as to who the worst president was and how good they are at gold are two examples. I’m pretty sure not a single American really cared on either topic.

Moderators: Well done. I have to say that the two moderators had a long past of bashing Trump and covering for Biden. But they played it pretty straight as far as I could tell.

Trump lied, and avoided questions, even when asked repeatedly.
Biden is aging in a difficult job.

Conservatives are saying this was the Democrats plan all along, to leave Biden in intil the convention in August and replace him in a ‘surprise’ move to win in November.

If the Dems run someone else I’d like to see the Republicans follow suit. This is unacceptable.

@Blackwater_Park They won’t. Like him or not he’s extremely popular with a lot of Americans who believe he can close the border (based on his previous term.) That he can make deals to get us out of WW3, that he can help improve the economy with his business savvy/deals. Etc…
I think people underestimate his popularity because people have been mocked for supporting him. Still won’t change theor vote in Nov but they may not say it.

@KNOWITALL Everything you wrote makes sense to me that Republicans would think and feel that way. I don’t know if it is true that the ivory tower of the Democrats had it planned all along to replace Biden, but I can understand why people believe it. I don’t know if he will be replaced, but if Republicans had replaced someone a couple of months before the convention I am sure the Democrats would have been saying how undemocratic it is. The Democrats who generally want a direct vote would be literally leaving it to the delegates without any information from the citizenry. This is one reason why I think it won’t happen, but I really have no idea.

Was trump sweating?

^^I didn’t notice him sweating. He looked at ease to me most of the time. You can probably watch it on youtube.

Now the NY Times Editorial Board is calling for Biden to step down from running again.

I think Biden is old and had a terrible performance, but he is an effective (and humane) President. I think Trump is old and performs terribly in every possible way, and expectations for him were so low that as long as he didn’t sexually assault anyone on stage, it was considered a success. He is a pathological liar, a convicted criminal, mentally defective, a malignant narcissist, and a sociopath.

^Love this answer!

Amazing the power of denial.

@syz So you are comfortable with another four years of Biden? Serious question. A lot of Democrats are not.

@KNOWITALL – it’s actually that he has to get through 4 and a half years – there’s half of 2024 and then it would be four more.

@jca2 My concern is right now, and his decision-making abilities more than his physical health. Even as a non-Democrat I’d want a Kamala or anyone more cognizant. Tough times call for tough decisions and I hope we all can agree that Biden is probably not our safest or smartest candidate.

@KNOWITALL I’m not a Democrat either, and I kept thinking, what if China launched a first strike right in this moment and this fucking fossil of a man had just minutes to react to a thermonuclear assault, what would the country do? I wouldn’t trust him to lead a group of kids from the pool to the picnic table for lunch without worrying something bad could happen.

Man, Trump using “Palestinian” as an insult was wild.

And I saw this comment on another site and have to agree with it:

Biden vs. Trump is America’s “check engine” light, and we’re ignoring it.

Biden is an effective ahd humane President, but is he going to beat Trump? After the debate performance, I seriously doubt it. Then it won’t matter how effective and humane he is.

Biden is not effective at all. Clearly, he is not running things. His administration is, and he is just a figurehead they roll out to make appearances. It was plain to see before this debate and now it is undeniable by rational people who finally saw it out on display. We cannot have this in a democracy. There is no damage control that can fix this. The DNC will have to cough up another candidate.

Wow. I believe Biden is competent and he is surrounded by competent people. I don’t let the media or one debate help form my opinion.

I support Biden but I was very disappointed in how he handled himself. He came back the next day and made some strong statements, and some peope said that he does better with planned speeches. The problem with that claim is that the questions were very predictable and Biden should have carefully determined how to answer them prior to the debate.

Biden isn’t doing it all alone. Neither did Obama. Those two took their advisors seriously. Unlike Trump.

@syz for the win!

I just feel unreal. Like “Momma Told Me Not To Come.” Open up the window sucker!....

45% of Dems didn’t want Biden to be the candidate in the days before the debate, according to the latest Siena College poll. It will be interesting to see what new post-debate poll numbers are.

Biden isn’t my most favorite president, but Obama endorsed him. Good enough for me.

@jca2 What’s the usual percentage? When there is a primary maybe the winner often has only 45%? I really don’t know, but just thinking if there were three or more candidates, maybe the winner carries less than 50%.

@JLeslie You would hope that if there’s an election coming up, the majority of people on the candidate’s party (in this case, the Dems) would be excited for him to run. In Biden’s case, 45% of Dems don’t want him to run at all.

Good opinion piece by Bill Maher in the New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/01/opinion/bill-maher-open-convention.html?pvid=cFRJ1YinkFYpludnnqOIILwN

@jca2 I was just questioning what it usually is. Probably depends partly on how the question is asked.

@JLeslie Good op-ed by Maher.

We survived 8 years of Bush Jr. We can easily survive 8 years of Biden.
But I agree. The Dems need to get their act together.

I’m going to blame the Democrats for Trump also. Some funny business was going on with the DNC and Sanders and it’s almost like they somehow got Trump to run as a straw candidate that Hillary could easily beat. They underestimated just how hated Hillary was. Some of the vitriol was deserved and some of it was successful right-wing propaganda. Either way, we have Donald Trump well-positioned to take the office…again. I have yet to see any DNC candidate suggested that could unseat him from the lead. Pence was 100% correct when he left the race but warned about the danger of voting for a populist. Trump is the “cockroach king” for those of you in the know.

