So, what is the deal with people thinking affordable healthcare = free?

That is your countries Republicans , and over priced health insurance fear mongering saying that.

It is affordable if you have an ACA plan / Health Insurance..

Sounds like you don’t have one.

“More affordable.”

@Tropical_Willie

Last year my insurance covered some of my hospital stay and ambulance ride but it was still like $5,000+. So, if that is affordable to you, next time I get a big bill would you be willing to pay it for me? Transfer it to you somehow? lol

Also, I stated that I do have insurance, the hospital accepts it and eventually did, 11.5 months later. The hospital was giving me a hard time and I could have gone back and forth as much as I wanted, it would not have stopped the bills from going to collections if I chose not to pay.

Kind of blown away you think it is affordable even with insurance. They find ways to fuck you over. I have BPD and some insurance won’t cover Axis II personality disorder treatment. If I got an insurance that did not cover it, how do I get the proper treatment?

Don’t they give you shit about pre-existing conditions, like maybe the private ones?

Blue Cross/shield attempted to limit how much they’ll cover someone having to be on anesthesia. How much do you think that costs once they stop covering?

Also, don’t you have to pay some stuff out of pocket before they cover? That I am not sure on but either way, our healthcare is not affordable no matter what so either you have the best company ever or you just have not had a major hospital stay? I am confused on where your line of thinking is coming from.

@Tropical_Willie I love Obamacare but I didn’t find an insurance company with a plan that was the least bit afffordable on a $700 a month income. But I never hooked up with an expert to help me out either. Then Medicare hit so I’m ok.

Insurance for all is just like any other insurance. Each person pays so much and it goes into a big pot that they use for payouts. But Republicans seem allergic to it.

@Tropical_Willie Misleading. I have an ACA compliant plan and pay a ton of money out of pocket. As long as Democrats are in denial or ignorant about the cost of insurance and healthcare, the longer we will not get anything done. It is bad enough the Republicans are in fantasy land about it.

I don’t think they’re in denial @JLeslie.
There is something stopping it.

@Dutchess_III Something? Democrats say things like “now millions of people have insurance who didn’t previously.” Also, the talk about not being denied for pre-existing conditions, which is important I agree. They fail to say that it is still a shit system full of thieves. They talk about $35 insulin for diabetics on medicare. That’s nice, what about everyone else being robbed? It all falls so short of really helping Americans. If Democrats really cared they would be in the media every day exposing rampant gouging that happens in healthcare. Example after example and the millions being made by insurance companies and corporate medical care so it couldn’t be ignored.

People DO have insurance who couldn’t afford it before. I know some of them.

Because why not free? Why should healthcare be allocated on the basis of markets and prices, which inevitably leads to profiteering, regulatory capture, and lobbying.

You can allocate healthcare on the basis of need, as is done in saner systems.

It works like this: you fall ill, or get in an accident. and the doctors and nurses will treat you without asking for money.

The general costs are met by a government that has no revenue constraints (because governments aren’t households), and can fund healthcare to make sure it meets the capacity and needs of society in general. You can reduce demand on the healthcare system with initiatives to support better general health, and regulate the food industry, among many other things which aren’t done in the US, because ill-health and health insecurity are profitable.

I agree. Why is every other developed nation able to provide it and we can’t?

@Dutchess_III Sure, I know. So what?! There are also people who donn’t who had it before. The people who do, many of them get huge subsidies from the government to the health insurance is cheap for them, but then other people are paying HUGE premiums and the government (tax dollars) are paying huge premiums, because of the gouging in the system.

Edit: Let me understand. You couldn’t afford health insurance through ACA, but you’re arguing with me?

Let’s not argue :(

I mean, I agree. Why not free? But I am moreso wondering why no compromise. Instead of dismissing free healthcare because of taxes, we come up with a compromise of more affordable healthcare?

But when you suggest that, they automatically assume you mean free.

Baby steps. Start with it being more affordable and once people realize that we do not need to go in debt from one hospital visit, go from there.

@SergeantQueen “free” will bankrupt the United States of America if they don’t reign in costs and profit.

If any claim was denied, you need to appeal it and the hospital may have to recode it.

