What do you think about the Syrian Druze voicing a desire for their area to be annexed to Israel?

I don’t know what the majority of Druze think, but Druze in Israel have had a better life than Druze in Syria for the last 50 years, so I am not surprised.

The other group in Syria that would like autonomy are the Kurds – but they are split between Iraq, Syria, and Turkey, so they are unlikely to gain independence.

I can see how seeking the shelter of a state that is more stable than what you have been living through is. It’s a tough call, really. You know that you will always be lower caste in Israel, but there is more certainty about the future. Syria has a higher potential than Israel for freedom, peace and tolerance in the coming years, but that depends on many things going just right.

@Smashley Druze in Israel have some pretty high positions, but I would GUESS they could never be prime minister or president, I’m not sure. They would have more freedoms than in most other ME countries. That was partly why they pledged allegiance to Israel back in the 1940’s, the other Arabs had been pretty crappy to them. If you want to use the word caste, they have more equality and opportunity in Israel.

It smells like a pretext for further expansion of Israel’s terrorist state, and the kinds of things American Zionists can tell themselves to make believe that they’re not supporting a morally bankrupt and degenerate society of colonizers expanding their empire, subjugating and cleansing the land of “inferior” people..

Remember that Israel illegally annexed the Golan Heights as a “buffer zone.” Now they’re illegally occupying more Syrian territory as a buffer zone to the buffer zone.

@gorillapaws Of course that would be an expansion, or probably more accurately an occupation. What other times in history has a people asked for a neighboring country to rule or annex them? I’m terrible at world history. I’d be curious to know historical examples snd how it turned out.

I don’t see Israel being able to do it. From what I understand the people leading this topple of the Assad regime are Muslim extremists, is that correct? If true, it’s not like they are going to hand over land or control of parts of Syria.

I do think the Druze are better off under Israeli rule than fanatic religious Muslim rule. The hope in my mind would be for a more secular style government and freedom, equality, and safety for all in Syria.

@JLeslie I have a Druze cap.

@JLeslie People don’t ask to be colonized. That’s a myth colonizers tell themselves to justify exploiting the land, resources and indigenous people. You hear the same thing about slavery. There are people who claim the slaves are better off than if they’d been left in Africa. I’m curious how your argument is substantially different from that perspective?

All people have a fundamental human right to self-determination.

Also I’m curious how they’ve ascertained that the Druze people have made this claim? Was there a referendum? Or is this more propaganda coming from Israel? Also I’d be more interested to hear what the Israeli politicians are saying translated from Hebrew than something released to western audiences in English.

I’m not sure if there are historical examples of people choosing to be colonized, but there are examples of colonizers claiming they want to be colonized:

“The native races of Africa are not only willing but eager to accept the benefits of British rule.”
—Frederick Lugard

“The people of the Philippines are not only willing to accept American sovereignty, but they are eager for it.”
—William Howard Taft

“I do think the Druze are better off under Israeli rule than fanatic religious Muslim rule”

Why? and why do you think those are the only options? Also, why is it possible for someone living in the middle-of-nowheresville Iowa with one jewish grandparent and less genetic connection to Israel than Senator Warren has Cherokee can now buy a house in the Golan Heights on stolen land? Explain how that makes sense or is good for the Druze.

@gorillapaws The Q is about the statements made by some Druze in Syria and I linked a video, it’s not Israelis saying it, I’m not saying it, I’m asking about it.

If I was part of a minority group and had little power and I could live under Israeli occupation or in Israel or under Muslim theocratic rule, I pick Israeli, and so would you, especially if you have a wife and daughters or if you were gay or you like to freely speak out against the government.

Japan and Germany did just fine under US occupation. Occupation isn’t always horrific.

The last 50 years An Arab woman in Israel has more self determination than in Syria. Arabs and Druze in Israel are not slaves.

The Druze aren’t being offered a country, they are a small minority. The speaker in the video is stating his opinion, I don’t think it is some sort of shill created by Israelis, but I guess anything is possible. I said in my original post that I have no idea how widespread the sentiment is among Syrian Druze.

@JLeslie “The Q is about the statements made by some Druze in Syria and I linked a video, it’s not Israelis saying it, I’m not saying it, I’m asking about it.”

You linked to a video of an Indian newscaster quoting from an unnamed article about something that some Druze allegedly said. Which Druze said it? how do we know they actually said it and aren’t being misquoted? and how representative are these particular statements from these individuals of the larger group?

@JLeslie “The Druze aren’t being offered a country, they are a small minority.”

Why are they a small minority in a place they’ve continually occupied for thousands of years?

@JLeslie “Japan and Germany did just fine under US occupation. Occupation isn’t always horrific.”

That’s occupation. We didn’t COLONIZE those places, and if we did, you can bet your ass they wouldn’t be happy about it. The Ryukyuan already have a lot of dislike for the Americans who are present on Okinawa, imagine if I could buy up land in Okinawa and displace Ryukyuans? Imagine that this were occurring such that Americans became the majority of the people living on Okinawa by a 2:1 margin?

“The last 50 years An Arab woman in Israel has more self determination than in Syria.”

