In the case of the pardon of Hunter Biden, are you more upset about the lie or about the pardon itself?

I don’t have very strong feelings about the issue, but I believe that Biden should have taken the high road and kept his promise. If you’re not going to keep it, why make a promise? and if you do make one, keep it. I’m disappointed.

I am not sure it was a lie. I however think he was wrong in saying what he said and then having a change of heart.
It will forever be a mark on him as a President. Nothing terrible, but will always be in talking points.

Neither. As I said in the other question, this was an invented issue by the republicans to take revenge on democrats and Joe Biden in particular.

Any person in the same position whose name wasn’t Biden – this would have been a non-issue and settled quietly and quickly. Remember that there was a plea bargain (which is normal) for Hunter Biden, which was reneged by the Justice Department for political reasons.

The pardon is absolutely justified because the offense was a total invention.

The 11 year immunity should be upsetting to everyone. Not so much the pardon itself.

People are upset?

It’s a combination as well as the hypocrisy from the left.

Joe Biden repeatedly swore he would not pardon Hunter and that he would support the results of the trial. KJP echoed this repeatedly. The media swore Biden would not pardon Hunter because he is an honorable man…not like Trump. All of these were lies. (Issue #1)

Biden could have waited until the sentencing which was due to happen in a couple days and then commuted the sentence. Then he could have kept his promise and Hunter could have gotten off. So he lied and pardoned him for another reason. (Issue #2)

Biden gave a blanket pardon for any and all crimes Hunter may have committed, whether they were already identified or not for an 11 year period. This 11 year period included the time that was being investigated when Joe was VP and Hunter was working with Burisma and China. This seems to be an extraordinarily broad pardon. If it was discovered he killed someone he wouldn’t be able to be held accountable for it. (Issue #3).

The left (including many on these pages) are once again showing the double standard. They will rant about Trump and how nobody is above the law but then turn around and embrace this pardon without question, making excuses for it even. When Trump exaggerates the size of a crowd, the left goes crazy saying he is lying. Yet here we have Biden lying and it’s all okay to them. That attitude is a lot of what is wrong with this country. (Issue #4)

I agree with @Blackwater_Park. There are serious crimes and Biden got 10% so to many of us, Biden pardoned Hunter to save his self. Shady.

He also said he wasn’t going to run again, so I think we know what a promise from Joseph Robinette Biden is worth…

I am most upset about the lie that anything to do with Hunter Biden is worthy of a serious prosecution, let alone national attention.

I am VASTLY more concerned with the Hitler-like fascist agenda of the MAGA movement, and the fact that MAGA has taken over the Republican party and got them to waste so much of the time and energy of the government, the people, etc, and that they essentially want to take over all the power of the Federal government and want to use it for agendas that serve racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and Vladimir Putin.

And that, is why I don’t really care a fig about “the pardon” – I think it’s entirely justified under the circumstances.

If you’re fishing for criticisms of Joe Biden, one thing I’m greatly upset about, is that he failed to promptly make it clear to even the MAGA part of the nation that MAGA’s Big Lie that the 2020 election was stolen. And while I think Biden carefully avoided any actual “lawfare”, I really wish someone had gone all-out immediately prosecuting everyone associated with and supporting that Big Lie, the insurrection, and the attempts to steal the 2020 election by Trump and other elected officials and cronies. They should all have been in prison or at least out of office by 2022. Now, instead, they’re making plans to burn all record, rewrite history, ignore the Constitution, replace the top military and intelligence leadership with incompetent Trump-loyal saboteurs, start jailing or imprisoning political opponents just for being political opponents, etc etc.

Given that, I’m pretty angry anyone’s trying to distract attention by talking about Hunter Biden, who has always been irrelevant, and a victim of a “go after your political opponent’s family” dirty tactics straight out of a Russian-mafia/KGB playbook.

Please stop being useful idiots to Putin by amplifying this nonsense.

I’m not upset about anything. Pardoning one crackhead pales in comparison to the damage Republicans ignore.

GA @Zaku

Neither. I’m happy he pardoned his son.

