How would you handle undocumented immigrants in the United States?

~ I would let them stay, and consider sending the bill, for any expenses, to the home country.

I only care about criminal elements being deported. If government assistance is needed past the first year, I would consider that a drain on resources and send them back. And to clarify this is only in regards to non-citizens who chose the illegal path in.
This issue has been happening for over 25 years, underbidding construction jobs, filling chicken plants, its not the immigrants fault it is clearly our policy.
No hate here but our collective safety is important and we must vet all immigrants from all countries and keep the numbers limited to what we can sustain.

I’d let all those people stay unless there is some compelling reason why they are problematic. They sound to me like they’re probably just earnestly trying to be Americans, and probably not causing any meaningful problems.

Deportation is not generally the answer. Close the border, provide an amnesty period where businesses can self-report illegals they are using for labor, and provide a path to citizenship for those who are working and their families. After the amnesty period make the consequences for hiring illegal workers so profound, that they wouldn’t dare. Seasonal work and temporary work visas should be easy to get. The remaining illegals should be dealt with on a case-case basis. Continue to keep the border closed but make the front door entry more streamlined so those wishing to immigrate legally can do so more realistically.

The oned that came seeking asylum in the past 4 years are supposedly, 90% not eligible for asylum. I’d send them back. They got Medicaid, they got shelter, in NYC they got restaurant food and cash cards, and WIC. I feel like send them back. If they want to appeal, apoeal from their home country. No need to stay here and continue with the Medicaid and all that, while filing appeal after appeal.

Asylum was and i believe still is for people fleeing persecution from the government, (a very specific and narrow criteria), not people who are seeking a better life.

1. Give all undocumented immigrants a chance to reveal themselves.

2. Since they were all supposed to have been given a date for an asylum hearing see if they checked in as required and if they went to their hearing. If all is good, move to number 3. If they haven’t checked in as required, deport. If they didn’t get an asylum hearing assigned, deport.

3. Do a thorough check on all the rest. Verify they are who they say they are. Verify they have no criminal past in their home country. Verify they have committed no crimes while being in the US. Any criminals past or present get deported.

4. If the person is from a nation that is hostile towards us (and we could establish which ones those are), round them up into internment camps until we can verify why they are in the country.

5. If we are to this point and the person is still here, then possibly start down the path of the same requirements of getting a Visa to legally immigrate. This generally involves a citizen sponsor or a business to sponsor them, filling out all the appropriate paperwork. One addition I would put is that they must be crime free for at least the next 5 years. Any criminal behavior and they are automatically deported.

6. For those with young children that were born in this country: if they need to be deported, deport them as a family. The child will have dual citizenship in our eyes and they can come back later in life as a citizen. We could give them documentation to that effect. I would say we get DNA sample of all children so when someone shows up later on, we can verify they are, indeed, the child that has grown up.

I agree with Trump: all those who who eat dogs or cats should be deported.

What you might see is a mass exodus of illegal immigrants before any policy gets enacted. The reasoning is simple: if they get deported, trying to re-enter legally is far more difficult. If they leave without being deported, they can conceivably come back in through legal channels later.

It’s not up to me to handle, just like it wasn’t up to anyone when colonizers landed.

Immigrants can move about the planet freely just like colonizers could. Liars, cheaters, and stealers, don’t get the right to be mad at other liars, cheaters, and stealers.

@Blackberry Let’s say we go with that plan. I actually wish borders could be wide open, but I don’t think it is realistic in modern society, but let’s say the US abides by what you said, should tax payer money be feeding and housing the people who wander over here?

perspective

Step 1: Stop fucking around in the countries to our south. That means stop supplying them with weapons from gun shows, supporting coups, exporting gangs, using the world bank to get these developing nations to help enrich our companies and not pass on the wealth from those resources to the people there.

Do these things and there is no Step 2. You’ll have to put guards on the border to keep US citizens from illegally leaving the US.

@JLeslie There is no real solution for many of the reasons stated already.

Humans have will and determination, especially if they have kids. People will get through.

We already have the cages, we already had corrupt doctors performing hysterectomies on women without their consent….what else can we do? If it involves an American being a better person, it’s simply not gonna happen.

They have been filing appeals and getting to stay here while their appeal is being seen. I think they should return to their home country and wait for the appeal process while there, since appeals can take years.

Right now, there is a 10 year wait for the asylum applications to be handled. The news said 90% of the asylum applications are not eligible for asylum.

From a law enforcement perspective, it won’t be possible.
It takes a LOT of resources to track down, process, and transport an illegal back to their country of origin. IF that country accepts deportees…

I watched an interview with one of the big wigs at I.C.E. who was talking about the cost.
He wanted to do it, and was very pro-Trump, but admitted it wouldn’t be possible.
He mentioned that they had hypothesized that if America focused primarily on deportations, we could aim for a million per year being deported. But the costs would be astronomical for man power, and there are an estimated 15–20 million illegal immigrants currently in the country.

SOOOOOO. The process will be extraordinarily expensive, and if it takes 20 years to work, I’m not sure how that it supposed to help.
It should go without saying, anyone remotely resembling a potential illegal, should expect a nazi Germany feel. They will need multiple forms of ID, I guess with them at ALL times.

People being stopped for citizenship verification, will also occasionally be found with narcotics, and/or firearms.
Which is PRECISELY why the “stop and frisk” policy, was considered racist, as it resulted in more minorities in prison.

The deportations, will have a twofold strategy there.
Stop all brown people.
If they’re illegals, deport them.
If they happen to have contraband on them, they go to prison.
Either way. Folks. You can expect to see less brown people.

Crime in Latino communities will skyrocket, as the people are already reluctant to call the police and now will probably never call. They probably won’t cooperate with police either, as any information would mean possibly losing their friends or family.

It should greatly deepen the racial division, between the white people (who deserve to be here,) and everyone else who is just “vermin.”..

As with most of Trump’s bigger plans, it will not really be possible…
Notice Trump still says the border is THE threat, but he didn’t bother pushing his wall idea again.
He STILL doesn’t know what he’s doing, and his sheep still don’t understand, or care…

Wulf. You silly goose. You’re amnesty plan, won’t help rid the country of brown people…~

I really like the idea. Seriously.

@jca2 ” I think they should return to their home country and wait for the appeal process while there, since appeals can take years.”

Do you understand that people file for Asylum because they fear for their safety in their home country? Returning them home is a death sentence for many…

He said there willl be no limit to what they spend, although it’s definitely true it’s not realistic to send them all back. They’ll start with the ones who get arrested and maybe the ones in shelters in NYC and other sanctuary cities – they’re going to be vulnerable because they’re already “captured.”

It will be interesting for sure.

@gorillapaws I do understand that. I also understand that the reasons for asylum are very limited and persecution by one’s government is one reason, but just wanting a better life, better food, more opportunities is not a reason. Regardless, it’s not up to me, it’s up to the laws and the new administration will sort it all out. I didn’t vote for them, and my father is full Hispanic from Mexico, so I can see both sides of the dilemma. I just know that NYC and now the surrounding areas, migrants have become an issue, especially with bail reform.

@MrGrimm888 As always, my goal has nothing to do with skin color. It has to do with legal immigration. And as always, I believe the law needs to be applied equally across all spectrums.

@gorillapaws “Do you understand that people file for Asylum because they fear for their safety in their home country?” I understand that if I were in fear for my life in my country, I would go to the nearest place I could be safe. When we have people from almost every country in the world pouring in across the southern border, for them to claim asylum is laughable. At one point, under Trump, Mexico was meeting the caravans coming up from Central and South America and offering those people asylum. Offering it to them. They all declined saying they didn’t need asylum and that they wanted to go to the USA.