Sometimes it’s initially denied, or part is denied, while it goes through the claims process. Then in a month or two, it will be all paid and you’ll get an EOB (Explanation of Benefits) that says what was paid.

I have a person from my insurance company who I call if I have a problem and I’ve had doctor’s offices tell me they don’t take my insurance, and the lady from my insurance company calls them and shows them the computer screen that shows that they do take my insurance. Sometimes it’s just that the billing people are incorrect or they don’t know something.

About 15 years ago, I was in the hospital, through the ER (went to ER and then was admitted). When I got out of the hospital, I received a big bill from the ER doctor’s office. I called and said it’s covered under my insurance and they said no, they don’t take that insurance. My friend, who is a nurse and who also has the same insurance, told me if you go to the hospital through the ER, the doctor has to take whatever insurance you have, that’s what he signs up for when he works at the ER (she also was an ER nurse so she knows these things). She called his office on my behalf and argued with them and said you have to take her insurance, because she went through the ER, and sure enough, it was fine. They rebilled it and it was paid.

Actually I was talking to @Tropical_Willie JL. Not you.

@jca2 That patients have to deal with being billed incorrectly and having to argue is horrible. The stress on patients is immoral. It’s abusive.

@Jleslie dems aren’t in denial. From Obama on down they keep saying it needs improvement and welcome anyone who can but Republicans don’t want to improve it. It did give coverage to many who didn’t have insurance before buy making it illegal for insurances to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, but insurance companies are clever at manipulating the rules. Like the CEO who just got killed for denying coverage. If you get in a car accident and you are unconscious the ambulance will take you to the nearest hospital that may not be in your network and they can deny the claim. As mentioned above they decide how long to pay your anesthesiologist for surgery. You are shit out of luck if your surgery took 2 hours and not 1. Bad enough people are being sent home early after surgery when they may need more time to recover. All you got to do is poop and your fine to go home.

Actually @Pandora…I read today that they dropped that anesthesia bs like a hot potato!

The government, should protect it’s citizens from such vultures.
The US government, has a LOT of clout.
If they say made health-care free, and the government paid the pharmaceutical and medical costs, the government could crack down on what they would be willing to pay for things.

Insurance of all kinds, are fucking scams really. That’s the problem.

But it’s not free. It’s paid for with our taxes…like schools etc

USA is a mess. And about to get messier

A couple comments after reading what everybody else wrote. Right now, under the ACA, you cannot be denied because of pre-existing conditions. As a person who has multiple pre-existing conditions, I am scared of what will happen if that goes away. If I lose my health insurance, I won’t be able to afford treatment or medication at all!

My state is one that has extended Medicaid and because I’m on a limited income, I have Medicaid. And it pays for all my doctor’s visits, any tests, any blood work, and when I was in the hospital for 11 days this past spring, I didn’t have to pay anything out of pocket. I think I have to pay somewhere between 50 cents to a dollar for my medications, and my insulin is $3, but that’s really next to nothing. But I realize most states don’t have the extended Medicaid where you can get it if your income is low. Usually you have to be of a certain age and have low income.

Dutch. It’s not free. Correct.
But if the US government, was the only consumer for Healthcare, the companies would have to accept whatever the US government would be willing to pay. And the government, unlike us, could make the pharmaceutical companies justify their costs. Most certainly leading it to be less expensive. The pharmaceutical companies, would definitely take a hit.
I feel REALLY bad, about that…

We are a wealthy country.
It’s obvious that our tax dollars, pay for a LOT of foreign aid to other nations mainly to maintain influence over global affairs.
If we dialed down the war machine, we would all have money for health care, schools, and infrastructure.

One of the few things I agree with Trump on, is that we need to reign in our military.
There are places we are needed, and then there are others where we are just there. The latter, we can do without.
Trump may have different reasons, for wanting to pull our guys back, but in some cases it would be sensible.

Honestly. We should probably scrap near future military projects like the NGAD fighters, and F-35s, because those expensive planes, can be replaced by cheaper AND unmanned aircraft.

America wastes dozens of billions of dollars, on military R and D. It’s essentially socialism, for military contracts…

We have PLENTY of money.

LQ. You have realistic concerns.

