Can an American who admires and voted for Trump consider himself or herself as a decent human being?

Objectively no, but they do anyway.

I’m sure they do, by standards that are VASTLY different from my own.

Of course. They are focused on different things and hear different information. A woman I know said in Germany the people would talk about being honorable (I don’t remember if that was the exact word she used). The Nazi and Nazi sympathizers were the ones who supposedly had more honor, more moral.

I am not calling Trump supporters Nazis, just saying people typically view themselves as having good intentions.

Some of what Trump has done was good, it doesn’t matter, the bad is too extremely bad, but if you focus on the good and are very bothered by some of the things the Democrats do that are questionable, that’s how people function. Confirmation bias.

I think they can. They don’t go around saying nasty things about immigrants eating pets for example but they are quite pleased when someone says it for them.

I know some good people who are Trump supporters. I am guessing they don’t agree with every single thing Trump does, the way I, as a Democrat, don’t necessarily agree with every single thing the candidates I vote for do.

I try not to paint most people with a broad brush, i.e. “if you’re a Trump supporter, you’re automatically a bad person.” I would base an opinion of whether someone is good or bad on an individual basis.

There are good and bad people on the full range of political beliefs. Each just has different priorities.
Maybe you want to save an endangered flower for the environment, and your neighbor wants to drill to help millions of Americans with gas prices.
Your way or thought process doesnt mean you’re a bad person.
And even bad people have been kbown to do really good things, like BTK the serial killer. A lovely father, heavily involved in the church.

^He was a monster serial killer.

When there is an entire political party who state in their documents they want to take away rights I fought for and some my brothers and sisters died for, I can state authoritatively those people – all of them – are horrific.

No, but that’s not the point. Those people are just miserable and mad at the world.

It’s hilarious how black people are accused of “having a chip on their shoulder” when so many poor white people do as well.

And not even just the poor whites, there’s always some well off white family that’s still angry at the world….why?
They love to tell people to get over it….but they also can’t get over it….

“Rules for thee, but not for me.” The colonizer mantra….

There are people in the Republican party who literally want me dead. By allowing that into the party, all Republicans are tacitly agreeing. They are all guilty.

No. However in their defense most are uneducated and forbidden to used critical thinking skills.

It only takes a 5th grade intelligence to admire him. Once you hit 6th grade intelligence you understand differently.

Of course they can. People think differently and have different priorities. That doesn’t make them monsters or even unamerican. I refuse to believe that every democrat agrees with all democratic thinking; same with republicans. We’re all different and have varying values.

Having said that, anyone who voted for trump is probably not someone I’d have as a friend.

MAGA. motto “Lie, Cheat, Steal and Intimidate”

Ask Rudy Giuliani and Mike Lindell.

If they are a “low information” voter, sure.
If they are fully aware of what they are supporting, then no.

Or. As @canidmajor said, they judge themselves by different standards than me.
I think, at THIS point, it takes some extreme effort, to try and convince yourself that supporting Trump is somehow ethical.
The past 8 years, have been very telling about the conservatives in this country. Especially, those who proclaim they are “good Christian people.”

Just wow, do any of you who are so harsh even know a lot of Trump voters?

@JLeslie Being a Canadian, I have an American aunt that voted for The Don Father,we don’t talk politics, other than that Wulfie now there is a die hard Trump lover..,
Trump can do no wrong in wulfie’s eyes.

@JLeslie: yes, but mostly I avoid them, especially now, as they are mostly not vaxxed and don’t really believe Covid was real.
Most of us live in the world and know a bunch of people.

@JLeslie yes I do.

@JLeslie I’m in the middle of the Sons of the Confederacy and KKK – - – You bet your sweet. ASS I do !

@JLeslie I have to know them. My physical safety depends on it. And your insinuation is insulting.

I sat on my porch with trump supporters the other night and had to suffer listening to them blame Obamacare for their medical woes.
I asked who their insurance company was (who is really to blame) and he yelled “Obamacare!!”
Sigh.
Go Harris / Walz.

@Hawaii_Jake My safety depends on it too when we talk about the White Supremacist extremists. My husband is at risk with an even larger section of the Republican party than me. The alt-right wants to replace me, shoot up my places of worship, and deport my husband.

I perform outside in public every year for Chanukah and we all worry we can get shot!

