What part of Project 2025 are you most excited about?

The fact that I am NOT a US citizen?
The Rep/cons have simply lost their minds.
I still can’t get over how many women voted for the orange turd, wouldn’t be surprised to find out years down the road Musk manipulated with his tech the vote ,and the Dems had actually won.

Laughing at you fools, for the time being.

- The nationwide reversal of the FDA’s approval of mifepristone.

- Violating the First Amendment by using federal law enforcement, along with the National Guard, to target journalists and protestors.

- Rolling back trans and LBGTQ+ rights (goodbye, same-gender marriage), removing legal protections against discrimination, and terminating diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) programs while having the Dept. of Justice prosecutre “anti-white racism” instead.

- Placing independent agencies, such as the Dept. of Justice, under direct presidential control, a concept known as “unitary executive theory.”

- Slashing regulations (who cares if Boeing jets fall from the sky?).

- Unifying the government and society with conservative Christian values, also called “moral law.”

The travesty is nearly 1,000 pages in length. I could continue all day, but I’ll stop now.

@ragingloli: “Laughing at you fools, for the time being.”

Why?

Because the fascists are gaining power here, too. So it is only a matter of time before the same fate shall befall Europe.

^ It’s nearly everywhere, and an expected result of capitalism. It’s a global problem that needs a global movement and solidarity. Personally, I identify far less with the US as a country than I do poor, working, exploited, and oppressed people from all countries.

Nation-wide abortion ban !

https://reproductiverights.org/project-2025-abortion-access/

The thought of being rounded up at gunpoint and imprisoned indefinitely because of something I posted on Fluther back in 2012.

^At least you’ll have company!!!!

A solution to the boarder crisis, deporting those who have entered the USA illegally, improving the stagnant economy, lowering inflation and stopping rampant crime.

What is the “boarder” crisis?

@Caravanfan Perhaps he’s having troubles with his landlord? ;-p

Oops, border crisis.

Well. There IS a broader issue…

@gondwanalon don’t worry about inflation,you will see it really rise once the Don Father implements his tarrifs.

Even though we are moving in a bad direction, I don’t think any here really knows what fascism is or what it is like to live under true fascism. We elected a populist because the poor, struggling working class were being ignored. Don’t get that confused with fascism.

“Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, egalitarianism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is at the far right of the traditional left–right spectrum.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#See_also

That’s pretty much what I thought it was.

@smudges Trump is a right-wing populist. Not a fascist. This election was about throwing out the liberal “elite” whatever that means exactly. That is not to say this could not become fascism. The working class have been completely ignored. Marginalized people react in this way. Who is being marginalized is up for debate but clearly, this popular vote showed it was the religious, poor, white and male. That’s an enormous percentage of the population and they voted to end the status quo. This is populism. I have my doubts that these people represent what they say but, don’t confuse it with fascism.

Oh. Dismantling our education system for sure!

Considering it looks like none of you have ever actually read the actual plan, No actual links from the plan itself are provided, and false statements are flying, asking for any form of rational discussion on it is foolishness designed only to make a point. This does not meet Fluther standards.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA You said Project 2025 didn’t exist . . .

. . . you are off topic, since you didn’t answer the question . . . !

Grab you ankles @seawulf575 Trump will ZERO your VA benefits, to save money for the ultra rich so they can pay less taxes, Ask Musk what his marching orders are , , , !

Scroll down on this link for information of what is true and false about Project 2025. https://www.project2025.org/truth/

I’m very upset about tax money going to religious schools, but that has been happening anyway. The Religious Right has been pushing for that for years.

All this talk about states getting more control over education is a bullshit sales pitch, they still want federal control regarding what is taught. It says some of the things they will forbid, but most of it is a non-issue anyway, it isn’t taught in the majority if schools. Side note: only an average of 9% of school finding is from the fed now, the majority is through the state.

According to the link there is nothing about contraception in project 2025, not sure if that is accurate, I haven’t read the entire book.

Looks like abortion will become illegal in all states if they get their way. Women will die.

@Tropical_Willie True to form, you are lying again. I never said Project 2025 didn’t exist. I said you fools on the left were the ones that find things like this and QAnon and start making them mainstream. I had to look up P25 when one of you first brought it up. And I actually read it. And at that time, just like now, you were all running around with your hair on fire spewing left wing talking points that are just plain wrong.

What I HAVE said is that P25 was not written by Donald Trump. It is not his plan, never was. I have said some of his views and the views expressed in P25 were the same as they would be since both are conservative in nature. The OP is a fearmongering idiot for acting like P25 is now the law of the land. And people like you are marching in step with his misinformation.