Asylum is a specific thing. It isn’t “I want a better life” or “I don’t like what my government is doing” or “I don’t like who just got elected”. It is more like “I’m a Christian and my government has put a bounty out on all Christians”. The standard for asylum is that the first country a person that is fleeing comes to that offers a situation where their life is no longer threatened because of their religious or political beliefs or racial heritage (or whatever the specific threat to their life was) is the one that they get asylum in. If you are shopping around for whatever country can give you the most stuff, you aren’t seeking asylum.

https://www.usa.gov/asylum

Nowhere in the qualifying reasons is “seeking a better life.”

Anybody should be able to come to the US to work who wants to as long as they abide by the laws of society.

@Caravanfan Now you are describing legal immigration. There are Visas to enter the country for work. What truly baffles me is that getting a Visa, for a law abiding citizen, is easier, safer, and cheaper than traveling the thousands of miles to try sneaking into the country.

@seawulf575 Yes. Exactly. Everybody should be able to come in legally.

@Caravanfan Coming in legally and being considered legal no matter how you enter are two different things. The difference is the matter of law. I have no problem with legal immigration. That allows us to ensure the people coming in are not criminals, aren’t bringing contraband into the country, aren’t trafficking humans, etc. Legal immigration can be a great thing. That’s why so many that legally immigrated here are so upset at all the illegals that are coming in and they are not for legitimizing those entries.

But even entering legally does not mean “everybody” should be allowed in. As I mentioned there are those that we don’t want in our country for a great number of reasons.

@seawulf575 The border should be open. We should not have closed immigration.

@Caravanfan in your opinion, should migrants be given housing, restaurant food, Medicaid, at taxpayers expense? I’m not arguing, just looking for clarification.

I think someone thinks like Trump, “Can’t you shoot them below the knees” anybody that disagrees with him . . .

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/09/1097517470/trump-esper-book-defense-secretary

@gorillapaws I agree that if the countries to our south were doing better we wouldn’t have such a large influx of people. I don’t know the details of how the US might contribute to the problems in those countries, I don’t doubt we have done some things that made and make things worse either selfishly or thinking it would be good but wound up having a negative result in the end.

Doesn’t change that many of the countries south of us have their own systems that create a large underclass. Lack of education, low pay, corrupt governments, unsafe, and the US dollar is worth more than their currency. 3 months of work in the US could pay what they make in 6 months to a year in their country.

Some countries are much better than others obviously, I am not wanting to overgeneralize. Even people in countries around the world with reasonable stability and wealth want to come to the US, just not in the numbers we from Latin America, but that’s because Latin Americans can walk here. If Sudan, Kenya, Lithuania, Romania were at our border they would be coming in bigger numbers.

@jca2 Yes.

@JLeslie We did a lot of harm during the Cold War days to fight the spread of communism. Reagan’s war on drugs also caused a lot of harm. And then the exploitation of people and country with huge reserves of abundant and valuable resources who have been exploited to enrich global corporations is another major factor. An interesting read is Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. It’s not limited exclusively to Central and South America, but they were areas where we did a lot of damage.

I couldn’t read the link, but I agree the war on drugs did harm in multiple ways.

Still, the US had things like labor unions mid 1900’s that helped to create a huge middle class. K12 education for all, industrialization, more women’s rights, and even more birth control than a lot of these countries. All things that I think really matter, and as a side note, many of these things the right wing of the Republican party is trying to dismantle. It’s mind boggling to me.

^It’s interesting to think about how different America would be, if it weren’t for the “war on drugs.”
A LOT of Americans ended up serving massive sentences for minor drug offenses, and a LOT of those people were fathers.

The people selling drugs, or considered distributors, were sent away forever. Wallstreet’s elite (white people,) got sent to lavish rehab facilities…

Worst of all the effect on the drug problem in America, after decades of pouring resources into it, is difficult for the most optimistic to point out.

A LOT of problems south of the border, came from the US, Europe, and Asia, taking advantage of resources. That’s true GP.
A LOT of their problems stem from illegal resources, like the ability to grow and process large amounts of drugs and smuggle them to the US.
America is one of the largest black market drug consumers, in the world.
The US, drives the demand, that has developed into many scenarios where the most ruthless people formed powerful cartels. These cartels are essentially at war, with the nations they reside in.
In some cases, the governments are in a stalemate with or are losing to, drug money fueled cartel armies.

It’s important to note that finding large amounts of firearms from the US, in cartel hands, is not infrequent.

The people coming from the south, are mostly fleeing harsh violence in their home nations.

The truth is, IF America stopped buying drugs, a LOT of the problems forcing this mass immigration would stop…

These aren’t convoys of u-haul dragging SUVs, full of people looking for even greener pastures.
The immigrants are dragging their children (on foot typically,) and losing everything to try to get to America. And wisely, some are hoping to get to Canada.

@MrGrimm888 I completely agree that demand for drugs in America drives the drug business.

Your comment about fathers being jailed for drugs is a comment about the US I assume, but I was describing the US doing better overall economically. Putting people in jail for drugs affected a small portion of our population (still important and very often unjust) but in many Latin American countries the effects of what I talked about affects the majority of the population.

I did some googling for links to support my statement.

Birth rates see list of countries: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_fertility_rate

Average education, and keep in mind it would likely be lower in the 1900’s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_median_years_of_schooling

Many Latin American countries it’s customary to have housekeepers and nannies living with you. My SIL had a maid living with them in Dom Rep, which meant that the maid didn’t live most of the time with her own children. I’m pretty sure that was the case in Mexico too.

I would say that mass incarceration of minorities effected those minorities, for generations.

George W. Bush, saw himself become POTUS, despite a drug involved lifestyle. AND reputed “cocaine parties at Camp David.”

The war on drugs significantly negatively effected the minorities, exponentially worse than Caucasians.

Minorities are more likely to be convicted, more likely to get longer sentences, and be denied parole.

Hunter Biden, would likely have been incarcerated (or killed/OD’d,) if he wasn’t Joe’s son.

Sentences for drug related charges, ARE being reduced.
But. Some will say that’s only because the recent “opium” problem, affected the white community…

@MrGrimm888 Absolutely the war on drugs negatively impacted minorities more than whites in America, and probably Black Americans the most compared to other groups, but @gorillapaws and I were discussing why Latin Americans migrate to America.

I’m not sure your point, maybe I am missing something.

@Caravanfan Interesting. So we shouldn’t have borders, anyone should be allowed in whenever for whatever reason and we should give them all the benefits of citizenship at the expense of taxpayers who often aren’t allowed all those same benefits. So why have laws? Why have taxes? Why have a country? Your view is a recipe for no country. Eventually we would be invaded by some other country that has laws and doesn’t allow everyone in and then you would live under someone else’s rules…someone that would treat you like crap if you dared to speak out about it.

@seawulf575 Straw manning your answer as usual.

I just saw on NBC Nightly news here, NYC news, they’re looking at contracting with private prison contractors to build camps to confine migrants to ship them back, in areas like NYC, Philadelphia, etc.

@jca2 and the process may take 10 to 20 years unless Trump just starts machine gunning them at the front gate . . . !

Supposedly they’re rounding them up.

@jca2 This is unlikely to start until Trump is sworn in.

Yes of course @snowberry.

We have always had detention centers for immigration. The liberals with microphones are now calling them camps I guess.

I’m not in favor of putting everyone in a “prison” but to put it in perspective, they can go back to their countries. They need shelter, it’s better than a tent city.

Actually, I’m not in favor of spending a lot of money on it, I’m sure Trump’s construction friends love the idea.

I still think we find cities that need the labor and need more population.

Despite whatever conservatives say, there have been agencies working 24/7 already, at finding and deporting illegal immigrants.
It wasn’t paused, during Biden’s years…
It’s just a very expensive, and resource draining process.