I was happy with his initial decision to not pardon Hunter, because I felt like that was the right thing to do at the time. And I don’t feel like he lied, but given particularly Kash Patel being named as in charge of the FBI, who has said numerous times that he is coming after the Biden family, I think it was the right thing to do and I think he was justified in changing his mind. And I’m glad that he did. It’s not a lie if you meant it at the time but then mitigating circumstances caused you to change your decision. You honestly meant to follow through but then had to rethink things.

I’m glad he finally changed his mind. I thought he was making the wrong choice from the very start.

I don’t think it’s a lie. He meant it when he said it.
Shit just went sideways.

He got immunity from anything else going back 11 years. That is any other future charges for things even yet discovered during this timeframe. THAT is unheard of.

Neither, especially seeing the people being picked to oversee the justice department. Things have changed drastically since Biden’s initial statement. It’s all a great distraction from the names popping up for positions who aren’t remotely qualified, so congrats to those who’ve even managed to convince you it’s somehow important. I’m sure the MAGA cheerleaders will disagree but they are just as vapid as the whole furor. Maybe Biden should have appointed Hunter ambassador to France?

Neither. Circumstances changed dramatically for the absolute worst. Rump and his sycophants are out for blood and would have given Hunter Biden a sentence that others in similar circumstances wouldn’t face, simply because he is Joe Biden’s son. I think most parents would do the same thing under these very specific and unique set of circumstances. Biden loves his son.

Rump doesn’t like, love, or have respect for any living human being, except himself.

Neither, but definitely not the lie. As far as I’m concerned Biden was foolish to say he wouldn’t pardon his son, I didn’t even know he had said it until recently. I think he changed his mind, I don’t think he lied.

Hunter went through trial and conviction and maybe would have spent jail time if his dad had been re-elected, but this is the only chance to “shorten” the sentence. I’m not clear if Biden protected Hunter from all further prosecution, is that ever about anything? That would be too far. I assume it’s very specific. If it is only going back 11 years as stated above, I’m ok with it.

Him breaking the “promise” that he would not do it. The crime itself is basically of the “who really gives a shit” category. The pardon however is or at least can be seen as an abuse of power for personal gain.
On the other hand, of course, he probably had a credible fear of the incoming Orangutan regime killing his son, so, eh.

@Kardamom I get you don’t like Trump or the Republicans. No big secret. But the trial has already been held for the crimes for which Hunter has already been charged. The sentencing will be done before Trump takes office. Trump has nothing to do with this unless they dig more into the corruption that was VP Biden. At that point Hunter could come up with issues, but really, this pardon doesn’t really change that other than shielding Hunter. Now any investigation or trial on those issues can call Hunter to testify and he can’t plead the 5th Amendment.

@seawulf575 The prosecutor was appointed by Trump. I think Hunter did some shitty things, but anyway, if a prosecutor appointed by Biden prosecuted one of Trump’s sons, for sure Republicans would point it out. It’s also a sure bet Trump would pardon his son and most Republicans would be indifferent to it.

It’s a very small issue for me. I don’t really care about it one way or the other except that Biden should be focusing all his powers to ensure protection for Federal lands and resources, appointing judges and getting them approved and working on protections for immigrants and LBGTQ people. Once again, America is losing the forest for the trees. Since the Supreme Court declared Presidential immunity, I wish Biden would use all his powers for good before he MAGA onslaught.

^Great answer

I don’t believe it was a lie when he first said he wouldn’t pardon Hunter, I think, like others here, that he changed his mind.
In light of the election results, he probably figured (as so many of us do) that prosecution and persecution would be dramatically and ridiculously escalated, protecting a vulnerable son from that is a good thing.

I was reading an editorial in the NY Times in the middle of the night, and they were saying that although Biden did what any father would do, try to protect his son, his obligation in this case shouldn’t have been for personal gain (protecting his family) but to the people that he, as President, serves.

There are Democrats who feel it’s bad and Democrats who feel it’s not bad, so it’s not a 50/50 division by party lines.

Funny how everyone else but Trump and his posse are measured by moral standards.

@Forever_Free Fear not, the NY Times doesn’t like Trump by any stretch of the imagination.

