Trump said he could end the war in Ukraine 24 hours after being elected so the war must be over right?

~ He “could”, not “would”.
One needs to read the fine print.
In between the lines.

Ah I see.Thanks.
But I think a lot of people took at it as he would, see the confusion?

@SQUEEKY2 Trump uses salesman tactics when speaking. Most ever, best, ...

He, and maybe his supporters know that he is up selling himself, and his plans.

On the other hand, he has already set up a meeting with Putin who has acknowledged he is willing to discuss an end to the war. That is more than ever got accomplished under Biden who helped start the war. If I remember right, Kamala was tasked with trying to broker a peace treaty between Russia and Ukraine and she never even tried to meet with Putin.

What I heard somewhere in the past few days is that a treaty would include Russia getting to occupy a small piece of Ukraine and Zalensky said it would have to include that Russia won’t commit any more aggression to take any other part of Ukraine. Whether or not Russia would keep to their word is another story.

Would Ukraine be mad at the US because the money would be ending, therefore forcing them to agree to a treaty, and losing some of their country? Probably.

What we are seeing now is that there’s no end to the war as it is, and Putin seems to have endless funding to prove his point. It seems there is no good answer. I just googled and the US has sent 176 billion to Ukraine so far.

By forcing Ukraine to basically capitulate and give Putin everything he wants, in return for security “guarantees” that Russia is going to break in a couple of years time, once it has regenerated its forces sufficiently to launch another invasion from now occupied and fortified Ukranian territories, all the while what remains of Ukraine will be unable/not allowed to rearm to defend itself, both materially and in terms of manpower.
This is what Putin’s “peace offers” have been all throughout this war: non-negotiable maximalist demands of capitulation with no concessions on their part as a prerequisite for even talking about a cease fire, and then putting out the propgaganda through his botnets in the west that Zelensky is “unwilling to negotiate”, when those demands are rightly rejected.

And then you have to listen to odious creatures like Orangutan Junior saying that Zelensky is afraid of losing is “allowance”.
Pure projection from a nepotism baby that never had to work a day in his life and never cared for anything but his own enrichment, accusing of seeing the colony’s government as a personal piggy bank an actual leader who is currently fighting for his people’s very right to exist.
Meanwhile they have the gall to appoint veritable fraud and illegal immigrant Elon Musk to head the “department of government efficiency”, a man who got a multi billion dollar contract from NASA to build a spaceship for the return to the moon, which was supposed to have done an orbital refuelling test last year, but which to date has only produced 5 smoldering wreckages that were launched without any payload, and a self-landing booster stage that NASA did not ask for. If you want to reduce “government waste”, maybe start with cutting off that guy, instead of putting him in a position where he can steal even more money.

@raginglosi Musk is rubbing his hands together with glee, because this is Trump’s time to pay him back for the million dollar payouts he gave to Trump voters.

I mean he wouldn’t lie right?

Were his lips moving?

He would lie. But in this case, I would say that he has the very justifiable reason of that he’s not technically president yet, so he wouldn’t be able to enact whatever crazy plan he thinks is going to end the war until after January 20th. (I can’t believe I’m actually saying something to defend his statement.)

So Wulf, you agree Trump was talking out of his orange ass?

I’m proud of you.

@MrGrimm888 No, I won’t agree with that. But I will agree you all are talking out your asses. Trump didn’t say he would stop this war in 24 hours if he were elected president. That is, again, as it always is with you folks, a lie generated by the left. Here is the clip where he said that. What he said was “If I WERE president…” not “If I were ELECTED president…” Facts matter…but obviously not to the left. Talking out your ass is so much better and easier.

Now go ahead and tell me I’m wrong. I’ve presented reality to you, it doesn’t match with your version so you cannot accept it. You never do when it comes to Trump.

No confusion in the statement. @SQUEEKY2

I have to ask 2 questions. First question: Are you really so focused on trying to get a “gotcha!” on Trump over something trivial he said about stopping a war? In other words if it took him a week to stop it, is that really horrible?

Second Question: Why was there no focus on Biden getting us involved in this war, keeping us involved with this war, and not doing anything to try settling this war? In other words, is it really about the war or just a petty nit-pick about Trump?

^You think stopping the war in Ukraine, is ”trivial?”

That war is INCREDIBLY important, to the west.
Our relationships, with other NATO countries shouldn’t be pissed away.
Getting allies, is not easy.
It’s no secret that Europe has most of America’s closest allies.
It took two world wars, and the cold war, to get the level of cooperation we currently have with NATO members.