@JLeslie Thank you. You are the first jelly to actually attempt to link to Project 2025. Of course there were 21 responses before this one you just made, not to mention the original question, that never once linked to the project. When a question is about a topic, there really ought to be a link to that topic directly, not to some lefty wingnut website’s interpretation of that topic. If you want people to have a sane, rational discussion you make sure everyone is actually looking at the source material.

But the link you gave isn’t really the plan from Project 2025. It isn’t all the specifics that all the lefties are losing their minds about. I’ve discovered that if you don’t get exactly to the truth, and be very specific on how to find things on a webpage, the radical left (which many of these jellies are) don’t bother looking for truth. What you should have linked is something like:

https://www.project2025.org/policy/

If you scroll down, each and every page of the book is linked in by topic. It is just sad that I always have to be the one to link in the truth on things like this. It just speaks volumes about people that ask questions like this one.

@seawulf575 Thanks for your link; same website different page, but it’s good to have a direct link that makes it easy to find the full text.

I stick with my original answer.

@Blackwater_Park I don’t understand your whole point, then. You said you don’t think anyone here knows what fascism is. I gave you a definition and said that yes, I know what it is. Trump is most definitely a populist, and in its most radical, authoritarian form, populism poses a threat to democracy.

@smudges Let’s consider the link you provided. Here is what it said the characterizations are for Fascism:

“characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.”

Dictorial leader: None exists. That usually shows up as the capper on the cake. Can’t apply to Trump or any other politician at this time.

Centralized Autocracy: Trump has been pushing to shrink the size of the federal government and moving more and more to the states for control That is the exact opposite of Centralized Autocracy. On the flip side, the Democrats have pushed for larger federal government with all power residing in it. They have pushed to move more and more from the states to centralize it in one place. Dems are far closer to Fascism on this point.

Forcible Suppression of Opposition: Trump has not done this at all. However, under Joe Biden and Kamala Harris there was censorship of conservatives (opposing views), there were radical usage of law enforcement to raid home of and arrest people who dared to have a different opinion. See Mark Houck as the perfect example. Praying outside an abortion clinic and protecting his son from some radical that was attacking them got Mr. Houck arrested as the FBI and state police descended on his home, dragging him out of the house at gun point in front of his wife and 6 kids, even after he had offered to come in on his own (the day before they showed up). See also the efforts by the Biden DOJ to brand as domestic terrorists any parents that dared to speak up at school board meetings. These are perfect examples of forcible suppression of opposition. Dems have another step closer to Fascism.

Belief in a natural social hierarchy. Trump doesn’t see this or act on this at all. He has shown himself to be more about the people, engaging equally across all races, religions, and sexes. The Dems, on the other hand, have shown themselves to be elitists. This last election should have shown you that. Rich and famous people…the elites…out to help Kamala get elected, no actual policies to present, not really even seeing a need to present policies, not doing press conferences or unscripted interviews because it apparently doesn’t really matter what the people want. Dems win another point towards Fascism.

Subordination of Individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race. Again, Trump is pushing for smaller government and for more state’s power over government to push the power closer to the people. He’s trying to lift restrictions on people, shrink taxes, etc. The Dems on the other hand are pushing for more taxes, more power, more control all in the name of the “good of the nation”. Even when there is total outrage over their policies, they refuse to change. Dems win another point towards Fascism.

Strong regimentation of society and the economy. Trump wants to break the back of the regulations. He wants to boost the economy by making more jobs available in the US, by making more people able to start business (entrepreneurship), and to let the market control the prices. He does want to “control the economy” in that he wants to do away with all the policies and regulations that currently are strangling it. Look at the idea of no tax on tips or no tax on social security payments for seniors as a perfect example that takes him out of the running towards Fascism. The Dems don’t want these things. Kamala was even saying she wanted to do price control on goods and services “to stop price gouging”. Price control is a perfect example of strong regimentation of society and the economy. It also clicks a box under the subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation. Dems win another point.

That means we have 5 of 6 traits of Fascism fall under Democrats, none under Trump, with one undecided. The only other part that might play in is the “right wing” aspect. That has been debated a number of times. I would give that one towards Trump since he is conservative. But let’s be honest: all the rest point towards tyrannical rule. That is where the Dems live and where Trump is trying to move the country away from.

LOL @seawulf575 I was just responding to @Blackwater_Park‘s statement that none of us know what fascism is, so I looked it up and linked it. I didn’t say or imply or in any way hint at trump, republicans, or democrats.

@smudges People are throwing the term around too casually and carelessly. That’s dangerous IMO. Real fascism is a nightmare, we are nowhere near it. We have embraced populism and if people are not satisfied, they’ll vote out the leaders. We can and will still do that. Huge difference.

The best part is gonna be seeing the actual real, good people, realize they’re not gonna put up with this and bury these nazis in the ground.

@Blackwater_Park America is not a fascist state and not many Americans who know what fascism is would want it to be, but we have taken steps in that direction with possibly more such steps to come and I for one find that worrying.