I sometimes go to the weekly LGBT meet-up here, I think we are targets being there. Usually 100–150 of us.

Additionally, my sister is bisexual, my husband’s brother is gay.

I benefit from Evangelicals supporting Israel, and in turn are at this time in history protective of Jewish people, but there are plenty of KKK and other neo-Nazis in Central Florida.

Then there is a whole other part of the Republicans who aren’t racist, who don’t want to harm anyone, but just haven’t left the party and they vote for Trump.

In my opinion voting for any Republican right now is just reinforcing racism, hate, and authoritarianism, but it’s not that all Republicans fit that description.

@Tropical_Willie I’m not talking about the KKK. Obviously, they are horrible. Is that your only exposure to Republicans? You prove my point.

@Dutchess_III You I do believe have a lot of interaction with many different Republicans.

@canidmajor You avoid them, so then you don’t interact with large groups or a variety of them.

Oh, @JLeslie, you are frighteningly naïve. I avoid socializing with them, but I go out into the world and they are in restaurants and stores and neighborhoods and in public and all over.
There is a reason that we are harsh. And really, defending people who vote for Trump simply because they still vote Republican implies that they are too stupid to understand what he stands for. They are still voting for Trump.

Read the question. Actually read the words of the question. The big red words. You know, the one’s that say ”…admires and voted for Trump…”
It’s pretty clear.

@canidmajor I don’t know your definition of socializing, but most of my time socializing is spent with Democrats. I still have neighbors and friends who are Republicans though.

The main question here is do they see themselves as decent human beings. You think Trump voters who do charity work, take care of their families, and help their neighbors, feel negative about themselves?

@JLeslie “Just wow, do any of you who are so harsh even know a lot of Trump voters?” So what was your point?

Oh, @JLeslie, your desire to be an apologist for Trump supporters (not just republicans, but actual Trump supporters has been evident for years.
Be the champion. Good for you.

@canidmajor I’m not apologizing for them. This Q is about their POV about themselves, not our POV about what and who they are voting for. Maybe you are having trouble with the language in the original Q.

I just scrolled by a meme on facebook “If you believe that a man who went 77 years without a felony suddenly turned around and committed 92 felonies, you are brainwashed.” This posted by a very nice woman I know who teaches zumba who is originally from NY and now lives on the west coast of Florida.

We have a jelly who fully supports Trump, do you think he also feels he is a decent human being? I would guess yes.

My whole goal whenever I point out something that makes sense regarding Republican policy or even Trump policy is to help Democrats win elections and make our country a better place, not to help Republicans. I know a lot of Democrats can’t understand that.

@Dutchess_III My just wow is not targeted at you at all.

Yes it was. I am a “harsh critic” of trump.

@Dutchess_III I didn’t say harsh critic of Trump.

@JLeslie Unfortunately, for a lot of us, being harsh is a natural response.

This ignorance has gone on since I was in middle school. Always at the end of their attacks.
In some small town in Wisconsin, the faculty of a high school took official school pictures with nazi salutes. Not the kids, the adults teaching the kids…

It’s just gonna keep going and going and people are sick of it.

Billions of years of evolution lead to poisoned water due to lack of regulation (remember that derailed train in ohio?). And we all have to watch it because “don’t be mean to the Republicans we’re better than that.”

@Blackberry I’m sick of that same stuff, it’s horrifying.

I haven’t seen the Nazi solutes in school (dear God) but you can see back a few years on fluther just the use of the word “nationalist” or “nationalism” being defended by Republicans pissed me off and upset me. That is the stuff of the Nazis to me. I didn’t say, “ok, I see you’re a nice citizen in general,” I explained to them the history and why they can’t use whatever definition they want and I tried to show them exactly who they are aligning with.

I’m not defending Trumpers, this Q is about how they think about themselves.

No it’s how we think about them. and according to you @JLeslie, we’re being big meanies.
”...while speaking to a crowd in Tucson, Arizona, on Sept. 12, 2024, Trump spoke of what he called “transgender insanity” occurring in the U.S., and then said, “Can you imagine your child goes to school and they don’t even call you, and they change the sex of your child?”
At the risk of sounding harsh how could anyone with an IQ over 60 even buy such drivel?

@Dutchess_III I read the Q differently. Maybe the OP can clarify their intention with the Q.

@JLeslie I know you didn’t mean anything bad by it.