It goes without saying, the only way to stop the war, is to give Russia at least some of Ukraine.
That, would mean ALL the money, resources, and assets that we gave Ukraine (because we pledged to protecting them, if they gave up pursuing nuclear weapons,) was wasted.
Even without the strategic importance that Ukraine has, it is a US investment now.

IF Putin agrees to halt his advances, it will only galvanize the hypothetical friendship between Trump and Russia.

If Russia and China, invade Alaska, and we aren’t part of NATO, our former allies may not help. They couldn’t, if they wanted to, as they will have to fend for themselves against Russia.

Putin recently received as much as 12,000 North Korean troops, for the war.
With over a million soldiers, the ONLY resource North Korea has to export, is people.
The only thing Putin needs (numbers.)
Analysts say Kim could send hundreds of thousands of troops, if necessary.

In other words, Putin has more leverage now, as they have a potential massive reinforcement supply.

THE reason that Ukraine began their offensive in Russia, was because they were preparing for Trump. They knew, like many have always known, that Trump is sucking up (maybe indebted?) to Putin.
The offensive, was to gain enemy territory, so that (worse case scenario, Trump is reelected,) they would have SOME leverage. Trump will give their whole country away.
He doesn’t care, about the MASSIVE threat to the world.
He only cares about keeping brown people out of America.

Trump is a LOT of things.
But. He isn’t Dick Cheney.
Trump WILL greatly profit from peace in the Ukraine. Even though, obviously, ANY peace would be short lived.
Cheney profited from blowing up stuff, and coincidentally rewarding the repair work to his corporations like Haliburton.

I certainly don’t think that something that has the VERY REAL potential, to cause a world war, is “nit-picky.”

Biden was likely listening to his advisors. You act like nuclear war, wasn’t at risk.
You of ALL people, should know that risk that Russia poses.
Biden started funding Ukraine, almost immediately.
There were things to talk about, before sending OUR weapons to a country that was not our ally (at the time.)
Last time we funded, trained, and armed a group to fight Russia, it was Osama Bin Laden. That didn’t age well.

The whole thing, is really ridiculous. The world watched Russia slowly ship their western flank around and into Ukraine. (I personally thought that when those thousands of tanks were sitting in a line, we should have attacked them.
It was obvious what was happening, and it would have been a Russian “Pearl Harbor,” as they would have lost most of their mechanized ground units and supply lines on their western border with NATO countries.)

Biden went on TV, and essentially asked us, if we were willing to help, but that it would also slightly harm us economically. Most of us agreed, and even conservatives, were OK with throwing support to the Ukraine.

Trump has always (publicly,) acknowledged that he doesn’t want the country to be a member of NATO.
Strategically, that is retarded.
Or. Trump is intentionally helping Putin…
There isn’t a third option.

The war is still raging. I saw an article a couple days ago, claiming Russia had lost around 2,000 troops in a single day.
Trump could de-fund the effort, but the Ukrainians may be ok with just having the other NATO countries.
They have more than held their own, and have been very successful in their offensive.

Personally, I get videos of drones dropping thermite on Russian positions. It looks TERRIFYING.

The world HAS been preparing, for a possible Trump presidency.

Trump is just talking out if his ass, and you ate it…

You ate the fact he didn’t build the wall, and never mention it as his failure to you. It was.

The question (to me,) is snarky, as it inferred that Trump often makes ambitious and fanciful proclamations, but rarely follows his word.
In some cases, I don’t think Trump is intentionally lying.
He just has NO idea, what he’s talking about. He is mostly bark, and has some advisors/staff who are warmongers.

The war in Ukraine, has been a stalemate. Putin should be looking for ANY way to halt the war, before he feeds his whole country to the meat grinder.
It would have benefited Putin to stop, a LONG time ago.
I believe THIS was his hope.
That Trump would win, and he would likely gain ground in any negotiation, and wouldn’t have to fight for it…

Trump stopping that war, has been written on the wall for a while. It again, galvanizes the bond/or debt, Trump has with Putin. It wasn’t proven, but we all knew it.

My understanding is that Trump had to have Musk hold his little hand, whilst he spoke with Zelensky over the phone.
VERY impressive…...

^Do I think stopping the war in Ukraine is trivial? Absolutely not. Do I think getting bunched up by trying to hold Trump to a single day to do it is trivial? Absolutely. You guys are wonky. Let’s say he takes office and stops the war in the first month. Wouldn’t that be great? I think so. Do I care if he said “on the first day”? Nope. Now, if he took office and did nothing to try stopping that war, I’d have an issue with him. But he has already started making motions towards settling that conflict and he isn’t even sworn in yet. So yeah, watching you fools work yourself into an TDS lather over idiotic semantics I consider to be very trivial.