It helps, if the illegal has a record here, or a warrant.
That can ramp up efforts, but it’s still hard to find a person who could be in several different countries.

We cannot simply “round them up.”
I don’t believe many people know how hard it is, to figure out who someone is, or even what language they are speaking.

As a former LEO, my experience with illegals, is that they usually play dumb, until they can’t.
Handcuffs, actually have magical powers of teaching people instant English when applied. But it could take days, to figure out if the person actually understands what is happening. As it IS America, we try to respect human rights, and do things through legal processes that treats people like people.

There’s just not a respectful/lawful way, of detaining US citizens wrongfully, because they don’t have an ID on them.
US citizens, have rights, even if they are not white.

The ability to move around our country, without concerns about law enforcement harassment or a militarized environment, is one of our most sacred freedoms.

Privatizing prisons, is unconstitutional. Private prisons, have horrendous reputations, and they create a system that profits off of incarceration. With their only purpose being, to hold as many people as possible, regardless of health and safety regulations.

The FACT that a person has a chance of being raped, in a correctional facility certainly qualifies as “cruel and unusual punishment,” to me…
You have the right to a speedy/reasonably swift trial, as well.

As usual, Trump doesn’t know or care about the realities of complex issues.
And this mass deportation, is a really fucking stupid idea.
Only because it’s impossible, would cause countless civil rights violations, and of course wouldn’t stop ANY people from just coming back…..

@MrGrimm888 Are they going to be in small cells with bars like a prison? I didn’t read it that way. I read the above as Trump is looking at contracting a company that builds prisons. There’s no reason it can’t be temporary shelter that has larger rooms with a proper bathroom like a dormitory and able to lock their own doors. Our military have that type of accommodation and I lived like that in college. My sister lived in a 300 sq ft studio for years with a small loft space for storage.

What makes it like prison is if they can’t leave the property. Aside from me not wanting anyone to lose their freedom of movement for a long length of time, I don’t think any Americans want to pay for immigrants to live in an actual prison type setting, not even Trumpers. I think most Americans prefer giving people working papers and letting them be productive for themselves and society.

Why are you talking about detaining US Citizens? How did that come up?

Edit: I’m completely against private prisons.

^These people will have been dragged from their homes, or workplaces. They WILL be separated from family. Possibly forever.
One Trump supporter ICE agent was asked about what families should do, if they lose loved ones to the mass deportations.
He said “the family can leave with the illegal.”
They WANT this to rid the country of as many brown people as possible, and stop them from coming here, or possibly becoming a citizen.
It’s obvious.

I personally heard about the immigration detention centers on the border, from NPR.
At the time, conditions were visibly bad. Some people just had emergency blankets, and it was cold (to try to prevent disease from spreading.)
People who had Covid, were being put in with people who didn’t. Upper respiratory illnesses were rampant, as was theft and rape.
Families WERE deliberately separated.

There is no existing system or infrastructure, for such a mass deportation.
They will HAVE to process people somewhere. That somewhere, will ABSOLUTELY be prison-like.
It will have to really be planned out well. But, then you see who is doing the planning.

To fully commit to removing millions of people, they will HAVE to devise a system not unlike the trains and camps in Nazi Germany.
The Nazis told the Jews, they were just taking them somewhere too.
Then. Things escalated, quickly.

@JLeslie If you “look” Mexican, but can’t prove you aren’t, you WILL be detained, and it could take hours, weeks, months, to prove you aren’t someone else.
That’s why it’s important to note, such a mass action, will catch a LOT of actual citizens. It is hard not to see there being accidental arrests, and accidental shootings of brown people, in the process.
I’m not a fan.

@MrGrimm888 They won’t be able to deport 10 million people. It costs too much and just unfeasible for many reasons. They will be able to deport thousands of people though. People act like we didn’t ever deport before Trump, we did.

If a family member is here illegally, yes, one might get deported while others stay. You think just because someone has family here they should be able to come? Are you in the same camp as @Caravanfan; you want wide open borders?

If a parent is here without papers and their 2 year old is American, that gives them a right to stay in the US? That just encourages babies being born, that’s not a good idea if the parents are poor. I assume a lot of the new immigrants coming in don’t have much money.

Deep sigh….
Not general admission, no.

Hundreds of thousands of foreign people are educated to the highest standards here, each year.
Some of the brightest, and best, in their fields, will not even have the option to stay, and contribute to this country.
They will take the knowledge they learned here, but it will be advantageous elsewhere.

Science has proven, that there is great strength in diversity.
I believe that what gives the US the edge over many competitors, is our vast and varied population.

If you look at a research team, for say NASA’s JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory,) you’ll notice immediately that they construct teams of people from many backgrounds. Not JUST Science people.
These teams comprised of so many different people, with such diverse backgrounds, help them do some of humanity’s best work.

I am also aware of inevitable change.

And, the futility of fighting it.

People with babies, have to work. That means they need a social security number.
That means they pay income taxes (if applicable.)
When they buy stuff, for their baby, they pay sales tax, and contribute to capitalism.

If someone is coming here, with malicious intentions, about harming the country, I’d rather those people not be here.
Fortunately. Such people, do not really exist.
They only live, in false anecdotal podcasts.

People who give up everything, and walk, climb, swim, crawl to the US, are NOT lazy/worthless people (not that you said they were JL.)

People, are the most valuable of ALL resources.
American is not remotely “full.”
If funded, and tended correctly, the border would not be such s problem.

To do it right, the system needs sweeping changes.

But. It must be taken seriously, and the people who are coming here have human rights.

It IS a crime, to enter the country illegally.
In a perfect world, it wouldn’t happen. But we live here.

The Statue of Liberty, says we do take all kinds.
We should honor that, as it IS or was, the American way.
If this is how we are going to behave, I believe that the Statue of Liberty, should be destroyed.

@MrGrimm888 I am with Lady Liberty, we take the tired and the poor, not just the wealthy who can buy in. I support that.

Just need to be a little realistic and logical about how fast we can absorb people. The burden on the country. If we want to keep the US a great place to come to we can’t ruin it economically or significantly reduce the safety. Safety includes safe housing, healthcare, low crime, everything safety related.

It would be nice to make the journey to the border safer for immigrants too.

It will be interesting to see what they do and how they do it. They seem determined to get it done and the new guy Homan seems like he isn’t playing around. I did hear him say that if there’s any concern about families being broken up, they can all go back to stay together.

@JLeslie If they make a shelter with doors where they can leave at their will, and the individual knows they’re being deported, why would they willingly stay in the shelter? I would think the whole point of the camp or whatever it’s going to be referred to as would be to detain people that they have caught, not let them leave and disappear.

@jca2 If they are in detention they can’t leave the detention property. There are family detention centers that feel more like dorms than prisons. Some have school for kids.

There is detention to be deported and detention when first coming in. Two different things, but some overlap.

I googled and some detention centers are literally like prisons or actual converted prisons with some of the same guards working there as when it was a prison. Conditions are very bad. There are some detention centers that have more comfortable rooms and places for kids to play. There is a variety around the country.

One video I watched had men waiting a month in detention and then flying back to their home countries. They talked about leaving their country because local drug organizations were threatening them if they did not cooperate. What I couldn’t help thinking was, what about a safer area in their own country? One guy was from Panama, Panama is very large. I have Panamanian friends who go back to their country often. Not that I fault them for wanting to come to the US, they hear stories of how it will be better here.

My husband’s own parents came to the US when he was a teenager, because some very dangerous people were threatening his father, but they came with money and to open a business, and so the situation was different. They were here for two years and then went back.