@MrGrimm888 I know I do. I also have a brother-in-law who is on dialysis and has a number of other health issues and I am very concerned about him as well. But there’s no sense getting too stressed over it before it happens because that would only make my health conditions worse. So I’ll make sure my affairs are at least somewhat in order and then if things go down badly, then I will finalize my affairs and just accept what is. I don’t have any kids to leave money to. I just mainly care about my cats ending up in good homes.

^I’m in a similar boat, until I can fully heal from my liver transplant.
I’ve heard talk of them wanting to cut back on military health care spending too. That’s amazingly gross…
My father may have survived Vietnam, but he has never been the same.
He’s just one of many, obviously.
But what a way to treat our guys…Pathetic.

They’re going to give the money to the wealthy again…
Maybe more than the $2.7 trillion he robbed us of in Trump’s first term…
I mean, it’s difficult not to think Trump will be worse, plus he IS showing signs of mental decline. Soooo. I think Vance has got a great opportunity.

When Trump can’t do an interview without fondling someone, they will have to let him go to pasture…

I had Medicare for a year once. Fantastic insurance @LifeQuestioner

I agree with you @MrGrimm888.

Healthcare has a massive parasite in the USA. It’s corporate health insurance. We won’t have affordable care as long as this is a thing. one thing that can be done that will garner bipartisan support is to crack down on this B.S. of having to constantly fight for the benefits you’re paying for. Maybe it takes more healthcare CEOs being shot.

@Pandora Plenty of Democrats only focus on the good the ACA did, and there is some good, and are completely ignorant or have selective amnesia about what still needs improvement and change. What have the Democrats done about it the last few years while in power? Look at @Tropical_Willie‘s naiveté about the ACA, as if the ACA compliant insurance would result in adequate and inexpensive health costs for the patient. My husband and I pay $1,140 a month for insurance and my deductible is $6,000.

When I had a colonoscopy two years ago they charged me $2,500 more or less (I don’t remember the exact number) through my insurance, that was my cost out of my pocket, a complete shock to me when I walked in for my procedure. I had to just hand over my credit card or leave after doing my prep for the procedure. I was able to after the fact get it reduced after going back and forth with the surgical center and my insurance. 3 months later when I needed a sigmoidoscopy as a follow up I paid self pay $700 instead of almost double going through my insurance, but because it was self pay it does not count towards my deductible. My husband did his MRI self pay, because it was cheaper, so that did not go towards our deductible. It is a racket.

A despicable part of it is my colonoscopies are done because I have had polyps since my early 30’s and colon cancer in my family. If my husband goes for his preventative colonoscopy every ten years it is fully covered under the ACA rules, but to prevent me from getting cancer, which I have an extremely high risk of developing, mine is not covered. So, in other words, they would rather pay for my cancer treatment than prevent my cancer. What financial sense does that make? Remember your tax dollars are helping to pay for the idiocy. Your tax dollars don’t pay for my health care, but your dollars are paying for all of the people with subsidized premiums.

Sure, some Democrats know there are still problems to be fixed with ACA and healthcare, and many of us want truly socialized care or some sort of coverage for all, but the messaging from the left generally is what a wonderful thing the ACA is without the full picture.

The US has for profit healthcare. I’d much rather healthcare be free but so many here don’t seem to mind being as unhealthy as possible, I don’t think it’s feasible.

@JLeslie Plenty know it can be improved but they need Republicans to okay any changes for the better. Republicans don’t want it to succeed so Democrats know it’s just a waste of time. They need them on board. We changed laws governing how insurance should work and insurance companies lawyers quickly found ways around that. That’s why they were okay with Obamacare, or a Affordable health care act.
It’s why the best thing would be national health care. That would limit health costs and keep greedy insurances from taking money from people and blocking payments.
BTW, often people don’t realize there are different tiers of insurance. For instance. My B-I-L has the same health insurance as we do.
He pays less monthly and can see any specialist he wants without needing approval from his insurance. But I’ve seen his medical bills. He has seen any doctor he wants. They don’t have to be in network but he has to meet a 5000 dollar deductable first for the year. Then the insurance will only pay 50 percent of the bill for out of network. He pays what is left on the bill.
Our insurance pays a little more but no 5k deductable for the year. And we only pay 35 co pay. Of course they pay well for in network but we need approval for specialist and they will sometimes send us 2 hours away for a doctor in network. Even if there is one in network close by.
Our emergency bills are usually covered but we always used the hospital closest to us. So I don’t know what will happen if its away from where we live.
But my point is insurances have different tiers and that is why the ACA or Obamacare will never resolve those issues.
*Just saw what @KNOWITALL wrote above. Same point.

