Should the 25th amendment be invoked now? Instead of waiting for President Biden to resign?
If he is truly Incapable of leading the country? The world needs a president 24/7. As shtf is always happening.
Or is President Biden competent?
Who decides?
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The 25th Amendment could be invoked, but the process would be difficult to get done. @gorrilapaws asked a similar question in a thread. Yes, the VP and the majority of the cabinet members could invoke it They would sign a statement declaring Biden unfit and give it to the Speaker of the House and the President Pro Tempore in the Senate. If Biden doesn’t want to go, he can then give a written statement to the same people stating no incapacity exists. Then the VP and her gang have another few days to put in another declaration whereupon it falls to Congress. ⅔rds of the Congress have to agree to make it pass.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv
All that, while being an interesting exercise, would ultimately be completely horrible for the Dems and the country. It would, in effect, be the Dems saying that they knew he was failing for a long time and have been lying to the public about it. It would go against what they have said all along. Faith in the governing body would be gone. The last shreds of faith in the media would be gone. Americans and pretty much every country in the world would see the shambles the Dems have made. Our enemies would see it as a perfect time to strike, whether militarily, economically, or politically. Not a good move.
But the choice is not resignation or the 25th Amendment. It’s Biden withdrawing from the upcoming election or the 25th Amendment or complete embarrassment by being replaced as the candidate. What you really have is a situation where Biden is grossly incompetent. There is something completely wrong as most of the country can see. Whether he is aware of it or not is another story. But his ego, and the egos of those close to him will not let him quit. The Democrats are under no obligation to make Joe Biden the Democratic nominee for the upcoming election. They can name someone else at the Democratic National Convention (and maybe before). They can’t force Biden out of the race and really don’t have to force him out of office (there are only a few more months to go), but they don’t need to support him anymore.
The Democrats have put themselves into a really bizarre situation. They backed Biden from the start, pushing him into the Presidency. His cognition was questionable back in 2020. It did not improve with age. But the Dems swore he was fit as a fiddle, sharper than ever. The media backed this play for many years now. Even when he would screw up, they made out to be a one-off type of thing instead of looking at the totality of the gaffes as a potential for something worse. They made him out to be a glowing star. And now, all of the sudden, the curtain has been pulled back and the country and the world saw Biden on full display. The Dems can’t put the genie back in the bottle, though some are trying. There are just 4 months left before the election and now the Dems are left with the option of sticking with Biden, who is already way behind in the polls and is now shown to be questionable as to his ability to last another 4 years, or to replace him. They can replace him but what that does is set the selection of the Democratic candidate into the hands of something like 10 people. So much for democracy, eh? The people are taken out of the equation and the elites are deciding things. It sends a really weird message to people. Additionally, all the big money donors that have contributed to Biden are suddenly being told their money was completely wasted. And to add fuel to that fire, the new candidate will need monetary support and those same donors will be tapped again. But the other question is: Who would the nominee be? Most of the names on the list I’ve seen are politicians that would be hard to sell to America. There was one name on the list that I suspect they will use, one who isn’t a politician. And I firmly believe this was the plan all along. I don’t believe Biden was ever supposed to be the final candidate for the Dems in 2024. Ever. Not since he was first presented as a candidate in 2020.
I think the hope is not that he’ll resign, but that he will choose not to run again, which, according to sources, is probably not going to happen. I think we’re doomed, because I don’t think he’ll beat Trump at this point, but miracles never cease, and I was scolded and told on another thread not to be so anti-Biden, so who knows. There are a lot of people who are pro-Biden, rah rah rah, he’s great, sharp as a tack, and there are a lot of people who are saying “this is a disaster, why did we let this happen.” It will be a very interesting few months ahead.
I think he needs an independent neurological exam, and he should release the results publicly. I don’t know if it’s possible for a panel of experts to assess the results blinded to the identity of the subject (via voice altering technology or something) and including him in a pool of other folks?
From what I saw in the debate and other times over the years, it looked like he had significant cognitive impairment. I’m not a neurologist or a cognitive psychologist, I’m just a random dickhead on the internet who states his opinions. That said, the POTUS is too important of an office to leave in the hands of someone incapable of the demands of the office, which are extreme. If the results question his ability to run the country, Biden should resign otherwise the 25th should be activated.
“The proof of Biden’s ability to run the country is the fact that he is running it. Successfully. Not a debate performance against a pathological lying sociopath.”
– Monique Pressley
@jca2 so your attitude is just to roll over and die? @gorillapaws we can agree to that if it’s to the extent that Trump’s test was, AKA, person woman man chair camera or whatever. And then if they claim that’s not enough, then we can claim that for Trump too. Besides, right now Biden has immunity, according to the Supreme Court, remember? And I say he’s competent.