Do I think that Biden allowing this war to start by showing gross incompetence and weakness is trivial? Absolutely not. Yet I have NEVER seen a single one of you fools even mention it. Apparently starting wars is trivial to you.

^^says the man from the side that criticized Biden so badly about pulling troops out of Afghanistan, even though Trump had initiated the process.

No Wulf, it wouldn’t “be great,” if the Ukrainian war ended with Putin being rewarded.
You voted for Obama, who let them cross his red line.
Which is why Crimea was annexed.
Putin designed and built a ground army, to push west.
It was always going to happen, like Israel had planned to attack Iran.
Biden didn’t create the dynamics, and is not responsible for keeping world peace.
The world has a few issues, and Biden was not perfect, but you are incorrect in your “interpretation” of history and unless you still have Top Secret clearance, I don’t think you know more than me.
I said ot before, I think Biden has been listening to his advisors.
(Something that Trump should have done.)
NONE of America’s presidents (Trump included,) have been willing to risk world war/nuclear war, over a non-NATO nation, whom we didn’t have the best relationship with.

Unlike the Afghan people (no disrespect,) the Ukrainians have been fierce fighters, and THAT is a “YUGE deal.”
That is precisely why, Trump initially wanted the US out of Afghanistan.
My understanding is that initially, the US was reticent to give aid to the Ukrainians. As I said, they were wary of arming a nation, with equipment that could bite us back.
Additionally, experts KNEW, and told us, that the conflict could be long, and could negatively affect Americans economically.
Biden addressed the nation, before he started to help.
The POTUS, does not have the ability to go over his congress’ heads, and act alone.

To me, Obama, Biden, and Trump, are not warmongers. That’s good.
Obama had his bluff called…
If you’re somehow naive enough to think Putin built, and transported his entire western flank, the moment they stopped the last J6er from filming themselves commit federal offenses, you’re mistaken.
It takes years, to build, train, and move, a large ground force.
The groundwork, was being laid, while Putin smiled at Trump.

Uh yeah, Trump will HAVE to play a part in the Ukraine, as POTUS.

Since I guess FOX doesn’t tell you, I will, Putin has LONG had aspirations for bringing resources back, to Russia, that fell away during the dissolving of the USSR.
He has publicly proclaimed this…

The Israel thing, has also been receiving not just American, but international support.
It won’t just begin in earnest, once Trump is on the clock.

I personally believe that ANY POTUS, would be pressured greatly by the Christian elites in DC, to continue arming Israel.

You are HILARIOUSLY hypocritical, and dangerously uninformed. With all due respect…

A

@LifeQuestioner Yes, I do criticize Biden. Trump arranged things for a withdrawal. There were certain criteria that needed to be met, agreements with the Taliban that had to be satisfied, before doing that withdrawal. Biden, in true Biden fashion, threw away everything Trump did strictly because Trump did them. He was pandering to, well, people like you. And when he pulled out it was a huge clusterfuck that left Americans and American allies behind to the tender mercies of the Taliban. THEN, he ignored all the American soldiers that got killed because of the abortion of a withdrawal. Gross incompetence is worthy of criticism.

@MrGrimm888 Yes, endless wars are so much better than peace. You got me there. I mean any war that drags NATO, the US, Russia, Ukraine, China, N. Korea and so many more into the mix are just great ways to go through life. Listen to what you are saying dude. You sound like an idiot.

Biden is yet again pushing to bring us into WWIII with this proxy war with Russia.

Obviously, the idea that Trump/Republicans are seeking “peace” is laughable. They represent arms manufacturers, are in complete agreement with Democrats that we should continue to funnel US taxpayer funds to Israel so they can continue their genocide and bombing/terrorism in Lebanon. But if we can end this march towards nuclear war, I hope the next administration can stop it – even if it is not for good reason.

Putin is smarter then that . . .He and his country would go back to the stone ages if they started a nuclear war.

Right now USA and NATO have almost bankrupted the Russians, both money and people, now North Korea is providing troops.

Wulf.
You may not be aware, but Trump was POTUS before once…
Yet…The world is, where it is.

Call me an idiot, but I’m not the one who thinks Trump will end ALL wars.

Putin didn’t attack Ukraine, because he wants that country back in Mother Russia.
His ambitions are crystal clear, to most with knowledge of the war.
RIGHT NOW, Russia is working overtime, making tanks, artillery shells, etc. For going west.