Trump and the Repugs stopped the requirement for all people to be in the ACA pool (first term for Trump).

Next year Trump and cronies will try to end ACA . . .good luck @all !

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/11/21/nx-s1-5198483/trump-republicans-obamacare-aca-medicaid

No ACA at all ! ! !

Don’t get me started on insurance companies. Insurance corporations, healthcare corporations, pharmaceutical corporations, medical transportation corporations…They are all corporations! The first responsibility of any corporation, unless it is a designated not-for-profit, is to provide the maximum return to the investors, aka shareholders. CEO’s and other executives who can enable this are typically extremely well rewarded.

So, if there is an insurance corporation which experiences a conflict between covering certain events and making a profit, they are required by charter to make a profit. If there is a healthcare corporation (hospital) which experiences a similar conflict, there is no conflict. That corporation is required by law and by charter to maximize return on investment.

This, IMHO, is the reason that the US healthcare system, one of the best in the world, is beset with access problems.

The US’s second and third biggest tax expenses are health care and Medicaid (soical services is 1 and military is 4 – let that sink in). The US government spends twice as much on providing healthcare as any European country. And yet you still need insurance, medical bills is the number one cause of bankruptcy and nearly 50 % dont have access to healthcare.

So the question is what are they spending all that money on? And why the fuck doesnt the average American care?

We DO care @Lightlyseared.

@Lightlyseared The USA is subsidizing healthcare in other countries. Other countries have Gov’t that enforces affordable care. We don’t so we pay for everyone else. Mad yet?

People are trying to turn this into a partisan (did I use that right?) issue, which may be why some people do not care, because they are told affordable = free = leftist ideology. But this CEO incident seems to have started something.

1) I have hardly seen anyone really feel bad for the dude
2) people are getting pissed at those turning it into a left vs. right issue
and
3) people are way more pissed off (or at least, finally voicing their anger) at the healthcare system and insurance. Like I said, this kind of started a thing.

So of the average American did not care before, most are now. And in my opinion, the ones that still don’t are either hella rich or believing all the lies.

@SergeantQueen The problem is many people on the right believe the way to fix it is through free market, in other words through competition, and they don’t believe the government should force people to have to pay for medical coverage.

Most people on the left want everyone to have to pay into the system so we all have coverage and spread the cost across everyone.

Ironically, many on the right will also argue for saving babies that will have extreme disabilities and extremely high medical bills and even saving the baby against the will of the parents. They will also argue to keep people alive longer at end of life when the individual might personally want to hasten death. Both scenarios are extremely expensive.

Both Republicans and Democrats want medical care to cost less, it is a matter of how to achieve it.

Going back 15–20 years ago Republicans argued that part of the problem with healthcare costs is the end user has no idea how much services really cost, and so there is no real pressure for costs to go down. People with “good” insurance get services for free or low copays and don’t pay attention to what is actually being paid to the doctors, which means we don’t have people pushing back on medical care pricing. Plus, if you need medical care, it is not easy to shop around, especially if your situation is urgent. Then the US put in the ACA, and it did not fix that costs for medical care, costs keep going up.

If one has any plans of living past 20, then they should very much care about health insurance.
A medical problem, can ruin someone.

I had a DVT, in my leg when I was like 22 years old. I had no insurance, but I was able to secure a financial aid assistance program for the treatment. As a blood clot, can be life threatening.

I spent over a week in the hospital, and had a follow-up of labs and stuff, for 6 months afterwards.
At 22 years old, I got a bill for over $80,000. THAT fucked my entire financial future up.

I know a sadly decent amount of people, who’s life was essentially ruined because of a medical issue that just “happened.”...