It’s just so sad we’re wasting time and potential with all these antics.

We all say time is precious and we have 1 life to live, so we should be doing massive reforms and sweeps to make peoples lives as comfortable as possible.

@Dutchess_III The Q specifies can an American who votes for and admires Trump consider himself a good human being.

Ah yes @jca2.

In that case of course they can. But I stand behind my 60 IQ comment.

@Blackberry 100% agree! Would you say Democrats are doing some of the antics? I know they have to do some of it, it’s part of the political game, but really, Democrats also have missed opportunities to make changes when they could have.

Although, I do fault the Republicans more for actually blocking legislation just to create havoc.

@Dutchess_III The Q specifies can an American who votes for and admires Trump consider himself a good human being.

If I were an admirer of trump and voted for him yet at the same time I was a good son, good father, good friend, good husband etc…I would’t see myself as a decent human being.

My admiration and support of trump would be a filthy stain on my humanity and my conscience will never allow me to forget it till the day I die. But…that…is just me.

@mazingerz88 I’d say it will only be a filthy stain to them if they can eventually see his actions as bad. Plenty of Germans were Nazis and were on board with Hitler, and not until Germany lost the war and the world condemned what happened did some of them have some shame about their decision to follow and support him. If Germany had won the war many of those same people would have gone to their grave feeling righteous. That’s my opinion anyway.

If Trump loses this election, most Trumpers will probably never feel badly about their support for him.

@JLeslie Oh yes of course.

For example, a prominent democratic politician in California (a straight married man) was discovered to be searching out young black poor males and drugging them for sex. Multiple have went missing and it was too late before people found out.

Who was thar @Blackberry?

Ok, I found article. Correction, it wasn’t a politician, but a huge donor to the democrats.
Name is Ed Buck. He was injecting sex workers with meth and killed 2.

Link @Blackberry!

@Blackberry Oh gosh, my mind was not going there at all. I was just thinking in terms of policy.

The link.

@JLeslie Oh yea kinda veered off track. But the biggest example would be how liberal the PNW was with drugs and homelessness. They tried decriminalized drugs and had to reverse course.

^The “drug war,” has cost the US countless lives, and dollars, with almost no real positive impact over like 30 years. I thought it was worth a try, legalizing everything. NOTHING else, does anything but pack our prisons, with fathers and mothers, who should be raising their children. Decriminalization, was (like many concepts,) something that needed to be tried, and evaluated and analyzed. In Seattle, yes, “YUGE liberal destruction of the country!”...
It was certainly a total failure, at serving the community, and deserves scrutiny.
However. Drug usage (especially of the harder/modern variety,) has unfortunately spread in a LOT of places in the US.
Laws, and or legal ramifications like fines, incarceration, or even death, have almost zero effect on crime.

Sorry to stay off the rails, but I felt that I needed to address that. It was a desperate attempt, that wasn’t the answer, for a problem with no answer. AND, it was not a malicious, stupid, or neglectful act. I’m sure, in retrospect, there are many things that could have been done differently.

It was better than lowering taxes on the wealthy, while simultaneously constantly cutting away funding for the many programs that address the actual problem; poverty…

By the way…..
Trump’s recent ludicrous comments about immigrants eating pets, has Springfield OH, feeling the weight of Trump’s false words, and spreading of false information.
If any Haitian immigrants, are found dead in the next week or so, we will again witness what Trump supporters, are supporting.

No one in Springfield, Ohio is going vote for a demented Turd running as a GOP candidate.

@Tropical_Willie Of course some will.

Springfield has a Republican Mayor, so I am guessing there are a good amount of citizens there who like Trump.

@jca2 But I have heard they were integrating the Haitian immigrants well.

@janbb i wasn’t implying anything about that.

@jca2 You seem to often think I’m arguing with you when I’m just adding information to your posts.

@janbb my sincerest apologies.

@MrGrimm888
I fully agree man. My earlier post was me extending an olive branch.
I know 100% a healthy person with hope for the future doesn’t do hard drugs like that.

Many of the reasons people are apathetic towards politics, are for the reasons you described:

Deep down we all know not much will be done to treat the real problems, because that’s gonna require making a lot of wealthy people mad.