After watching the videos I even more think the private ownership of detention centers are a racket and flat out wrong. I also still think having more availability of work visas could solve a lot. I think then immigrants could travel back and forth more freely. As it is, once an undocumented immigrant is here, they are unable to leave in fear they won’t be able to come back in or don’t want to do the trip again.

@JLeslie ive never heard an outcry against people who come from India and places like that, and I’m guessing it’s because they’re not looking for shelters, medicaid and restaurant food, they’re often staying with relatives, college educated, looking for work, solidly middle class.

^Yeah. BIG difference.
But EVERY person, has potential to likely add something to the country. Even if they just pay taxes…

@jca2 Right. They fly here with visas, they aren’t walking across the border.

That’s why I reject calling it all based on racism. It’s about the numbers of people and the burden on the country. I’m sure some people are being racist, but not everyone concerned about immigration is being racist.

We do still have people float to Florida too, from Haiti and Cuba. Float makes it sound calm, it can be fairly dangerous to make the trek.

Ive had friends who are children of immigrants, who came here in the 50s from Ireland and Germany point t that nobody gave their parents restaurant food and free shelter and medical insurance.

People from other countries will jump on the bandwagon of calling the US racist regarding immigration, but plenty of those same countries have strict immigration laws and money requirements for people wanting to go there or guarantees family will support them. Canada is one of them.

Edit: I’m actually in favor of letting poor people into the US and even helping them initially, and especially refugees coming from dire circumstances, but we can only do so much of it. The refugees and real asylum seekers is when we should help with tax money. There are also charitable organizations of course.

Nationalism, is in the rise almost everywhere.
Large populations, keep getting displaced by war, disease, religious violence, and famine.

It’s really more apparent, in Europe. They absorbed so many Muslims, they will see women in black burkas and occasionally the men abusing the women.
People are proud of their cultures, and I understand the uneasiness of accepting change.

To me, it’s hypocritical, Un-American, and morally wrong, to be SO selfish. I don’t care, what some Podcaster says, we could easily absorb the wave from the south. IF we did it correctly, and gave the issue massive funding.

Personally, I think immigrants are the most patriotic.
The ENTIRE population of America, are not from America…

The least we could do, is not dehumanize, villanize these poor people, and treat them like a human with human rights…

I want to concur regarding the patriotism of immigrants. On the whole they are the most appreciative and grateful for the United States of America and know first hand the contrast between their former country and the US.

^They care more about America, than most Americans…

@MrGrimm888 Plenty of Americans who have been here many generations are patriotic, but some of them question the patriotism of immigrants and say they aren’t real Americans, and that pisses me off beyond belief.

I really hate when any American accuses another American of not caring about the US. Even people without citizenship can be very patriotic, they serve in our military, many of them want to be citizens but are in a waiting period.

^Yep. And it’s not like people don’t already take some of their cultures with them here.

Lots of people represent their heritage, in some way. Even if it’s just that one coffee mug with an Italian flag on it.

Food from other cultures, is usually my type of food. (Not always.) Where would I be, if Italian people couldn’t make and sell Italian food? (For example.)

I would document them.

And after documenting them you could tax them.

Apparently Trump is going to set-up “The Gestapo” using Armed Forces. Including bringing thousands of troops back from overseas bases. (Bet ya Putin is loving that).

^I heard. I’m NOT ok with this plan.

Im kinda hoping he didn’t actually use the word gestapo but wouldn’t be surprised if he had

@Lightlyseared Or maybe he said gazpacho?

Today he said the first to be deported will be the criminals.

^Other than Trump’s genius, how exactly are we supposed to know who the criminals are?..

This is stupid banter, by the right. REALLY stupid.
That’s definitely a concept that someone with absolutely zero understanding of the world, would say. “Start with the criminals.”

First off, if you’re an illegal, you are a criminal.

I can tell you from experience, that law enforcement already takes illegals who are committing crimes, or are wanted.
But. They let normal illegals go, because there’s nowhere to put them.
If ICE raids a home, and there are 12 illegals there, they only take the ones that are wanted in their home country/interpol, or those with warrants.

American’s privatized prisons, are already exponentially over capacity.

This is why people like me, are assuming that there WILL be “camps,” or places for mass incarceration.

It’s possible that they may have to privatize these camps, as well.
Privatization, is likely to ultimately mean that these places will be awful for whomever is kept there.

They’re going to just do, whatever they plan. In the meantime, they have to keep people from seeing what’s coming. Or they won’t let it happen.

Trump, and apparently the people who voted for him, want less brown people. They weren’t kidding, and as the task of deporting upwards of 20+ million people, is impossible, they’re going to get started ASAP, and the plan will be aggressive and military-like.

Seems to me they should start with gangs trying to or succeeding in taking over whole apartment blocks. And perhaps people like Laken Riley will not need to fight off an illegal for 17 minutes until he bashed her head in with a rock. I know a lot of people demonize Democrats for illegal immigrant crime and you all tend to deny it. But innocent elderly, disabled and children are being victimized and someone has to step up for them. That is why Trump won and ya’ll still don’t seem to get it. It is real and it does happen, and a lot of us watch news that actually reports it.

@KNOWITALL Agreed. I watch it every night on the news from NYC. Migrants ganging up on the cop in Times Square earlier in the year, which was horrible, and that’s just the beginning. People who are not from sanctuary areas don’t see it.

@KNOWITALL I agree too, and even way back 8 years ago if the fluther search worked, you would see I agreed that MS13 was a real problem, and some of their gang members are coming in through a porous border. Moreover, if they are committing violent crimes even if they have greencards they should be stripped of the card and sent back or put in jail, which is the current law.

What I have always disagreed with is calling all immigrants who come across “criminals.” I’m not going to put a guy who wants to work the fields or construction to help feed his family under the same criminal label as a killer.

The Democrats need to wake up to some of the problems, but the Republicans also need to think about the language they use.

So. Conservative border state deliberately busses immigrants to large cities, and drops them there with nothing on the street.
Ok. So they will have to at least steal, to eat.
Yeah. It’s a fair situation all around.~

@MrGrimm888 I can’t speak to all cities, but I can tell you that in NYC, the migrants are put in hotels (free shelter), fed restaurant food (that’s a fact) and there is fresh fruit and vegetables, also, among regular meals in the shelters (but the migrants felt it wasn’t in alignment with their culture which is why they were given restaurant food), cash cards, Medicaid so their medical needs were taken care of, and all other kinds of things. Free. So they weren’t dropped with nothing on the street, they were dropped with their needs fully taken care of. Then, I am guessing that some (not all but some) felt the need to commit crimes to supplement what they were given by the city. In addition, they are now recruiting teenage migrants to commit crimes, because the law is more lenient with children so the teenagers can get away with more. This is all on the nightly news (NBC news is what I watch, so it’s neither leaning right nor left) and in the New York Times, which leans left so they’re not anti-migrant by a long shot.

@JLeslie I do agree to some extent. But in my area it has affected construction significantly for Americans displaced by underbidding via illegal migrants for over 20 years.
While I wish all immigrants well in all endeavors, it does and has affected many Americans negatively.
I won’t belabor the point but there has to be balance and limits on immigration to what we can feasibly support.
And many of us know all the benefits @jca2 points out, and it is NOT okay with us.
Help is one thing, but not helping them more than Americans.
Wheres my neighbors hotel and credit card when they lose their home in foreclosure?

@KNOWITALL I think we are mostly agreeing.

Are you saying undocumented immigrant owners are underbidding construction? Or, Americans who employ undocumented workers are underbidding? Either way it is an argument to have more work visas available, hold businesses accountable for employing people without papers, and then it would reduce the problem.