@MrGrimm888 Did the bill get reduced in the end? My $30,000 hospital bill became more like $6,000 in the end, and I was on the cardiac floor, and I assume you were too. What a total sham.

Even $6k or $12k would put a young adult behind the eight ball financially. Once in a financial hole it’s almost impossible to ever get ahead. The problem with the $80k bill for your care is even if you had insurance that paid 100%, the point is the bill shouldn’t be that high period. If insurance pays that means everyone in that insurance plan is paying for the gouging price. I consider it gouging, because it’s taking advantage of a natural disaster, a medical crisis.

Just curious, were you on a high protein diet at the time? I might be wrong, but I remember you as describing yourself as very muscular; I might be confusing you with another jelly.

@Lightlyseared Don’t forget that people file for bankruptcy so they get out of paying their bills.

@Blackwater_Park You could argue that but only if you accept a medical insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies need to make 6 billion in profits a year. Don’t be so stupid as to think they are spending that money on research and development of new treatments.

@JLeslie Of course people file for bankruptcy so they get out of paying their bills. But if youre suggesting they do that intentionaly to get out of paying a bill they can afford to pay then no, bankruptcy is the more expensive option.

Bankruptcy was heartbreaking for me. I’d spontaneously burst into tears for several months afterwards. I did keep my house and cars. I was able to continue making the payments. Almost lost that a few times tho. Sigh.
Being not wealthy isn’t fun.

@Lightlysealed I’m saying when others don’t pay, the rest of society pays or the medical facility writes it off. It’s a vicious cycle of charging outrageous prices, some people don’t pay and others pay too much. More reasonable prices across the board could mean more people could be paying for their own treatment. I don’t mind paying more into the system than someone who is low income to help support their healthcare, but it’s so out of whack how it is now.

I do think some people take “advantage” of filing for bankruptcy, but I don’t doubt that for most people who do it, it is a very difficult decision for them and feels terrible and stressful.

I friend had a baby at a hospital and her insurance was billed for x amount of dollars. She then had another baby at the same hospital, and they billed for a totally different amount of dollars. She’s a nurse at the ER of the same hospital, so she’s pretty savvy and also concerned about charges and why things are billed the way they are. She called the hospital and asked why was it this amount for this baby and that amount for that baby, and the hospital said it’s because your insurance paid x amount for this baby and since she had different insurance for the second baby, they billed whatever the insurance would give them. It’s kind of not logical. They should have one set price and just bill that amount, not bill the max allowed by each insurance.

Right jca2? Another argument for universal health care.

@Dutchess_III As long as your idiot country keep electing the Republicans you will never see it happen..
But don’t worry Trump is moving quick to extend the huge tax cuts he gave the wealthy in his first term, and that only added 4 trillion to your countries deficit, this new extension will add 9 trillion but that is ok because it’s for the wealthy , but universal health care that is not I will use a word they love sustainable .

JL I had to apply for some program that would I guess cover the bulk of the cost, and I had to be approved. It was a VERY stressful situation, because I just had this bad pain, that wouldn’t go away, and when I finally sought medical advice, I was told I could die.
BUT. Despite the severity of the blood clot, they wouldn’t admit me. So it took a few days, to get that program for poor people approved so they would treat me. A vascular surgeon, asked me to leave his practice, once I told him I was uninsured…

There were LOTS of bills, from everything, the $80k +, was just the largest bill, from the hospital itself. There were probably a dozen other thousand dollars owed here, 500 there, etc…

You’re correct, I used to be a gym rat, and was very muscle bound. At that time, I had just left a thing I was doing with law enforcement, where I had to look thinner and less healthy…
I was in the process of putting on muscle, but I never took anything like extra. I’ve considered it now, as the rebuild from my liver transplant has been a lot harder than I thought.

We ran all of the tests, for cardiac issues, and possible diseases, but there was never a doctor who understood why I got a DVT so young, and with no other maladies.

Part of the thing I was involved with, involved observing places for long periods of time on occasion, and it has been hypothesized that the way I used to sit on my knees with my feet under me for long spells had caused it.

I saw a guy at a party years ago, and he had a lot of scars on his leg. As I have been through a complete knee reconstruction from when I tore all the ligaments in my right knee playing football, I often ask people about their story.