@Blackwater_Park This whole back and forth came about because you said “I don’t think any here really knows what fascism is or what it is like to live under true fascism.”

That was offensive to me because I don’t like being told what I do or don’t believe or know. So I linked a definition of fascism to make sure everyone was on the same page. Whether you intended it or not, it was insulting to all, whether they took offense or not. Maybe try not to generalize. A lot of generalization goes on on this forum.

@smudges Not sure why you took offense personally when it was others here casually throwing it around. Never heard you say it. When people say Trump is fascist you have to think, ok, do you really know what that even means?
@flutherother I get that but we are not in fascism or anywhere near it. Populism is dangerous but, it’s not fascism.

^^ We’re good. ☮︎

The dismantling of the Department of Eduction is by the far the most exciting part. And uneducated populace will help usher in the golden age of America. ~

@raum The DoEd is in place and has been for decades now. And our populace has gotten dumber by they year. I’d say they are failing. Continuing with them the way they and believing they are going to suddenly make things great is folly.

The US ranking in education depends on what you look at.

Here the US is number 1: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country

If you google a lot, you will see the big criticism of the US is our kids are behind other countries in math and science.

I can’t find information comparing public schools to private in the US for science aptitude only primary school, which means almost nothing in my opinion. Maybe someone else can find it.

Of course private schools do better in most categories, they have a selective student population.

Yes, but the devil is in the details.

Here are some articles about Baltimore public school performance:

https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/at-13-baltimore-city-high-schools-zero-students-tested-proficient-on-2023-state-math-exam

To be fair that was in Sept 2023. It was an improvement over Feb 2023

https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/state-test-results-23-baltimore-schools-have-zero-students-proficient-in-math-jovani-patterson-maryland-comprehensive-assessment-program-maryland-governor-wes-moore

And this is from 2024, looking at all MCAP results for the area:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/2024/08/28/search-mcap-data/

It is a pretty dismal outlook.

I saw a documentary a few years ago about the Baltimore public schools. What a nightmare. The kids don’t go to school, and when they do go to school they cut class and fight in the hallways. The school administration tries to go out and knock on doors to find out why the kids aren’t in school. On Parents’ Night, about three or four parents would show up to the school, and they showed the teachers sitting at their desks, waiting. The Principal had a meeting and was yelling at the teachers about the kids’ performance and the teachers end up leaving, because it’s so hopeless for them. I was just looking for the documentary online but I can’t find it. If i find it, I’ll link it. I think it was probably on PBS.

Math and science education in k-12 is a joke in America.

Math and science in the US might not be stellar across the country, but plenty of schools are great, and so with 330million people we still produce amazing scientists and engineers. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be better, I’m only saying as a pure numbers game we still produce a lot of great STEM young men and women.

The three highest rated educational states are Massachusetts, Connecticut and Maryland; all three are Deep blue Democratic states.

I “thumbed” through it.
P25 is available in full, and they have a website (of course.)

Last time I was on their site, the focus was on getting Trump elected. Period.
Trump being POTUS, is what P25, is based on.

BOTH parties, come up with things like P25, each election cycle. So, it’s not an anomalous thing.

Obviously, it WAS authored by a few dozen former Trump staffers. (Which makes the link, undeniable.)

It’s a conservative wish list.
The agenda, isn’t new.
The fact someone may try to force it on America, is what all the fuss is about.

Recently Trump said, he’ll use the military to deport illegals.
Once he militarizes the country, it’ll be too late.

The P25 agenda, DOES NOT SERVE AMERICANS, IT SERVES CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVES.

Phrases used by Trump and/or his sheep like “as long as they cooperate,” and “whether they like it or not,” should be VERY telling.

Buckle up. Here we go! Is anybody surprised?
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-11-30/trump-appointees-project-2025

@Caravanfan I’m not particularly surprised he nominated Vought because Vought held the office before when Trump was POTUS. He liked the performance then and felt it would help during this term.

The article you cited makes innuendo that the only reason Trump nominated the people mentioned is because of Project 2025. But there is really no actual evidence to that. Most are people that expertise in areas Trump wants to fill. And forgive me but being a conservative does not automatically disqualify anyone.

@Caravanfan are you saying the orangutan lied again? who could have seen this coming!

Being a conservative, disqualifies people (from public office) in my book.
The simple fact that MTG, was reelected, tells me the type of people voting for conservative leaders…
They WANT antisemitic, batshit crazy, idiots, to represent them.
Case closed…

@MrGrimm888 I disagree. There are plenty of principled good conservatives out there (I consider myself one), but they are being ignored at best and attacked at worst.

@MrGrimm888 Your book is A.I. churned fiction then.

^Call it whatever you want.
Doesn’t change anything…