So, what is the deal with people thinking affordable healthcare = free?

That is your countries Republicans , and over priced health insurance fear mongering saying that.

It is affordable if you have an ACA plan / Health Insurance..

Sounds like you don’t have one.

“More affordable.”

@Tropical_Willie

Last year my insurance covered some of my hospital stay and ambulance ride but it was still like $5,000+. So, if that is affordable to you, next time I get a big bill would you be willing to pay it for me? Transfer it to you somehow? lol

Also, I stated that I do have insurance, the hospital accepts it and eventually did, 11.5 months later. The hospital was giving me a hard time and I could have gone back and forth as much as I wanted, it would not have stopped the bills from going to collections if I chose not to pay.

Kind of blown away you think it is affordable even with insurance. They find ways to fuck you over. I have BPD and some insurance won’t cover Axis II personality disorder treatment. If I got an insurance that did not cover it, how do I get the proper treatment?

Don’t they give you shit about pre-existing conditions, like maybe the private ones?

Blue Cross/shield attempted to limit how much they’ll cover someone having to be on anesthesia. How much do you think that costs once they stop covering?

Also, don’t you have to pay some stuff out of pocket before they cover? That I am not sure on but either way, our healthcare is not affordable no matter what so either you have the best company ever or you just have not had a major hospital stay? I am confused on where your line of thinking is coming from.

@Tropical_Willie I love Obamacare but I didn’t find an insurance company with a plan that was the least bit afffordable on a $700 a month income. But I never hooked up with an expert to help me out either. Then Medicare hit so I’m ok.

Insurance for all is just like any other insurance. Each person pays so much and it goes into a big pot that they use for payouts. But Republicans seem allergic to it.

@Tropical_Willie Misleading. I have an ACA compliant plan and pay a ton of money out of pocket. As long as Democrats are in denial or ignorant about the cost of insurance and healthcare, the longer we will not get anything done. It is bad enough the Republicans are in fantasy land about it.

I don’t think they’re in denial @JLeslie.
There is something stopping it.

@Dutchess_III Something? Democrats say things like “now millions of people have insurance who didn’t previously.” Also, the talk about not being denied for pre-existing conditions, which is important I agree. They fail to say that it is still a shit system full of thieves. They talk about $35 insulin for diabetics on medicare. That’s nice, what about everyone else being robbed? It all falls so short of really helping Americans. If Democrats really cared they would be in the media every day exposing rampant gouging that happens in healthcare. Example after example and the millions being made by insurance companies and corporate medical care so it couldn’t be ignored.

People DO have insurance who couldn’t afford it before. I know some of them.

Because why not free? Why should healthcare be allocated on the basis of markets and prices, which inevitably leads to profiteering, regulatory capture, and lobbying.

You can allocate healthcare on the basis of need, as is done in saner systems.

It works like this: you fall ill, or get in an accident. and the doctors and nurses will treat you without asking for money.

The general costs are met by a government that has no revenue constraints (because governments aren’t households), and can fund healthcare to make sure it meets the capacity and needs of society in general. You can reduce demand on the healthcare system with initiatives to support better general health, and regulate the food industry, among many other things which aren’t done in the US, because ill-health and health insecurity are profitable.

I agree. Why is every other developed nation able to provide it and we can’t?

@Dutchess_III Sure, I know. So what?! There are also people who donn’t who had it before. The people who do, many of them get huge subsidies from the government to the health insurance is cheap for them, but then other people are paying HUGE premiums and the government (tax dollars) are paying huge premiums, because of the gouging in the system.

Edit: Let me understand. You couldn’t afford health insurance through ACA, but you’re arguing with me?

Let’s not argue :(

I mean, I agree. Why not free? But I am moreso wondering why no compromise. Instead of dismissing free healthcare because of taxes, we come up with a compromise of more affordable healthcare?

But when you suggest that, they automatically assume you mean free.

Baby steps. Start with it being more affordable and once people realize that we do not need to go in debt from one hospital visit, go from there.

@SergeantQueen “free” will bankrupt the United States of America if they don’t reign in costs and profit.

If any claim was denied, you need to appeal it and the hospital may have to recode it.

Sometimes it’s initially denied, or part is denied, while it goes through the claims process. Then in a month or two, it will be all paid and you’ll get an EOB (Explanation of Benefits) that says what was paid.

I have a person from my insurance company who I call if I have a problem and I’ve had doctor’s offices tell me they don’t take my insurance, and the lady from my insurance company calls them and shows them the computer screen that shows that they do take my insurance. Sometimes it’s just that the billing people are incorrect or they don’t know something.