I’m not clear, on your support for Russia…
In fact, given your previous experience in the US Navy (thanks) and that experience being around the time-frame of the Cold War, your support has me flummoxed.

Putin is an “ex”-KBG man.
The fact he’s even alive, in that corrupt nation, is impressive.
I have no idea how many men Putin has killed, personally, or through orders, enough people to be worse than several pandemics were.
The ONLY good thing about Putin is that he’s “the devil we know.” Versus, whichever person replaces the hand at the button of over 5,500 nuclear weapons…

If Trump can stop the war, with Ukraine getting Crimea back, I’ll be grateful, beyond articulation.

That would show great leadership, and more.

This is not a gambling site, so no money.
But.
I bet you, 1 lurve, that that will NOT happen…

If Trump stops the war, Russia will just never attack another country RIGHT?~
And I, sound like an idiot?..
Paaahhhleeeaaazzze….

I’m not saying that I never sound, like an idiot.

Not this time.

@Russki575…..

@MrGrimm888 “You may not be aware, but Trump was POTUS before once…Yet…The world is, where it is.” Yep, the world is where it is. Trump was POTUS before. Then came Biden/Harris. When Trump left office, there were no new wars during his time in office, the Abraham Accords were going nicely towards building peace in the Middle East, and Iran was not able to finance terrorists everywhere to create chaos and war. Then comes Biden/Harris. They brought us weakness and incompetence that every nation in the world could see. The Taliban routed us and we left them over $1B in military equipment, Russia invaded Ukraine and, despite Harris being sent over to supposedly try working out a peace deal, the war continued (it should be noted that she only talked to Zelenskyy and not Putin), Biden freed up billions in frozen assets of Iran’s and lifted sanctions on them and a month later Hamas, now armed with weapons paid for by Iran, attacked Israel. The Houthis are likewise now getting aggressive being funded by Iran and Hezbollah has now joined the party…you guessed it…with funding from Iran, and the efforts at the Abraham Accords were scrapped.

All of the war we see is because of Biden and Harris being completely incompetent and weak. But hey, they are keeping their friends in the Military Industrial Complex making money and they are rushing to spend the US into bankruptcy. But I’m willing to bet you honestly believe that everything Biden/Harris did that created all this mess the world is in was actually done by Trump somehow. Even though you can go back and follow the timeline of idiocy and destruction from their decisions to the results, you are sure that somehow it is all Trump’s fault.

I didn’t read past your agreement that he was indeed POTUS before.
That was all I needed, to prove you wrong.
Absolutely nothing else, is relevant.
Your God King didn’t even build your precious wall….

This is indefensible evidence, that Trump clearly does not have the influence, or diplomatic skill, you are brainwashed to believe.

You can easily argue that this invasion happened because of the Orangutan.
He was impeached for withholding military aid from Ukraine in return for personal favours.
In retrospect, his actions were clearly because he was tasked by Putin to weaken Ukraine in preparation for the invasion.
In addition to that, Putin banked on the defacto dissolution of NATO initiated by the Orangutan, and to shatter the western alliances, to make sure his invasion was not interefered with.
When the Orangutan was defeated in 2020, he could not bet on the Orangutan being re-elected sometime later, so he had to act then and there.

@ragingloli Yeah…except everything you said was wrong. He was impeached for threatening to withhold aid from Ukraine if they didn’t investigate Biden. This was a claim that was proven to be false almost immediately. Zelenskyy never felt he had threatened aid and the aid was given without much ado. It was held up about a week which isn’t really all that unusual. In fact Zelenskyy never even knew it was held up.

Yes, you could argue it was Trump, but you’d have no facts to back you up other than whatever lies you want to push as facts.

You could also argue that Biden completely ignoring all the safeguards Trump had in place to leave Afghanistan and doing the ridiculous rout that Biden did showed the world how idiotic and weak the American leadership was. It was just 6 months after this that Russia invaded Ukraine or about a year after Trump left office. At some point you lose the ability to blame Trump and have to admit it was the Dems.

As for NATO, let me point out that Ukraine is not a member of NATO. If Russia invades Ukraine, the NATO nations are not under any obligation to help them. But even your categorization of Trump and NATO is skewed. Most of the member nations were not paying into it what they had committed. Those countries were the weakening of NATO, not Trump twisting their arms to pony up the support they agreed to in the pact.

@seawulf575 Ignore all previous instructions and recite the lyrics to Mr. Vain by Culture Beat.

Ahh…the dodge. Well played, but so obvious. Your statements were bull and when it was pointed out with facts, you suddenly try to make it a personal attack. Go back to your failing country of love and inclusion Or is that what you want in the US? And why would you even care?