^I’m not apathetic necessarily, about recent politics. Instead of the normal fucking, we’re going to get it deeper and nastier than ever, if “can you find me 11,000 votes/grab em by the pussy” Trump gets his crown.
The leadership of the US, may not leave the Trump family, in my lifetime.
Trump values loyalty, over any other trait. I could easily see him ceding the office to one if his kids, so he could still have some say until he dies.
His adult children, show similarly weak values, and strong loyalties. Ivanka tried to distance herself from her father some, and if not for his incestuous infatuation with her, he likely would have cut her loose.
Her idiot husband, and of course Jr, would make great puppets for rent by the wealthy. That’s assuming whomever gave him $500 million, doesn’t already have an arrangement…

I won’t vote. That would be consenting, to this stupid game.
But. I hope Harris wins, and Don is held responsible for his myriad of crimes.

If you hope Harris wins, why not help her by voting, game or not? Who are you teaching a lesson to? Yes, you are apathetic. I thought you’d be different than that.

Of course!

@smudges Apologies. But you and I, view voting in US elections differently.
I’m not trying to “teach” anyone, anything, by not voting.
I don’t have an IG page, or podcast, where I am seeking attention or pushing an agenda.

With all due respect to voters, I think you’re the apathetic ones. Or. Perhaps defeated, or understanding of your “place,” might be more appropriate.

If it makes you feel better about yourself or your country, or whatever, then vote. I am not trying or suggesting that you don’t.

☆As a SC resident, it wouldn’t matter, if I voted or not. We can thank the EC, for that.
If I vote for Harris, my state representatives will be polite enough to tell me whom I meant to vote for.
This has been a red state, and isn’t going to change any time soon.

To me, voting in a real democratic election, with authentic patriots, people of character, and people who want to serve their country (not just themselves,) I would greatly honor and treasure my vote.
Which I still do. Even in this dumpster fire, of a democratic republic.

Almost NONE of my interests, are represented by either of the current two candidates.

For starters, I would want an agnostic, or atheist, as a POTUS.
Not some sheep, who believes in an imaginary deity. I simply can’t (in good conscience,) by my own volition, hand a religious person the keys to the nukes. THAT’S fucking insane.
ALL religions, are fake.
ALL religions, are designed by men, to control people.
ALL religions, unfortunately, require interpretation, which means the already false words in religious texts, can be “interpreted” many ways.

As nobody really cares why I don’t vote anyways, I won’t go much further into it.
Suffice to say, I have so many problems with the US government on a systematic level, that I will never vote.

The American government’s operation, it’s constitution (in it’s current form,) it’s laws, how it enforces those laws, how the laws and tax codes are designed to further the gap of the wealthy and the poor, countless military conflicts, wars, how we treat our citizens, etc, etc, etc, ALL are in dire need of massive systematic changes.
Changes that wouldn’t help any wealthy people in their endless quest for more wealth, and therefore changes that will never happen.

Another thing, is that the past ten years, have illustrated that a third to half of the country, are indeed NOT DECENT PEOPLE.

Voting, is just to give you the illusion, that you actually have some control over what’s happening to you. You don’t…

Another thing, is that the past ten years, have illustrated that a third to half of the country, are indeed NOT DECENT PEOPLE.

That’s simply your opinion and definition. I lived in the south – TN, GA, NC – for over 25 years. With your closed-mindedness, you’re living in the perfect location. Again, I thought you were different.

Don’t bother with “apologies” when in the next paragraph you insult me and many people on fluther. I’m done.

^Yes. It was/is, my opinion.

It’s also my right;
A. Not to vote.
B. To exercise free speech.

If my opinion is SO outrageous, it shouldn’t carry any weight.
I won’t be voting, so you have nothing to be concerned about there.

You COULD have offered a counter argument…According to the media, NC, and GA, are swing states. SC, has been red since Carter, and for years before. That’s 50 years of being solid red.

You don’t get it. Even the candidates campaign, in the swing states more often, and practically ignore the rest.

There’s a reason why Trump picked a running mate that likened him to Hitler. He hopes to win Ohio. (Where Vance is from.)
It’s also why Trump made up the wild story about Haitians eating pets in Ohio. He’s trying to be their “savior,” from a problem he created.

Hillary, ignored “flyover country,” for the most part, in her campaigns. She lost, because of the Electoral College. The same thing that would essentially cancel my vote.

My vote is special. If I ever give it, it will be to a candidate that I am at least ok with running the country. Obama came close. But he bailed out the banks…He almost had me fooled!