About 15 years ago, I was in the hospital, through the ER (went to ER and then was admitted). When I got out of the hospital, I received a big bill from the ER doctor’s office. I called and said it’s covered under my insurance and they said no, they don’t take that insurance. My friend, who is a nurse and who also has the same insurance, told me if you go to the hospital through the ER, the doctor has to take whatever insurance you have, that’s what he signs up for when he works at the ER (she also was an ER nurse so she knows these things). She called his office on my behalf and argued with them and said you have to take her insurance, because she went through the ER, and sure enough, it was fine. They rebilled it and it was paid.

Actually I was talking to @Tropical_Willie JL. Not you.

@jca2 That patients have to deal with being billed incorrectly and having to argue is horrible. The stress on patients is immoral. It’s abusive.

@Jleslie dems aren’t in denial. From Obama on down they keep saying it needs improvement and welcome anyone who can but Republicans don’t want to improve it. It did give coverage to many who didn’t have insurance before buy making it illegal for insurances to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, but insurance companies are clever at manipulating the rules. Like the CEO who just got killed for denying coverage. If you get in a car accident and you are unconscious the ambulance will take you to the nearest hospital that may not be in your network and they can deny the claim. As mentioned above they decide how long to pay your anesthesiologist for surgery. You are shit out of luck if your surgery took 2 hours and not 1. Bad enough people are being sent home early after surgery when they may need more time to recover. All you got to do is poop and your fine to go home.

Actually @Pandora…I read today that they dropped that anesthesia bs like a hot potato!

The government, should protect it’s citizens from such vultures.
The US government, has a LOT of clout.
If they say made health-care free, and the government paid the pharmaceutical and medical costs, the government could crack down on what they would be willing to pay for things.

Insurance of all kinds, are fucking scams really. That’s the problem.

But it’s not free. It’s paid for with our taxes…like schools etc

USA is a mess. And about to get messier

A couple comments after reading what everybody else wrote. Right now, under the ACA, you cannot be denied because of pre-existing conditions. As a person who has multiple pre-existing conditions, I am scared of what will happen if that goes away. If I lose my health insurance, I won’t be able to afford treatment or medication at all!

My state is one that has extended Medicaid and because I’m on a limited income, I have Medicaid. And it pays for all my doctor’s visits, any tests, any blood work, and when I was in the hospital for 11 days this past spring, I didn’t have to pay anything out of pocket. I think I have to pay somewhere between 50 cents to a dollar for my medications, and my insulin is $3, but that’s really next to nothing. But I realize most states don’t have the extended Medicaid where you can get it if your income is low. Usually you have to be of a certain age and have low income.

Dutch. It’s not free. Correct.
But if the US government, was the only consumer for Healthcare, the companies would have to accept whatever the US government would be willing to pay. And the government, unlike us, could make the pharmaceutical companies justify their costs. Most certainly leading it to be less expensive. The pharmaceutical companies, would definitely take a hit.
I feel REALLY bad, about that…

We are a wealthy country.
It’s obvious that our tax dollars, pay for a LOT of foreign aid to other nations mainly to maintain influence over global affairs.
If we dialed down the war machine, we would all have money for health care, schools, and infrastructure.

One of the few things I agree with Trump on, is that we need to reign in our military.
There are places we are needed, and then there are others where we are just there. The latter, we can do without.
Trump may have different reasons, for wanting to pull our guys back, but in some cases it would be sensible.

Honestly. We should probably scrap near future military projects like the NGAD fighters, and F-35s, because those expensive planes, can be replaced by cheaper AND unmanned aircraft.

America wastes dozens of billions of dollars, on military R and D. It’s essentially socialism, for military contracts…

We have PLENTY of money.

LQ. You have realistic concerns.

@MrGrimm888 I know I do. I also have a brother-in-law who is on dialysis and has a number of other health issues and I am very concerned about him as well. But there’s no sense getting too stressed over it before it happens because that would only make my health conditions worse. So I’ll make sure my affairs are at least somewhat in order and then if things go down badly, then I will finalize my affairs and just accept what is. I don’t have any kids to leave money to. I just mainly care about my cats ending up in good homes.

^I’m in a similar boat, until I can fully heal from my liver transplant.
I’ve heard talk of them wanting to cut back on military health care spending too. That’s amazingly gross…
My father may have survived Vietnam, but he has never been the same.
He’s just one of many, obviously.
But what a way to treat our guys…Pathetic.

They’re going to give the money to the wealthy again…
Maybe more than the $2.7 trillion he robbed us of in Trump’s first term…
I mean, it’s difficult not to think Trump will be worse, plus he IS showing signs of mental decline. Soooo. I think Vance has got a great opportunity.

When Trump can’t do an interview without fondling someone, they will have to let him go to pasture…

I had Medicare for a year once. Fantastic insurance @LifeQuestioner

I agree with you @MrGrimm888.