The problem is for as long as I can remember the government overall looks the other way at illegal immigration, partly because the current policy is inadequate and there is sympathy for people here without papers who work hard and love America themselves. Once people are here for 5+ years, I think it becomes really sad to rip them from their new established life, and very hard on children. I think time matters.

Immigrants who have been here had to work and stay with relatives, if they didn’t have anything in their pockets. They weren’t given the things the new migrants are being given. I think this is what helped Trump win – he did way better with Hispanics than any Republican in the past, and I believe it’s partly because the Hispanics that are here said “nobody gave us shelter, restaurant food, and Medicaid” and also other groups like veterans, who haven’t been given all those things were resentful, as well.

NYC had to hire 120k new school personnel to handle the migrants. That’s a lot of money being spent that is going on the backs of the taxpayers. Many feel it’s wonderful and we should stop at nothing to absorb these people, and many feel like it’s too much.

At the very least, you would think the ones that are being given all these things would at least try to obey the law while they’re here.

@JLeslie Do you know any Americans living outside the US who don’t have legal or financial responsibilities in their new country? I do not. In fact in Mexico and Belize they pay a hefty monthly fee for the privelage of living there.
No I dont agree that time justifies illegal entry, sorry.

@KNOWITALL I’m sure there must be examples of people living in other countries illegally, but it is true many other countries have fees to live there as you stated.

@jca2 I used to have to work with a lot of illegals, when we built a new bridge about 20 years ago.
They have very hard lives.
I am all for hearing about personal experiences.
Do you have anything that isn’t from NBC? No disrespect. But things on any media,are difficult to trust.

JL. Most of the world’s construction, has an illegal immigrant element. It varies.

The massive construction projects in China, and in the Middle East, draw millions of people from everywhere, and it’s unlikely to change any time soon.

Undocumented, or illegal immigrants, often are easily neglected or treated poorly, and unlikely to complain.

@JLeslie My brother in law and family just moved to Mexico 20 miles south of Cancun. I assure you they are legal, as other countries do not play nice like America.
As I’ve mentioned I was met by machine guns and military at the airport in Mexico. If we have to instill a little fear, as they do, perhaps that is not a bad thing.

@KNOWITALL ” I know a lot of people demonize Democrats for illegal immigrant crime and you all tend to deny it.”

Statistically, immigrants commit crimes a lower rate than non-immigrants. If crime were your concern, you’d be better off advocating the deportation of US citizens at random and you’d have a lower crime rate. If you deported every undocumented immigrant and asylum seeker tomorrow, changing nothing else, the crime rate would increase. And that’s a mathematical fact.

@KNOWITALL All of those people trekking through Mexico from Central America to the US are in Mexico illegally.

Americans tend to emigrate legally, we are a wealthy country.

Spain had trouble with Africans coming in illegally. I’m not sure where that stands now. Germany and France both have more illegal immigrants than you might think from parts of the Middle East.

The US has a set up where we have a land border that separates the US, a developed nation, from third world nations. Most of the world is not in that situation.

Found this about illegal immigration around the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Government%20of,illegal%20immigrants%20in%20the%20world.

@jleslie i know Italy had a big problem with people coming in boats from Africa, a few years ago. Not sure what’s happening recently.

That’s a great point GP.
Legal/American people, commit far more crimes.

From what I understand, Europe’s right-wing parties are growing stronger, as a result of their absorbing immigrants.

There IS a national security concern, regarding the vetting of people trying to immigrate being rushed or overlooked.
But.
There is an element of nationalism, as well.

People have always been moved around, by different circumstances.
I guess, that’s where I think it’s ignorant to think that one can stop change.

Hitler was effective at ethnic cleansing, but he had do industrialize the process to move all the Jewish people.
The events leading to that genocide, and World War, are uncomfortably similar to the events leading up to WWII.

It is time to be very careful, with such things. Even if one is indifferent, or wants mass deportations, the day may come when they come for them…

I think some of you need to watch Lakens court case. Of course it could have been some middle-aged white guy, but it wasnt.
Next youll tell me white women have more abortions than any other race, and most serial killers are middle-aged white men. Come on, guys, you know some of these people coming in are horrible humans. We certainly dont need MORE of those.

@KNOWITALL I’m not sure if you followed Scott Roeder but he killed a physician in cold blood with no remorse because of his anti abortion views. Perhaps we should deport all anti-choice people due to their extremist and violent nature?

…or perhaps we shouldn’t generalize about a group based on the actions of an individual from that group? What makes more sense to you?

@gorillapaws It’s not “an individual.” If it were “an individual,” it would not be so bad. Maybe in your area it’s not so bad, but in certain areas, maybe sanctuary cities and other areas, it’s bad.

@jca2 I was making the point about the overall immigrant population having a lower crime rate overall than the rest of the population. @KNOWITALL was the one who brought in the example of an individual. My counter-example was to make the point that individuals are not a good way to evaluate populations. You’re agreeing with me.

If one wants to reduce crime primarily through deportation, deport all men to Testiclia. ;-)

@gorillapaws All Pro-Lifers know about Dr Tiller. We do not approve, of course. How many other Pro-Lifers committed murders for the cause? Less than BLM for sure.
Not all illegal immigrants are bad, no one is saying that. But because Dems imported so many without due diligence, we have no way of knowing so take out the ones obviously not looking for a peaceful life like MS13 and other gangs. I doubt Jose and Maria that work and are good people would aporeciate it, too.

Yes illegal immigrants are not all bad or criminals, but the ones we know are criminals like the ones taking over specific areas in mostly liberal cities, are obvious.
And with Lakens murderer, we flew him in free, gave him free shit and he killed an American out for a jog

@KNOWITALL “Not all illegal immigrants are bad,”

Exactly. In fact, statistically, they’re “less bad” than the average American citizen. There are zero people opposed to prosecuting violent gang members. That’s a straw man.

@gorillapaws Where did I say all illegal immigrants were criminals?
The volume is so high its not feasible to have each in court so what is your solution?

@KNOWITALL “what is your solution?”

1. Stop ruining other countries.
2. Hire more people to process asylum claims in a timely manner.
3. Spend more time appreciating the value and important role undocumented workers play in the American economy/culture and ultimately our way of life. Just like the Jews, Irish, Italians, Chinese, Japanese and others immigrant groups that were demonized at the time but ultimately contributed to the strength of the fabric of America.

Democrats said screw the limits, let them in and still lost the election. So what do you think was the rationale behind the huge numbers they let in?

@gorillapaws “statistically, they’re “less bad” than the average American citizen.” I’ve heard this claim before, but when I look into it, they aren’t talking about just illegal immigrants. The claim is “immigrants” lumping legal immigrants into the mix as well. Where are your stats for just illegal immigrants?

As for your solutions, while I’m not a big fan of American intervention all around the world, we are getting illegals from just about every country of the world. We didn’t ruin those countries. Even many of the countries in the Americas have not been “ruined” by America. They often managed to let corruption and violence take control all on their own.

As for hiring more people to process asylum claims, the answer is very simple: follow the definition of asylum to turn people away at the border. 99% of those coming here are not seeking asylum. They are looking for a better life, but not fleeing for their lives. Typically asylum seekers are first refugees. And what is ironic about the claims like this that you make, Obama caught heat for taking actual asylum seekers, Christians who were from Syria where they were hunting, torturing and killing Christians for being Christians, and sending them back to their homeland. Yet none of the open border crowd even batted an eye and actually tried defending the decision.

And appreciating the value of immigrants is done. Appreciating illegal immigrants is not. Immigration itself is not a bad thing if it is controlled with order and purpose. Just saying that anyone that comes across the border is worthy of loving and clinging onto is ignorant.

@KNOWITALL I know! I know! Flood states to increase Dem support in different places for more political power. That’s why all the big numbers. That is also supported by the idea that places like California are actually pushing to let non-citizens vote in our elections.