@Blackwater_Park They certainly have bolstered Trump’s support. Everything the Dems have done for the last 8 years has been geared towards getting Trump. The fought against everything he wanted to do strictly because he wanted to do it. They haven’t shown any real policies that are actually good for the country. They have distanced themselves from the people, relying on their rhetoric to continue to fool people. They have created lies and crimes that Trump supposedly did and they have shown they have weaponized the DOJ, even establishing a two-tiered level of justice. And now, every time they try something else against Trump, it just puts more Americans behind him. And Americans are waking up to the lies of propaganda of the media. All this is on the Democrats. And now they have Joe Biden who has been exposed on world wide TV as being slow, weak, and failing and they have no one else to fall back on.

@Blackwater_Park I blame the Dems a lot too, for some of the same reasons you mentioned, but it doesn’t change that Republicans vote for Trump in the primaries, so it is the Republicans too.

@JLeslie Of course. I really think Trump initially ran for his “brand” and Republican voters treated him as a hand grenade to be thrown in the Oval Office since no other decent Republican was running. Once Trump won, he embraced it, cultivated his image, and just stumbled into being a populist. I think there have been legitimate shenanigans by the left-wing to pin crimes on him that would not normally stick and there have been some serious things he did that warrant attention and criminal penalties. Many right-wing voters see the shenanigans and ignore the real stuff. It’s all a huge f’ing mess, and we all get to sit in the stink.

@Blackwater_Park I’m one of those right wing voters, but you are missing a nuance that I think applies to most Trump supporters. It isn’t that we ignore the real stuff, it’s that the Dems and the media have made it impossible to tell what that real stuff is. They have made up stuff ever since he was elected in 2016 and swore it was real stuff to the point of censoring anyone that dared to disagree. Even the J6 committee played in this game. The riot on J6 was a bad thing…no argument about that. But they tried pushing it as an insurrection (exaggeration) which it was not. They claimed it was deadly and that those horrible Trump supporters killed 6 police officers that day (which was a lie). They doctored video footage and claimed it was legitimate. They selectively cut Trump’s speech to make it sound like he was saying something that he wasn’t. When they turned the control of the committee over to the incoming Republican control, they deleted and destroyed tons of evidence because they didn’t want it to be used to show the real story. So they have created legitimate questions about their own credibility and it gums up things like any prosecutions. Sane people question these things.

You all should know by now that @seawulf575 and I stay pretty well-informed and are not young voters.
Believe me when I say I’d rather not have to choose between Trump and Biden.
I will also agree that the Left has bolstered Trump to this point. I’m sure the plan was to make him a felon and unpalatable to the American public BUT that debate ended the lie that Joes okay.
If its not handled quickly Trump will absolutely win another term.

@Blackwater_Park I’m with you, except to say I think Kasich in 2016 was really good, and it’s so frustrating the Republican party caters so much to the extremes in their party. Although, they did nominate Romney, who was a moderate-ish Republican until he ran for president.

@seawulf575 with trump we didn’t have to make anything up! But do you have an example of your claim to share with us?

@JLeslie I voted for Kasich in the primary back then.

@Blackwater_Park :) I’m a Democrat so I did not vote in the Republican primary, but I kind of wish Democrats had voted in the Republican primary for Kasich. I think Hillary was already for sure by the time the vote was in my state, but I don’t recall 100%.

@Dutchess_III Which claim…that they made crap up? Sure. Start with the Russia Collusion hoax. That went on for 3 years. It was based on a dossier that was written using input from Russian operatives to a disgraced former spy to be used against him on the campaign. It was not vetted before it was used to violate his rights and the rights of those around him. It was pushed 24/7 by the left wing media and not questioned once by them. Even when Mueller found that while he found evidence that Russia was trying to interfere with the election (mainly through social media) no Americans knowingly participated in it. the left still pushed it as being fact. When Durham came out and showed how shady the entire thing was after his investigation, the DOJ (Now under Biden) failed to follow through on any indictments. They covered for the whole thing.

The Charlottesville lie, the quid pro quo impeachment…everything was made up by the Dems and supported by the propagandists in the media. Even Hunter’s laptop falls into all that. It was offered to the FBI before anyone else knew about it. They took the laptop and did nothing with it. So a copy of the hard drive was given to Guiliani who gave it to the Post and POOF the genie was out of the bottle. Except the DOJ continued to deny everything. 50 former intelligence officials gave Biden the talking point that it was all Russian disinformation. People were censored on some social media sights and even had accounts canceled for just mentioning it. Yet here we are, years later, and it as been used as evidence in a court case. It was a true thing all along. Imagine if the media and the DOJ did their jobs right and all this came to light before the 2020 election?

Every time the Dems start having a hard time, they throw something at Trump. It stopped being believable a long time ago. If he pulled a gun out and shot someone in Times square, I wouldn’t believe it until I saw the unedited video myself, and then only if it was from what I call a reputable outlet…nothing left-wing.

SNL skit: “They me look bad
because they post everything I do and everything I say.”

@Dutchess_III While that is true (good and bad) ya’ll are trying to tell us that Biden who can’t form a complete thought is fit for office? Shiiiittttt, not even most Democrats want Biden now.

^I don’t know where you are getting that “most” dems don’t want Biden because most of the people in my life want him to continue, as well as most of the journalists I follow. Yes, we’d prefer a younger candidate, but we aren’t basing our decision on a 90 minute debate. We are basing our decision on his 3½ years as President.

Nice @jonsblond

Denial