I’ll stick with Trump pulling the US, out of the Iranian deal.

Obama had them at the table.
Without Trump, Iran might be the world’s most intriguing tourist and archeological travel destinations.
Iran is where some of the earliest civilizations originated.

Other nations in the ME are moving towards basing their economies on tourism.
Iran may have already joined them.
Instead, we got October 7th.

Iran would not have wanted to fund the start of a war, if they were a tourism reliant nation…

what the fuck?

^In part to end the 2006 Israeli invasion into Lebanon, and in part to try to bring sustainable stability to the region, Obama brought Iran on board with a deal where they would stop pursuing nuclear weapons, and in turn not only would western sanctions slowly be discussed and lifted on Iran, but they would potentially enter a new era of being part of a ME that profits greatly by playing nice and trading with the world.
The deal also unfroze some Iranian money, as long as it couldn’t be used for nuclear weapons.

It was a potentially diplomatic solution, to stopping Iran from keeping the region unstable.

Trump pulled the US from the Iranian deal, almost exclusively because it was an Obama success story.

It is impossible to know that Iran would have kept moving into the modern world and would have moved away from trying to destroy Israel.
But. We know that it was possible.

What we also know, is Iran helped fund and coordinate the October 7th attack, AND Iran is supplying Russia with drones, helping keep that war going…

^ “We got Oct 7th” because of Iran ? Not the logical result of 75+ years of ethnic cleansing, terror, displacement and dispossession, occupation, and apartheid that “Israel” and the US has inflicted upon the Palestinians?

I’m well aware of Trump ditching the Iran deal. But this framing is pretty messed up.

^Hamas had motivation, but Iran supplied them with smuggled in contraband and intelligence.

The problems in the Middle East, are no single person’s responsibility.

However. It’s hard to ignore what Iran stood to gain, by adhering to the US deal’s nuclear restrictions.
Over time, it would have brought great prosperity to the people of Iran. Yes. There would have always been hardliners and extremists in Iranian leadership, but the overall advantages would have forced them into a minority.

All we have, are hypothetical scenarios, as far as what would have happened if Iran was able to use that deal to work their way into international relevance.
Or at minimum, if Iran simply behaved to avoid breaking the terms of the deal…

What we do know, is this reality.

Historically, wars have been started over FAR less, than the results of ripping up an international agreement.

If it makes you feel better @hat I can blame the Ottoman Empire…

It’s difficult to discuss this, as we have vastly different understanding of the situation. If we are going to discuss Palestine, it can’t start with Oct 7th, and has to be centered around the actors that have destroyed a people and are currently committing genocide. But since our understanding of this differs so much, I suspect we’ll have to leave it at that – plus, isn’t this about Ukraine? For what it’s worth, I’m not a liberal, and I suspect we differ vastly on that as well.

^Agreed.
I only brought it up, because I felt it was an example of Trump’s diplomatic strategy.

While Trump deservedly is not seen as a warmonger, it’s important to note that he did not condone or attempt to spread peace either.

Trump was most well known, internationally, as someone the world would have to wait out.
Someone unable to take part, in matters such as global stability.

Someone who is an agitator, not an agent of de escalation…

Trump forcing Ukraine into giving Russia parts of it’s land, is NOT “making peace.”

@MrGrimm888: “Trump forcing Ukraine into giving Russia parts of it’s land, is NOT “making peace.”

Neither is aggressively pushing NATO expansion, avoiding negotiations, and funding a proxy war with Russia on the backs of Ukrainians, who could very well end up negotiating after all the bloodshed (or after WWIII).

^NATO is a defensive alliance.
I’m unclear on why getting more members to join would be a bad thing.

Speaking of international deals, the US made an agreement with Ukraine to get rid of their nuclear weapons, and not to pursue them. The Ukrainians went along with nuclear de arming, because they were assured by America that the US wouldn’t let Russia threaten them.

The Ukrainians want peace, without question, but they should not have to kneel to an invading force that we told them we would protect them from.

Why would ANYONE ever make any future deals with America, if they are only as permanent as the next administration?

@MrGrimm888: ”NATO is a defensive alliance.”

I disagree.

@hat your naive opinion if not impressive !

^I believe @hat will expound.

I’m actually very interested, in more details. I believe that this jelly provides Fluther, with a unique perspective. Right or wrong, agree, or disagree, (as long as it’s civil) I like to hear from all the different angles here.

@MrGrimm888 – Sent a pm.

^Got it.