Healthcare has a massive parasite in the USA. It’s corporate health insurance. We won’t have affordable care as long as this is a thing. one thing that can be done that will garner bipartisan support is to crack down on this B.S. of having to constantly fight for the benefits you’re paying for. Maybe it takes more healthcare CEOs being shot.

@Pandora Plenty of Democrats only focus on the good the ACA did, and there is some good, and are completely ignorant or have selective amnesia about what still needs improvement and change. What have the Democrats done about it the last few years while in power? Look at @Tropical_Willie‘s naiveté about the ACA, as if the ACA compliant insurance would result in adequate and inexpensive health costs for the patient. My husband and I pay $1,140 a month for insurance and my deductible is $6,000.

When I had a colonoscopy two years ago they charged me $2,500 more or less (I don’t remember the exact number) through my insurance, that was my cost out of my pocket, a complete shock to me when I walked in for my procedure. I had to just hand over my credit card or leave after doing my prep for the procedure. I was able to after the fact get it reduced after going back and forth with the surgical center and my insurance. 3 months later when I needed a sigmoidoscopy as a follow up I paid self pay $700 instead of almost double going through my insurance, but because it was self pay it does not count towards my deductible. My husband did his MRI self pay, because it was cheaper, so that did not go towards our deductible. It is a racket.

A despicable part of it is my colonoscopies are done because I have had polyps since my early 30’s and colon cancer in my family. If my husband goes for his preventative colonoscopy every ten years it is fully covered under the ACA rules, but to prevent me from getting cancer, which I have an extremely high risk of developing, mine is not covered. So, in other words, they would rather pay for my cancer treatment than prevent my cancer. What financial sense does that make? Remember your tax dollars are helping to pay for the idiocy. Your tax dollars don’t pay for my health care, but your dollars are paying for all of the people with subsidized premiums.

Sure, some Democrats know there are still problems to be fixed with ACA and healthcare, and many of us want truly socialized care or some sort of coverage for all, but the messaging from the left generally is what a wonderful thing the ACA is without the full picture.

The US has for profit healthcare. I’d much rather healthcare be free but so many here don’t seem to mind being as unhealthy as possible, I don’t think it’s feasible.

@JLeslie Plenty know it can be improved but they need Republicans to okay any changes for the better. Republicans don’t want it to succeed so Democrats know it’s just a waste of time. They need them on board. We changed laws governing how insurance should work and insurance companies lawyers quickly found ways around that. That’s why they were okay with Obamacare, or a Affordable health care act.
It’s why the best thing would be national health care. That would limit health costs and keep greedy insurances from taking money from people and blocking payments.
BTW, often people don’t realize there are different tiers of insurance. For instance. My B-I-L has the same health insurance as we do.
He pays less monthly and can see any specialist he wants without needing approval from his insurance. But I’ve seen his medical bills. He has seen any doctor he wants. They don’t have to be in network but he has to meet a 5000 dollar deductable first for the year. Then the insurance will only pay 50 percent of the bill for out of network. He pays what is left on the bill.
Our insurance pays a little more but no 5k deductable for the year. And we only pay 35 co pay. Of course they pay well for in network but we need approval for specialist and they will sometimes send us 2 hours away for a doctor in network. Even if there is one in network close by.
Our emergency bills are usually covered but we always used the hospital closest to us. So I don’t know what will happen if its away from where we live.
But my point is insurances have different tiers and that is why the ACA or Obamacare will never resolve those issues.
*Just saw what @KNOWITALL wrote above. Same point.

Trump and the Repugs stopped the requirement for all people to be in the ACA pool (first term for Trump).

Next year Trump and cronies will try to end ACA . . .good luck @all !

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/11/21/nx-s1-5198483/trump-republicans-obamacare-aca-medicaid

No ACA at all ! ! !

Don’t get me started on insurance companies. Insurance corporations, healthcare corporations, pharmaceutical corporations, medical transportation corporations…They are all corporations! The first responsibility of any corporation, unless it is a designated not-for-profit, is to provide the maximum return to the investors, aka shareholders. CEO’s and other executives who can enable this are typically extremely well rewarded.

So, if there is an insurance corporation which experiences a conflict between covering certain events and making a profit, they are required by charter to make a profit. If there is a healthcare corporation (hospital) which experiences a similar conflict, there is no conflict. That corporation is required by law and by charter to maximize return on investment.

This, IMHO, is the reason that the US healthcare system, one of the best in the world, is beset with access problems.

The US’s second and third biggest tax expenses are health care and Medicaid (soical services is 1 and military is 4 – let that sink in). The US government spends twice as much on providing healthcare as any European country. And yet you still need insurance, medical bills is the number one cause of bankruptcy and nearly 50 % dont have access to healthcare.

So the question is what are they spending all that money on? And why the fuck doesnt the average American care?

We DO care @Lightlyseared.