^You’re saying dems told illegals to go to Texas, so Texas could distribute them to help dems win elections?..

Is it SO hard, to think for yourself?

@MrGrimm888 No, they invited them into the country so Biden could ship them all over the nation. You conveniently forget that part.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/27/biden-is-hiding-illegal-immigration-with-secret-flights/

https://youtu.be/frxwlRyn0CQ

https://youtu.be/-uIaYGTFZK4

https://www.yahoo.com/news/psaki-confirms-illegal-immigrants-being-185839952.html

I could keep going as the articles are quite numerous, but you won’t open any of them anyway and if you did, you’d either deny facts or you’d go into some Hate Trump rant that was off topic. Or you’d just make a personal attack on me. Is it SO hard to face reality?

^If someone had the powers that you have been conditioned to believe, Trump would certainly not be president Wulf.

Is THAT why you’re so cranky lately? Because absolutely NONE, of your deep state conspiracy theories were true?

@MrGrimm888 Of course those powers were wielded. Look at the lawfare. Look at the propaganda. Look at the efforts to target Conservatives. Look at the efforts to censor all conservative thoughts online. That was all done by the ones you claim are so innocent.

You want proof? Okay, why did Nathan Wade meet with WH counsel and the J6 committee not once but twice leading up to the indictments? Why did Fani Willis fly to DC to meet with Kamala? Why was one of the highest ranking people in the DOJ suddenly appointed to Alvin Bragg’s staff? Why did whistleblowers come out in droves to report all the underhanded things the DOJ and the WH have been doing? The fact you don’t want it to be true doesn’t make it false. It makes you delusional.

“The fact you don’t want it to be true doesn’t make it false.”

What ARE you talking about?

Your God King was reelected.
You’re saying that most of the world, conspired against Trump for years. What happened?

You sheep were all over the internet, talking about what you would do if “another election was stolen.”
You expected to lose Wulf.
You’re whole posse, was ready to call it rigged. But Trump won.

Did Harris or Biden bring lawsuits against all of the states they lost?
Was a recount demanded?
Do you expect the left, to try to violently take it?
Are you afraid that Harris might get hung, for signing off on Trump?

Right now, Trump is hard at work providing his detractors correct, and filling his cabinet with losers.
I love it.
The Republicans wouldn’t even pass Gaetz. Is THAT a deep state conspiracy Wulf?

I just wanted Hegseth out.
He may have to go too…

@seawulf575 “Where are your stats for just illegal immigrants?”

“The study found that undocumented immigrants are arrested at less than half the rate of native-born U.S. citizens for violent and drug crimes and a quarter the rate of native-born citizens for property crimes.”(source)

@seawulf575 “many of the countries in the Americas have not been “ruined” by America. ”

We have propped up dictators and flooded their nations with guns, while using the IMF to extract wealth from those countries.

@seawulf575 “99% of those coming here are not seeking asylum.”

How can you possibly know that if you’re not processing the asylum case?

“And appreciating the value of immigrants is done. Appreciating illegal immigrants is not. Immigration itself is not a bad thing if it is controlled with order and purpose”

Right, like making the Europeans walk down a staircase in Ellis island. Brown people on the other hand? There is no line for them to enter legally from Latin American countries. It’s a convenient way to be de facto racist while pretending to care about the process.

Re: Asylum seekers:

Cut and pasted from the NY Post, 2022:

Between July 2021 and July 2022, the department (DHS) processed 1.079 million migrants stopped at the southwest border for removal. Of that 1.079 million, it cleared just 41,206 to apply for asylum or other humanitarian protection in the US.

During that same period, however, DHS released approximately 853,000 migrants stopped at the southwest border into the United States. Although those migrants are commonly called “asylum-seekers,” these statistics show fewer than 5% are.

That’s not to say that others won’t seek asylum eventually. Most who appear in immigration court will file asylum applications, regardless of whether they fear persecution or torture, because that will allow them to seek work permits and remain here indefinitely.

But many won’t show up. According to the Department of Justice, between FY 2008 and late FY 2019 — when DHS vigorously used expedited removal — 83% of migrants stopped at the border who claimed a fear of harm were cleared to make asylum claims in court. Fewer than 17% of them received asylum. By contrast, more than 45% never applied for asylum, and 32.5% were ordered removed in absentia when they failed to appear in court.

Link: https://nypost.com/2022/08/16/most-illegal-immigrants-do-not-qualify-for-us-asylum/

MSN article, 75% of all midtown (NYC) arrests are migrants:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/staggering-75-percent-of-all-ny-arrests-in-midtown-are-migrants-police-sources-estimate/ar-AA1pV5Hv

@jca2 “MSN article, 75% of all midtown (NYC) arrests are migrants:”

That’s not what the article says. That figure is an estimate from one police officer they interviewed. It’s not an MSN article, it’s from the Daily Express and reposted by MSN.

“The [Daily Express’] editorial stances have often been seen as aligned to Euroscepticism and supportive of the UK Independence Party (UKIP), and other right-wing factions including the European Research Group (ERG) of the Conservative Party.” (source)

@jca2 I actually agree with laws not letting police call in ICE when someone is arrested or just walking down the street, but if they are convicted, then I’m all in favor of calling immigration to deal with them.

@gorillapaws Your stats are old and actually from the first Trump era. But I saw an interesting thing. One of the categories for crimes they were looking at was drugs. Where are the majority of the drugs in the US coming from? Oh yeah…illegal drugs entering into the US illegally. Oops.

And how can I say that so many aren’t seeking asylum? That’s simple. There aren’t that many people in the world that are being targeted for their beliefs in their home nation. If there were, the human rights people would be going crazy. And the article that @jca2 posted bears this out. You want to say my claim of 99% was wrong? Okay, it was put out there to be a point. 95% might be the better number.

As for your weird claim about “brown people” and “Europeans” it makes no sense and is woefully uninformed. You do realize that there were many, many people that were turned away during the time Ellis Island was so prevalent? Yeah. There were rules that were followed. Merely being “European” was not enough to gain entry. And you probably didn’t know Galveston TX was about as big as, if not bigger than, Ellis Island when it came to being an immigration center. Neither of these centers, as far as I can tell, limited those coming in based on race. And in the end, this was a cheap ploy to try avoiding the facts. There are still approved points of entry into the country. Places where LEGAL immigration can and is supposed to be done.

@seawulf575 Explain the process for someone from Mexico who doesn’t have any relatives living in the US and no special skills/degrees can apply to legally immigrate and work in the USA.

@gorillapaws Yes definately racism when hispanics and blacks voted red across the country. Smh.

@KNOWITALL Yes, when you make rules that it’s easy for white people to immigrate to a country and hard for brown skinned people to do the same thing, that’s racism. Textbook.

The people raging about illegal immigration are perfectly happy to have Melania Trump come to the US illegally, give birth to an “anchor baby,” and then be given the Einstein visa so she could stay. Give me a fucking break.

@KNOWITALL Payback for them is going to be a BITCH ! Really think Trump will target them, Illegal or legal.

They just fell his BS.

@gorillapaws it’s probably because she married a US citizen, not necessarily the baby.

@gorillapaws 13 million Asian Americans here legally would probably disagree. And thats just Asians, who are generally considered ‘brown’.
Im not a friend of Melanias but I’m sure anyone with money has an easier time, regardless of color.
We do not care where they are from or what color or what religion-come in legally or gtfo and come back thru legal means

@Tropical_Willie We are cleaning up the mess the Dems got us into. Nothing more.

@KNOWITALL

It will be hell – - – inflation, target arrests of legal citizens, construction costs going through the roof and crops rotting in the field. Trump says there are 20 million people to be deported that is about 6% of USA population and most work at minimum wage jobs.