Well, as to the NYT editorial, it does not protect the American people to not pardon Hunter, but it indicates compassion and Family Values to pardon him. The fact the there is so much controversy around this indicates that there is a larger agenda at play to distract from more important issues.

^^ Yes.

@JLeslie That same prosecutor offered up the sweetheart plea deal that cleared Hunter of all wrongdoing….ever. Before and after that date. And when he was first asked, he said that he didn’t have complete autonomy, that AG Garland was actually approving everything. When that blew up he suddenly had to change it to say he did have autonomy. Let’s drop the charade that he was working for Trump.

As for Trump pardoning his on kid, I will tell you that if one of his kids was into as much shady shit as Hunter has been, indications that Trump was the “Big Guy” that was getting kickbacks for selling influence, etc. and then Trump pardoned that child for not only things he was found guilty of, but for things that may arise in the future from the time that the child was engaged in all that crap, I’d be screaming foul on that as well. I wouldn’t be talking about how a kindly old man had his son back.

@canidmajor Sure it does. If Biden had pardoned Hunter for just the gun charges and the tax charges, that would be one thing. To retroactively clear him from everything he was doing that was currently being investigated in congress is an entirely different thing. Especially when that stuff showed corruption all the way through Joe Biden and to the whole Biden family. Pardoning Hunter this way is the problem. Prosecuting him protects the American people by showing that sort of corruption is not acceptable. What Biden just did was to say that the two-tiered system of justice is alive and well in this country.

LMAO

{{{eyeroll}}}^^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPwxgml0Q3A

Some people the Orangutan Pardoned:

- Michael Behenna, war criminal
– Conrad M. Black, friend of the Orangutan and his personal biographer
– Matthew Golstey, war criminal
– Clint Lorance, war criminal
– Paul Pogue, tax fraud, got a pardon after his son “donated” 200k to the orangutan’s election campaign
– Michael Flynn, his former national security advisor
– George Papadopoulos, his foreign policy advisor
– Christopher Collins, republican politican and staunch orangutan supporter
– Nicholas Slatten, Paul Slough, Evan Liberty, Dustin Heard, all war criminals
– Alfonso Antonio, friend of Ben Carson, the Orangutan’s secretary of housing and urban development.
– Charles Kushner, father of Jared Kushner, the Orangutan’s son in law.
– Roger Stone, the Orangutan’s campaign advisor
– Paul Manafort, Campaign advisor
– Steve Bannon, Campaign advisor
– Elliot Broidy, major donor to the Orangutan’s election campaign
– Tommaso Buti, one of the Orangutan’s business partners in the 90s.
– Douglas Jemal, friend of Jared Kushner, major donor to the RNC
– Kenneth Kurson, friend of the family, speech writer for the Orangutan, associate of Rudy Giuliani
– Glenn Moss, donor and member of the Orangutan’s golf-club
– Hillel Nahmad, ran an illegal gambling ring in Trump Tower, with links to the Russian mob
– Casey Urlacher, donor to the orangutan and RNC

@ragingloli Thank you for the list. I’m sure trumpers will come up with excuses for every single person on that list.

Fake outrage. Anything to score political points. Nothing “there” but falsehoods.

@ragingloli All presidents pardon people. But let me ask: how many of those on that list are his immediate family? And how many are blanket pardons for everything they did in an 11 year period, whether they were charged with crimes or not?

Trying to deflect to Trump just shows you know how crooked this particular pardon is.

@seawulf575 you’re protesting a bit much on this to the point of unbelievability.

Trump pardoned his son-in-law’s dad (Charles Kushner) from a real estate fraud violation. Son-in-law is a pretty close family member. Then the same Trump just appointed Charles Kushner as an ambassador.

So in your mind, it is OK for republicans to do family-based pardons (and payoffs) but not democrats?

@seawulf575
Prosecuting him protects the American people by showing that sort of corruption is not acceptable.

This is the funniest hypocritical statement to even come out of your mouth. Do you follow this same staunch feeling when it comes to Trump or his family or his clan of cronies?

If you dare try to say it is different, then your statement is completely partisan and blind to the justice needed that you profess.