This guy told me he was playing QB in a high-school football game, when he got his knee super hyper-extended and woke up in a hospital.
He told me he had had multiple surgeries on the knee, and he too was hit with a bill. He was 15 years old, when he racked up his first million dollar operation.

He went on to say, unsurprisingly, it completely changed his life for the worse.
He became an alcoholic, and I believe he is passed away now.
Who knows what would have happened with him, if he wasn’t in the hole $4.5 million when he turned 16…..

It was only my mother’s heroics, and financial stability, that got me insured after my liver failure diagnosis.
As I had no insurance, I was given 4–6 days to live, and they were discussing the two choices I had; 1. Die in the hospital.
2. Die somewhere else.

I wasn’t even aware they could have potentially saved me. No insurance, no treatment…Certainly no transplant.
I had insurance as I had gone back to my LEO job, when I tore my knee up. Or they wouldn’t have even done an MRI.
I remember the bill, for just the MRI, was over $5k.

Yes. It’s a fucking pathetic “situation normal,” that everything is SO expensive.

And double yes. Insurance companies often explain raised rates for healthy people, to cover people like me…

That’s why I said that the government should take it over, and the pharmaceutical companies can fight with the US, about how much things cost.
I GUARANTEE, if America got MY bills, they would make someone justify the cost.
Likely, medical companies would simply HAVE to take whatever the US is willing to pay for them…
I know it’s more complicated than that, but the US government SHOULD push these pharmaceutical companies around. It would prevent stories, like mine…

@MrGrimm888 I’m all for socialized medicine, but the US need to beef up regulation if we do it. You might remember I grew up in military care, which is basically socialized care. It was so much better than private care. The military also enforces active duty not go above a certain weight, and generally the service is more proactive in preventative medicine than the private sector.

I don’t have a problem being part of the contribution to health care to save your life, both the DVT and the liver transplant. Any of us can have a medical problem at any time. I have a problem with how much is being charged and the high profits made by the hospital corporations, pharma, and insurance companies.

I asked about your DVT, because I have a genetic factor for clotting and my dad had a DVT in his 60’s. I was just asking for my own health, not to criticize you. For the last 10 years when my husband and I travel long distances I make him stop more often than when we were younger so we stand up and walk around. I also make sure we stay hydrated, and I always take an aspirin. All of this due to my concern about developing a DVT.

^JL, as far as I’m concerned, we’re good. I wasn’t the slightest bit offended by your queries.
If I am upset by something, you’ll know it.
The liver, was a failed suicide attempt, to be fair. As alcohol was my weapon of choice, I was under the impression that someone like me, would NEVER make it to a donor list.

It wasn’t the main problem, but feeling like society would rather I be dead, than treat or cure someone with no insurance, was a contributing factor in my motivation for killing myself…

My father is a veteran, and he gets almost everything done through the VA. I know that VA hospitals don’t have the best reputation, but I’ve always loved the people who worked there.
They take GREAT care, of our aging veterans, usually. A task that is NOT easy. The only issue, is if he has an emergency, we have to try to get him to the VA in downtown Charleston. Otherwise, if he takes an ambulance or goes to a regular ER, it’s like he has no insurance…

The DVT, was scary. I got it, when I actually cared if I lived or died, and it was terrifying.
They told me, if I moved a certain way, it could dislodge the clot, sending it to my brain, lungs, or heart, killing me.
Then. They told me about the poor people program, and that process. In theory, I could have died going around town, trying to jump through all the right hoops. At one point, I did break down and cry, after I was told to leave. It was pretty clear to me, the doctor was not the least morally conflicted. He practically pushed me our of his office, and told his secretary “he’s leaving.”

I don’t want to go off the rails, but I think one of the greatest threats to humanity, is indifference and lack of compassion….

@MrGrimm888 Everyone I know who uses the VA is very happy with the care there. My dad uses both DOD and VA.

I grew up in DOD care obviously, dependents can’t use the VA.

^I was able to get some financial assistance in college, because my father was a vet…

@MrGrimm888 You maybe were given his GI bill money for education. People who serve can use it themselves or give it to a child of theirs.

^It was over 20 years ago. I have long forgotten…