That will Trump’s mess ! !

@Tropical_Willie Surprise, more fear-mongering by the Left.
Why in hell did so many people across demographics vote for him? Because the Dems did such a great job? That doesnt even make sense.
Obviously we are willing to risk another Trump term for some reason. Why do you think that is?

I didn’t flunk 4 semesters of Economics, I got “A“s in 2 semesters of undergraduate and 2 semesters of graduate school were also “A“s.

It is not “more fear-mongering by the Left.”

He won’t have staff at Mar-a-Lago ! https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-foreign-workers-mar-lago-1902982

@Tropical_Willie I guess we’ll see if you’re right in time.

@Tropical_Willie The article says the workers are here on temporary work visas, H2B which is Seasonal non-agricultural work.

This is America.
Barron Trump, can go back to Africa!!!
It’s an invasion!

@gorillapaws I think for some people there is some racism in not wanting thousands of people coming here from Latin America daily, but not all people complaining about the Southern border are racist. I think if thousands of white Europeans were flowing into the country daily many Americans would be just as concerned about the numbers, don’t kid yourself, we have seen it before in our history. It is the quantity at coming in at once more than the race or ethnicity. That’s my opinion anyway.

Keep in mind Catholics were on the KKK Black list, pun intended. That meant the Irish and Italians were the same as Black people in their view. Put Jewish people on that list too.

Considering Latin Americans are 19% of the population, I think we are very close to the point that they will stop being put into such a separate category in people’s minds and simply be considered American. Especially after this election. The only thing holding that back is probably that new immigrants from Latin America still come here in such large numbers.

Maybe the Democrats will stop calling everyone Brown. I think that might help. I think in the last 15 years it has been very purposeful to use that term to try to build a coalition, but it isn’t working as well as they might have thought. Many people who are called Brown don’t even identify with the term.

^Well. The pigmented, can vote against their interests just like any others.

@JLeslie I feel funny calling myself Hispanic, since my father is from Mexico and he’s definitely Hispanic. I’m whiter than white and people are usually surprised when I said my father is from Mexico, because they think of Mexicans as being short and dark, like the indigenous, but not all are like that. Many are of Spanish descent, from Spain, who are white and tall.

@jca2 True, but even more confusing is Latin America has people from Asia, and other parts of Europe outside of Spain. Hispanic by definition is someone from Spain now in the Americas, but it has been broadened. My half Chinese half white friend probably marks Hispanic, because her 100% Chinese mom was born and raised in Peru. The terms Latin American and Hispanic are used interchangeably, but technically they are really two different definitions.

My boyfriend in high school used to answer White on a lot of forms back when forms just said White, Black, Hispanic, Other. His family was from Ecuador. He was probably half indigenous by his features, but he would say, “I was born in the US, I’m American.” Another thing he would say is, “in Ecuador I’m white.”

Recently, I was in a real life conversation about how people self identify on the census and other forms, and a woman said someone she knows marks Hispanic, but the woman’s family was Jewish from some part of Europe, I don’t even remember where as I write this, but it wasn’t Spain, and they migrated to Cuba, and then the US. She felt marking Hispanic was dishonest. I wanted to ask her how long was the family in Cuba out of curiosity, but I didn’t get to. The implication was the person she knows should just be marking white.

I wonder if she thinks that about my FIL who basically 100% of his ancestry is from the Middle East, and Jewish, and my FIL was born in Mexico and lived there until his 50’s, and now lives in the US. I wonder if him being “brown” changes her perception of when it’s ok to check the Hispanic box. I’m not sure how she decided when it is legitimate to call oneself Hispanic.

I have a cousin by marriage, Jewish, and white like stereotypical white European. His Family went from England to Cuba and then to the US. I don’t know if he marked Hispanic on forms, but I would think so. I don’t know if he was born in Cuba or the US.

I also wonder if them being Jewish affects how she perceives them as Hispanic or not.

@gorillapaws Isn’t it amazing when you ask about legal immigration that there are actual answers available?

https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states

This is from the USCIS and explains in plain English what is done to come here to work. There are numerous ways it can be done. Everything from coming on a regular visa for visiting and then changing it to a work visa later to applying up front for a work visa are all spelled out here.

But just like your claims about asylum, you’ve never looked at the laws to make an educated statement about them. Instead you blast out your lack of knowledge, wearing it like a suit of armor and then expect me to educate you. But here we are. I’m willing to bet you don’t even bother to look at the link I just provided. You don’t care about legal immigration, you just want open borders like every other nation in the world doesn’t have.

@gorillapaws “The people raging about illegal immigration are perfectly happy to have Melania Trump come to the US illegally, give birth to an “anchor baby,” and then be given the Einstein visa so she could stay. Give me a fucking break.” As usual you don’t bother to actually look into your claims and rely heavily on bogus left wing smear sites. Here is a story from her former modeling agent that says she came here with a work visa and was working legally with this visa when she met Trump. AFTER she was married (which can also change her citizenship status) she got pregnant and had a baby. But hey, don’t let facts mess up your bubble.

^^Your article states exactly why we suspect Melania of working under the table while on a tourist visa, which is illegal in two ways. Illegal to work at all and then obviously working under the table is ilegal even for a citizen.

She initially was here on a tourist visa, and how was she paying for her life while in the US for months?

I know plenty of people who say they are here in the US legally on a visa who are working, but only have a tourist visa. She uses the same language they do. It is very suspicious.

@JLeslie When Melania was a model, the high priced models get given housing by the modeling agencies, because they’re not in one place for long, they’re doing shoots all over the world.

I’m not a defender of Trump or Melania, just giving what I think was probably the scenario for her before she got married. She was one of the models you’d see in Cosmopolitan or Vogue. Those models work for agencies that take care of their needs (and charge for it, by taking their cut off the top).

@seawulf575 “This is from the USCIS and explains in plain English what is done to come here to work. ”

Not what I asked. I’m not talking about legally being exploited for labor and then shipped back home seasonally. I’m say how can they legally immigrate here from Mexico if they don’t have relatives or special skills? There is no line to stand in. The lottery excludes them.

@JLeslie Read it again. Her manager said she had a work visa and that they had to pull a lot of her past work to show that she needed it.

“Zampolli said that while he was a partner at modeling agency Metropolitan Models, he secured a work visa for Mrs. Trump, who in the mid-1990s was named Melania Knauss.

“I know she was not working a paid job before she got the H-1B,” Zampolli said, referring to the type of work visa that U.S. companies can obtain for “fashion models of distinguished merit and ability.” H-1B visas generally allow a person to work and live in the U.S. for three years with the opportunity to renew the visas for another three years.

Zampolli said he based the H-1B application on Mrs. Trump’s previous modeling work in Paris and Milan. “We used whatever she did before to get her a visa,” he said. “She had enough tear sheets to qualify.””

@gorillapaws What you asked was “Explain the process for someone from Mexico who doesn’t have any relatives living in the US and no special skills/degrees can apply to legally immigrate and work in the USA.” I gave it to you. A work visa can be for 3 years.

Now you are merely whining. Using terms like “exploiting them for labor and then shipping back home” is disingenuous. The companies did not go to Mexico and kidnap the people to use them as slave labor. The people immigrate here to work. They aren’t getting exploited. It is the ILLEGAL aliens that get exploited. They aren’t covered by the law for pay so they can get screwed on pay rates with the threat of deportation. In other words, you want me to justify your warped view of reality. You’re on your own with that.

Coming into this country on a work visa would enable that person to come here and earn a wage for a time, establish ties with the business and the workers, meet people in the country, etc all of which could be used to change that work visa into a permanent immigration to the country. But many don’t want to immigrate here permanently. They want to come and earn a wage that is often sent back to their families in whatever country they come from. It enables their family to live a better life.