Crooked pardon after crooked pardon, but pointing that out to shatter the ridiculous claim that the Orangutan, the most corrupt president your “country” has ever had, is a paragon of anti-corruption and the rule of law, is a “deflection”. This guy really is mentally ill.

@ragingloli Which “guy” do you mean? lol

@janbb They_must_ mean the orange guy…we don’t want @ragingloli’s comment to get deleted! ;-)

I’m mad he lied.
But, it’s not like I think about it often.
I have just talked about it here…

I don’t even know what Hunter did.

@elbanditoroso Let’s look at that one. You folks keep wanting to compare Charles Kushner’s pardon with Hunter Biden’s pardon. So let’s do the comparison.

Charles Kushner was convicted of preparing false tax records, intimidating a witness and lying to the FEC. He spent 16 months of a 2 year sentence in federal prison and a halfway program and was released in 2006. In other words, he did the crime and did the time. Trump’s pardon couldn’t have come before 2016, ten years after the sentence was completed. Trump pardoned him for the crimes he committed well after the fact.

Hunter Biden was convicted of 3 gun felonies and tax violations. He spent zero time in jail…not a single day. And Joe didn’t pardon him just for those crimes. He pardoned him for anything he might have done wrong in an 11 year span of time, whether it has been charged or not.

There are glaring differences in the two cases, but I’m sure you will ignore them to cling desperately to a talking point. And honestly your talking point is a whataboutism…a vain attempt to distract from the crap the Dems are pulling. It is what you do.

@Forever_Free I already put your claims to rest earlier in the thread

“As for Trump pardoning his on kid, I will tell you that if one of his kids was into as much shady shit as Hunter has been, indications that Trump was the “Big Guy” that was getting kickbacks for selling influence, etc. and then Trump pardoned that child for not only things he was found guilty of, but for things that may arise in the future from the time that the child was engaged in all that crap, I’d be screaming foul on that as well. I wouldn’t be talking about how a kindly old man had his son back.”

So yeah, I do follow the same staunch feelings about Trump. I don’t support holding someone to the fire for made up shit but I do when it is fact.

But let me throw your own logic back at you. If this was Trump and one of his kids, would you have the same staunch feelings that it is okay and he was just a kindly old man? If you dare try to say it is different, then your statement is completely partisan and blind to the justice needed that you profess. So what is it? Hypocrite or you agree Biden screwed up?

@Dutchess_III 3 gun felonies: making a false statement in the purchase of a firearm, making a false statement related to information required by a federal firearms licensed dealer and possession of a firearm by a person who is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance.

And Tax evasion: Willfully refusing to pay taxes for 4 years, filing false tax returns, subverting the tax burden of his company by withdrawing millions and calling it a business expense, etc. There were 3 felonies and 6 misdemeanor charges.

@seawulf575 Nice diversion. No, you didn’t put any of my claims or comments to rest.

What I find sad is that we’re even discussing it. We should be pissed at Hunter first and Biden second. Neither should have done what they did and I find it sad that we just accept that that’s how politicians act, that it’s the status quo. Politicians should be held to a higher standard, not excused for bad behavior.

^^ Amen

@Forever_Free whatever you have to tell yourself. You made a claim about me that was wrong since I had already put it to rest before you even made your comment. But since we are talking about diversion, you just did a nice one. Make an attack on me but completely avoid the challenge I gave you to meet your own standards.

@seawulf575 I see zero attack. Just the facts.

Attack in someone’s vocabulary is . . .not being a member of a right wing fringe group and not believing in conspiracy theory and not being MAGA supporter . . . and not kissing Trump’s ring or and anything else he sticks out !

@Forever_Free Of course you do. The lefties have a hard time with facts and an even harder time admitting they were wrong. But you still avoided the question I tossed back at you. Still diverting. Still avoiding. Go ahead and tell me you’d be okay if this was Trump and one of his kids with a blanket pardon.

I heard today, that Biden could do some type of pre-pardoning, for people he thinks Trump will go after.
This is getting ridiculous.

What a fucking dumpster fire, our government is…