How is that something to hold up as a good thing? Being better off than they were under a repressive and brutal regime? That’s the bar? And why was that situation like that? did the US and Israel possibly play a role in creating the conditions in Syria?

Can this hypothetical Arab woman in Israel marry a Gazan man she loves and have him move in with her? Why?

All of these comparisons are basically echos of 18th-19th century logic talking about how much better off the “savages” are under Brittish/Portugese/French/Spanish rule.

@JLeslie “The speaker in the video is stating his opinion, I don’t think it is some sort of shill created by Israelis”

I’m not making this claim (though he could be receiving compensation to do certain stories, I don’t know, Russia does this). What I’m saying is that the source he’s referencing could be from the Israeli press. If the source is Haaretz, I’m more inclined to believe the claims than if it’s something like the Times of Israel.

I like my Druze cap.

@gorillapaws Minute 4:45 starts the video of the Druze person saying it. Again, I am not presuming anything, this could be one lone guy who thinks this way. I certainly don’t think the Druze are savages, and I do not think they need to changed in anyway, or that the Israelis would be some sort of teaching savages to be civilized. Where did you get that from? That is not a thought in my head at all. I am asking in this Q about what the Druze might want.

Why are the Druze a small number? Because when you start with such a small number it takes a long time to become a big number, it is just how population growth works. It is why Jews still aren’t at our numbers from before the Holocaust, they dwindled us down to such small numbers it takes 100 years to make our way back. There are only about 1 million Druze in the world last I looked.

It’s very colorful and has a little mini tassle on the top.

@Caravanfan Sounds really nice. When you wear it do people ask you what it is and what it means?

@JLeslie I never wear it. I had it as a kid and it’s in my kippah drawar.

:) I like that you kept it all of this time.

@JLeslie ” I certainly don’t think the Druze are savages, and I do not think they need to changed in anyway, or that the Israelis would be some sort of teaching savages to be civilized”

Right, but you’re mirroring the same fucked up logic that, say, Arab women are better off as second-class citizens under Israeli rule than they would be fighting for their rights in their own nation. It’s called Colonial Paternalism. Israel is bombing tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Arab women and their kids in order to improve their lives. It’s psychotic.

Oh and Israel is forcing out locals in Syria by cutting off water and electricity and moving in for a land-grab. They also just dropped a fucking earthquake bomb in Syria. And to be perfectly clear, Syria hasn’t attacked Israel. This is an act of aggression on Israel’s part.

@JLeslie “Why are the Druze a small number? Because when you start with such a small number it takes a long time to become a big number, it is just how population growth works.”

Wrong, the Israelis brought people in from all over the planet to live in an area that used to be majority Druze for millennia. There’s an active project to ethically cleanse the territory to create a “Greater Israel.” The Zionists themselves have said it, and they’ve been actively doing it for generations now. It’s baffling to me how people can see the evidence and then pretend it’s not happening or somehow believe Israel is the “good guy” in this story.

@gorillapaws The Israelis are ethnically cleansing the Druze? WTF are you talking about? There are Druze commanders in the Israeli army. The Druze are Israeli citizens. There have been Druze politicians, one was briefly President of Israel during an absence of the president or something along those lines. Druze ambassadors. Druze doctors, Druze in charge of major Israeli hospitals.

The really nice thing about my Druze cap is that it’s big enough that it can stay on my head without a bobby pin.

@gorillapaws Are you suggesting the Druze should have their own ethnostate?

@JLeslie “The Israelis are ethnically cleansing the Druze? WTF are you talking about?”

When colonists flood a colonized area with their own people such that they indigenous inhabitants are no longer a majority in the area, that’s a form of ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing doesn’t have to mean putting everyone on trains to death camps or forced death marches. It can simply be a tool for pushing out the old people over time in favor for your own people.

@JLeslie “There are Druze commanders in the Israeli army. The Druze are Israeli citizens. There have been Druze politicians, one was briefly President of Israel during an absence of the president or something along those lines. Druze ambassadors. Druze doctors, Druze in charge of major Israeli hospitals.”

None of this is relevant to the conversation. There were freed slaves in the antebellum South. Would we use such examples of proof to morally justify slavery?

@JLeslie “Are you suggesting the Druze should have their own ethnostate?”

Possibly their own state, but not an ethostate. Though I’ve explained the difference to you in the past, I can repeat it here. It might make sense to recognize a nation state for the Druze people. I would oppose an ethostate though were laws were codified that only Druze people could live there or that certain laws apply differently to different people, or laws that stated that the land is for the Druze people first and foremost.

Non-Jews in Israel have different rules. They also have statically worse lives by all metrics (unsurprisingly) That’s wrong, and sick and leads to racism, and I believe it’s a prerequisite for a society willing to support something as revolting as genocide. I would oppose such a set of laws in a hypothetical Druze nation, or anywhere else. When you see the Druze advocating for annexation, they describe it as the lesser of two evils. That’s not a recipe for long-term stability and peace.

The only thing I don’t like about my Druze cap is that it doesn’t have beads. I like beads.