In cities like NYC, the migrants live for free in hotels (google Roosevelt Hotel for example) that have been made into shelters (right in midtown, prime real estate), get free food, Medicaid and they can work off the books delivering food for local restaurants, so their wages are all profit.

@seawulf575 “I gave it to you”

You didn’t. At the end of that term they will not be US citizens or on the path to US citizenship. They are obligated to contribute payroll taxes to social security and medicare, but cannot receive benefits from those programs. It is exploitative and disingenuous to claim that such workers are “legal immigrants.”

@jca2 I guess she maybe was able to do work in the US if she was being paid by a company based outside of the US, like if my husband flew to Argentina for work on a business trip. A US company she would need a work visa. So, unless they were paying for her when she was here on tourist visa, that was on her dime. It’s possible she did everything by the book. What initially raised my eyebrows was years ago when she was pushing back against reports that she worked illegally she said she always left the country and came back when she had to. That is not a work visa. Maybe what I saw was edited though.

I’ve never seen a real analysis of her work and when she had which type of visa.

It doesn’t really matter to me, except to say if she worked illegally it demonstrates again we need to change our immigration laws. People want to blame race and I’m not saying that.

I know people accuse her parents having citizenship sped up, and I’ve never looked into that either. She sponsored them, which of course is legal for a green card, but I don’t know if their citizenship was pushed through faster than the law permits.

@Jleslie my guess, as far as Melania and other models who worked for agencies go, is that the agencies have staff that handles all that paperwork, as it’s probably confusing and voluminous.

As far as her parents go, who knows.

A friend wanted me to sponsor someone about 10 years ago and I looked at the requirements and said no thank you. I would have had to sign something saying that I would be willing and able to support her if she could not support herself and I would have to pay to transport her back to her home country (the Republic of Georgia) if she couldn’t afford to. Hell no. For Trump, that type of thing would be no problem.

My husband sponsored his parents, he had to sign all of those papers.

I don’t even remember if I had to sign also being his wife, but I remember reading over the paperwork.

@Jleslie yeah hell no. If it were a relative, I’d do it but not for a friend. It was too big of a risk.

@jca2 I was nervous about us signing it, but I remember my husband saying, “it’s my parents.” I quickly replied, “yes of course, I didn’t mean don’t sign.” My caution reading over the documents must have come across as though I didn’t think he should sign.

I wouldn’t sign that paperwork for someone I barely knew. Even a friend I did know I would be very hesitant.

@gorillapaws The fact you don’t want to read the links I give or follow the links inside the links or actually do the research yourself, doesn’t change the facts that information is there. You can become a permanent immigrant through employment meaning you can stay here as long as you like. You can then pursue all the other requirements for citizenship if you like. It isn’t magic. And it is all laid out on the webpage I gave you. As I predicted, you didn’t want to read it, but wanted to cling to your ignorance.

@seawulf575 “You can become a permanent immigrant through employment meaning you can stay here as long as you like.”

Not for unskilled labor from Mexico and most other Latin American countries. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

People have trouble getting work visas. My husband almost had to leave the country when his first job out of college said they would do the paperwork for his visa, and then 2 months before his visa would expire that was an automatic time period he was allowed to work following graduating school, his company said they changed policy they longer do work visas for employees. He had to quit and look for an employer to say his skills were necessary or he would have been overstaying his visa, which he would never do, or leave the country. He got a job three weeks before his visa would expire. It was incredible luck.

When I was working for Nortel and they were laying of thousands of employees, I think the final number was something like 35,000 over the course of 6 months. My husband was not let go, but every one of our close friends were, except for the two who took early retirement. I was working as a temp we were all let go. One of the employees under my boss was Asian, I cannot remember which country, and he was practically begging not to be let go because he would lose his visa and have to return to his country. He was caught in the lay-offs and wanted her to find another spot for him. My boss said there was nothing she could do.

There’s also a Green Card lottery that gives out about 55,000 green cards every year. One might say that 55,000 green cards is not a lot, but it’s over a thousand per state if you want to look at it that way.

I looked at @seawulf575s link for paths to staying in the US, and if you click on the various links inside it, it gives all kinds of ways for someone to stay here permanently. There are also many many people who live in the US permanently who are living “off the books,” working off the books, renting apartments, etc.

Melania had TEN modeling jobs while on Tourist Visa !
https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-travel-immigration-migration-election-2020-37dc7aef0ce44077930b7436be7bfd0d

For her 11th; she had a Work Visa. Alo she was using just her first name. . . .

See that is the type of lie I was talking about that a lot of immigrants use. I was legal in the country, but they leave off they were working illegally. The difference between her and the people pouring across the border is they do not have any visa.

@jca2 “There’s also a Green Card lottery that gives out about 55,000 green cards every year.”

They exclude pretty much all Latin American countries from the eligible pool. There is no legal path to citizenship for an unskilled Mexican or Ecuadorian, or Panamanian, etc. person in the current system unless they’re rich, or related to someone who is a citizen.

For people who don’t understand what structural racism is, THIS IS IT. Saying “I only want people to come here legally,” but voting for people who are ensuring that it’s nearly impossible for people of a certain race to come here legally, IS RACIST. It would be like voting in people who want black people to only ride in the back of the bus, but then saying “I love black people, but I want everyone to follow the rules, that’s not racist. I’m not racist.”

@gorillapaws if you think the US policies toward Hispanics are racist, you need to let your political representatives know and you need to support advocacy groups that push policies that allow more Hispanics to obtain citizenship.

@gorillapaws “Not for unskilled labor from Mexico and most other Latin American countries.” Again, you are spewing ignorance. Show me in the law where is specifies what jobs you have to have to get a work visa. Show me where it excludes certain countries because of their heritage. Your own racism is ridiculous.

@gorillapaws Let’s agree that being legal in a country is not only citizenship, there are work visas and green cards, and a few other ways. I think it is very important to have paths to citizenship for people who live in the country full time, so you and I probably have no argument there. Maybe minor disagreements on when and how.

There are hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans who come into the US legally every year, they are not banned as group. There are hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans who become citizens every year.

I think you are talking about the diversity visa; the lottery you mentioned. If you think it is racist or unfair to have a lottery program that tries to help groups that are underrepresented in the US then maybe we should do away with that lottery, or do away with any program that resembles a quota system.

@seawulf575 “Show me in the law where is specifies what jobs you have to have to get a work visa.”

H-1B Visas are for skilled labor.

What visa would an unskilled immigrant from Mexico come to the US legally under to eventually become a US citizen? I can’t point to something that doesn’t exist. There is no such visa.

@JLeslie “There are hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans who come into the US legally every year,”

They are either relatives of US citizens, have lots of money, or specialized skills that qualify for an H-1B.

@gorillapaws I’m addressing your accusation of “racist policy.” If you are including socio-economically disadvantaged as part of race, then when I look around the world the US seems to accept the poor more than many other countries, except maybe if we include war refugees, but I don’t know the statistics.

Canada is pretty specific about immigrants coming in with money. There are plenty of countries that people can buy their way in for residency or even citizenship. The outside world accuses the US of being racist and anti-immigrant, but I think statistics show a different story, and in most of the US immigrants assimilate and become part of the fabric of our nation.

I think I stated above I want the US to still be a place for the poor to be able to come and pursue their dreams. I am a believer in welcoming the tired, the poor, and huddled masses yearning to be free. It just has to be within reason so that not only the people here already can absorb the influx, but also so the new immigrants have opportunity and safety too. I’m not saying Americans shouldn’t be willing to sacrifice to help mew immigrants, I think we should, and especially for war refugees and legit asylum seekers.