@LifeQuestioner I think he should choose not to run again, but that’s just my opinion (and apparently the opinion of a growing number of people). I think the job of President of one of the largest and most powerful countries in the world is too important to be left up to someone who the best we can say about him is “he tells the truth” and on a day when he “speaks well,” that’s saying a lot (which is what many said after the State of the Union – “he spoke well). Is that the bar we have now for President? He tells the truth and he speaks well? He didn’t speak well on debate night – oh, I forgot, he had a cold. They say his best hours are between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. Like a child, I guess, then when it gets too late, they get tired and they need to rest.
@Zaku That isn’t proof that Biden has the ability to run the country. SOMEONE is making decisions and we put Biden as the name, but his performance shows he is incapable of handling a 90 minute debate. All that is proven is that we need to verify he actually IS running the country. After all, he was elected to do the job, right? So if unelected bureaucrats are running things, that is a huge problem
@LifeQuestioner I’d have no problem holding Trump (or any other candidate) to the same standard.
The US President isn’t sitting there in the Oval Office like some omniscient King passing decrees on every little thing that happens in the country.
He’s not “running the country”.
A country is largely run by unelected administrators in the civil service.
Joe could be secretly dead, and the country would still operate just fine. People just might wonder why he’s not making any public appearances.
This question was brough up here and in wide public opinion many times during Trump’s Presidency. Could they, YES. Will they, NO.
@seawulf575 Biden is doing the job as he started. He and his advisors are making decisions.
A debate is meaningless for the most part. A poor performance in a debate is not evidence he is not capable.
I can’t even image what the GOP would have said about how COVID was dealt with if the party names were reversed.
People Died because of Trump’s ignorance and inaction. That was a mighty big rug he tried to sweep it under. It is also the reason the economy suffered, yet they try to blame the economy on Biden. Should Trump be charged for those deaths?
@seawulf575 I question the judgement of anyone who’s more concerned about “a debate performance against a pathological lying sociopath,” than they are about the pathological lying sociopath.
It’s a little late to be so concerned that the POTUS can be a figurehead who might not really be up to the task of handling the Executive Branch single-handedly. Ronald Reagan made it clear he wasn’t really mentally up to that role.
Biden still looked more mentally qualified to me during that debate, than Reagan looked in 1980.
When Reagan had dementia so bad that Nancy had to stand next to him to tell him what to say, his people pushed through it. Yes, Biden is getting old, but that does NOT automatically make him incompetent. It’s a hack job being done by the FAKE news media!!! I see NO reason to invoke the 25th at this point in time. Have you ever seen the results of the test that 45 took. As well as I can remember, we ONLY have 45’s word that he aced it & IMHO his word is NOT worth much!!! After my stroke, I took the same test & I aced it even though I didn’t know my own name most days at that point in time.
I was with Mom when she took a cognitive test. She was frustrated, thinking she “failed” it. I assured her that I barely made it through it myself! It was difficult!
@Zaku You are in serious denial, this is not an endorsement for Trump. The DNC had better field a different candidate, and fast.
@Forever_Free And yet the claim Biden made that more people died under Trump’s administration because of Covid that under his own was a lie. Try to spin it any way you want, but it is a fact that just about twice as many died from Covid under Biden than under Trump. So his claim was a lie. Isn’t that the standard you apply to Trump? If he says something that is even marginally false, he has lied? And if the party names were reversed, you’d be saying Trump took all the actions Biden did. That would be a lefty’s wet dream, wouldn’t it? You could attack Trump for being a demented nut job and you’d be right.
In other words, this “debate” was between two grumpy old men trying to 1up each other on the amount of bullshit they could muster.
Biden resigning and Biden dropping out of the race are two different things.
The Democratic party is freaking out right now because the lie they’ve been telling for the past several years that Biden is “sharp as a tack” in private even though he appears senile in public (which never made any sense; why the fuck would he act senile in public?) has been blown out of the water: millions of Americans saw that Biden is not, in fact, sharp as a tack, and that has them nervous that Biden will lose to Trump. Now, if you think Biden is unfit to run, it should also stand that he’s unfit to rule and he should resign (to be fair, some liberal pundits have been calling for this, but mostly this is about electability). As @Kropotkin pointed out, Biden isn’t actually “running” anything; it’s not a concern that he’ll nuke Russia in a fit of dementia, it’s a concern that he might actually lose to Trump because some swing voters who voted for Trump in 2016 and Biden in 2020 are going to go back to Trump this time around due to Biden’s unfitness and that is what will determine the election. They’re not wrong. Our system ensures that it’s a few swing voters in a few swing states who pick the president. But ultimately those voters will vote for Trump if they think a change is needed; inflation is more likely to motivate them than a debate. Trump being in the White House isn’t going to magically make the price of groceries come down, but Biden is in office now and it’s not helping any, so why not change it up?
I think we are likely to see our first one-termer since Bush Sr. and our first non-consecutive since Cleveland. I never thought a rematch between Biden and Trump could be interesting, but for history buffs, it could be.
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